DFS Scandals in E.F.F.E.C.T (2 Viewers)

[Mr. Irrelevant]

"Here’s why you didn’t win that daily-fantasy contest"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/09/04/heres-why-you-didnt-win-that-daily-fantasy-contest/

"Namely, it’s because daily fantasy’s biggest players enter thousands of contests each day. Miller and Singer write that one DraftKings player who goes by the name maxdalury enters nearly every MLB contest offered on the site, and enters them every day. Plus, the sharps enter each contest more than once — dozens or hundreds of times — further lessening the chances of the recreational player."

Yes, and when you think about it, this explains exactly why FD / DK have become so relentless with their advertising this season.

Any gambling game involving high total stakes invariably attracts sharks. The sharks feast on the fish until (a) they've won all the money and/or (b) the fish tire of being eaten and swim away. At that point, the sharks have no one to feed on, and the game dries up. It has been ever thus since the dawn of recorded history.

DFS sites aren't stupid. They know full well this behavior is rampant, and I'm sure they ran the numbers and realized that at the rate the sharks were winning, their existing player populations weren't adequate - the fish were all going to get eaten too quickly and that beautiful fountain of vig would vanish into cyberspace. Ah, but if they could triple, quadruple, sextuple the population of fish ... why, that might push the date of reckoning out years into the future, and all the while the vig could continue to flow.

That's why you can't turn on ESPN or visit a fantasy sports website without seeing spam from these guys. The sharks gotta eat, yo.

 

[Steve Tasker]

That's the funny thing about these sites. I don't find them morally offensive. I find the amount of advertising offensive and THAT'S why I wanna see the industry crumble.

I don't really see how it's any different than other gambling. Just a different type. Not morally offensive to me at all. I just hate the ### #### commercials and blatant product placement on shows like The League. Give it a rest, guys.

 

[Soulfly3]

Thank funk up here in Canada the DFS commercials get pulled from the air... We never see them.

We get to play... and gambling here is way more lax it seems (poker etc)...

But we dont get the commercials, and we cant even download the apps from the play store.

God bless you, Canada

 

[MattFancy]

How can anyone play on these sites now and not thinking there is something shady going on?

 

[RUSF18]

If winning in DFS was so easy--how do you think they can afford to be on every commercial on every network at every moment of the day? Sure--a few of you will respond to this post saying "I've won..blah blah blah"--and there are only two realities to this. 1) you are in a very select minority--so good for you or 2) you are lying. With that being said--if one chooses to play DFS--don't do it for money--do it for the sake of entertainment. Give yourself a set budget that you are willing to use in the name of entertainment--and if you win--congrats. If you lose--hopefully you had fun playing.

The rest of your post was very valid but just to take this for a second...they make money because of the rake. They win because someone is always losing. I know there are overlays but the rake even on the 50/50s adds up big time.

 

[Reaper]

Lol these sites are "screwed" now.

Gonna be a lineup of lawyers ready to take a stab at this, then congress steps in

Praying this all goes down after i win my Million at the Playboy Mansion.....

 

[IndyHavoc]

If you have a balance at these sites, get it out now.

This. Did this about 3 days ago when the storm clouds started brewing.

 

[Apple Jack]

The pearl clutching here is gold.

 

[Da Gildz]

Didn't see this thread and been posting in the one that is in the DFS forum. Here are some links that have some interesting reading.



Here is a link with more info about PetrGibbons (fanduel employee playing on draftkings and KILLING it in only 5 months): https://dfsreport.co...anduel-mishaps/ . Would not be shocked if this guy is trading data with Ethan



Here are just a few of the reddit threads:



https://www.reddit.c...idences_in_dfs/

https://www.reddit.c...blic_statement/

https://www.reddit.c..._im_ok_with_it/



And from this morning: An analysis of Ethan's winnings on Fanduel. http://larrybrownspo...-profile/276741



Rotogrinders thread with the discussion: https://rotogrinders.com/threads/draftkings-ownership-leak-850584?page=55

Wow that LarryBrown article really paints a bad picture here. I would agree with some of the posters above, if u have a decent amt of $ sitting on either site, I'd get it off ASAP.

This has Poker's "Black Friday" written all over it.

 

[Fantasysports1]

Over reaction

These are for GPP mainly

To be successful in DFS for large majority you have to be able to win the cash games consistently.No one is stopping you from being able to win in the cash games. Sure there probably is lineup sharing and a lot of info out there on who to pick in cash games, etc but you still control your success. There are people who win the cash games consistently and who make a living primary off the cash games. Most of you guys aren't going to finish high in a large GPP anyway.

 

[Da Gildz]

Over reaction

These are for GPP mainly

To be successful in DFS for large majority you have to be able to win the cash games consistently.No one is stopping you from being able to win in the cash games. Sure there probably is lineup sharing and a lot of info out there on who to pick in cash games, etc but you still control your success. There are people who win the cash games consistently and who make a living primary off the cash games. Most of you guys aren't going to finish high in a large GPP anyway.

[ ] relevant at all.

To minimize this is silly. Any breach no matter how big or small is going to be a monumental issue. Let alone something like this that completely opens up the possibility of every tournament run on both sites being corrupted.

Skill or lack thereof is completely irrelevant. It's legitimate or it's not legitimate. Don't know how anyone can read that LarryBrown article and think this isn't the end of daily fantasy.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Over reaction

These are for GPP mainly

To be successful in DFS for large majority you have to be able to win the cash games consistently.No one is stopping you from being able to win in the cash games. Sure there probably is lineup sharing and a lot of info out there on who to pick in cash games, etc but you still control your success. There are people who win the cash games consistently and who make a living primary off the cash games. Most of you guys aren't going to finish high in a large GPP anyway.

[ ] relevant at all.

To minimize this is silly. Any breach no matter how big or small is going to be a monumental issue. Let alone something like this that completely opens up the possibility of every tournament run on both sites being corrupted.

Skill or lack thereof is completely irrelevant. It's legitimate or it's not legitimate. Don't know how anyone can read that LarryBrown article and think this isn't the end of daily fantasy.

just stop with the commericals. I doubt its going to go away

 

[MattFancy]

Over reaction

These are for GPP mainly

To be successful in DFS for large majority you have to be able to win the cash games consistently.No one is stopping you from being able to win in the cash games. Sure there probably is lineup sharing and a lot of info out there on who to pick in cash games, etc but you still control your success. There are people who win the cash games consistently and who make a living primary off the cash games. Most of you guys aren't going to finish high in a large GPP anyway.

I really think you work for one of these sites or are just a complete sheep. You're always quick to defend DFS in any thread.

 

[Fantasysports1]

How are people that are casual DFS players or who don't play know what is really the business? Any serious DFS player shares most of my viewpoints. It is like asking a random guy who doesn't play what he thinks. A losing player will still be a losing player and a winning player will still be a winning player no matter what this separate situation entails.

I don't really know what happened, I don't know if the employee used the ownership percentages when entering tournaments on another site. It is an advantage but it isn't hard to figure out how much certain players are owned in a tournament. It is an advantage but even for Thurs start slates, you can see ownership percentages in tournaments on FD which can be used to estimate ownership percentages on any other site for the Sunday contests.

 

[Gadabout]

I'd imagine that info only affects the folks playing in the big money GPPs, H2H's and 50/50's. Us poor kids playing $1 and $2 at a time have nothing to worry about.

 

[infantsam]

<<casual user -threw $200 in this year

It's fun - but once you get more than a few games going it's more like work/luck and hard to follow. Too much time invested for sure.

It's hard to win - easy to lose (duh)

I'm roughly even and debating just getting my $$ out. This 'news' which of course is no surprise might sway me. (And it should but I'll prolly hang on for a lottery like play here and there)

 

[Da Gildz]

How are people that are casual DFS players or who don't play know what is really the business? Any serious DFS player shares most of my viewpoints. It is like asking a random guy who doesn't play what he thinks. A losing player will still be a losing player and a winning player will still be a winning player no matter what this separate situation entails.

I don't really know what happened, I don't know if the employee used the ownership percentages when entering tournaments on another site. It is an advantage but it isn't hard to figure out how much certain players are owned in a tournament. It is an advantage but even for Thurs start slates, you can see ownership percentages in tournaments on FD which can be used to estimate ownership percentages on any other site for the Sunday contests.

I play. Or played I should say. Didn't win big but didn't lose much either. Dabbled here and there. But I played mostly tournaments and this scandal will end it for me for sure. Estimating ownership and 'knowing' it are very different things. Who knows how far stretched this even goes. You're telling me this tool couldn't sell this info or give it to his friends who then they can sell it to whomever. You're really minimizing this for some reason. Not sure why. It's no different then multi-accounting in online poker tournaments. Actually worse, you have info no one else is privy to. Multi accounting in poker, you have no knowledge edge at least.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

As the money got bigger the sharks got greedier. This was all too predictable, sharks are already plotting their exit strategy. This rigged game was nothing more than an elaborate three card Monty. Hopefully, the government launches an independent investigation and shuts them all down. This is not innocent fun among fellow football fans for beer money. This is co-mingling of honest money with slick, greedy, nefarious wall street con artists. Good riddance to them all, and their awful spam commercials. If a product annoys me, just on that premise alone, I don't patronize. DFS ads are so intrusive in the football broadcast, so damn annoying, why doesn't everyone take a stand and just boycott them out of spite and principle? Those of you who make small money off these sites, would you not be willing to donate it to this cause by simply cashing out and closing accounts? Aren't you all sick enough of seeing this endless waves of spam on your TV, and in your banners? When is enough, enough? JFC, shut em down, now!

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

yeah this will be my last year playing, I got ~$50 in draftkings, Ill probably wager it all this week and see what happens

 

[Bojang0301]

How are people that are casual DFS players or who don't play know what is really the business? Any serious DFS player shares most of my viewpoints. It is like asking a random guy who doesn't play what he thinks. A losing player will still be a losing player and a winning player will still be a winning player no matter what this separate situation entails.

I don't really know what happened, I don't know if the employee used the ownership percentages when entering tournaments on another site. It is an advantage but it isn't hard to figure out how much certain players are owned in a tournament. It is an advantage but even for Thurs start slates, you can see ownership percentages in tournaments on FD which can be used to estimate ownership percentages on any other site for the Sunday contests.

Assuming that they can't use probabilities to beat the system is foolish. Not saying they'll win all the time but I have 0 doubts that the algorithm they have can predict what lineups have the highest probability of success given the cap. Saying that because someone doesn't invest heavily and therefore doesn't understand is a trivial thought process. I don't gamble heavily on lines either but I can gather that sports books arnt just pulling lines from thin air.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Way over blown controversy that will be used by some to hurt an industry they don't like...........

 

[Soulfly3]

Played a good amount last year, and this year, sat out completely.

I just didnt find it fun, really. Tho, Im the guy who plays in 2 leagues w the same buddies from highschool for the past 100000yrs... Playing w strangers does nothing for me.

I dont have a horse in this race, and is DFS survives, it wouldnt affect me in any way.

But this type of stuff basically ensures Ill never go back

 

[Soulfly3]

Way over blown controversy that will be used by some to hurt an industry they don't like...........

Not true.... Well, Im sure it is to a point.

I like the idea of DFS. Played it. Have no issue at all with it.

But this is a HUGE issue, and could be the straw that broke the camel's back... Uncle Sam is gonna come a knocking

 

[freeannyong]

Way over blown controversy that will be used by some to hurt an industry they don't like...........

Yeah a guy cheating to win millions is overblown :eyeroll:

 

[Skoo]

Way over blown controversy that will be used by some to hurt an industry they don't like...........

Yeah, DK employee releases ownership numbers early, happens to get EXTREMELY lucky that same week and wins $350,000 on FD. Nothing to see here.

 

[Jack White]

I love the people that don't play claim this should be illegal. If you don't play why do you care?

I fight for the common man. Plus, the ads are really annoying.

Ridiculous.

The "common man" can decide for himself whether he wants to play these games or not.

It's a strictly voluntary activity.

 

[ponchsox]

I've been playing a few weekly cash games each on FanDuel but I'm pulling my money out this week. #### them.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

To each his own. If you dont like it, nobody is forcing you to play it. Personally, I like the idea that I can wager $25-$100 per week with the chance of turning it into a fortune by using knowledge that I actually spend time refining. So the sharks put 1000 entires into the tournament...how different is that really to me then 1000 people putting separate entires in? Its still me vs 1000 other entries regardless. I get that it allows them to diversify lineups a bit more than it would likely be if it were 1000 individual players, but the odds remain 1000 to one regardless. My one lineup has as much of a chance to win as any one of their 1000 - especially since my lineup is entered after lots of research (most of which I would have done anyway for my dynasty league). They invest $25,000...I invest $25. They should have a better chance to win than me! They also have a much better chance of losing...and a lot more than $25.

I dont buy the computer program nonsense. I do my homework. I know who sucks at defending the pass. I know who has a beat up OL. I know who is not 100% healthy. I can get a sense for what the weather is going to be like. Our brains are our computers, and the data is on your computer screen ready for you to enter it. Algorithm, schmalgorithm.

I dont understand why people - especially people on these boards who obviously love fantasy sports, and gambling on fantasy sports - would have such strong positions against these sites. They are so much fun to those of us who play them! So the ads are annoying...BFD. Have a conversation with someone during the commercials instead of watching them. And by all means...dont try investing $25 to win a million if you are so offended by the concept. But why do you care if I do?

 

[Apple Jack]

I've been playing a few weekly cash games each on FanDuel but I'm pulling my money out this week. #### them.

They help you pad your threads started count and this is how you repay them?

 

[cvnpoka]

I hope all DFS is banned just like online poker. It's gambling

I wouldn't say either one is gambling. They're games of skill that involve a strong element of chance and variance.

A good poker player will always win in the long run if he's better than his competition, so it isn't really gambling. The same is probably true for DFS.

Problem is that both ventures attract naive folks with loose wallets and poor impulse control, who go in beyond their depth and then lack the discipline to pull themselves away from the table. I like to play cards, but the "poker world" is so seedy and attracts some of the worst humans walking the Earth. The game itself is beautiful, but it creates problems and that's part of the reason why it has been stigmatized.

Both are clearly gambling. Allowing for skill does not nullify that.

 

[cockroach]

As the money got bigger the sharks got greedier. This was all too predictable, sharks are already plotting their exit strategy. This rigged game was nothing more than an elaborate three card Monty. Hopefully, the government launches an independent investigation and shuts them all down. This is not innocent fun among fellow football fans for beer money. This is co-mingling of honest money with slick, greedy, nefarious wall street con artists. Good riddance to them all, and their awful spam commercials. If a product annoys me, just on that premise alone, I don't patronize. DFS ads are so intrusive in the football broadcast, so damn annoying, why doesn't everyone take a stand and just boycott them out of spite and principle? Those of you who make small money off these sites, would you not be willing to donate it to this cause by simply cashing out and closing accounts? Aren't you all sick enough of seeing this endless waves of spam on your TV, and in your banners? When is enough, enough? JFC, shut em down, now!

That's a first rate queso dip!

 

[TheFanatic]

I hate both DFS companies for nothing else because they pollute NFL games with their Spam ads. $200 free cash, enter this promo code...blah blah blah...and there's a million suckers born every minute. I hope the entire industry chokes on bubble and everyone who invested in this shady business loses their shirt.

This. You know it has to be shady since they are going so hard on the ads. I even think it is dubious that FBGs has jumped so hard pimping this up. The $200 is ludicrous. Nobody is giving away $200 for free unless they are sure you are going to lose more than double that in the long run.

Exactly. Basically the more money a company spends on advertising, generally the worse the product is for you.

 

[Plorfu]

I dont buy the computer program nonsense. I do my homework. I know who sucks at defending the pass. I know who has a beat up OL. I know who is not 100% healthy. I can get a sense for what the weather is going to be like. Our brains are our computers, and the data is on your computer screen ready for you to enter it. Algorithm, schmalgorithm.

?

:hawkscreech:

 

[Jack White]

Also, for those of you complaining about the ads:

If you don't like them, don't consume the FREE media in which they appear.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I hate both DFS companies for nothing else because they pollute NFL games with their Spam ads. $200 free cash, enter this promo code...blah blah blah...and there's a million suckers born every minute. I hope the entire industry chokes on bubble and everyone who invested in this shady business loses their shirt.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I hate both DFS companies for nothing else because they pollute NFL games with their Spam ads. $200 free cash, enter this promo code...blah blah blah...and there's a million suckers born every minute. I hope the entire industry chokes on bubble and everyone who invested in this shady business loses their shirt.

Agreed. There's even a 30 minute infomercial now. Someone make it stop please.

With the Barber twins no less. Now if it was with the Barbie twins...

 

[bagger]

Both companies are considered to be "unicorns" with valuation in excess of $1B. I'm sure they both have big IPO plans.

there is a huge private equity bubble with all of these private companies valued absurdly higher than their actual worth.It is going to end very poorly for the investors of these DFS sites.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Also, for those of you complaining about the ads:

If you don't like them, don't consume the FREE media in which they appear.

I can't play due to the state I live in. Why should I have to see the adds?

 

[bagger]

Also, for those of you complaining about the ads:

If you don't like them, don't consume the FREE media in which they appear.

i don't have to pay for my monthly directv bill anymore? Sweet!

 

[Jack White]

Also, for those of you complaining about the ads:

If you don't like them, don't consume the FREE media in which they appear.

I can't play due to the state I live in. Why should I have to see the adds?

Because the ads allow you to watch the games on free network television.

 

[bagger]

I love the people that don't play claim this should be illegal. If you don't play why do you care?

I fight for the common man. Plus, the ads are really annoying.

Ridiculous.

The "common man" can decide for himself whether he wants to play these games or not.

It's a strictly voluntary activity.

this is true. However there should also be disclosures that people out there are running bots and scripts entering thousands of lineups with a click of a button. They are extremely misleading in their advertising that it's just a bunch of average joes playing against each other like in your local year long fantasy league. There are professional sharks and the slew of advertising is just to chum the water.

 

[Jack White]

Also, for those of you complaining about the ads:

If you don't like them, don't consume the FREE media in which they appear.

i don't have to pay for my monthly directv bill anymore? Sweet!

No, you don't have to pay your DirecTV bill.

You choose to pay it.

 

[bagger]

Also, for those of you complaining about the ads:

If you don't like them, don't consume the FREE media in which they appear.

i don't have to pay for my monthly directv bill anymore? Sweet!

No, you don't have to pay your DirecTV bill.

You choose to pay it.

thank you for proving my point.

 

[bagger]

To each his own. If you dont like it, nobody is forcing you to play it. Personally, I like the idea that I can wager $25-$100 per week with the chance of turning it into a fortune by using knowledge that I actually spend time refining. So the sharks put 1000 entires into the tournament...how different is that really to me then 1000 people putting separate entires in? Its still me vs 1000 other entries regardless. I get that it allows them to diversify lineups a bit more than it would likely be if it were 1000 individual players, but the odds remain 1000 to one regardless. My one lineup has as much of a chance to win as any one of their 1000 - especially since my lineup is entered after lots of research (most of which I would have done anyway for my dynasty league). They invest $25,000...I invest $25. They should have a better chance to win than me! They also have a much better chance of losing...and a lot more than $25.

I dont buy the computer program nonsense. I do my homework. I know who sucks at defending the pass. I know who has a beat up OL. I know who is not 100% healthy. I can get a sense for what the weather is going to be like. Our brains are our computers, and the data is on your computer screen ready for you to enter it. Algorithm, schmalgorithm.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

To each his own. If you dont like it, nobody is forcing you to play it. Personally, I like the idea that I can wager $25-$100 per week with the chance of turning it into a fortune by using knowledge that I actually spend time refining. So the sharks put 1000 entires into the tournament...how different is that really to me then 1000 people putting separate entires in? Its still me vs 1000 other entries regardless. I get that it allows them to diversify lineups a bit more than it would likely be if it were 1000 individual players, but the odds remain 1000 to one regardless. My one lineup has as much of a chance to win as any one of their 1000 - especially since my lineup is entered after lots of research (most of which I would have done anyway for my dynasty league). They invest $25,000...I invest $25. They should have a better chance to win than me! They also have a much better chance of losing...and a lot more than $25.

I dont buy the computer program nonsense. I do my homework. I know who sucks at defending the pass. I know who has a beat up OL. I know who is not 100% healthy. I can get a sense for what the weather is going to be like. Our brains are our computers, and the data is on your computer screen ready for you to enter it. Algorithm, schmalgorithm.

You are welcome to your own opinions about my guppy status, but I won $3K on a $25 bet. I will be playing with house money for years, even if I never win again.

 

[flc735]

$200 isn't handed to you at the start. They disperse it out as you play more games and pay more vig. Think of it as free vig until that amount is used up.

 

[Jack White]

I love the people that don't play claim this should be illegal. If you don't play why do you care?

I fight for the common man. Plus, the ads are really annoying.

Ridiculous.

The "common man" can decide for himself whether he wants to play these games or not.

It's a strictly voluntary activity.

this is true. However there should also be disclosures that people out there are running bots and scripts entering thousands of lineups with a click of a button. They are extremely misleading in their advertising that it's just a bunch of average joes playing against each other like in your local year long fantasy league. There are professional sharks and the slew of advertising is just to chum the water.

I agree. There was a piece on Bryant Gumball's Real Sports last year about DFS and how there are pros who have an unfair advantage.

Haven't played since.

 

[Jack White]

Also, for those of you complaining about the ads:

If you don't like them, don't consume the FREE media in which they appear.

i don't have to pay for my monthly directv bill anymore? Sweet!

No, you don't have to pay your DirecTV bill.

You choose to pay it.

thank you for proving my point.

I think I proved that you're pretty clueless about how the media works and why you can watch games without paying for them.

Paying for DirecTV is something entirely different.

 

[Fantasysports1]

I hate both DFS companies for nothing else because they pollute NFL games with their Spam ads. $200 free cash, enter this promo code...blah blah blah...and there's a million suckers born every minute. I hope the entire industry chokes on bubble and everyone who invested in this shady business loses their shirt.

This. You know it has to be shady since they are going so hard on the ads. I even think it is dubious that FBGs has jumped so hard pimping this up. The $200 is ludicrous. Nobody is giving away $200 for free unless they are sure you are going to lose more than double that in the long run.

Just because they spam ads does not mean it is shady.

$200 is nothing when it means they have your deposit of $200. Also it takes a while like 4% to get it all. Most people lose because the DFS sites take the rake. Most people cannot win enough to profit after the rake.

The real key is whether you can keep winning the cash games long after you clear your bonus.

 

[flc735]

The argument against the daily sites isn't adding up to me. Unless they start putting in lineups after the games are played, you can't really cheat the system.

You can in theory hack the system and see the poker cards a player is dealt. You can't do anything to see the stats a player will put up until the game is played.

I know I am going up against computer created teams and that is fine with me. I am better at making a lineup than an algo is. Obviously, I will lose when I am up against 1,000 algo or real Player teams and that is why I only play h2h or h2h2h games.

I put $25 in DK and am now up to $175 playing h2h2h games. I'll keep playing until I stop making money. It's easy and more importantly, it's fun. The enjoyment I get playing daily is well worth the small deposit I put in.