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Dice are in the air! FBG Backgammon is LIVE (3 Viewers)

I am reading through Paul Magriel's NYT columns from the late 70s and most of the time he gets it right but here's one where, with the benefit of analysis by Xtreme Gammon, Magriel suggests a play worth a double blunder.  

 
@johnnycakes sorry I just turned you down but I'm waiting for Cletius to play our match.

 
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Joe Mammy said:
@johnnycakes sorry I just turned you down but I'm waiting for Cletius to play our match.
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sorry man - just sent you a message.  I got slammed at work today, completely forgot about our match.  I won't be home for a while tonight.  Please check the message and get back to me on timing.

 
Joe Mammy said:
Cletius and I just played this match:

https://backgammongalaxy.com/analysis/match-review/7189078

He timed out in game 4 giving me the match 5-4. I was trailing 4-2 going into game 4. I cannot see where the time setting is within the notes and analysis. I may have set the time to normal instead of casual but I'm not sure. 

I'll be happy to replay. Just wondering what the commish thinks?
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Ask Cletius to confirm the settings.  I think if it was normal time, you need to replay.  If it was casual, then you're fine.  

Do you remember how much time was on the clock when you started?  15 minutes (casual setting for a 5-point match) seems like a lot to burn through.

 
chet said:
Ask Cletius to confirm the settings.  I think if it was normal time, you need to replay.  If it was casual, then you're fine.  

Do you remember how much time was on the clock when you started?  15 minutes (casual setting for a 5-point match) seems like a lot to burn through.
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Cletius says he's never had clock issues before. I cannot see where the clock setting is anywhere going back in the analysis. I'll be happy to restart from scratch, technically I won the match until someone can show me the time setting saying I screwed it up on the initial setup. 

Cletius wants to restart at 4-2. The game we were in was a Crawford match to further complicate things and I was a slight 50-49 favorite. 

Whatever you guys think I'll roll with, and the commish needs to make the final call.

 
Joe Mammy said:
Cletius says he's never had clock issues before. I cannot see where the clock setting is anywhere going back in the analysis. I'll be happy to restart from scratch, technically I won the match until someone can show me the time setting saying I screwed it up on the initial setup. 

Cletius wants to restart at 4-2. The game we were in was a Crawford match to further complicate things and I was a slight 50-49 favorite. 

Whatever you guys think I'll roll with, and the commish needs to make the final call.
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Here's my thoughts.  Both of you made mistakes.  JoeMammy didn't set the clock correctly and Cletius let the clock run out.  

My recommendation is to replay the match starting at 0-0.  However, I am open to other opinions.

 
culdeus said:
Sorry. Had a very unexpected death of a close friend. Haven't been on much as we moved thru this the last couple days.  I ancipiate being pretty open at anytime tomorrow. 
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Very sorry for your loss.  Take care of business at home and LMK what works for you--no pressure.

 
Backgammon controversy!! 
 

Please explain how the cloak works. Is it total time or a per game clock? I’ve never given it a thought or even looked at the clock. When I timed out, we were midway through our 4th game after about 30 minutes total of play time. 
 

Three blistering 2 point games had us at 4-2. Great game so far.  

 
chet said:
Here's my thoughts.  Both of you made mistakes.  JoeMammy didn't set the clock correctly and Cletius let the clock run out.  

My recommendation is to replay the match starting at 0-0.  However, I am open to other opinions.
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There is no proof of my mistake although it is possible I set it at normal. I know this tourney is casual time. When I play there otherwise I typically set normal invites. Due to the delay in start time and a steady stream of libations I may have erred on the initial time setting although I cannot find any evidence. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Backgammon controversy!! 
 

Please explain how the cloak works. Is it total time or a per game clock? I’ve never given it a thought or even looked at the clock. When I timed out, we were midway through our 4th game after about 30 minutes total of play time. 
 

Three blistering 2 point games had us at 4-2. Great game so far.  
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In casual, each move gets 15s.  In addition, you're allowed a reserve of 3 min/point (in a 5-point match that is 15 minutes per player).  The 15-minute clock starts counting down after the 15 s clock on your move expires.  If your 15 minute clock expires, you lose.

In normal time, the time per move is 10s and the clock is 1 minute/point--or a total of 5 additional minutes per player in a 5-point match.

 
Joe Mammy said:
There is no proof of my mistake although it is possible I set it at normal. I know this tourney is casual time. When I play there otherwise I typically set normal invites. Due to the delay in start time and a steady stream of libations I may have erred on the initial time setting although I cannot find any evidence. 
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I agree there's no proof but in my experience, it'd be really tough to run out of time with a 15 minute clock.  That being said, as a player, you need to be cognizant of the clock and hence my recommendation of a new match.  

I am not trying to create controversy but just trying to make a fair ruling.

 
chet said:
I agree there's no proof but in my experience, it'd be really tough to run out of time with a 15 minute clock.  That being said, as a player, you need to be cognizant of the clock and hence my recommendation of a new match.  

I am not trying to create controversy but just trying to make a fair ruling.
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Understood. Even in the downloaded file it does not state the time setting or the start/end time. 
Cletius can name the next tee up time.

 
There is no way you had casual time set. You would know without a doubt that you sat waiting for 15 minutes + 15 seconds everytime before the clock started for him to move. That would be a brutally painful slow game. 

 
A little dirty math says it would take at a minimum of 1 hour of real time to time out in that game, barring just walking away from the table for 15 minutes at one stretch. 

 
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I assume differential is the tie break, right? If so, I think my meager performance is enough to get me into bracket play. 

 
Joe Mammy said:
chet said:
I agree there's no proof but in my experience, it'd be really tough to run out of time with a 15 minute clock.  That being said, as a player, you need to be cognizant of the clock and hence my recommendation of a new match.  

I am not trying to create controversy but just trying to make a fair ruling.
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Understood. Even in the downloaded file it does not state the time setting or the start/end time. 
Cletius can name the next tee up time.
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I'll accept Chet's ruling and am fine just playing a new match from scratch - tomorrow looks pretty good for me.  I prefer it if you've got a few drinks in you once again as those were some good games. J-Mammy is the most aggressive opponent I've played so far, which makes for some fun backgammon.

 
Anyone want to play a 25er for a buck a point let me know. The last time I'll spend Paddy's day at home. I have Black Bush and Guinness in my IV.

 
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I was just looking through the spreadsheet and noticed every match was scored with a "5" in the winner position. The match I just played with CM was 2-2 but I gammoned him with the cube on 2 to win 6-2 although the final match score was 5-2 according to Galaxy. Just wondering if I'm scoring correctly and if point/win differential will be a tie breaker?

 
Joe Mammy said:
I was just looking through the spreadsheet and noticed every match was scored with a "5" in the winner position. The match I just played with CM was 2-2 but I gammoned him with the cube on 2 to win 6-2 although the final match score was 5-2 according to Galaxy. Just wondering if I'm scoring correctly and if point/win differential will be a tie breaker?
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Backgammon Galaxy only reports it as 5, so that's what we've been going with.  Others would have won Post Crawford doubles and ended at 6 (or more).

 
kardplayer said:
Backgammon Galaxy only reports it as 5, so that's what we've been going with.  Others would have won Post Crawford doubles and ended at 6 (or more).
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Also, at 3-2, you clinched Top 8.  Will have 3 or 4 tied for last 2 spots (3 if chet wins, 4 if culdeus wins)

 
I watched the movie “Sound of Metal” the other day and the name of the metal band was “Blackgammon” which I found very silly.

Thought the movie was great though.

 
Joe Mammy said:
I was just looking through the spreadsheet and noticed every match was scored with a "5" in the winner position. The match I just played with CM was 2-2 but I gammoned him with the cube on 2 to win 6-2 although the final match score was 5-2 according to Galaxy. Just wondering if I'm scoring correctly and if point/win differential will be a tie breaker?
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In matches to 5, you can only acquire 5-points.  That wrinkle makes for some very interesting strategy decisions based on match score.  Here's a link to Kit Woolsey's seminal paper on cube and checker strategy at every score in a 5-point match.

 
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kardplayer said:
I don't think chet ever ruled on that one.
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I think we’ve all just been assuming seeding and tie breaking is based on differential.  Which means we already know the 8 playoff players we just don’t know the exact seeding.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I watched the movie “Sound of Metal” the other day and the name of the metal band was “Blackgammon” which I found very silly.

Thought the movie was great though.
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When my kids were young, they thought blackgammon, Dark Vader, jail walking and chess ponds were all real things.  I may have forgotten one or two others.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I think we’ve all just been assuming seeding and tie breaking is based on differential.  Which means we already know the 8 playoff players we just don’t know the exact seeding.
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I don't think point differential is a good tie breaker but I don't have an alternative.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
If it was a two-way tie it would be cool to do a one-point play-in game.  But this is gonna be a 3 or 4 way tie.
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If it's only responsible for seeding and not who makes the elimination round, I can live with it.  If some miss the next round because of point differential, I think we should think of an alternative.

 
chet said:
If it's only responsible for seeding and not who makes the elimination round, I can live with it.  If some miss the next round because of point differential, I think we should think of an alternative.
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It won't just be seeding. You currently have 3 people tied for the last 2 spots with the potential for 1 more. The assumption someone above made on seeding was based on the fact that those that hadn't finished couldn't catch up on differential. 

 
Given there's no head to head sweeps amongst the tied players, I think the two options are point differential or play-in tourny.

If you want to go with a play-in tourny:

If it is three players, you could have Iguana play Cletius, winner is in as #7, loser plays bostonfred with the winner of that getting #8.

If it is four players, I think you go The Iguana vs. bostonfred (as fred will either have the worst differential or a tie for worst), and Cletius vs. culdeus.

Tough call between the two:  on one hand, differential is how round robins like the world cup resolve ties.  On the other hand, we came here to play, and so why not play a little more?

 
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