Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree a thread on Wadley may turn out useful and good to have some back story on a player before they get touches.
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Dion Lewis (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ex-ghost
- Start date
Thanks. I agree and so do so many in this thread but the difficulty has been discussing how the Titans could limit his touches to keep him healthy. We can't seem to agree on anything there.
I think we will continue to discuss Wadley in Lewis' thread and Lewis in Henry's thread etc, but ok. I understand
The Titans have run a ton of two back sets. Vrabel has had a lot of gripes with the linebackers. It's not clear if this is the offense or he's testing the backers. At one point Taylor lined up to make it three backs. However the other days it's been two backs too. Many passes to backup runners not these two. Mariota has run often rather than throw short dump pass. Vrabel said he is not sure if he's ok with that and that Mariota is even faster in person. Called his game speed off the charts.
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OTAs went like this
Henry was the man. Lewis pressed. Wadley is now described as a kid at recess.
Day two, much of the same.
3 and 4th day, Lewis rocked. He said Wadley's carefree attitude reminded him of some things. Wadley had been told that he'd have been lit up if it wasn't no contact and this triggered something in Dion. He ran some of the same plays Wadley did but was surprising faster, quicker, and more smooth than the speedy rook.
If anything, he put Wadley in his place and put pressure on Henry.
"We" haven't had competition at RB since before CJ. Antonio Andrews beat out Sankey and Cobb because they stunk. This here, this is how things should be.
Not much in Wadley's favor but just that he gave Lewis a bit of juice to get rolling- that makes me feel good about things. Lewis looking so good that now Henry may have some concern...that's perfect. Let them all train a little harder to get ready for training camp.
The talk is still very much what I said earlier- they each have a role, a style, and some attribute(s) the team can utilize. I think the competition is in how much each player gets the rock.
PRESEASON
One valued reporter told me that Lewis is not expected to play much in preseason and neither is Henry. He expects them to get a taste then get pulled. Wadley should get most of the reps. Fluellen is playing more of a FB role and less RB and looking like the odd man out moreso than anything else. Jonnu Smith is easily the best at FB so Fluellen is really up against the wall with that development.
Vrabel has yet to genuinely give a preseason plan but he did say that some veterans could be put into situations he wants to see, then pulled. He is concerned of injuries.
Just a headsup to watch preseason with a grain of salt and stick more to TC reports
Henry was the man. Lewis pressed. Wadley is now described as a kid at recess.
Day two, much of the same.
3 and 4th day, Lewis rocked. He said Wadley's carefree attitude reminded him of some things. Wadley had been told that he'd have been lit up if it wasn't no contact and this triggered something in Dion. He ran some of the same plays Wadley did but was surprising faster, quicker, and more smooth than the speedy rook.
If anything, he put Wadley in his place and put pressure on Henry.
"We" haven't had competition at RB since before CJ. Antonio Andrews beat out Sankey and Cobb because they stunk. This here, this is how things should be.
Not much in Wadley's favor but just that he gave Lewis a bit of juice to get rolling- that makes me feel good about things. Lewis looking so good that now Henry may have some concern...that's perfect. Let them all train a little harder to get ready for training camp.
The talk is still very much what I said earlier- they each have a role, a style, and some attribute(s) the team can utilize. I think the competition is in how much each player gets the rock.
PRESEASON
One valued reporter told me that Lewis is not expected to play much in preseason and neither is Henry. He expects them to get a taste then get pulled. Wadley should get most of the reps. Fluellen is playing more of a FB role and less RB and looking like the odd man out moreso than anything else. Jonnu Smith is easily the best at FB so Fluellen is really up against the wall with that development.
Vrabel has yet to genuinely give a preseason plan but he did say that some veterans could be put into situations he wants to see, then pulled. He is concerned of injuries.
Just a headsup to watch preseason with a grain of salt and stick more to TC reports
bostonfred
Footballguy
Any update on your thoughts on Dion vs Henry?
My thought is still that the guy who looks like a change of pace and third down back getting work as a returner is consistent with him actually being a change of pace and third down back.
Twitter doesn't seem to show much positive about Dion as a titan since the pads went on. Search for Dion Lewis and it's mostly either pictures of Dion looking tiny next to Henry, or one of Lewis getting beat in pass pro. Search for Henry and there's some news about Henry catching more passes.
As a Henry owner in a standard league, I’m elated to hear he’s returning kicks. Lewis is very talented, but I don’t see him staying healthy for another grueling season
They only started tackling. Tonight is their Friday night lights scrimmage. That should offer some insight but I imagine Henry on one team and Lewis on the other. Still premature but I'm still strongly favoring Henry.
Kick returners usually get a hot hand in camp and we can guess who gets the nod.
Instagram and YouTube usually have videos of the scrimmage til the NFL and titans have them removed. Keep an eye out tonight.
The interior of the line is playing awful. Dion needs them to play well while Henry loves to run at Lewan. I'm not putting any stock into this. It's just that some have said a poor line favors Henry and poor interior too
Kick returners usually get a hot hand in camp and we can guess who gets the nod.
Instagram and YouTube usually have videos of the scrimmage til the NFL and titans have them removed. Keep an eye out tonight.
The interior of the line is playing awful. Dion needs them to play well while Henry loves to run at Lewan. I'm not putting any stock into this. It's just that some have said a poor line favors Henry and poor interior too
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tombonneau
Footballguy
Eh. Much ado about nothing, IMO. He was returning kicks for Pats last year and held down role of main back. Vrabel is a Hoodie Disciple and the Belichickean Prototype of versatility. So really shouldn't be too surprising that he is putting his best option back to return kicks.
Maybe so. I'm trying to be careful not to leap here. Adoree is the best option and Campanaro was signed to return kicks so it is a little hmmm to see him there. We'll see.
Dawkins and Wadley should be considered here too. Taylor was excellent last summer at returning but he muffed the catch too often. Maybe he gets another try. The goal is to not have teams kick away from Adoree and feel good about it
The scrimmage wasn't divided into two teams but offense versus defense and if the drive stalls, the defense "gets credit," if the offense scores...obviously they do. I was glad Vrabel continued this but wish he didn't change the format.
The backs-
The night started with talk of Jayon Brown being out as he didn't recover well from Henry smashing into him the day before in practice. Henry had essentially one drive as a runner and knocked a LB into the turf. It was at near the three yard line and there was no score, but they stopped the drive as if there was. The next drive he caught a couple passes, picked up the blitz, and didn't get a run. Maybe Vrabel got concerned of injuries to the D OR it was just like preseason where they're getting the work they needed and that's it. No one touched Mariota so Henry looked real good or "sound" as it was described to me.
Lewis didn't do well the first couple carries. A completion to Taylor gave them a new set of downs. It was like something clicked and he was excellent from that point on. He took some hard hits and Vrabel was yelling at him. After the second one, Vrabel yelled at him and then pointed hollering at Henry (who was on the sideline with his helmet off.) The guess is he should have gotten out of bounds rather than absorb a hit and he told Henry he better listen too. He held up 3 fingers and there were three defenders that laid into him near the sideline. Just a guess. Lewis caught a pass and turned Landry 360 degrees with a sweet move then stiff-armed Kruik...rookie safety for a big gain. Both of them are not ready for prime time and they sort of got a lesson as to why by Lewis.
After, Vrabel described both backs as having a job to do and they did it. He said that's very professional, that's professional. That's what we expect of everyone- get your job done.
Casey was not in for Lewis' carries and Vrabel said, "He's seen his fair share of Jurrell. (can't hear) everyone on the offense has"
Wadley was the best but the defense was also awful. Facing a largely UDFA and 4th string unit he probably averaged more than 10 yards per run and per catch. He had an 80 yard touchdown where he cut back and forth and used his blockers beautifully. He never took off ahead the whole time. Vrabel was besides himself loving the rook- at the end of the run, Vrabel was on the field pointing at it and just giddy. After that though, his anger toward the lack of D seemed to be his focus. Wadley did well picking up the blitz and Falk had his first good practice at QB.
After Vrabel said "pffff he had a night, didn't he?" As for the D, he said he would talk to them about it
Fluellen played FB with Henry and Lewis on a few plays and got some work at RB when both needed a breather. Surprise of the night was probably him being the one that made a beautiful one-handed grab. He's only ever been a decent pass catcher so...
Dawkins didn't play much. He took off for a long run against the same D as Wadley. He dropped a pass. He flattened Kalan Reed as he blitzed Falk. The thought was the Reed hit was Vrabel's cue that it was enough, let's not get anybody hurt. After, Vrabel somewhat confirmed this.
The fans really like how vocal Vrabel is. Some mocking him for not staying on the sideline but for the most part, him being all excitable and running out onto the field was real well received.
I haven't seen anything about returns so I don't know if they did them or just skipped it because of the format change. Some fans that missed the start of the long Wadley run seem to have thought it was a return
The backs-
The night started with talk of Jayon Brown being out as he didn't recover well from Henry smashing into him the day before in practice. Henry had essentially one drive as a runner and knocked a LB into the turf. It was at near the three yard line and there was no score, but they stopped the drive as if there was. The next drive he caught a couple passes, picked up the blitz, and didn't get a run. Maybe Vrabel got concerned of injuries to the D OR it was just like preseason where they're getting the work they needed and that's it. No one touched Mariota so Henry looked real good or "sound" as it was described to me.
Lewis didn't do well the first couple carries. A completion to Taylor gave them a new set of downs. It was like something clicked and he was excellent from that point on. He took some hard hits and Vrabel was yelling at him. After the second one, Vrabel yelled at him and then pointed hollering at Henry (who was on the sideline with his helmet off.) The guess is he should have gotten out of bounds rather than absorb a hit and he told Henry he better listen too. He held up 3 fingers and there were three defenders that laid into him near the sideline. Just a guess. Lewis caught a pass and turned Landry 360 degrees with a sweet move then stiff-armed Kruik...rookie safety for a big gain. Both of them are not ready for prime time and they sort of got a lesson as to why by Lewis.
After, Vrabel described both backs as having a job to do and they did it. He said that's very professional, that's professional. That's what we expect of everyone- get your job done.
Casey was not in for Lewis' carries and Vrabel said, "He's seen his fair share of Jurrell. (can't hear) everyone on the offense has"
Wadley was the best but the defense was also awful. Facing a largely UDFA and 4th string unit he probably averaged more than 10 yards per run and per catch. He had an 80 yard touchdown where he cut back and forth and used his blockers beautifully. He never took off ahead the whole time. Vrabel was besides himself loving the rook- at the end of the run, Vrabel was on the field pointing at it and just giddy. After that though, his anger toward the lack of D seemed to be his focus. Wadley did well picking up the blitz and Falk had his first good practice at QB.
After Vrabel said "pffff he had a night, didn't he?" As for the D, he said he would talk to them about it
Fluellen played FB with Henry and Lewis on a few plays and got some work at RB when both needed a breather. Surprise of the night was probably him being the one that made a beautiful one-handed grab. He's only ever been a decent pass catcher so...
Dawkins didn't play much. He took off for a long run against the same D as Wadley. He dropped a pass. He flattened Kalan Reed as he blitzed Falk. The thought was the Reed hit was Vrabel's cue that it was enough, let's not get anybody hurt. After, Vrabel somewhat confirmed this.
The fans really like how vocal Vrabel is. Some mocking him for not staying on the sideline but for the most part, him being all excitable and running out onto the field was real well received.
I haven't seen anything about returns so I don't know if they did them or just skipped it because of the format change. Some fans that missed the start of the long Wadley run seem to have thought it was a return
LaFleur mentioned how they realized Marcus' nervousness and comfort were based on the runningbacks. He thinks Marcus fixed his footwork issue and explained it's a common bad habit. When panicking, they rush their footwork and do it poorly. It's much better but still pops up now and then. When they execute play action well, when Dion picks up the blitz well, they noticed a more confident Mariota. He explained it's not rocket science but reporters keep asking which back will get the ball more and they might not make that decision based on how well they run. It may have more to do with Marcus' comfort.
Which back picks up the blitz better?
Technique? Lewis, but you knew that. Derrick's size gives him a distinct, a unique advantage. I don't think the staff would give either an edge here.
If Henry runs for (80? 180?couldn't quite hear) yards in the first but Marcus looks comfortable when Lewis picks up the blitz, Lewis will get the ball more?
If Henry runs well, Marcus will be plenty comfortable. I have no doubt. Nothing puts a quarterback at ease more than a successful run game.
So Henry first and second? Dion on third?
That's what teams expect and we're not trying to be predictable
Is exotic smashmouth dead then?
Oh no, oh definitely not. Look at Q, look at Taylor, even Delanie sometimes. Those guys love to hit someone and Mike and I...stopped himself .... well, no.
Exotic smashmouth doesn't suit Lewis? It's more for Henry
Says who?
What will Conklin bring when he returns? Have you seen anything on tape?
Of course. We're fortunate. Most people are aware we have two of the top tackles, what seems to be overlooked is how athletic they are. Their power suits Henry but their athleticism suits Dion's game. They do everything well and we need to utilize that. Like I said, we're fortunate.
Taylor (Lewan) is a character isn't he? Is he fun to coach?
He is. He goes full, he gets after it, but he's got a lighter side.
Have any Lewan stories then?
I think Mike told you this but (laughs) every time we started something new, since the first day, Taylor introduced himself as Dion Lewis, another time Delanie, even Corey. That day he said he was Corey, he went to the wide receiver drills. Wednesday, practice is about to start, the first practice, and he's kind of pushing Derrick. I turned my head and there's Henry at tackle and Lewan with his hand in the dirt as the single. I told him singles don't put their hand in the dirt and he went to his spot.
Will Lewan get any carries or catches this year?
Ya know Dion isn't much help with this, matter of fact. He keeps telling us to throw Taylor a bone and ...I don't think so, but you never know.
Which back picks up the blitz better?
Technique? Lewis, but you knew that. Derrick's size gives him a distinct, a unique advantage. I don't think the staff would give either an edge here.
If Henry runs for (80? 180?couldn't quite hear) yards in the first but Marcus looks comfortable when Lewis picks up the blitz, Lewis will get the ball more?
If Henry runs well, Marcus will be plenty comfortable. I have no doubt. Nothing puts a quarterback at ease more than a successful run game.
So Henry first and second? Dion on third?
That's what teams expect and we're not trying to be predictable
Is exotic smashmouth dead then?
Oh no, oh definitely not. Look at Q, look at Taylor, even Delanie sometimes. Those guys love to hit someone and Mike and I...stopped himself .... well, no.
Exotic smashmouth doesn't suit Lewis? It's more for Henry
Says who?
What will Conklin bring when he returns? Have you seen anything on tape?
Of course. We're fortunate. Most people are aware we have two of the top tackles, what seems to be overlooked is how athletic they are. Their power suits Henry but their athleticism suits Dion's game. They do everything well and we need to utilize that. Like I said, we're fortunate.
Taylor (Lewan) is a character isn't he? Is he fun to coach?
He is. He goes full, he gets after it, but he's got a lighter side.
Have any Lewan stories then?
I think Mike told you this but (laughs) every time we started something new, since the first day, Taylor introduced himself as Dion Lewis, another time Delanie, even Corey. That day he said he was Corey, he went to the wide receiver drills. Wednesday, practice is about to start, the first practice, and he's kind of pushing Derrick. I turned my head and there's Henry at tackle and Lewan with his hand in the dirt as the single. I told him singles don't put their hand in the dirt and he went to his spot.
Will Lewan get any carries or catches this year?
Ya know Dion isn't much help with this, matter of fact. He keeps telling us to throw Taylor a bone and ...I don't think so, but you never know.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
thecardiackid
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Lewis listed 1st on depth chart on rotoworld. Is he really starting?
tombonneau
Footballguy
I don't think it will really matter who starts the game. They both clearly will play and there will be games either is scripted out, either by game plan or situational strategy.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I have no idea. I was just surprised to see it.
I own both guys and have to start one of them (PPR). Frankly I have no clue which guy to go with
az_prof
Footballguy
I always check the team's own official page, which shows Henry as the RB1 and Lewis as RB2, FWIW:
https://www.titansonline.com/team/depth-chart
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
In standard the decision might be more difficult but I'd still go Lewis. In PPR this is kind of a no-brainer, Lewis saw 21% of the targets on Sunday.
Lewis played on 71% of the snaps, was utilized 24 times, was utilized in the RZ twice and saw 21% of the targets.
Henry played 29% of the snaps, was utilized 11 times, was utilized in the RZ once and saw 3% of the targets.
I understand the gamescript argument but with the way TEN played on Sunday how often do you see Vegas favoring them this year?
az_prof
Footballguy
I never said it did. I was responding to someone who said Lewis was the starter, which he isn't. Figuring out what player is more valuable in differnet formats is a whole different question. I play in PPR and have both.
FWIW, here is how I see it based on week 1. Henry will start and if the team is effective he will continue to get lots of touches. If the team falls behind and needs to pass, Lewis will get lots of looks. So using either guy is going to be game/situation dependent. I still like Henry better because Lewis tends to get nicked up when that happens, Henry will be a monster. But if you drafted Henry to be your RB1 or RB2 then you can expect some inconsistent production as long as Lewis is healthy and especially if the D is as bad as it was. In TD heavy leagues Henry is better; in PPR leagues Lewis is, but with the injury caveat.
ponchsox
Footballguy
I think the Titans will struggle this year and trail in a lot of games. Mariota is horrible, and the defense is suspect at best.
thecardiackid
Footballguy
Based on the ADP, Lewis is the play.
Cant see TN closing out many games w a comfortable lead in the 2nd with henry. Both should be rb2ish w weekly upside if marcus gets his #### together.
And now delanie is done...
Cant see TN closing out many games w a comfortable lead in the 2nd with henry. Both should be rb2ish w weekly upside if marcus gets his #### together.
And now delanie is done...
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Actually, you responded to a guy asking who he should start in PPR. It was written exactly that way in the text you quoted from him initially.az_prof said:
That said, 100% agree with your take.
thecardiackid
Footballguy
Regardless of which side youre on here, and i liked Lewis' adp a lot better, shouldnt we all be more concerned about mariotta?
Anyone know when their LT is due back?
Anyone know when their LT is due back?
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think it's just the confusing nomanclature of the NFL.
Coaches talk about 3rd-down backs as passing down backs. Passing downs are 2/3rds of NFL plays. So if a third down back is in on passing downs and the end of half's then they should get most of the snaps.
"Two down" backs usually means means 1st down back, short yardage back, and salt-the-game-away back. They may get 50% of the RUNS, but I don't think they get 50% of the touches or snaps. If Henry continues to look like he did on Sunday, and Lewis continues to look like he did on Sunday you can call them whatever you want. Or claim you are just playing the hot hand. I'll take Lewis until I see different.
Steel Curtainrod
Footballguy
All I know is that Lewis isn't Thompson or Woodhead; he's an actual '3 down' RB that is going to(no logical reason to believe otherwise) get carries AND the majority of the RB passing work until he gets injured. You can frame it up however you'd like, but we've already seen one game and I'd be encouraged.
zamboni
Footballguy
What are the thoughts on Lewis’s prospects this Sunday?
He outplayed and outtouched Henry by quite a bit, but Henry still lurks as a big part/the hammer of the running game and the team may want to take pressure of Mariota (or Gabbert) in a tough matchup.
On the other hand, the team will be missing their two starting OTs, so maybe that results in a lot of dump offs to Lewis.
Thoughts?
He outplayed and outtouched Henry by quite a bit, but Henry still lurks as a big part/the hammer of the running game and the team may want to take pressure of Mariota (or Gabbert) in a tough matchup.
On the other hand, the team will be missing their two starting OTs, so maybe that results in a lot of dump offs to Lewis.
Thoughts?
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Part of me thinks this game will be a microcosm of the whole season.
Vrabel feels embarrassed about Henry's usage last week, so he will have him get almost all the touches early, to make it clear that he's the boss. (Almost Hugh Jackson-style). Unfortunately, with the starting tackles out there won't be enough room for Henry to build steam and break free. Additionally, Mariota looks like crap, and the defense is awful. I mean, Miami was borderline good against them. So this team will fall behind early, pass the ball a ton in the 2nd half, and Lewis will get most of the work when the team is in catch up mode.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
If this team sucks, like it really looks like they do, game script will favor Lewis in a major way.
az_prof
Footballguy
they're down 3 tackles. The talent is definitely there, thus far it's coaching. I expect a loss this week. How do you beat Clowney and Watt down 3 tackles? I'm gonna give them a mulligan for this week but Vrabel and LaFleur could really show me something this week.
There's no doubt they're very talented. There is in how coaches use that talent. Last year Robiske used a 1950s offense with the WRs inline next to the TE and now we're onto a whole new staff that struggled week one.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
I think the same. Just know that ever since Watt, the Titans have purposely had many runs for 1 yard or no yards. You gotta run at him often enough that he can't pin his ears back every down.
I think we'll see both in the backfield together and while everyone is excited to see what Jonnu can do, he is the only one that did well as the fill-in FB. On some plays he has to help with Watt or Clowney as a FB or inline TE.
Another thing is while I respect the two Texans DL (and Mercilus who has been a HOFer against the Titans) they haven't been their great selves lately. Down 3 tackles, I'm not expecting anything good for the Titans, but ...idk where I was going with this. They just aren't as awesome as they were is all. I hope this game doesn't awaken those beasts
So what are we thinking about Lewis this week? As of right now, I have him in over Lindsay (standard scoring), but I'm not totally set.
And for the record, I'm done trying to predict a "Lewis game" vs. a "Henry game". We don't know what the Titans' game plan will be, and I'm also not totally sure he's guaranteed a ton of passing-down work. We know from his breakout season in 2015 that he's a dynamic receiver, but I haven't really seen him used that way since then. No idea if the ACL tear removed some of his explosiveness or what (to his credit, he's a much better between-the-tackles runner than what he showed during that season, so go figure). But I definitely miss this guy.
And for the record, I'm done trying to predict a "Lewis game" vs. a "Henry game". We don't know what the Titans' game plan will be, and I'm also not totally sure he's guaranteed a ton of passing-down work. We know from his breakout season in 2015 that he's a dynamic receiver, but I haven't really seen him used that way since then. No idea if the ACL tear removed some of his explosiveness or what (to his credit, he's a much better between-the-tackles runner than what he showed during that season, so go figure). But I definitely miss this guy.
zamboni
Footballguy
I agree that a concern is his lack of use in the passing game, although it's only been two games. I haven't seen any games, but going off the game logs, it seems like the team has been rotating the two RBs on drives rather than situations. A positive is that Lewis has seen been automatically pulled at the goal line, however scarce they have been so far.zftcg said:
Even in NE last year, he was doing great things on the ground but not used nearly as much in the passing game. Maybe that was just because of White, although when White replaced him in 2015 it was a definite downgrade.
Anyway, I'm not drawing any conclusions. But it's something I've noticed over the past couple years and I'm genuinely mystified.
For our purposes, the important thing is not to let their sizes deceive you into assuming Henry is automatically the two-down banger and Lewis is the scatback. It may turn out to be the case, but it's not consistent with their usage so far.
zamboni
Footballguy
I think his passing game usage last year was indeed due more to the fact that White is just so good at that aspect of the game, not necessarily a slight against Lewis. As of now, Mariota hasn't checked down to the RBs nearly as much as Brady does, but maybe that will change.
I love Dion; I think he's a quality and exciting RB. He's kind of like a good luck charm (my other one used to be Frank Gore). Anyway, production and usage means he buried on my bench. I need to cover byes at other positions over the next week or so.
Question: would you drop him? Why or why not?
(non-ppr, have Zeke, Howard, Mixon, Ekeler)
Question: would you drop him? Why or why not?
(non-ppr, have Zeke, Howard, Mixon, Ekeler)
Skoo
Footballguy
The bolded makes all the difference IMO. He got dropped in my 12-team PPR league this week, and I'm actually thinking about burning my #1 priority to get him. But that's because I figure in PPR he should at least be a flex or bye week fill-in as the season goes on. And even that is just me being hopeful he gets used in the passing game more.
In standard, I don't see why he can't be dropped if you need the room. From the looks of it you'll never be starting him anyway, depending on your starting roster requirements.
