DFS Scandals BEGIN - "INSIDER "TRADING" " (2 Viewers)

[GroveDiesel]

The entire reason fantasy football was allowable was because the factor of time and multiple games upped the "skill" factor involved and supposedly minimized luck. That's why single game wagering is illegal while fantasy sports is not. My guess is legislators quickly step in and deem one week betting to also tilt too heavily towards the luck side of things.

The problem for DFS is that their best argument in favor of it being skill versus luck is that a small number of players win a huge percentage of the games. That demonstrates that it's not just luck. Unfortunately, if they have to make that their argument, they're probably going to lose a bunch of business by admitting that

 

[Abraham]

I'd bet DFS sites don't last to see another NFL season. The owners probably have a ton of cash stored away, so they'll be good. DFS big fish will have to find some other way to make their living gambling. I hear horse racing could use the action.

ESPN put 200 million into one of the two sites (can't remember which). I am 100000% certain they are getting all that back and more before the owners get a penny.

 

[James Daulton]

I'd bet DFS sites don't last to see another NFL season. The owners probably have a ton of cash stored away, so they'll be good. DFS big fish will have to find some other way to make their living gambling. I hear horse racing could use the action.

ESPN put 200 million into one of the two sites (can't remember which). I am 100000% certain they are getting all that back and more before the owners get a penny.

I was thinking more along the lines of the owners have probably been manipulating data and having success on each other's sites.

 

[RUSF18]

I'd bet DFS sites don't last to see another NFL season. The owners probably have a ton of cash stored away, so they'll be good. DFS big fish will have to find some other way to make their living gambling. I hear horse racing could use the action.

ESPN put 200 million into one of the two sites (can't remember which). I am 100000% certain they are getting all that back and more before the owners get a penny.

False. They were going to, but didn't.

 

[lod01]

Some expect the government to take action, marking the end of the multi-billion dollar fantasy sports industry as we know it.

Rooting for this. If I can't play poker on-line, then this form of gambling should not be allowed either. Then these people can hate Sheldon Adelson as much as I do since he stared the ball rolling due to his own greed. It will be a great day when the stuff this old POS 6 feet under.

 

[Ned]

I'm wondering if the horse is out of the barn, so to speak, and we can't turn back (i.e. too big to fail). Maybe something will happen to where we can regulate this and online poker.

:wishfulthinking:

 

[elbowrm]

You have to think there will be huge outflows this week. Whether they have the funds to cover them will be a very interesting question.

 

[joffer]

You have to think there will be huge outflows this week. Whether they have the funds to cover them will be a very interesting question.

id better get my $16.44

 

[[icon]]

Wait... will this mean I won't have to endure 120 DFS ad impressions daily?

SCANDAL! OUTLAW IT!

 

[nirad3]

Question - in a couple of places I have seen people minimize the usage of the ownership stats by saying that they are publicly available on FD for people entered in the thurs. game contests - that ised to be true but is no longer the case, correct?

Actually I was just thinking about this. Me and a buddy were hanging out two Saturdays ago watching the Arizona-UCLA game, talking about FanDuel. He was showing me the app on his phone and we noticed that it was showing him %-owned stats. I fired up my app and I couldn't see this info. We discovered that the info was showing on his app because the games had already started (he had joined a Thursday-Monday contest) while my app was not showing it (I was Sunday-Monday only).

I guess one could join a few Thursday-Monday contests, get a feel of early %-owned and make lineup decisions for Sunday-Monday games based on that information. In fact, I'm sure this is a fairly prevalent practice.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

The entire reason fantasy football was allowable was because the factor of time and multiple games upped the "skill" factor involved and supposedly minimized luck. That's why single game wagering is illegal while fantasy sports is not. My guess is legislators quickly step in and deem one week betting to also tilt too heavily towards the luck side of things.

The problem for DFS is that their best argument in favor of it being skill versus luck is that a small number of players win a huge percentage of the games. That demonstrates that it's not just luck. Unfortunately, if they have to make that their argument, they're probably going to lose a bunch of business by admitting that

People lose a lot of money doing DFS. It is obvious in their advertising as well, "I have deposited a total of $35 on Fanduel, and have won over 2.2 million." That means $2.2M has been lost by other people to just this one guy... I know most of us get that but the general public, I don't know.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

This reminds me of an old saying that says it's easier to swindle a million people out of 10 bucks than 10 people out of a million.

 

[tdoss]

Just open up percentage owned for everyone to see real time...it'll end this particular controversy.

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

I miss DraftStreet. They had live drafts with everywhere from 2 to 12 participants. I primarily play NBA...having player exclusivity made the games a lot more fun. I don't know why DraftKings bought them and then didn't take on the live draft room software. Seems strange...

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Just open up percentage owned for everyone to see real time...it'll end this particular controversy.

Employees at DFS sites would still be able to see the players that sharps have picked. That's a much bigger adv.

 

[lumpy19]

Some expect the government to take action, marking the end of the multi-billion dollar fantasy sports industry as we know it.

Rooting for this. If I can't play poker on-line, then this form of gambling should not be allowed either. Then these people can hate Sheldon Adelson as much as I do since he stared the ball rolling due to his own greed. It will be a great day when the stuff this old POS 6 feet under.

PokerStars has been approved in NJ. I'm reading they plan on opening their in early 2016

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Some expect the government to take action, marking the end of the multi-billion dollar fantasy sports industry as we know it.

Rooting for this. If I can't play poker on-line, then this form of gambling should not be allowed either. Then these people can hate Sheldon Adelson as much as I do since he stared the ball rolling due to his own greed. It will be a great day when the stuff this old POS 6 feet under.

This is completely backwards. If DFS can't get its act together, what hope is there for poker or sports betting? I'm not as big of a fan of DFS as the other two, but if they're the Trojan Horse that allows America to be a civilized place where I can freely gamble, then I'm all for it.

 

[Quez]

I would be interested to see how this guy actually cheated.

They said the pros submit hundreds of lineups, and involves scripts for finding head to heads, etc. It sounds like there is way more involved than knowing 3-4 lock high scoring players.

And what contest did he win the 350k in? Was it a single tournament? I wonder how many lineups he had? Or was it a bunch of other types of games?

You would have to think that there are presently people scraping these contest pages to analyze everything. Whether it's to try and create a script to get an edge, or identify cheating, etc.

 

[PIK95]

What's a sharp?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

What's a sharp?

Someone who is good enough to consistently win.

 

[[icon]]

What's a sharp?

In betting of any sort, a sharp is someone who has the knowledge/skill to beat the house. Roughly speaking.

 

[lod01]

I would be interested to see how this guy actually cheated.

They said the pros submit hundreds of lineups, and involves scripts for finding head to heads, etc. It sounds like there is way more involved than knowing 3-4 lock high scoring players.

And what contest did he win the 350k in? Was it a single tournament? I wonder how many lineups he had? Or was it a bunch of other types of games?

You would have to think that there are presently people scraping these contest pages to analyze everything. Whether it's to try and create a script to get an edge, or identify cheating, etc.

That's why I don't give them a dime. I'll play the free ones early in the season and if I win some $ fine. If not, bye. It's simply another form of the lotto.

 

[Hov34]

Use promo code GO####YOURSELF to get a 100% deposit bonus!!1!1

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Just open up percentage owned for everyone to see real time...it'll end this particular controversy.

How do you prevent employee from changing his lineup after the fact? Once you look shady it's hard to look reputable.

 

[Willie Neslon]

Just open up percentage owned for everyone to see real time...it'll end this particular controversy.

People would just wait to put their real lineups in until the last minute. Put dummy lineups in there and then change them up late. Those percentages would all be out of whack until 10 minutes before kickoff. Everyone will be doing the ol' switcharoo.

I think it'd be dumb to outlaw at this point. You'll have offshore DFS sites pop up and all of that tax revenue will go to guys in costa rica. Bookies will have to start offering DFS. "Yeah, can I get Duke minus 9, Temple plus 2 and give me $3 GPP with Durant, Bosh, Wall...."

 

[The Ref]

Guys don't worry about it. The fantasy sports association is getting involved with this. Nothing to worry about here.

 

[Tom Servo]

How can you trust these sites going forward?

 

[James Daulton]

I'll bet the Patriots were involved somehow. Kraft owns one or some of these sites so the hoody is probably the mastermind.

Where's Roger when you need him??

 

[snogger]

Just open up percentage owned for everyone to see real time...it'll end this particular controversy.

How do you prevent employee from changing his lineup after the fact? Once you look shady it's hard to look reputable.

You keep posting this.. Yet there is only one instance that you have provided a link to and FD resounded to that..

I also mentioned in the DFS forum that their answer has been experienced by me who is a VERY low volume player( 3 or 4 games a week) i.e. made an edit to a roster and when I checked upcoming games my changes didn't show up right away.

 

[snogger]

Just open up percentage owned for everyone to see real time...it'll end this particular controversy.

People would just wait to put their real lineups in until the last minute. Put dummy lineups in there and then change them up late. Those percentages would all be out of whack until 10 minutes before kickoff. Everyone will be doing the ol' switcharoo.

I think it'd be dumb to outlaw at this point. You'll have offshore DFS sites pop up and all of that tax revenue will go to guys in costa rica. Bookies will have to start offering DFS. "Yeah, can I get Duke minus 9, Temple plus 2 and give me $3 GPP with Durant, Bosh, Wall...."

works for me.. Everyone on the same playing field and we are back to educated guesses on who will be played the most if you want to avoid them.

 

[leftcoastguy7]

I wonder if FBGs is feeling any regret for all the pimping they did for FanDuel.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I wonder if FBGs is feeling any regret for all the pimping they did for FanDuel.

 

[MattFancy]

ESPN removes daily fantasy sponsored content from their shows, but keeps the ads

 

[Apple Jack]

Shouldn't have had in program content in the first place.

 

[Quez]

I wonder if FBGs is feeling any regret for all the pimping they did for FanDuel.

I'm sure everyone involved in the industry is monitoring this. But, Footballguys was here before DFS, and I'm sure they would remain if it was gone.I don't see any way of putting this back in the bag though. Say for instance, all DFS was shut down tomorrow. The same thing would happen with poker. They would move to the Carribean & a good portion will play illegally.

Thus, there would still be a demand for DFS advice.

 

[Quez]

lode01 mentioned Sheldon Adelsons name earlier. He is such a political meddling scumbag. He donated millions in FL against medical marijuana to get in favor with the opposition, so they would help him out on his casino interest. Either allowing casinos & giving him one, or not allowing them to reduce the competition for his casinos. Most likely the later.

Someone who goes through these efforts to control gambling, must be livid every time he hears one of these commercials.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Guys don't worry about it. The fantasy sports association is getting involved with this. Nothing to worry about here.

I just hope Hall Of Famer Michael Fabiano does something about this.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Just open up percentage owned for everyone to see real time...it'll end this particular controversy.

How do you prevent employee from changing his lineup after the fact? Once you look shady it's hard to look reputable.

You keep posting this.. Yet there is only one instance that you have provided a link to and FD resounded to that..I also mentioned in the DFS forum that their answer has been experienced by me who is a VERY low volume player( 3 or 4 games a week) i.e. made an edit to a roster and when I checked upcoming games my changes didn't show up right away.

So stop following me and responding?

Any company dealing with billions of dollars should have secrets that update immediately. And the database should be locked at beginning of the contest. If condia waited too long to get all his changes in then tough ####.

I've yet to see one reasonable explanation how the employee cleaned up in baseball several times. You don't do that with ownership percentages. You do that changing lineups.

 

[Warrior]

The entire reason fantasy football was allowable was because the factor of time and multiple games upped the "skill" factor involved and supposedly minimized luck. That's why single game wagering is illegal while fantasy sports is not. My guess is legislators quickly step in and deem one week betting to also tilt too heavily towards the luck side of things.

The problem for DFS is that their best argument in favor of it being skill versus luck is that a small number of players win a huge percentage of the games. That demonstrates that it's not just luck. Unfortunately, if they have to make that their argument, they're probably going to lose a bunch of business by admitting that

That argument worked out great for online poker.

 

[Apple Jack]

Just open up percentage owned for everyone to see real time...it'll end this particular controversy.

How do you prevent employee from changing his lineup after the fact? Once you look shady it's hard to look reputable.

You keep posting this.. Yet there is only one instance that you have provided a link to and FD resounded to that..I also mentioned in the DFS forum that their answer has been experienced by me who is a VERY low volume player( 3 or 4 games a week) i.e. made an edit to a roster and when I checked upcoming games my changes didn't show up right away.

So stop following me and responding?

Any company dealing with billions of dollars should have secrets that update immediately. And the database should be locked at beginning of the contest. If condia waited too long to get all his changes in then tough ####.

I've yet to see one reasonable explanation how the employee cleaned up in baseball several times. You don't do that with ownership percentages. You do that changing lineups.

Link?

The reality is that we don't have nearly enough information to suss his run out. No context. No idea how many lineups he entered. How did he do prior to working at DK?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Just open up percentage owned for everyone to see real time...it'll end this particular controversy.

How do you prevent employee from changing his lineup after the fact? Once you look shady it's hard to look reputable.

You keep posting this.. Yet there is only one instance that you have provided a link to and FD resounded to that..I also mentioned in the DFS forum that their answer has been experienced by me who is a VERY low volume player( 3 or 4 games a week) i.e. made an edit to a roster and when I checked upcoming games my changes didn't show up right away.

So stop following me and responding?Any company dealing with billions of dollars should have secrets that update immediately. And the database should be locked at beginning of the contest. If condia waited too long to get all his changes in then tough ####.

I've yet to see one reasonable explanation how the employee cleaned up in baseball several times. You don't do that with ownership percentages. You do that changing lineups.

Link?

Common sense?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

It really all depends on how far "in" they were smart enough to get with the politicians. Casinos are "gambling" in its purest form but they have state governments in their back pocket so it does not matter, it is "legal".

 

[Apple Jack]

Common sense says you bleed it slowly rather than stringing high finishes together which is going to get you noticed.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Common sense says you bleed it slowly rather than stringing high finishes together which is going to get you noticed.

Reminds me of the Pick 6 horse racing scandal a few years back. Dorks made it so obvious in their betting structure.

 

[chet]

The entire reason fantasy football was allowable was because the factor of time and multiple games upped the "skill" factor involved and supposedly minimized luck. That's why single game wagering is illegal while fantasy sports is not. My guess is legislators quickly step in and deem one week betting to also tilt too heavily towards the luck side of things.

The problem for DFS is that their best argument in favor of it being skill versus luck is that a small number of players win a huge percentage of the games. That demonstrates that it's not just luck. Unfortunately, if they have to make that their argument, they're probably going to lose a bunch of business by admitting that

That argument worked out great for online poker.

With online poker, you could recreate the hand and look for odd plays.

Not possible with DFS unfortunately.

 

[jon_mx]

They should ban their employees from playing. That would be the smart move.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I've yet to see one reasonable explanation how the employee cleaned up in baseball several times. You don't do that with ownership percentages. You do that changing lineups.

Here is a pretty good rundown of the scandal, but I'll pull out the relevant part: http://www.legalsportsreport.com/4548/draftkings-data-leak-faq/

How does access to ownership data provide an edge?Ownership percentage is one piece of the puzzle that can be useful in skillfully setting DFS lineups, especially in guaranteed prize pool contests. Top players try to predict ownership percentages, and data about past ownership percentages can be dissected for information.

Because of the massive number of entries in the biggest contests at DraftKings and FanDuel — hundreds of thousands — it’s usually difficult to win a contest with a lot of players that are commonly owned. Rostering some players with low ownership percentages and a high upside is astrategy that many players employ.

Ed Miller, an independent games consultant who has written frequently about DFS, says that it’sdifficult to overstate the value of lineup data.

“If you knew beforehand which players would be most used, in the major sports you can build +EV (positive expected value) cash game and GPP lineups based almost solely on that knowledge,” Miller told Legal Sports Report

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I've yet to see one reasonable explanation how the employee cleaned up in baseball several times. You don't do that with ownership percentages. You do that changing lineups.

Here is a pretty good rundown of the scandal, but I'll pull out the relevant part: http://www.legalsportsreport.com/4548/draftkings-data-leak-faq/

How does access to ownership data provide an edge?Ownership percentage is one piece of the puzzle that can be useful in skillfully setting DFS lineups, especially in guaranteed prize pool contests. Top players try to predict ownership percentages, and data about past ownership percentages can be dissected for information.

Because of the massive number of entries in the biggest contests at DraftKings and FanDuel — hundreds of thousands — it’s usually difficult to win a contest with a lot of players that are commonly owned. Rostering some players with low ownership percentages and a high upside is astrategy that many players employ.

Ed Miller, an independent games consultant who has written frequently about DFS, says that it’sdifficult to overstate the value of lineup data.

“If you knew beforehand which players would be most used, in the major sports you can build +EV (positive expected value) cash game and GPP lineups based almost solely on that knowledge,” Miller told Legal Sports Report

Changing your lineup "past post" ie., after the first game starts, doesn't seem like it would work in terms of going undetected. Once lineups lock, everyone's rosters become public knowledge, and I think that they're scraped/aggregated, although I am not positive. But sites like Rotogrinders keep track of results like this. And if you're a high-profile player, it's just a matter of time before someone notices on their own and cries foul.

FWIW, the founder of rotogrinders says that the query that this employee ran was 1 hour after the first round of games (not incl London) went off, so it appears that he didn't necessarily use that particular set of information to gain an advantage.

Is there a way to query DK without leaving a record, and then leveraging that information on other sites? Is there a way to see what players the best DFS players have selected, and then tailing them on other sites? Both seem like they're possible, especially in a burgeoning industry where actual regulation is scant. But nobody really knows. But those are much better ways of cheating than changing your lineup past-post, which I'm sure leaves a record.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I thought Fan Duel and Draft Kings issued a co-statement saying that they determined there was no funny business. This should clear things up.

 

[IC FBGCav]

I've yet to see one reasonable explanation how the employee cleaned up in baseball several times. You don't do that with ownership percentages. You do that changing lineups.

Here is a pretty good rundown of the scandal, but I'll pull out the relevant part: http://www.legalsportsreport.com/4548/draftkings-data-leak-faq/

How does access to ownership data provide an edge?Ownership percentage is one piece of the puzzle that can be useful in skillfully setting DFS lineups, especially in guaranteed prize pool contests. Top players try to predict ownership percentages, and data about past ownership percentages can be dissected for information.

Because of the massive number of entries in the biggest contests at DraftKings and FanDuel — hundreds of thousands — it’s usually difficult to win a contest with a lot of players that are commonly owned. Rostering some players with low ownership percentages and a high upside is astrategy that many players employ.

Ed Miller, an independent games consultant who has written frequently about DFS, says that it’sdifficult to overstate the value of lineup data.

“If you knew beforehand which players would be most used, in the major sports you can build +EV (positive expected value) cash game and GPP lineups based almost solely on that knowledge,” Miller told Legal Sports Report

Maurlie's mom will still school them.