the problem is the schools does not want to tell the parents that they have convinced Johnny to be called Joanie,
all the while lying to the parents that is what they are actively doing.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Disney self-government status (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The General
- Start date
all the while lying to the parents that is what they are actively doing.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This is where I think it would be helpful if people said specifically what they had in mind when they talk about "accepting trans people" or somesuch.
In practical, day-to-day terms, I already accept trans people. What I mean by that is that I'm happy to use whatever name they go by, I'll use she/her or him/his pronouns as they feel appropriate (I struggle with non-standard pronouns but that's mainly an age thing and only like 10% me being difficult), and I don't care at all if adults transition in whatever manner they choose. I'm a little skeptical about transition among minors, but I'm not opposed to it either -- I just don't feel like I know enough to have a strong opinion either way. Use whatever bathroom you want.
I don't agree with you on women's sports, but it's such a trivial topic that I hate to make a big thing out of it.
The place where I substantively disagree with trans rights activists is that I totally reject their philosophy of gender. There's nothing personal about it, but it would be very difficult to talk me into accepting the worldview that undergirds their understanding of categories like "male/female" and "man/woman" and so on.
But so what? Everybody is entitled to my forbearance. Nobody is entitled to my approval. This seems like a pretty good position to me.
jm192
Footballguy
I think parents are allowed to decide when to expose their kids to certain ideas.
I struggle with the idea that an 8 or 9 year old can know that they're the wrong gender. Maybe in some cases. In other cases, it will be a phase. And sure, medical professionals should evaluate these situations.
But I'm not ready to say "Jacob identifies as a girl, so now every 3rd grader has to have an education on trans-gender people."
moleculo
Footballguy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
jm192
Footballguy
Sure.
But can't shield doesn't equate to "We need formal education in the 3rd grade."
jm192
Footballguy
I don't think a 3rd grader waking up and thinking they're the opposite gender should automatically mean anything. Kids think they're dinosaurs and aliens in the 3rd grade. While I'm not arguing for a lack of compassion, I'm also not in favor of the idea that a kid can know they're the wrong gender at 8 years old.
I think there has to be a ton of evaluation that goes into saying "this kid has gender dysphoria." I'm not sure that begins and ends in the 3rd grade. And so I struggle with the idea that 8 years old's need to be taught this.
I'm not sure where the cut off is. I'm not sure where the cut off is even being proposed. I didn't sign up to make these decisions. But I certainly understand people's concerns about these things being dropped on 3rd graders with limited capacity to understand.
moleculo
Footballguy
Fair enough. What happens if Johnny comes to school and says his mom is now his dad? Or, Mrs Smith is now Mr Smith?
jm192
Footballguy
Hopefully any parent actively undergoing a change would explain it to the kids and not rely on the school.
moleculo
Footballguy
jm192
Footballguy
I'm not sure what 1 kid's parents are doing with their lives requires the school to spend time on it.
1 kid has two gay fathers for parents. Do we educate the kids in the 3rd grade about being gay? And sexuality?
1 kid has an alcoholic father. Do we do formal education on alcoholism?
1 kid's dad beats his mom. Domestic abuse education?
1 kid's dad is in jail for murder.
On and on. I think you'd agree there is a line to be drawn at some point. Why is gender dysphoria the special thing that we need to stop and educate 8 year old kids on?
"Well but that kid is going to talk about it and the other kids are going to have questions." Great. Parents can answer questions.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Same. It wouldn't have occurred to me that this would be an issue that the school needs to address. Some other kid's parent's gender identity is none of my business.
The Commish
Footballguy
I can't find a source anywhere (not either on or directly linked to the Governor's staff) that thinks there is any legal way for the state to make Disney pay this bond debt from RC. The laws would have to be changed in order for it to happen. I'm sure that will happen and I'm sure the "you need to calm down, it's not that big of a deal" / "you're playing right into his hand" guys will be here to tell us how we do indeed need to calm down and it's really not a big deal and the only thing we are doing by pointing it out is playing right into his hands 
Disney-strategy-is-to-stay-silent-to-soften-florida-gov-ron-desantiss-blow
- Political win for DeSantis
- Disney to stay out of politics
- Other companies take notes
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Mission accomplished. DeSantis didn't particularly care about Reedy Creek, which is why he never acted on it before this past month. He just wanted to figure out a way to bring Disney to heel.Whyatt said:
It boggles my mind that the conservatives who are constantly warning about the "destruction of freedom" by an overweening government don't see the danger in using the powers of the state to punish corporations.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Government overreach to punish speech at the expense of higher taxes for locals. What could be more conservative then that?
The Commish
Footballguy
Meh....there's really nothing to say about this until the "I told you so" part at the end where either nothing happens or the tax payers are left holding the bill. I'm not exactly sure what people think Disney should be saying right now.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
I'm not sure I would even classify this as a "Free Speech" issue to begin with.
However, I'm going to throw this out there and say that liberals probably should just stay mum on the whole Free Speech issue considering their track record on it (which isn't good). They've been on an assault of the 1st for quite some time now.
The Commish
Footballguy
You should read more of this thread...this phenomena is not unique to "the left".....two sides, same coin. It's crystal clear that neither "side" here is all that interested in the First Amendment unless it benefits them.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Seems like a fair assessment.
Probably can be said for most things - "we will pass and do things that benefit us and our team".
Last edited by a moderator:
sho nuff
Footballguy
What do we think the reaction would have been from conservatives if the GA government went after Chick Fil A for their previous political stances?
The Commish
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This actually happened.sho nuff said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/chick-fil-banned-second-airport-two-weeks-n991016
Politicians sure do want those donations.belljr said:
And with those donations, they may be able to convince politicians that something like Disney self government is mutually beneficial to the state and the company. Or lets be real, maybe just beneficial to the company.
What was Disney's interest in opposing the "Don't say gay" legislation?
The Commish
Footballguy
Their primary issue was being used as a specific example in the sister bill of what companies weren't allowed to include in their diversity training.
While that may be true, that detail was not included in the Disney Statement. Isn't that what DeSantis and Co. responded to?
The following statement may be attributed to a spokesperson for The Walt Disney Company:
“Florida’s HB 1557, also known as the ‘Don’t Say Gay’ bill, should never have passed and should never have been signed into law. Our goal as a company is for this law to be repealed by the legislature or struck down in the courts, and we remain committed to supporting the national and state organizations working to achieve that. We are dedicated to standing up for the rights and safety of LGBTQ+ members of the Disney family, as well as the LGBTQ+ community in Florida and across the country.”
The Commish
Footballguy
You asked what their interest was in opposing the bill right? There were two....one that deals with what businesses are aloud to do where they called out Disney specifically and one that deals with what schools are allowed to do. Knowing three things:
1. The make up of their employee pool.
2. Being called out specifically in legislation.
3. Knowing the adverse effects the laws on schools can have on kids
It's rather easy to surmise what their interest was, no? Initially, I thought the question was kind of rhetorical, but maybe not. They had already raised objection for being called out in the sister bill....what's the next step? Seems like raising objection to the sister bill.
Last edited by a moderator:
Traditionally, corporate/government relations are handled in private, not via press release. As you likely are aware, all larger companies have government relations departments which handle this stuff.
It is up to Disney to decide what their interests are and to prioritize them. Usually it's about advancing the business. In this case, while Disney hasn't explicitly said so, their subsequent actions imply they regret the approach on this one.
Basically the DeSantis/legislature response was, "Ok Disney you want to jump into politics, lets have at it". DeSantis appears to have benefited politically, Disney appears to have blinked.
It's way too early to conclude who won. If local taxpayers have to pay more, it will be a loss for DeSantis. When did Disney blink?
The Commish
Footballguy
Normally, I'd agree. Traditionally, state legislatures keep specific companies out of their laws too. There is nothing about this that was traditional from that lens. It all began to go wrong with that legislation. That's where the feud started.
I'm not sure what "subsequent actions" you are referring to, but it's rather clear there isn't much here for them to say with respect to RC. The state is either going to yank this district out from under them and dump it on the tax payers or the state is going to flagrantly change the law to avoid that causing a massive lawsuit by Disney and the district against the state. There's nothing for Disney to do/say until the state decides what to do next.
Honestly, I don't see the residents/businesses in the district voting to go along with the state, so all this is moot anyway in my view, but if they somehow DO vote to disband it, the above paths are what are ahead of them. In one scenario Disney is off the hook (other than to have to abide by all the county/city/state rules around zoning, permitting etc). The other scenario the state is going to have to explain how they are changing the rules mid game.
Last edited by a moderator:
Van Dyman
Footballguy
Is Disney actually "jump[ing] into politics" here? I thought I read that Disney helped a bunch of those FL GOP politicians get elected. Seems like Disney was already involved in FL politics.
The Commish
Footballguy
Had commented in the other thread, I thought this was odd to go directly to federal court before it was ever officially law. Looks like I wasn't all that off.
Lawsuit thrown out by federal judge
This is going to be interesting to watch. Should be noted, the guy filing the lawsuit is one running against Rubio for his Senate seat. Always felt like a publicity stunt.
Wow. I still think Disney will maintain control, we will see.
Link
(Bloomberg) -- Florida Governor Ron DeSantis said on Monday that control of Walt Disney Co.’s special government district would likely go to the state and not local governments if it’s dissolved next year.
“After seeing them threatening to raise taxes on their citizens, we are not going to be in a situation where we’re just going to be giving them, locally control,” he said during a press briefing when asked about the possibility of property taxes rising as a result. “More likely that the state will simply assume control and make sure that we’re able to impose the law and make sure we’re collecting the taxes.”......
Link
(Bloomberg) -- Florida Governor Ron DeSantis said on Monday that control of Walt Disney Co.’s special government district would likely go to the state and not local governments if it’s dissolved next year.
“After seeing them threatening to raise taxes on their citizens, we are not going to be in a situation where we’re just going to be giving them, locally control,” he said during a press briefing when asked about the possibility of property taxes rising as a result. “More likely that the state will simply assume control and make sure that we’re able to impose the law and make sure we’re collecting the taxes.”......
The Commish
Footballguy
I love how following the law as written is "threatening to raise taxes on their citizens"
Ron dug a whole that he's going to have to pay his way out of. If the Dems can't capitalize on this layup fiasco, there really IS no help for them.
They are going to have to rewrite the law in order to do what is claimed in this article and it will STILL be the state seizing land from counties. I'll be SHOCKED if the residents and landowners sign off on dismantling in the first place, but I guess the state can just rewrite the law there too. At this point, Ron's in a no win situation. Probably should have read the laws and how these districts work before flying off the handle.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I suspect the goal all along was to smack them down for daring to wade into politics in a way that he didn't approve of, and then magnanimously keep the special district once they had been brought to heel. The problem seems to be that Disney's lawyers very quickly realized he was bluffing, so they've been quietly biding their time knowing he would have a hard time actually following through.I love how following the law as written is "threatening to raise taxes on their citizens"
Ron dug a whole that he's going to have to pay his way out of. If the Dems can't capitalize on this layup fiasco, there really IS no help for them.
They are going to have to rewrite the law in order to do what is claimed in this article and it will STILL be the state seizing land from counties. I'll be SHOCKED if the residents and landowners sign off on dismantling in the first place, but I guess the state can just rewrite the law there too. At this point, Ron's in a no win situation. Probably should have read the laws and how these districts work before flying off the handle.
The Commish
Footballguy
There's nothing for them to do at this point until Ron makes his move. There are three scenarios here:
1. It doesn't happen.
2. It happens under the current law effectively screwing the taxpayers of the area because that's what's required under the law.
3. It happens ONLY AFTER he's had the legislature change the law which would then spend years in court trying to get resolved and the district goes on as is until resolved.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Again, you're assuming DeSantis' end goal here is to win the underlying dispute over Reedy Creek. If this gets tied up in court for years, but in the meantime Disney's leadership feels like they have to avoid weighing into any political disputes so that they don't jeopardize their chances of winning the lawsuit, that's a win for him.
The Commish
Footballguy
That's not happening.....Disney presence was all over the protests here this last weekend
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
That's an encouraging sign. Hopefully it means they feel secure enough in their position that they can stand up to his efforts at bullying.That's not happening.....Disney presence was all over the protests here this last weekend
The Commish
Footballguy
They still have a large presence in all the environmental stuff up here too. I haven't noticed any meaningful "silence" out of them on any of the things they've been involved with honestly. On this topic, there's not really much for them to say until the ball is back in their court. We were down in Disney Springs (lord help me) Sunday and people were down there actively protesting this RC issue as well as the KKK showing up at the entrance to MK.
Similar threads
