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Dez to Denver (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
twistd
Footballguy
So you launch one problem and then draft another? That doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. Unless the reports of Bryant's problems are overblown. But if the reports are true, and Cleveland and Jacksonville took him off their board because of the reported character problems, then I'd think there is some credibility to them. I bet Denver waits and draft a couple of WRs later. Maybe as early as the second, but I don't think they will draft a receiver in the first. Before Moss came to NE they never had terrific receivers. My guess is that McDaniels believes that it is the system, not the players. I think he believes they don't need top flight WRs to make that system successful.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Doubt it. Probably go with a Thomas, D. Williams, Benn or LaFell with one of the second rounders.
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
Broncos go Dez in the 1st, interior OL in the 2nd, Arrelious Benn in the 2nd.
Double up on the wideouts - Dez = Fitzgerald jr. Benn = BMarsh clone
Double up on the wideouts - Dez = Fitzgerald jr. Benn = BMarsh clone
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
Dez character concerns are overblown.
All the insiders I've talked to say this is just a young/immature kid, but not a bad kid.
Plus, he's a WR! They're just wired differently, and that's why we see so many prima donna's at that position.
Marshall's most recent problems were specific to the team, problems with McDaniels, etc.
All the insiders I've talked to say this is just a young/immature kid, but not a bad kid.
Plus, he's a WR! They're just wired differently, and that's why we see so many prima donna's at that position.
Marshall's most recent problems were specific to the team, problems with McDaniels, etc.
Unwrittenlaw
Footballguy
Denver doesn't have any confidence in Royal? I think they draft a WR in the first two rounds and that's it - maybe a WR in the 4th.It's a good defensive draft and their other needs are LB/DL imo.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
I think Denver goes OL or defense with their first-round pick, even after this trade.
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
I love Royal - great guy, very kind, good in the community.However, over the last 2 years he's shown that he struggles to read coverages and is often making mistakes on jerk routes. They want him to bounce back, will move him to the slot to see if that helps. Gaffney isn't a spring chicken anymore, Kenny McKinley is super quick but injury prone.
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
They revamped their DLine with Bannan, Green, and Jamal Williams. they think it's enough (I would go with Dan Williams or Rolondo McClain in round one). Anything can happen in the draft, but Dez is high on their list.
Cassius
Footballguy
Seems like a great idea, which is why it will not happen.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
My hope is they trade back from 11 and pick up some more picks. I'm not huge on Bryant at 11 especially when they just traded a proven player at the same position. I think they'd be better off getting an interior OL later in the 1st and take a WR with one of their 2nd rounders.
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Unwrittenlaw
Footballguy
I think Briscoe would be a great pick for them in the 4th.
Red Herring
Footballguy
I could see them going OL in the first, then packaging some of those 2nds to get back into the first to get Bryant.
Yellow Line is Unoffcial
Footballguy
Dez won't get past Denver, the question is does someone trade up ahead of the Broncos to pick him.
Will Jax trade back to the mid to late first and take Tebow?
Does Buffalo trade back with so many holes to fill?
Will Jax trade back to the mid to late first and take Tebow?
Does Buffalo trade back with so many holes to fill?
Shutout
Footballguy
Looks like soemthing to make us drool in FF but the real life Broncos need defense, need a center, need a lot of things in the wheelhouse more than they need a WR.
They will add a WR somewhere in the draft but I doubt its Dez. I would think its more likely that trade down to someone wanting to trade up to get him and add picks...they need them.
They will add a WR somewhere in the draft but I doubt its Dez. I would think its more likely that trade down to someone wanting to trade up to get him and add picks...they need them.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
I don't think so. They stocked up on 2nds last year and NE valued 2nds greatly while McD was there. I think they made it a point to get the 2nd rounders and they will keep them imo.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Put me down for:
1st = Dan Williams
2nd (Miami) = WR
2nd (Denver) = LB
1st = Dan Williams
2nd (Miami) = WR
2nd (Denver) = LB
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
oof. I think it would take a Ditka move to do that. Every pick, seriously the Broncos don't have the firepower to move up. Dumervil plus a couple of first-rounders?
ffldrew
Footballguy
I say stay away from Dez Bryant - poor times in the 40, can't finish a cone drill, begs out of the combine, - if you can't be ready to be a professional on the days that will determine your paycheck for the next several years then it says you are more than a head case. The hit miss ratio of 1st Round WR is also going against picking Bryant this high - I say pass and get more Defense.
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
I hope they do that for Broncos fans sake, but I don't think they'll do that.Back to back Crimson Tide would be
1st - Rolondo McClain2nd - Terrence Cody2nd - Arrelious Benn
Buffaloes
Footballguy
I have a hard time believing Cody makes it past San Diego twice in this year's draft and then past Buffalo and KC both of whom could use a young NT. I think Cody is a lock for the 1st round. I'd also be disappointed if the Broncos don't address their interior OL (most notably C) in the 1st 2 rounds. They have next to nothing at the center position with Hochstein coming off a severe knee injury and Dustin Fry.I hope they do that for Broncos fans sake, but I don't think they'll do that.
Back to back Crimson Tide would be
1st - Rolondo McClain
2nd - Terrence Cody
2nd - Arrelious Benn
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Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Dan Williams before the trade.....
Dan Williams after the trade.
Dan Williams after the trade.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
I've been hearing lots of talk here that the 49ers would grab Bryant if he falls. Last year when they took crabtree I jumped for joy and our draft party went bananas with excitement, if the 49ers take Dez I would likely throw my shoe through the TV, please Denver take this guy!
squistion
Footballguy
Dez is coming across as a bit of a Diva (goes with the territory I agree) however Josh has not worked well with such personalities to date (see Cutler, Marshall). If Dez can accept the philosopy of "there are no stars here" he will do fine, but I doubt he can adopt that mindset. He thinks he is special (and rightfully so) and appears the type to expect to be treated that way. However McDaniels has shown an unwillingness to make any such accomodations in the past and is unlikely to start now. I don't see this working out in the long term if the Broncos draft him.
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
I hear you about Cody, San Diego needs a replacement for Jamal Williams. RB/DB could also be the pick at the end of the first.With Center there's really only one prospect worth taking in the first two rounds and that's Maurkice Pouncey. Not only is he the best C in this draft class, some scouts say he's the best C prospect to come along in the last 10 years. #11 is not too high if the Broncos feel that he's a can't miss guy.Buffaloes said:I have a hard time believing Cody makes it past San Diego twice in this year's draft and then past Buffalo and KC both of whom could use a young NT. I think Cody is a lock for the 1st round. I'd also be disappointed if the Broncos don't address their interior OL (most notably C) in the 1st 2 rounds. They have next to nothing at the center position with Hochstein coming off a severe knee injury and Dustin Fry.Cecil Lammey said:I hope they do that for Broncos fans sake, but I don't think they'll do that.ffldrew said:
Back to back Crimson Tide would be
1st - Rolondo McClain
2nd - Terrence Cody
2nd - Arrelious Benn
Matt Tennant, J.D. Walton, Ted Larsen, Jeff Byers, Eric Olsen, etc can all be picked in the third-round or later (Olsen/Byers likely 5th)
Marshall wasn't launched because he was a problem. He was launched because he wasn't a "McDaniels Guy". McDaniels has no problem with problem children (see Moss, Randy).
BRONG
FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY
can someone list what the concerns/off field issues are surrounding Bryant....what were/are they specifically.....?
tia
tia
Wadsworth
Footballguy
That's interesting, because while he might not have any huge red flags, there sure seems to be a lot of little ones. The Pacman thing stands out to me because that was plain bizarre. He certainly is a talented prospect and I don't mind saying I'm not thrilled about him allegedly being off the Jaguars board.
squistion
Footballguy
Yes, but it is arguable that he wasn't a "McDaniels Guy" because he was a problem (he didn't buy into the system concept the prior poster mentioned). I disagree and think that McDaniels has real difficulty working with problem children, the fact he didn't with Moss was because Randy behaved himself while Josh was there and didn't challenge his authority. For that reason, I don't think it is valid to point to Moss as proof that McDaniels can work with Diva personalites (which, to me, he clearly can't as evidenced by Marshall and Cutler).
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
It's certainly possible, but there are some in the scouting community that I've talked to that believe there's no way Tebow makes it into the second-round. There's even some belief that Tebow won't be on the board when Denver selects in the first-round.I think Tebow should be a second-round pick and needs at least 2 years to develop as a pro quarterback.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I'd like to seem them take Byers in a later round, hes one of the only (maybe the only) kids I ever saw play in high school back when I was in school growing up in northern Colorado that has gone pro. It would be kind of neat getting a kid that grew up in the area. I really hope they draft at least one interior lineman with their first 3 picks. I would love to see something like Pouncey then Cody (hopefully he is still there) than one of the second round WRs.I hear you about Cody, San Diego needs a replacement for Jamal Williams. RB/DB could also be the pick at the end of the first.With Center there's really only one prospect worth taking in the first two rounds and that's Maurkice Pouncey. Not only is he the best C in this draft class, some scouts say he's the best C prospect to come along in the last 10 years. #11 is not too high if the Broncos feel that he's a can't miss guy.Buffaloes said:I have a hard time believing Cody makes it past San Diego twice in this year's draft and then past Buffalo and KC both of whom could use a young NT. I think Cody is a lock for the 1st round. I'd also be disappointed if the Broncos don't address their interior OL (most notably C) in the 1st 2 rounds. They have next to nothing at the center position with Hochstein coming off a severe knee injury and Dustin Fry.Cecil Lammey said:I hope they do that for Broncos fans sake, but I don't think they'll do that.ffldrew said:
Back to back Crimson Tide would be
1st - Rolondo McClain
2nd - Terrence Cody
2nd - Arrelious Benn
Matt Tennant, J.D. Walton, Ted Larsen, Jeff Byers, Eric Olsen, etc can all be picked in the third-round or later (Olsen/Byers likely 5th)
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He wasn't. "He's a problem player" is not a reason McDaniels uses to get someone off the team. "He's not following the program" is a reason he uses. That's why he launched Cutler (who was never a problem until McDaniels tried to get rid of him), that's why he benched Scheffler (whose only sin was complaining about his usage... IN PRIVATE) and why Scheffler will soon be launched. It's why he was hugging Brandon Marshall the "problem child" after winning in New England (you know, back when he was fitting in with the program), and it's why he's trading Brandon Marshall right now (after Marshall "malingered" with an injury and stopped "fitting in with the program").The reason why Brandon Marshall is being traded isn't that Brandon Marshall is a headcase. It's that Josh McDaniels wants to surround himself with Josh McDaniels' guys, and he decided that Marshall was no longer one of "his guys".
Not very arguable. Marshall was the biggest freaking problem child I've ever seen last offseason, yet he and McDaniels were still super-super chummy during the middle of the season- hugging in press conferences, saying glowing things about each other and the team, braiding each others' hair before bedtime at their sleepovers, etc. Sure seemed like Brandon Marshall- the pouting diva who batted down balls in practice and jogged during drills- was a "McDaniels Guy" back then. Sure seemed like he bought into the system when he caught 20 passes in a game. McDaniels had no problem keeping him around back when he was merely a problem child... but when McDaniels suspected he was a malingerer, too, Marshall was on the first train out of town. Seriously, Marshall told the media during the preseason last year that he hadn't even bothered learning the playbook yet... and he and McDaniels still got along fine until McDaniels suspected him of overstating an injury late in the year.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Yes, because his body of work in real live college games is much less critical than the all-important cone drill.He's got more ability than any receiver coming out the last two years except perhaps Crabtree and DeSean Jackson. I know it's just my own feeling and there are lots of people on the other side of this, but I think he'll be OK when it comes to the "headcase" issues in the NFL.ffldrew said:
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Couch Potato
Footballguy
Can I come to this year's party? I'm about 5-10 miles away.Multiple Scores said:
Couch Potato
Footballguy
SSOG can go from absolutely genius in one thread to borderline drooling idiot in another. He needs to wipe the drool this time.
To be honest, I'm not so sure it happens. I mean, Denver just traded a WR with character issues. I can't see them drafting a WR who could have just as many character issues as Marshall. The pick makes perfect sense from a positional need point of view, but McDaniels' brain works differently to most human beings. I just hope Denver fans are not left doing this on draft day. 
BRONG
FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY
SSOG can go from absolutely genius in one thread to borderline drooling idiot in another. He needs to wipe the drool this time.
So true. 
Couch Potato
Footballguy
It's been covered ad nauseum why Denver and Marshall no longer wished to coexist. The issues from both sides' points of view were substantial. Whether or not they draft Dez, the "sure thing at WR" part concerning Marshall had become irrelevant.
kremenull
Footballguy
If you are getting rid of Marshall primarily due (allegedly) to character concers, then why then essentially swap him for another guy (Bryant) with character concers who has yet to produce at the NFL level while Marshall has performed at a very high level?
I say the Broncos address another position in Rd 1, likely defense, then go after guys like Benn, Demaryious, or Tate in Rd 2, or other guys like Damian Williams, Andre Roberts, or others later in the draft.
I say the Broncos address another position in Rd 1, likely defense, then go after guys like Benn, Demaryious, or Tate in Rd 2, or other guys like Damian Williams, Andre Roberts, or others later in the draft.
Cassius
Footballguy
1) Because the term "character concerns" is being twisted, expanded, and abused to an incredible extent when it comes to Bryant.2) Because getting rid of Marshall leaves a gaping hole at WR and Bryant is one of the best players in the draft.
Resident A
Footballguy
Doesn't anyone think Denver will go after TO?
It would make perfect sense to get TO in for a year, and draft a WR in the 1st or 2nd.
It would make perfect sense to get TO in for a year, and draft a WR in the 1st or 2nd.
While I'm busy wiping that drool, answer one simple questions for me: If McDaniels moved Marshall for being a headcase THIS OFFSEASON after showing absolutely no interest in doing so LAST OFFSEASON, then Marshall must have done something during or after the season that increased his "headcase quotient", for lack of a better word. In other words, McDaniels must have decided THIS OFFSEASON that Marshall was a headcase and not to be tolerated, while not reaching that decision LAST OFFSEASON. For $10,000, please tell me what incident during the year could have possibly led to McDaniels concluding that Marshall was a bigger problem child than McDaniels originally thought he was. Go ahead and take your time, we've got all offseason.
The truth of the matter is that Brandon Marshall this offseason looks like much less of a problem child than Brandon Marshall last offseason looked. Last offseason, Marshall was criticizing the team, threatening to hold out, refusing to learn the playbook, and making an absolute mockery of practice for the 6 o'clock news. Rumors were even circulating that Shanahan was considering cutting him outright (although those rumors were ridiculous). Since then, Marshall has learned the playbook, learned the system, given 100% effort, and said glowing things about the franchise and said all the right things about wanting to be a part of it. Read through the dynasty thread and you'll see we've been talking all year about how Marshall must have hired the greatest PR firm ever, because he was saying and doing exactly the right thing all year long. And then, despite all of that, McDaniels benches him in week 17 and trades him in the offseason. McDaniels didn't do that because Marshall was a problem child. McDaniels did not jettison Brandon Marshall over character concerns. IF McDaniels wanted to get rid of players who were locker room cancers, he would have traded Brandon Marshall last year, when he was actually a locker room cancer, and not THIS YEAR, when he's been a model citizen.
No, McDaniels is riding Marshall out on a rail for the same reason he's getting rid of Tony Scheffler, a guy with nary a red mark on his entire record. He's doing it because he's decided that neither guy is With The Program.
It's not semantics.Brandon Marshall has a $0.10 head. Brandon Marshall didn't buy into McDaniels' program. Those are two separate and wholly distinct issues. *IF* Denver moved Marshall because he had a $0.10 head, then they wouldn't go after Bryant (who reportedly also has a $0.10 head). *IF* Denver moved Marshall because he didn't buy into McDaniels' program, then that would not preclude them from going after Bryant in the slightest, provided Bryant was willing to buy into McDaniels' program.Basically, there are two possible reasons why Denver might have traded Marshall. If they moved him for reason A, then they absolutely would not draft Dez Bryant under any circumstances. If they moved him for reason B, then they might possibly draft Dez Bryant. Therefore, when discussing whether Denver might go after Bryant, distinguishing between reason A and reason B is hardly a case of semantics- it's kind of the crux of the entire issue. If character concerns were a dealbreaker to McDaniels, Bryant wouldn't be one of the 50 names on his draft board. Luckily, character concerns are not a dealbreaker to McDaniels.The semantics are killing me.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
10-cent head is overly broad, and it isn't fair to Bryant in this case. Marshall has been accused of beating up women, in addition to other stupid things. Bryant hasn't been accused of any crimes. I think there's a big distinction there.SSOG said:It's not semantics.Brandon Marshall has a $0.10 head. Brandon Marshall didn't buy into McDaniels' program. Those are two separate and wholly distinct issues. *IF* Denver moved Marshall because he had a $0.10 head, then they wouldn't go after Bryant (who reportedly also has a $0.10 head). *IF* Denver moved Marshall because he didn't buy into McDaniels' program, then that would not preclude them from going after Bryant in the slightest, provided Bryant was willing to buy into McDaniels' program.Basically, there are two possible reasons why Denver might have traded Marshall. If they moved him for reason A, then they absolutely would not draft Dez Bryant under any circumstances. If they moved him for reason B, then they might possibly draft Dez Bryant. Therefore, when discussing whether Denver might go after Bryant, distinguishing between reason A and reason B is hardly a case of semantics- it's kind of the crux of the entire issue. If character concerns were a dealbreaker to McDaniels, Bryant wouldn't be one of the 50 names on his draft board. Luckily, character concerns are not a dealbreaker to McDaniels.The semantics are killing me.
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