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Detroit set to oust Martz (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Frank Costanza's Lawyer
- Start date
mad sweeney
Footballguy
SF better go out and get some WRs then. Not gonna run a Martz offense with Darrell Jackson and Arnaz Battle. Oh, and kiss Gore's value buh bye.
Chad Johnson wants out of Cincy.....
tribecalledjeff
Footballguy
Marshall Faulk did alright under Martz.Kevin Jones was ridiculously under utilized in D-town IMO.
Banger
Footballguy
That was with a QB and two HOF caliber wr's.Marshall Faulk did alright under Martz.Kevin Jones was ridiculously under utilized in D-town IMO.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
As a Seahawks fan, please let Martz land in SF. Hilarity will ensue.
Kevin Jones was ridiculously under utilized in D-town IMO.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
This is no secret. And given what looks to be a scarcity of NFL head coaching openings this season, I wonder where Martz is going to land in 2008, if anywhere. He could sign on as an OC somewhere else, but I would think long and hard about taking him on at this point. His unwillingness to protect his QBs has become an undeniable fact; regardless of what kind of passing stats his teams put up; they often come at a terrible price.
Addai's Adidas
Footballguy
Way to go Lions! Fire the guy that gave you the most wins you have had in years and install yet another offense. So this will be how many offensive systems since Millen took over? Five? How can anyone get comfortable with all that change? And you promote the Wr's coach? A position with tons of talent for the Lions but no production?
Brilliant.
Brilliant.
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fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Wasn't Kevin Jones top 10 for most of the season last year before getting hurt?mad sweeney said:
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Yes, and that was with 4 games of 6 carries or less.Very few teams have the personel to run Martzs offense. The Lions had the WRs but not the o-line, and Kitna is a one read QB.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
The notion that San Francisco is going to bring in YET ANOTHER offensive system is really hard to swallow. That would even further set back Alex Smith's development. They're at a point where they have to decide if Smith can be their franchise QB, and changing the offense from a traditional West Coast offense to Martz' crazed, all-out version of Coryell wouldn't be very smart IMHO.
HellToupee
Footballguy
I agree about changing systems again but if anyone can get Smith to play up to his potential(not sure what his potential is) its Martz
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
tribecalledjeff
Footballguy
True, but more accurately:Jones << Gore << M. FaulkIn a non-ppr league, this move would scare me as a Gore owner. In a ppr league, I'm not that worried.ShaqAttaq said:
Paddy O'Seanessy
Footballguy
This is your argument? He sucks because he had success with good players? Yeah, that Belicheck, he blows, too!
Defenze
Footballguy
These two post are giants in this thread. Very good observations guys. Especially the last post....
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Detroit is dead last in the NFL in team defense, so they are going to make the offensive coordinator the fall guy? That makes sense. /not a Martz fan
What has Belichick accomplished without Tom Brady?What did Bill Walsh accomplish without Joe Montana?
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Couch Potato
Footballguy
You are severely underestimating Battle. Think Furrey 2006-like numbers. He has the best hands and runs the best routes on the team, is entering his prime at 27. Major sleeper alert here folks.mad sweeney said:
Paddy O'Seanessy
Footballguy
That doesn't mean they're going to be able to flourish after installing a new system again. I'm starting to think that Alex Smith is going to have to go the Delhome route -- disappear into back-up status for a few years and break back onto the scene as a FA pickup.
CalBear
Footballguy
It's Detroit.
WiDDoW_MaKeR
Footballguy
I would feel very bad for Frank Gore.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Why? He'd probably have 600-700 yards receiving alone.
MArtz to Buffalo would be my call, I know that sounds funny. But Steve Fairchild was MArtz Assistant AND his QB in Colorodo State.
So there is synergy there.
The other spot Martz would fit great in would be...
St. Louis. But that ain't gonna happen.
One more place he fits great, Cincinnati
So there is synergy there.
The other spot Martz would fit great in would be...
St. Louis. But that ain't gonna happen.
One more place he fits great, Cincinnati
hauser42
Footballguy
If Martz does land in SF I think he will have to WR in D Jack and Battle, I think they also have Ashley Lelie that could run a lot of the stretch routes in the system.
Gore will be a fine player in PPR but in more traditional leagues is value may drop a little bit.
Hate to see him leave since I'm a huge Packer fan. I see the Lions going to more of a traditional offense and running more.
Gore will be a fine player in PPR but in more traditional leagues is value may drop a little bit.
Hate to see him leave since I'm a huge Packer fan. I see the Lions going to more of a traditional offense and running more.
I'd love to see Mike Martz coaching my team. In five full seasons in St. Louis he won three divisional titles, went to the playoffs four times, and went to the Super Bowl once, losing to the team of the decade on a last second field goal. On top of that his teams play an entertaining style of offense. What's not to like?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
The problem with Martz's style is, he doesn't adjust his style based on his personnel. He is going to throw, throw, throw, regardless of how good his offensive line is. It worked well for years in St. Louis because their offensive line was great, but in Detroit, their offensive line hasn't been very good, and Jon Kitna is always thisclose to getting killed. A QB in a Mike Martz system is always going to take a tremendous beating, especially compared to the average NFL QB. Plus, I think it can be argued that the NFL caught up to and figured out Martz's offense to somewhat of a degree. The Rams were practically unstoppable for three years, but after the Patriots beat them in the Super Bowl, they were never unstoppable again, even though the personnel was almost the same for a while.
Balco
Footballguy
I think Martz is a little overrated as well, but I cannot stand this argument. If you are going to knock MArtz because he only had success with great players, than Bill Belicheck, Bill Walsh, and Jimmy Johnson should also be lumped in with him.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
2007 -- 54 sacks through 15 games (worst in the NFL)2006 -- 63 sacks (2nd worst)2005 -- 46 sacks (6th worst)2004 -- 50 sacks (5th worst)2003 -- 43 sacks (4th worst)Martz fails to protect his QB and, in turn, his offensive "wizardry" is arguably among the most overrated aspects of the current coaching annals IMHO. When you watch games with his teams, you just cringe at his absolute refusal to adjust protection schemes even when his QB is getting CRUSHED. It's downright irresponsible and probably infuriates an old school guy like Marinelli in the process.
King of the Wolfies
Footballguy
Martz is being brought in to get Alex Smith killed so that the 9ers can avoid the embarrassment of cutting him.
FavreCo
Footballguy
Um....HELLO!!! Belicheck has won with less talent that the Martz turd. FYI, he BEAT Martz with a lesser team. Belicheck can win without top talent. Martz has proven he CAN'T!!!!. Then even when he is in charge, he blows it.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
When did he do that? And do not say 2001, unless you are calling guys like Ty Law, Tom Brady, Willie McGinest, Mike Vrabel, Tedy Bruschi, Richard Seymour, and Lawyer Milloy slouches.
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FavreCo
Footballguy
You are trying to compare Martz to Bill Walsh? To Belicheck??? Oh my gawd!!!!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Walsh_(football_coach)
Year after year these 2 assembled solid teams. Year after year martz has done...well, nothing but for 1 year with 3 HOF'ers (as an OC). Period. End of story. Martz blows and that's a fact. He cannot adapt to personnel. Obviously a top notch QB generates Super Bowls but Martz blew it when he had the chance because he was too high on his own reak.
Jimmy Johnson...he sucked. A benifactor of the Herschel Walker trade as proven by Switzer who also stood on the sidelines and watched the dominate team win a 3rd SB.
Belicheck and Walsh are (were) great at evaluating talent. Martz has no clue and Johnson knows not to ever step foot on an NFL field as a HC again as he knows he sucked (Miami).
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
They're not firing Marinelli.
Who said anything about changing systems? If they wanted to change systems, they wouldn't promote from within. The system is fine. The playcalling is the problem. They just need a different guy calling plays.
No production??
Shaun McDonald 74-874-5Roy Williams 63-836-5Calvin Johnson 44-702-4Mike Furrey 55-617-1Receivers aren't the problem here.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I was not directly comparing Martz to Walsh or Belichick. I was just using the latter two as an examples that it is often unfair to say that "Coach A never won anything without Players X and Y." You can make a case for most great coaches or managers as having never won anything without superstars. And I agree that Martz blew it in Super Bowl XXXVI. He had the clearly superior team, but got outcoached badly, and that is the main reason why the Rams lost.
FavreCo
Footballguy
Um, he flat outcoached a SUPERIOR team in St.Louis. That's a fact. Once again, Martz blew it because he was outcoached by a lessor team with a 2nd YEAR QB. Brady in 2001 was an average QB.
FavreCo
Footballguy
My point exactly. He's stupid. He called Tatum Bell some sort of superstar. Everyone else knows Tatum Bell sucks.July 31, 2007
Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz heaped praise on Tatum Bell after practice on Monday. “Tatum right now is a different level,” Martz told the Detroit Free Press. “He’s better than I thought he’d be, to be honest with you.
He’s the whole package. Package of what??? He’s got so much juice to him. He can go.” Bell is currently listed as the starter on the Lions depth chart.There are more Martz statements. A lot on Kitna's greatness. Blah blah blah. They guy is a moron.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I agree about the Rams having the superior team, but you said Belichick has won without top talent. Aside from Brady, who was a first year starter then, are you calling the rest of those guys I listed not top talent?Trust me, I would never argue that Martz is the genius that many made him out to be back in the day, but to say that Belichick has won without any top talent is just plain wrong.
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Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I said before the season that with the personnel the Lions had in the secondary, they would probably have the worst pass defense in NFL history. The fact that they're only 31st in pass yards allowed, and actually as high as 24th in yards/attempt, is quite an accomplishment.The fall guy should be the GM responsible for the hideous state of the Detroit secondary (Oooh, let's give Fernando Bryant a big contract!!!), but unfortunately that's not an option.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
just a hunch: Cam Cameron will be the SF offensive coordinator next season.mad sweeney said:
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Agreed.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
If my team had 2 or 3 HoFers and a league MVP at QB to work with I'd be happy too.
