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DFS Scandals in E.F.F.E.C.T (3 Viewers)

LawFitz said:
It was only a matter of time. Let's hope the bans don't extend to season-long $$$ contests. Hopefully not, but if they do, oh well, back to playing fantasy football with local friends.
hopefully they still print the USA today and I can go back to hand calc the stats!
I don't think we need to worry about platform providers going away. Or even about big brother coming in to bust our local money leagues. It's the companies collecting buyins and distributing cash prizes for the season-long game that might be in trouble in the anti-DFS wave, since the broader public may not be able to differentiate the two games. Unfortunate because I really do think season-long fantasy gambling is a lot safer, since you don't have the downward spiral effect of chasing losses. But if they need to go too, then so be it.

Local leagues and the yahoo/espn season-long money-free platforms aren't at risk at all IMO.

 
For an industry that so heavily markets towards young 20 something guys, I want to know where these dudes are getting the money to play (and lose, likely) because everything I read about the economy is that for young males entering the workplace, the job outlook sucks as a whole.

Shouldn't these dudes be moving out of their parent's basements and getting their own health insurance and phone plans before tossing in on this?

I say all that in a tongue-in-cheek fashion but it does go to support LawFitz's thoughts, somewhat. A get rich quick carrot dangling over young men who it aggressively markets towards is a recipe in the making for people making very poor financial decisions and getting sucked into gambling issues very young in life.

 
Draftkings and Fanduel battled for market share like Coke and Pepsi . . . even when they should have known it was time to go quiet. If that meant eating all those advertising spots, then so be it. Negotiate out of it or take a little bath for now. Instead your golden egg is about to be cooked. So stupid and greedy. New York is a pretty big domino.

 
For an industry that so heavily markets towards young 20 something guys, I want to know where these dudes are getting the money to play (and lose, likely) because everything I read about the economy is that for young males entering the workplace, the job outlook sucks as a whole.

Shouldn't these dudes be moving out of their parent's basements and getting their own health insurance and phone plans before tossing in on this?

I say all that in a tongue-in-cheek fashion but it does go to support LawFitz's thoughts, somewhat. A get rich quick carrot dangling over young men who it aggressively markets towards is a recipe in the making for people making very poor financial decisions and getting sucked into gambling issues very young in life.
Perfect for Disney!!

 
For an industry that so heavily markets towards young 20 something guys, I want to know where these dudes are getting the money to play (and lose, likely) because everything I read about the economy is that for young males entering the workplace, the job outlook sucks as a whole.

Shouldn't these dudes be moving out of their parent's basements and getting their own health insurance and phone plans before tossing in on this?

I say all that in a tongue-in-cheek fashion but it does go to support LawFitz's thoughts, somewhat. A get rich quick carrot dangling over young men who it aggressively markets towards is a recipe in the making for people making very poor financial decisions and getting sucked into gambling issues very young in life.
Perfect for Disney!!
The Mighty Fanducks

 
ROCKET said:
LawFitz said:
I've said it before, daily fantasy has all the elements and dangers of traditional gambling. It shouldn't be legal where gambling isn't. Glad to see this tide forming. Good riddance. Better to stop them now before anecdotes start coming out of ruined financial lives. It's still early enough to segregate these games from traditional fantasy sports and throw out the bathwater while saving our baby.
Yes, we need the govt. to step in and save people from themselves. Let's ban bridges too so people won't jump off of them when they get suicidal. Why are people never held accountable for their own actions and it's always someone or something else's fault when they screw up. Do you honestly think DFS ( or gambling in general) is the only avenue for a fool and his $$ to part? I'm sure all these people who went broke gambling had every other aspect of their financial lives in perfect order.
Like I wrote in the other DFS thread, you want to make all gambling legal, great, go for it. I may even vote with you when the time comes. But until you do, where gambling is illegal so should be DFS. They are the one and the same.
Of course. My own selfish motives are hoping it goes the other way. I don't care much about DFS but I'm hoping it's an avenue to get sportsbooks in all casinos.

 
DK and FD have taken baby steps to help themselves but instead of crying that their game is skill and not gambling they should be focusing time on cleaning up the possibilities of cheating. Make the ownership percentages public so everyone has the same information. Create a CSV file available for download when a contest starts. Things like that.

And for crying out loud, get the stupid shady looking commercials off air every 5 minutes that scream HEY LOOK AT ME COME GAMBLE WITH US. They did this to themselves.

 
Daily fantasy sports gaming illegal in Canada, trade group says

The Canadian Gaming Association, a trade group whose stakeholders include casinos, said it has obtained a legal opinion claiming daily fantasy sports games are illegal under the Criminal Code of Canada.

TSN has learned the CGA commissioned Don Bourgeois, former general counsel for the Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario, to examine the legal standing of fantasy sports. Bourgeois also worked as a lawyer with the Ontario attorney general for 10 years from 1991-2001.

The gaming association plans to share Bourgeois’s report in the coming days with the current provincial attorneys general and also may contact local police about his findings, said Paul Burns, a CGA spokesman.

Burns said he would not share Bourgeois’s report, which is about 15 to 20 pages, with the public before it was distributed to government officials.

On Tuesday, the daily fantasy sports gaming industry was rocked after the New York State Attorney General Eric Schneiderman ordered the two biggest daily fantasy sports companies, DraftKings and FanDuel, to stop accepting bets from New York residents.

In a cease-and-desist order, Schneiderman said daily fantasy games constituted illegal gambling under New York state law.

Schneiderman’s order sent shockwaves through professional sports teams and leagues, some of whom have invested in the daily fantasy sports companies.

The NHL, for instance, is an investor in DraftKings. In July, the company announced a new round of funding worth $300 million. Investors included Fox Sports, the NHL, Major League Soccer and New York sports company Madison Square Garden.

Major League Baseball also has an equity stake in DraftKings and offers daily contests on MLB.com, while the NBA has an exclusive deal with FanDuel.

Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd., the parent company of the Maple Leafs and Raptors, recently signed a landmark four-year sponsorship with DraftKings that pays Canada’s largest private sports company more than $1 million per year.

TSN’s parent company, Bell Media, is a part owner of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd.

Some 41.5 million players in Canada and the U.S. played daily fantasy gaming in 2014, according to the Fantasy Sports Trade Association in Chicago. It’s unclear how many Canadians participate.Schneiderman charged fantasy sports is gambling because games involved both skill and luck. That claim also formed the backbone of Bourgeois’s conclusions.

“Fantasy gaming companies say they are lawful in Canada because they are games of skill,” Bourgeois said in an interview. “I looked at it. Is it a game of skill? No, not for purposes of the Criminal Code. The Criminal Code of Canada says if a game is a game of mixed skill and chance then it is considered a game of chance. That’s gambling.”

It’s unclear whether sports leagues that have invested in daily fantasy sports companies have exposure – civil or criminal – after Schneiderman’s order.

“At the very least the leagues are putting their investments at risk,” Bourgeois said. “If you invest $10 million or $20 million in a company or a system that ends up being illegal in Canada or the U.S., do you get your money back? What was the due diligence of the investor’s board of governors?”

The NHL has invested in DraftKings at the same time as the league has opposed making single-sport betting legal in Canada.

The CGA was among the biggest supporters of Bill C-290, a private member’s bill in Canada that sought to make legal single-sport event gambling.

That bill did not pass under the Conservative government, although the New Democratic Party has indicated it plans to revive the bill.

In Canada alone, an estimated $10 billion is bet through illegal booking operations by organized crime, according to the CGA, and another $5 billion goes to offshore online sports books. Legal sports lottery wagering is worth about $500 million.

The rise of daily fantasy sports gaming has raised numerous issues for pro sports leagues.

Several NHL player agents, for instance, say the league and union should agree on a policy for players and league employees participating in fantasy sports games.

“When Carey Price gets hurt, the players on that team know full well long before the general public does,” one agent told TSN in an interview. “And NHL employees and players on other teams know as well. If it’s possible for them to use that information and make money at it, then you need to have safeguards and policies in place.”

The NFL allows its players to participate in fantasy contests so long as the stakes don’t exceed $250 per year, The New York Times reported. All NFL employees, including players, coaches and team and league staff, are required to certify each year that they have received and read league policies and understand them.

It’s unclear whether the NHL and NHLPA are discussing a similar policy.
 
BassNBrew said:
Koya said:
LawFitz said:
It was only a matter of time. Let's hope the bans don't extend to season-long $$$ contests. Hopefully not, but if they do, oh well, back to playing fantasy football with local friends.
From what I heard on 880 news here in NY (so not first hand, but objective) the AG made a clear distinction with season long "traditional" fantasy and daily.

Let's be honest, that's how most people see it. Perhaps not so coincidentally because that's that obvious reality. It's just we used to call daily fantasy props and instead of the masses, they were saved for the true aficionado*

* aka dregs
Yup…there's a lot more skill in projecting Lewis, Charles, Bell, Allen, etc getting hurt than someone's weekly yardage.

It's all gambling.
A lot of luck <> gambling. Season long leagues provide numerous ways to mitigate / enhance certain factors through trades, add/drops, different lineups etc. Legally, it's not even close.

Doesn't mean it's not a game of luck, but also not gambling.

Personally, I'd prefer the gov't just let adults make decisions, so long as any establishment involved in gambling adheres to stringent regulations as such to make sure it's on the up and up.

 
DK and FD got caught up in a classic "prisoners' dilemma" in their advertising. Econ and law professors should use their case as an example when teaching that concept.

 
Like I wrote in the other DFS thread, you want to make all gambling legal, great, go for it. I may even vote with you when the time comes. But until you do, where gambling is illegal so should be DFS. They are the one and the same.
There is no such thing as "gambling is legal" or "gambling is illegal" as absolute statements. In every single state and territory in the U.S., some forms of gambling are legal while some forms are illegal.

In New York, for example, state lotteries, horse racing, and some brick-and-mortar casinos are perfectly legal, while various other forms of gambling (high-stakes home roulette, anyone?) are illegal.

The general unwritten rule is that if you give enough money to politicians, one way or another, your game can be legal. That's what the DFS operators are still working on. But let's not kid ourselves that this is about any principle more noble than that.

 
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DK and FD got caught up in a classic "prisoners' dilemma" in their advertising. Econ and law professors should use their case as an example when teaching that concept.
True, but there was probably nothing they could have done about it (legally). If DK and FD had agreed with each other not to advertise so much ("if you don't, I won't"), that would have likely run afoul of antitrust laws.

 
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BassNBrew said:
Koya said:
LawFitz said:
It was only a matter of time. Let's hope the bans don't extend to season-long $$$ contests. Hopefully not, but if they do, oh well, back to playing fantasy football with local friends.
From what I heard on 880 news here in NY (so not first hand, but objective) the AG made a clear distinction with season long "traditional" fantasy and daily.

Let's be honest, that's how most people see it. Perhaps not so coincidentally because that's that obvious reality. It's just we used to call daily fantasy props and instead of the masses, they were saved for the true aficionado*

* aka dregs
Yup…there's a lot more skill in projecting Lewis, Charles, Bell, Allen, etc getting hurt than someone's weekly yardage.

It's all gambling.
A lot of luck <> gambling. Season long leagues provide numerous ways to mitigate / enhance certain factors through trades, add/drops, different lineups etc. Legally, it's not even close.

Doesn't mean it's not a game of luck, but also not gambling.

Personally, I'd prefer the gov't just let adults make decisions, so long as any establishment involved in gambling adheres to stringent regulations as such to make sure it's on the up and up.
dfs provides even more ways to mitigate…pick different players the next week.

Season long / daily….it's all luck and gambling.

 
DK and FD got caught up in a classic "prisoners' dilemma" in their advertising. Econ and law professors should use their case as an example when teaching that concept.
True, but there was probably nothing they could have done about it (legally). If DK and FD had agreed with each other not to advertise so much ("if you don't, I won't"), that would have likely run afoul of antitrust laws.
They easily could have had backroom deals to control the amount of advertising content without worrying about antitrust. They'd have remained largely under the radar. Plus there's a ton of DFS sites and only these two jackass sites were so shortsighted and greedy that they killed their own golden goose. The owners could have made so much money if they'd have just played this cool and controlled. Dummies.

 
Yeah but they were getting lots of venture money coming in too, and those types of investors demand growth.
Did that venture money want them to sink the entire ship? They were/would have gotten plenty of growth without the onslaught of ads that will ultimately cause their demise.

 
I'm not apologizing for anybody. They thought they had that nice little back room exemption the league(s) had carved out for fantasy and they thought they were going to the moon.

ETA: And they would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids.

 
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Doesn't matter where the servers are.
I read about this a while back, didn't bump this and try to continue. There's some agreement or understanding that they will not be a place for shady businesses or criminals to run to. It does read to me like the gov't couldn't do squat if a DFS site was on Native American land but at the same time they would never do this and risk triggering a disagreement with the federal gov't. Some of their policing laws seemed to reassure the gov't as they weeded out some troublemakers years ago. 

As far as server location, from what I can tell, every time the poker sites followed the gov'ts laws or parameters, they changed em' to make them illegal again. It seems to me they allowed poker sites to have a workaround by putting their servers in a foreign country until the Dotcom guy got all boisterous and antagonized the gov't with his pirated music. When they changed the laws to get him, they seemed to re-use them to go after poker sites servers in foreign countries too.

I read an article where a guy was writing about prostitution, prohibition, gambling (sale of gold too IIRC) and how the gov't about harassed people rewriting any law to drive them out of every corner of the US until it just suddenly hits a point where the gov't says enough is enough, let's not push this anymore- a 'make nice' point.A point where it goes from OMG you evil criminal type get out of here, and it became 'fine but just do it over there and follow these laws we have.'

I wonder if DFS companies will meet requirements and then have them changed up and have to readjust and readjust until a make nice point.

 
In my opinion there's a big difference between DFS and season long fantasy. I can't put my finger on how to explain it and like many have tried and failed to.

I think it's similar to a coach(on Sunday, not monday thru saturday) and GM in football(during the offseason). The coach is playing matchups. This pitcher can strike out every left handed batter and this left handed batter could be batting 1.000 the last two days. Someone will lose that matchup. A red hot shooter in hoops versus a great shot blocker. Football is full of one on one matchups, we often like to discuss CB vs WR or LT vs DE. 

There's a different feel to managing 20 guys for three months versus pick 10 of 300 guys for DFS.

I don't know how, I haven't a solution, but I think there is something there. As people go before congress or state gov't to discuss the differences, I wonder if calling us "fantasy coaches" and "fantasy GMs" might be more illustrative to someone just learning what DFS and FF are.

I'm not the one to belittle Bellichick's accomplishments or Lebeau's or whomever but maybe they take this tangent- how they play a game of chance thinking ODB can get open on Revis and before a game we're predicting the same thing. 

BB is stuck with his roster. He can't start Julio in week two if he doesn't like his WR matchup and get Leveon to run against a tough D. 

Anyway, I think it must be real difficult to describe the difference between season long FF and DFS and  there might be something here and someone would have to roll forward with these discrepancies to make it work. Only the start of an idea

 
For an industry that so heavily markets towards young 20 something guys, I want to know where these dudes are getting the money to play (and lose, likely) because everything I read about the economy is that for young males entering the workplace, the job outlook sucks as a whole.

Shouldn't these dudes be moving out of their parent's basements and getting their own health insurance and phone plans before tossing in on this?

I say all that in a tongue-in-cheek fashion but it does go to support LawFitz's thoughts, somewhat. A get rich quick carrot dangling over young men who it aggressively markets towards is a recipe in the making for people making very poor financial decisions and getting sucked into gambling issues very young in life.
Ha ha.......yep, the mobile phone industry follows the same strategy doesn't it. Has everyone over 10 and their mothers convinced that they can't do without a $500 phone and a $200 per month plan. What a freakin' crock  :^ /

 

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