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DFS Scandals in E.F.F.E.C.T (1 Viewer)

i think they were pretty honest in their "town hall". They are a FF business and daily DFS is a big part of FF currently. They openly criticized a lot of the things going on in DFS, it wasn't an infomercial.

I don't think their season long coverage material has suffered as a result, if people don't care about DFS they don't have to read any of those articles.
I understand your opinion but I respectfully disagree. The notion that anybody would label two owners getting inverviewed by a paid employee a "town hall" is ridiculous at best. Not only that--when you have two very intelligent grown adults squirm and have difficulty answering the first question "If DFS is gambling" honestly--- it does become an infomercial. Bill Burr gets advertising revenue from Draftkings to do read throughs in his podcast--and he would refer to it as gambling. Draftkings would send him letters pressuring him to not refer to it as gambling--so the notion that companies that only get advertising revenue (and not revenue share) are not controlled by the DFS companies in regards to what they say is false (which is a point that Dodds and Bryant attempt to make) Playing any game for money is gambling period. If they were being honest--they coud have merely said "yes--by definition playing any game for money is gambling. However, our government has a legal carve out that views the world of fantasy sports as not being gambling".

The entire interview has the overtones of "hey--everybody should play DFS--but at appropriate levels--and play appropriate games/contests" which is far different than painting a complete picture of the DFS world. They never once get into what total percentage of DFS players actually turn a profit. They never go into detail about what percentage of the prize pools the big high volume lineup optimizing players have been representing. Yes--I do give them credit for mentioning a few ideas of how they think the DFS industry can improve--but that is far from painting an entire picture in a "town hall" format. I give them credit for the "late swap" ideas, and I do like how they both mention that the volume of lineups be capped. I do think they do under estimate the "corruption" possibilities in the world of DFS-as they only very lightly go over the negative attributes that scripting can be used for.

I also find it telling that they try to act like they always have been on the side of telling the truth--and don't do things for "money" because they frankly don't need the money. They tried to minimize their relationship with DFS companies by saying their relationship is only advertising based---and not revenue shared. In another forum--Dodds mentioned that the last few years--prior to the DFS explosion--the amount of subscriptions being sold was stagnant. They mention that in this interview that they have increased their staff on the DFS side drastically-while not "removing" any staffing from the non-DFS side. While this all sounds great--this essentially means that they have no interest in growing their business/content on the non-DFS side---a clear indication that all of their focus for future business growth is DFS. The FBG guys are essentially betting on DFS and their business is largely dependent on it. There is nothing wrong with this--and I wish them all the greatest of success--as it is well deserved through very hard work. However--for them to accept lots of advertising revenue from DFS--for them to acknowledge that DFS has been great for their subscriber base volume-but to tell us at the same time that what they say is completely "unfiltered" is frankly questionable at best. The number one rule in business is that you don't want to alienate your clients/revenue streams--so by definition they will be motivated to paint the DFS industry in the brightest light possible--while trying to look objective at the same time--and this is exactly what this "town hall"/infomercial is.

I want to make clear that I have no skin in the DFS game--nor in the FBG game--I'm not a subscriber. I do post here in the Shark Pool--and that's basically it. My opinions are based on what my eyes see and what my ears hear. I know there was another thread where non-dfs subscribers were airing out some frustration with the non-dfs content they were getting (and the timeliness of it)---and while Adam responded passionately and showed that he cared for the non-dfs side--Dodds response was less than inviting, sensitive or encouraging. I personally found that his response sounded very disinterested. The fact that he, Bryant, and the shill interviewer took the time to create this--while neither of them spent even 10-20 minutes answering the concerns of the non-dfs subscribers is telling how how vetted they are in DFS and how much it means to them.

In any case---I want to make clear that I'm not a hater nor I against anything the FBG's do. They are hardworking guys that run a business--which is what I do. I just wish they would more publically embrace their obvious relationships and loyalites with the DFS industry. I think that would be a far better look than accepting lots of money from the big DFS companies but trying to act impartial about it. With that being said--maybe them trying to appear impartial might end up being a good thing. My prediction is that if DFS were to continue for the next few years---that it's just a matter of time for some sort of scandal/cheating to be exposed. In this day and age--where cyber crime/hacking are at all time sophisticated levels--I would be shocked if the DFS industry were to completely avoid exposure to this. If and when that happens--it probably won't be a good look for the companies and people that all out supported DFS.

 
RC94 said:
This sounds a little like the lawsuit by college basketball players vs the NCAA for using/selling their likenesses in video games. Does anyone know why this would not apply to overall traditional FF? I may not understand the issue or maybe it's been discussed, if so I'm open ears, thanks.
There was a lawsuit on the application to traditional FF (might have actually been baseball) a few years back as well. The ruling was that stats are public information so applying them to fantasy was fair use.

 
The difference between traditional fantasy football, which dates to sports writers going over box scores in newspapers in the early 60s, which then grew into groups of friends and coworkers getting together in modest leagues in the far majority of cases, versus modern daily is the difference between Wednesday night poker games or bridge clubs versus casinos. It is totally different in aspect. Is it so odd that corruption has snuck into the big money gambling aspect? Didn't that happen in the early days of casinos? The problem is that the two have become mixed. Daily fantasy has taken people who love a sport and typically an informal venture and turned them into gamblers. We keep hearing in the ads about how much money has been won, ok tell me this - how much has been lost?

 
Simon Shepherd said:
Cliff Notes?

Is it basically FBG telling us everything with Draftkings and FanDuel is 100% legit and no one has access to data that the public doesn't have as well?
The idea of the video is for Joe and David to give some honest opinions about daily fantasy. For you guys' benefit - not for the DFS sites. A lot of the content is actually them saying what the industry needs to do to allay those kind of genuine fears.
:thumbup: Watching now. Dodds has a lot of great ideas to improve DFS as a whole. The threads on all the forums here would be better off if he posted those opinions instead of some of the other employees just 100% defending DFS no matter what. My 2 cents.
I agree they brought up some great ideas of how DFS sites can become more transparent and avoid transparency. I thought it was laughaable that in the first three minutes DD is doing mental gymnastics to argue that DFS is not gambling, then Joe follows up using the pronoun 'we' in describing and defending the set up.
It's mental gymnastics to simply say it's not gambling defined by current law?
It's dishonest through omission of facts. Betting money on any game is gambling. Our government not "enforcing" it as illegal under gambling laws doesn't change the actual definition of gambling. If it's not mental gymastics--its self-serving semantics that has been motivated by DFS advertising revenue.
 
Larry Fitzgerald will be on CNBC shortly to discuss Pierre Garcon's lawsuit with FanDuel.

ETA: This was a bust. Fitz is pro-DFS because it draws attention to the game.

 
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i think they were pretty honest in their "town hall". They are a FF business and daily DFS is a big part of FF currently. They openly criticized a lot of the things going on in DFS, it wasn't an infomercial.

I don't think their season long coverage material has suffered as a result, if people don't care about DFS they don't have to read any of those articles.
I understand your opinion but I respectfully disagree. The notion that anybody would label two owners getting inverviewed by a paid employee a "town hall" is ridiculous at best. Not only that--when you have two very intelligent grown adults squirm and have difficulty answering the first question "If DFS is gambling" honestly--- it does become an infomercial. Bill Burr gets advertising revenue from Draftkings to do read throughs in his podcast--and he would refer to it as gambling. Draftkings would send him letters pressuring him to not refer to it as gambling--so the notion that companies that only get advertising revenue (and not revenue share) are not controlled by the DFS companies in regards to what they say is false (which is a point that Dodds and Bryant attempt to make) Playing any game for money is gambling period. If they were being honest--they coud have merely said "yes--by definition playing any game for money is gambling. However, our government has a legal carve out that views the world of fantasy sports as not being gambling".

The entire interview has the overtones of "hey--everybody should play DFS--but at appropriate levels--and play appropriate games/contests" which is far different than painting a complete picture of the DFS world. They never once get into what total percentage of DFS players actually turn a profit. They never go into detail about what percentage of the prize pools the big high volume lineup optimizing players have been representing. Yes--I do give them credit for mentioning a few ideas of how they think the DFS industry can improve--but that is far from painting an entire picture in a "town hall" format. I give them credit for the "late swap" ideas, and I do like how they both mention that the volume of lineups be capped. I do think they do under estimate the "corruption" possibilities in the world of DFS-as they only very lightly go over the negative attributes that scripting can be used for.

I also find it telling that they try to act like they always have been on the side of telling the truth--and don't do things for "money" because they frankly don't need the money. They tried to minimize their relationship with DFS companies by saying their relationship is only advertising based---and not revenue shared. In another forum--Dodds mentioned that the last few years--prior to the DFS explosion--the amount of subscriptions being sold was stagnant. They mention that in this interview that they have increased their staff on the DFS side drastically-while not "removing" any staffing from the non-DFS side. While this all sounds great--this essentially means that they have no interest in growing their business/content on the non-DFS side---a clear indication that all of their focus for future business growth is DFS. The FBG guys are essentially betting on DFS and their business is largely dependent on it. There is nothing wrong with this--and I wish them all the greatest of success--as it is well deserved through very hard work. However--for them to accept lots of advertising revenue from DFS--for them to acknowledge that DFS has been great for their subscriber base volume-but to tell us at the same time that what they say is completely "unfiltered" is frankly questionable at best. The number one rule in business is that you don't want to alienate your clients/revenue streams--so by definition they will be motivated to paint the DFS industry in the brightest light possible--while trying to look objective at the same time--and this is exactly what this "town hall"/infomercial is.

I want to make clear that I have no skin in the DFS game--nor in the FBG game--I'm not a subscriber. I do post here in the Shark Pool--and that's basically it. My opinions are based on what my eyes see and what my ears hear. I know there was another thread where non-dfs subscribers were airing out some frustration with the non-dfs content they were getting (and the timeliness of it)---and while Adam responded passionately and showed that he cared for the non-dfs side--Dodds response was less than inviting, sensitive or encouraging. I personally found that his response sounded very disinterested. The fact that he, Bryant, and the shill interviewer took the time to create this--while neither of them spent even 10-20 minutes answering the concerns of the non-dfs subscribers is telling how how vetted they are in DFS and how much it means to them.

In any case---I want to make clear that I'm not a hater nor I against anything the FBG's do. They are hardworking guys that run a business--which is what I do. I just wish they would more publically embrace their obvious relationships and loyalites with the DFS industry. I think that would be a far better look than accepting lots of money from the big DFS companies but trying to act impartial about it. With that being said--maybe them trying to appear impartial might end up being a good thing. My prediction is that if DFS were to continue for the next few years---that it's just a matter of time for some sort of scandal/cheating to be exposed. In this day and age--where cyber crime/hacking are at all time sophisticated levels--I would be shocked if the DFS industry were to completely avoid exposure to this. If and when that happens--it probably won't be a good look for the companies and people that all out supported DFS.
I rarely read long posts but this one was worth it. Well said.

 
I just want the commercials burned and buried. I can't take them anymore. I just can't.

It's like a plague!!!!!! Please go away!!!!!

 
Larry Fitzgerald will be on CNBC shortly to discuss Pierre Garcon's lawsuit with FanDuel.

ETA: This was a bust. Fitz is pro-DFS because it draws attention to the game.
That's not a bust.....that's a WIN.

He knows what butters his bread. Take away DFS and fantasy football, you then take away interest in the game.

 
Larry Fitzgerald will be on CNBC shortly to discuss Pierre Garcon's lawsuit with FanDuel.

ETA: This was a bust. Fitz is pro-DFS because it draws attention to the game.
That's not a bust.....that's a WIN.

He knows what butters his bread. Take away DFS and fantasy football, you then take away interest in the game.
You mean, "...take away interest in the players."

Fantasy footballers stopped caring about the game long ago. DFSers never cared about the game.

 
Larry Fitzgerald will be on CNBC shortly to discuss Pierre Garcon's lawsuit with FanDuel.

ETA: This was a bust. Fitz is pro-DFS because it draws attention to the game.
That's not a bust.....that's a WIN.

He knows what butters his bread. Take away DFS and fantasy football, you then take away interest in the game.
Right. Interest in the sport was waning to the point they were seriously considering contraction. God bless DFS.

 
I mean, I saw this day coming for years. I've always withdrawn all of my money after the end of a week... I was afraid the site could go dark at any moment like the poker sites. The commercials didn't help, drawing attention didn't help, but that damn story about the guy "cheating" was the final straw. What could have happened next year is happening now instead.

 
I'm honestly surprised it has come to this. Online poker didn't have the powerful leagues and television networks behind them.

 
Your money is fine though. This is a ton different than poker. And no, its not over, far from it. This NYC AG is one of the most aggressive of all time. He has had plenty of rulings overturned. He has been out to make a name for a long time and has habitually overstepped his bounds.

 
Darren Rovell mentioned something on TV about the sites having five days to respond. So maybe you can in some games this week (Sunday only?). I'm not gonna risk it tho.

Hope this goes to the Court of Appeals. The Attorney General is just one guy!

 
I hope they outlaw it to be honest. Just to stop that stupid guy with the beard and sweatshirt from being on my TV. Done!

 
It was only a matter of time. Let's hope the bans don't extend to season-long $$$ contests. Hopefully not, but if they do, oh well, back to playing fantasy football with local friends.

 
It was only a matter of time. Let's hope the bans don't extend to season-long $$$ contests. Hopefully not, but if they do, oh well, back to playing fantasy football with local friends.
From what I heard on 880 news here in NY (so not first hand, but objective) the AG made a clear distinction with season long "traditional" fantasy and daily.

Let's be honest, that's how most people see it. Perhaps not so coincidentally because that's that obvious reality. It's just we used to call daily fantasy props and instead of the masses, they were saved for the true aficionado*

* aka dregs

 
Interesting that NY ban applies only to Fanduel and Draftkings thus far. Yahoo still allowed. Cant imagine it lasts though

 
I've said it before, daily fantasy has all the elements and dangers of traditional gambling. It shouldn't be legal where gambling isn't. Glad to see this tide forming. Good riddance. Better to stop them now before anecdotes start coming out of ruined financial lives. It's still early enough to segregate these games from traditional fantasy sports and throw out the bathwater while saving our baby.

 
I've said it before, daily fantasy has all the elements and dangers of traditional gambling. It shouldn't be legal where gambling isn't. Glad to see this tide forming. Good riddance. Better to stop them now before anecdotes start coming out of ruined financial lives. It's still early enough to segregate these games from traditional fantasy sports and throw out the bathwater while saving our baby.
Yes, we need the govt. to step in and save people from themselves. Let's ban bridges too so people won't jump off of them when they get suicidal. Why are people never held accountable for their own actions and it's always someone or something else's fault when they screw up. Do you honestly think DFS ( or gambling in general) is the only avenue for a fool and his $$ to part? I'm sure all these people who went broke gambling had every other aspect of their financial lives in perfect order.

 
Drive them servers upstate to Native American tribal land. All NY citizens can gamble there.

Whole new set of laws or treaties the AG has to deal with

 
It was only a matter of time. Let's hope the bans don't extend to season-long $$$ contests. Hopefully not, but if they do, oh well, back to playing fantasy football with local friends.
From what I heard on 880 news here in NY (so not first hand, but objective) the AG made a clear distinction with season long "traditional" fantasy and daily.

Let's be honest, that's how most people see it. Perhaps not so coincidentally because that's that obvious reality. It's just we used to call daily fantasy props and instead of the masses, they were saved for the true aficionado*

* aka dregs
Yup…there's a lot more skill in projecting Lewis, Charles, Bell, Allen, etc getting hurt than someone's weekly yardage.

It's all gambling.

 
Well the AG is basically saying that season-long is skill-based; DFS is not.

That's laughable.
It's all gambling--but I do think the difference is in how a season long business versus DFS operates. A season long team is generally a one time buy in --whereas the DFS platform is one that has taken it to a "repeatable" casino type game. DFS companies promote multiple bets, multiple buy ins--and the nature of their business is operated the same way a casino is. With that being said--I do agree with you--both are skill based--and both are gambling. The only difference is that season long leagues have not really overtly taken advantage of the legal carve out that allows them to exist--while DFS industries took that carve out and abused it to unfathomable levels.

 
Well the AG is basically saying that season-long is skill-based; DFS is not.

That's laughable.
It's all gambling--but I do think the difference is in how a season long business versus DFS operates. A season long team is generally a one time buy in --whereas the DFS platform is one that has taken it to a "repeatable" casino type game. DFS companies promote multiple bets, multiple buy ins--and the nature of their business is operated the same way a casino is. With that being said--I do agree with you--both are skill based--and both are gambling. The only difference is that season long leagues have not really overtly taken advantage of the legal carve out that allows them to exist--while DFS industries took that carve out and abused it to unfathomable levels.
This is true if you exclude all the mega sea on long contests that went belly up and never paid out prizes. Actually the gov't should have done something about the crooks like Mike Z and the WCCOFF first. On top of that I'm constantly reading about commishes disappearing in the night with league fees.

If you look at the facts, season long FF is much more in need of regulation than daily ff.

 
Well the AG is basically saying that season-long is skill-based; DFS is not.

That's laughable.
It's all gambling--but I do think the difference is in how a season long business versus DFS operates. A season long team is generally a one time buy in --whereas the DFS platform is one that has taken it to a "repeatable" casino type game. DFS companies promote multiple bets, multiple buy ins--and the nature of their business is operated the same way a casino is. With that being said--I do agree with you--both are skill based--and both are gambling. The only difference is that season long leagues have not really overtly taken advantage of the legal carve out that allows them to exist--while DFS industries took that carve out and abused it to unfathomable levels.
This is true if you exclude all the mega sea on long contests that went belly up and never paid out prizes. Actually the gov't should have done something about the crooks like Mike Z and the WCCOFF first. On top of that I'm constantly reading about commishes disappearing in the night with league fees.

If you look at the facts, season long FF is much more in need of regulation than daily ff.
Yes--but there is lots of cheating and fraud at poker home games too. It's all about scale and how many people are affected. I'm not sure how big Mike Z or WCOFF were--but I imagine they were a drop in the bucket in regards to how prolific they are compared to DFS. There will be crooks and fraudulent people in every business. This is a different dynamic versus if a certain industry should be subject to certain regulations. I personally would have no issue if regulations spilled into the season long side.
 
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LawFitz said:
It was only a matter of time. Let's hope the bans don't extend to season-long $$$ contests. Hopefully not, but if they do, oh well, back to playing fantasy football with local friends.
hopefully they still print the USA today and I can go back to hand calc the stats!

 
ROCKET said:
LawFitz said:
I've said it before, daily fantasy has all the elements and dangers of traditional gambling. It shouldn't be legal where gambling isn't. Glad to see this tide forming. Good riddance. Better to stop them now before anecdotes start coming out of ruined financial lives. It's still early enough to segregate these games from traditional fantasy sports and throw out the bathwater while saving our baby.
Yes, we need the govt. to step in and save people from themselves. Let's ban bridges too so people won't jump off of them when they get suicidal. Why are people never held accountable for their own actions and it's always someone or something else's fault when they screw up. Do you honestly think DFS ( or gambling in general) is the only avenue for a fool and his $$ to part? I'm sure all these people who went broke gambling had every other aspect of their financial lives in perfect order.
Like I wrote in the other DFS thread, you want to make all gambling legal, great, go for it. I may even vote with you when the time comes. But until you do, where gambling is illegal so should be DFS. They are the one and the same.

 

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