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Do you believe aliens exist? (1 Viewer)

Probably tons of species spread throughout the universe. Problem is we are so far apart we'll never meet each other. If they are like mankind they will destroy themselves with petty infighting before advancing enough to even begin to try to solve the problem of traveling such awesome distances.

 
Jayrod said:
Big jump there.  They have no idea of the composition of these planets.  They have no idea about atmospheric composition (a HUGE issue) and actual surface temperatures or even if there is water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets

"However, the question of what makes a planet habitable is much more complex than having a planet located at the right distance from its host star so that water can be liquid on its surface: various geophysical and geodynamical aspects, the radiation, and the host stars plasma environment can influence the evolution of planets and life, if it originated."
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One could also theorize over non organic life forms (water- carbon based) and whether we would recognize them as life

But I agree that the number of intelligent species range from 1 to a gazillion (assuming we consoder ourselves intelligent)

 
Fat Nick said:
Yes.  If you believe in math, it's hard to deny that there isn't intelligent life out there somewhere.

Drake Equation - Pretty much any reasonable input still leads to life due to the sheer number of stars.

N = R * fp * ne * fl * fi * fc * L

where:
N = The number of broadcasting civilizations.
R = Average rate of formation of suitable stars (stars/year) in the Milky Way galaxy
fp = Fraction of stars that form planets
ne = Average number of habitable planets per star
fl = Fraction of habitable planets (ne) where life emerges
fi = Fraction of habitable planets with life where intelligent evolves
fc = Fraction of planets with intelligent life capable of interstellar communication
L = Years a civilization remains detectable
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I think you forgot to carry the 1.

 
"Exist" is a loaded word, imo.

Existed, will exist - seem almost a certainty.  Currently exists may have drastically lower odds.

 
“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”

 
I believe there are other life forms out there.  Seems like some would be more advanced and some would be less advanced.  We will never meet up due to the incredible vastness of the universe. 

 
Jayrod said:
I agree with all of that except I probably disagree with the actual final number.  The variable "fl" is a major key, IMO, and the biggest leap in logic many in here are making.

If this is zero, your equation equals zero. That number could even be so low as to render all of the other numbers meaningless.  We have no idea how life comes from non-life.  Just to assume that because of "ne" you will get "fl" makes a logical jump that has no scientific answer other than "because life exists here".

Also the number of "ne" is likely very, very, very low if you take into account the probability of life even being stable on this planet.

Since the universe is not actually infinite, there is a very real possibility we are it.
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I get your point in general.  Fl is the wildcard.  It can't be zero or we wouldn't be having this conversation.  It has to be something - and even then, I think unless you're a 100% Earth-only creationist, you have to assign a value to it.  

One of the key take-aways of the Drake equation is that when you asked a variety of people with a variety of different beliefs their estimates on the "non-quantifiable" inputs (i.e. Fl, Fi, Fc, and L), most any estimates outside of an Earth-only-creationist model yielded something, and that "something," no matter how small, was overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of R, Fp, and even to some extent Ne.

Basically, there are so many stars out there that unless you truly think earth is unique due to divine intervention, it's almost silly to think our combination of circumstances couldn't have happened somewhere else.

 
Scoresman said:
You're assuming all intelligent life has the same requirements as humans.  I mean they recently found alien bacteria on the outside of the ISS.   The conditions for other forms of life can be very different from ours.  There's really no reason to believe we're just a one time accident 
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Incorrect.

https://www.popsci.com/alien-bacteria-international-space-station

Look, I get the passion to be proven correct and that would have been a huge deal.  But until it is a fact, this whole high degree of certainty about there being alien life is more hopes and dreams than facts and science. 

Science is supposed to be about finding the truth, not meeting an anti-religion agenda.  If we stick to that, I'm fine.  When it becomes a mission of hopefulness and conjecture we run into problems.  I know it seems hypocritical for a religious person to speak about keeping an open mind, but the opposite is equally as hypocritical.  I've tried to expand my mind to comprehend the possibility that there is no God, however, I have yet to find anything that disproves that.  If alien life is found, I will be doing some serious soul searching about what I believe which is why I am so interested in this subject.  That said, I'm waiting for actual proof, not guesses or formulas with no actual numbers or early declarations of "facts" that aren't actually so.

 
Fat Nick said:
I get your point in general.  Fl is the wildcard.  It can't be zero or we wouldn't be having this conversation.  It has to be something - and even then, I think unless you're a 100% Earth-only creationist, you have to assign a value to it.  

One of the key take-aways of the Drake equation is that when you asked a variety of people with a variety of different beliefs their estimates on the "non-quantifiable" inputs (i.e. Fl, Fi, Fc, and L), most any estimates outside of an Earth-only-creationist model yielded something, and that "something," no matter how small, was overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of R, Fp, and even to some extent Ne.

Basically, there are so many stars out there that unless you truly think earth is unique due to divine intervention, it's almost silly to think our combination of circumstances couldn't have happened somewhere else.
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I do and I understand those that don't, but it is still a possibility.

There are actually a lot of possibilities about us being unique that goes beyond a creative being and ultimately many may settle on some other explanation if we continue to look and look and never find anything.  When you consider how little we understand about other dimensions, space-time, quantum physics, etc., there are more possibilities than "either aliens exist or God".

 
Scoresman said:
Because we don't know the "formula". 

The point is that the universe is so freakin' huge, this formula has probably repeated X number of times.  
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Personally, I find it more interesting to try and find the formula here on Planet Earth then doing a wild goose chase through space.  If we can hone in on life forming conditions, it might yield better results than "ooh, a planet that looks like Earth"

 
I find it very hard to believe that we are the only living creatures out there. With that said, who knows what form(s) other life takes in the vast universe.

 
Jayrod said:
I do and I understand those that don't, but it is still a possibility.

There are actually a lot of possibilities about us being unique that goes beyond a creative being and ultimately many may settle on some other explanation if we continue to look and look and never find anything.  When you consider how little we understand about other dimensions, space-time, quantum physics, etc., there are more possibilities than "either aliens exist or God".
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I agree there are a lot of possibilities - I agree that there is still a lot we don't know about other dimensions, space-time, Cosmological concepts in general that are difficult or impossible to test due to size or time requirements...but there's a lot we do know about our natural world here on earth that I think is applicable as a good parallel.  I think we understand here on earth that "life" is very adaptable.  It lives on earth, on water, in the air...in geothermal vents, in the most traditionally inhospitable places imaginable.  If you're not a creationist, that has to carry some weight.  Life doesn't necessarily have to have this tiny window of perfect conditions to exist.

Like you, but with the opposite view, I'm not a creationist, but I understand and appreciate those who are...I especially appreciate those who let diverse opinions exist.  I guess my challenge is that for ME personally, not being a creationist, it's nearly impossible to ignore the size of the universe, and the adaptability of life here on earth when considering alien life.  In my eyes, there is nothing scientifically so unique about earth that would lead to us being the only life in those trillions on quadrillions of stars.  Maybe nobody has contacted us because we're the farthest along.  Maybe "alien life" isn't already in outer-space looking for us.  Maybe WE'RE the higher-life forms that all the other planets are waiting for, and we're just not there yet.  The "aliens" on Andromeda C5 (making that up) may just be learning that you can bang one rock against another and make a sound right about now...Somebody has to be "first," and at some point, even those in "first" weren't capable of overcoming the massive distances that exist within our universe.

 
can you brohans even imagine how awesome bandy would sound playing in a star wars cantina holy crap that would be sweet as hell take that to the bank bromigos 

 
We are simply some science experiment within another universe's Large Hadron Collider, trying to understand the origins of their universe.

 
Brony said:
Then why do we have such a difficult time simulating life formation under various experimental conditions 
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Because it's probably one of the most difficult problems science could ever tackle. Creating life from non-life isn't exactly like making a science fair volcano.

 
Jayrod said:
Incorrect.

https://www.popsci.com/alien-bacteria-international-space-station

Look, I get the passion to be proven correct and that would have been a huge deal.  But until it is a fact, this whole high degree of certainty about there being alien life is more hopes and dreams than facts and science. 

Science is supposed to be about finding the truth, not meeting an anti-religion agenda.  If we stick to that, I'm fine.  When it becomes a mission of hopefulness and conjecture we run into problems.  I know it seems hypocritical for a religious person to speak about keeping an open mind, but the opposite is equally as hypocritical.  I've tried to expand my mind to comprehend the possibility that there is no God, however, I have yet to find anything that disproves that.  If alien life is found, I will be doing some serious soul searching about what I believe which is why I am so interested in this subject.  That said, I'm waiting for actual proof, not guesses or formulas with no actual numbers or early declarations of "facts" that aren't actually so.
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Yes, I'm sure the desire to make the greatest scientific discovery in history is motivated by the desire to say "In your face!" to Father McGillicuddy.

 
NASA, peering out with telescopes built by people from a previous generation. People much smarter, much more driven than the current crop of NASA global warming alarmists.

After looking at the data produced by the telescopes, they retire with their islamist friends and ask allah to provide them a vehicle to get to those planets to spread islam, as they have long since lost the capability to build rockets.

Obama smiles.

 
Jayrod said:
Incorrect.

https://www.popsci.com/alien-bacteria-international-space-station

Look, I get the passion to be proven correct and that would have been a huge deal.  But until it is a fact, this whole high degree of certainty about there being alien life is more hopes and dreams than facts and science. 

Science is supposed to be about finding the truth, not meeting an anti-religion agenda.  If we stick to that, I'm fine.  When it becomes a mission of hopefulness and conjecture we run into problems.  I know it seems hypocritical for a religious person to speak about keeping an open mind, but the opposite is equally as hypocritical.  I've tried to expand my mind to comprehend the possibility that there is no God, however, I have yet to find anything that disproves that.  If alien life is found, I will be doing some serious soul searching about what I believe which is why I am so interested in this subject.  That said, I'm waiting for actual proof, not guesses or formulas with no actual numbers or early declarations of "facts" that aren't actually so.
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It seems rather ironic that a religious person is critical of others for relying on hopes and dreams.  I suspect you believe in an afterlife and heaven?  Is that not a product of hope?  I agree that science is not, and should not be, about hopes and dreams which is exactly why the issue of God's existence is outside the realm of science.  I find it interesting that you require proof in order to accept the existence of life beyond Earth but choose to believe in a God because he can't be disproved.    Can you disprove alien life?  It seems to me there is an inconsistency in this line of thinking.  Anyway, I doubt the OP was looking to start another religious thread, but these discussions always seem to lead there.

 
Galileo said:
It seems rather ironic that a religious person is critical of others for relying on hopes and dreams.  I suspect you believe in an afterlife and heaven?  Is that not a product of hope?  I agree that science is not, and should not be, about hopes and dreams which is exactly why the issue of God's existence is outside the realm of science.  I find it interesting that you require proof in order to accept the existence of life beyond Earth but choose to believe in a God because he can't be disproved.    Can you disprove alien life?  It seems to me there is an inconsistency in this line of thinking.  Anyway, I doubt the OP was looking to start another religious thread, but these discussions always seem to lead there.
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Oh, please. Don't try to enter reason into a discussion about the Universe. Clearly a statement in a book, written by iron age peopple, heavily redacted centuries ago in another language (that is now dead) trumps all logic and reason

 
Todem said:
Of course there is other highly intelligent life beyond our solar system. Probably hundreds upon hundreds of other worlds and races in the universe.

Are we alone in our solar system? Yeah probably.
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Our solar system is pretty small in the grand scheme

 
Brony said:
What if radio signals are the cans and string  of intergalactic communications?  . We might be wasting our time 
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The point was... it's unlikely aliens will have heard us and come visit, because what we have done that could be heard has gone a minuscule distance so far.

They probably would have had to have been staking out the Earth before we evolved to have even noticed us yet. 

 
GregR said:
The point was... it's unlikely aliens will have heard us and come visit, because what we have done that could be heard has gone a minuscule distance so far.

They probably would have had to have been staking out the Earth before we evolved to have even noticed us yet. 
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The Monolith!

Wait, that was a book, right?

 
msommer said:
Oh, please. Don't try to enter reason into a discussion about the Universe. Clearly a statement in a book, written by iron age peopple, heavily redacted centuries ago in another language (that is now dead) trumps all logic and reason
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Yes by all means, let’s slam someone’s beliefs instead  :rolleyes:

Can we not muck up an otherwise good discussion with anti-religious agenda? You have a man of faith saying he is open to the idea but it would shake his beliefs to the core if it happened, how’s about we have a big boy discussion about all the possibilities before you start trashing someone’s belief system because it disagrees with yours?

For all the “be excellent to one another” stuff this place bases everything on, the religious intolerance in some of these threads really get to me sometimes.

 
beer 30 said:
Yes by all means, let’s slam someone’s beliefs instead  :rolleyes:

Can we not muck up an otherwise good discussion with a nti  religious agenda?
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FYP

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Alex Jones is pimping supplements so they don’t infect me.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
(CNN)A former Pentagon official who led a recently revealed government program to research potential UFOs said Monday evening that he believes there is evidence of alien life reaching Earth.

"My personal belief is that there is very compelling evidence that we may not be alone," Luis Elizondo said in an interview on CNN's "Erin Burnett OutFront."

A pair of news reports in The New York Times and Politico over the weekend said the effort, the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program, was begun largely at the behest of then-Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, who helped shore up funding for it after speaking to a friend and political donor who owns an aerospace company and has said he believes in the existence of aliens.

Elizondo told The New York Times he resigned from the Department of Defense in October in protest over what he called excessive secrecy surrounding the program and internal opposition to it after funding for the effort ended in 2012.

Elizondo said Monday that he could not speak on behalf of the government, but he strongly implied there was evidence that stopped him from ruling out the possibility that alien aircraft visited Earth.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/luis-elizondo-ufo-pentagon/index.html
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