super sleeper
Footballguy
He wouldn't get very far in most leagues. People would see through this charade by the second time he did it.
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Do you have this owner in your league? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rockalum
- Start date
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pollardsvision
Footballguy
if an owner offered me kyle freakin' orton for chris johnson, i would not waste time with further negotiations either. i would assume he thought i was an idiot and/or only wanted to rip me off.
RenegadeGM
Footballguy
Lowball offers are what they are, and it is easy to simply reject them and move on.
What bugs me more than that (and I only say "bug", as in it isn't worth getting totally PO'd over) is when the other owner attaches a note to the offer that points out all the risks and flaws in the players he's trying to acquire, while pointing out how the outlook for each player you'd be getting is bright and sunny. Yes, I know selling your end of the deal is part of the whole process, but let's be realistic here. Why are you trying to acquire all these guys if they are all terrible/about to lose their jobs/hiding an injury/etc.?
I'll make up an example here, something along the lines of:
Hey, not sure if this is the right move for me, but I'd be willing to gamble that LT's toe holds up and that Manning returns to form. Tomlinson is only going to lose more carries each week to Sproles, and Manning's knee could flare up at any time. He's definitely a risk. Meanwhile, D. Anderson is a great buy-low right now as I'm not convinced Quinn is the answer. Crennell is looking to save his job and he's getting Stallworth back this week. Plus, Leon Washington is taking that job in NY. Jones is showing his age, plus he's a better fit for the offense. I think you're getting the better end of the deal, but I'm looking to shake things up. Deal?
Ok, that's a bit extreme, but you get the point.
What bugs me more than that (and I only say "bug", as in it isn't worth getting totally PO'd over) is when the other owner attaches a note to the offer that points out all the risks and flaws in the players he's trying to acquire, while pointing out how the outlook for each player you'd be getting is bright and sunny. Yes, I know selling your end of the deal is part of the whole process, but let's be realistic here. Why are you trying to acquire all these guys if they are all terrible/about to lose their jobs/hiding an injury/etc.?
I'll make up an example here, something along the lines of:
Hey, not sure if this is the right move for me, but I'd be willing to gamble that LT's toe holds up and that Manning returns to form. Tomlinson is only going to lose more carries each week to Sproles, and Manning's knee could flare up at any time. He's definitely a risk. Meanwhile, D. Anderson is a great buy-low right now as I'm not convinced Quinn is the answer. Crennell is looking to save his job and he's getting Stallworth back this week. Plus, Leon Washington is taking that job in NY. Jones is showing his age, plus he's a better fit for the offense. I think you're getting the better end of the deal, but I'm looking to shake things up. Deal?
Ok, that's a bit extreme, but you get the point.
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KellysHeroes
Footballguy
LOL to this thread... yeah, I hate owners like you; people who just try to rip me off all the time and don't get the point that I don't want to trade player A. You league allows you to keep 2 players plus a rookie, making an impact Rookie like CJ3 even more valuable than he already is... also in a keeper league like yours RB are very valuable since you can retain the good ones you drafted and just replace everybody else on a yearly basis.Orton is having a good couple of games and is a great sell high, but most decent FF owners can smell a sell high offer when it comes. Farve is always good, but his career is in the last stages.
The trade value for a impact Rookie like CJ3 is alot more than an avg QB... I would require one of the top 4 (Romo, Manning, Brees, & Cutler). Plus, if your playing in a smaller league (12 teams or under) finding a QB is super easy, either WW or theres always a weak team that has 3 good QBs rostered.
I wouldn't even bother making the 2 offers that you made because I know I would just be insluting the people I play w/.
Stop complaining that you have a smart owner in your league, and if your
leavue the league and find the 1st graders you wish to dominate.
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
had bye week issues last week when i had NO qb to start...asked for BS qb's like Sage Gus and Griese types....
Owners asked for for high picks and guys like Sproles and Meachum....Im like you know i rater lose my 1st game than to give anyone like that in a dynasty for a 1 week fill in qb.
Sometimes owners prey on your bye week issues. But its all good..Glad i know that though from those certian owners.
Owners asked for for high picks and guys like Sproles and Meachum....Im like you know i rater lose my 1st game than to give anyone like that in a dynasty for a 1 week fill in qb.
Sometimes owners prey on your bye week issues. But its all good..Glad i know that though from those certian owners.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
That is one point I don't like, I never get rude to an owner who makes the 1st attempt offer... I would recounter, like what this owner did w/ my own "high" offer... and see where it goes from there. If its a player I overvalue and know it, I tell them its going to cost. Now, theres a point when the offers become a form of harrassment... when you just keep getting lowball offers every couple of days; thats when you have to write the "just leave me alone, if I want to trade w/ you; I send you an offer."
Owners who are willing to make sensible trades ought to do better than owners who are not. If one player won't trade with you, trade with the others. If no one will trade with you, maybe you're not being reasonable.
A man was driving home from work when he got a call from his wife. She said "honey, be careful on your way home. I'm watching the news on TV and someone's driving the wrong way on the road you usually use." "It's not just one person," he replied. "Everyone is driving the wrong way!"
In this month's financial markets, thousands of company managers are saying "our company would be fine if people would only pay the right prices for these assets we're trying to unload."
A man was driving home from work when he got a call from his wife. She said "honey, be careful on your way home. I'm watching the news on TV and someone's driving the wrong way on the road you usually use." "It's not just one person," he replied. "Everyone is driving the wrong way!"
In this month's financial markets, thousands of company managers are saying "our company would be fine if people would only pay the right prices for these assets we're trying to unload."
rock753
Footballguy
Both your offers didn't make much since for him. Why would he give up a rookie running back who is doing very well for a QB that he only needs for a week or two and is going to retire.Why would he give up a sleeper like Hightower who could blow up in a year or two for a QB that is not that much of an upgrade over Fitzpatrick, and would never see the feild when Hass or Palmer are healthy.His counter was likely a message that he wasn't interested in your offers of old and jorney men QB's for young potential stud RB's; rather than than a serious offer.rockalum said:
rock753
Footballguy
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Coach3K
Footballguy
Keep in mind that some of the other players in your league may actually be thinking beyond their own team and are considering the impact the trade may have on YOU.
I'll avoid giving my exact lineup to keep the Massengills in here away, but in my main league (PPR) where I can start a total of 4 RB/WR (max 2 RB, max 3 WR), I have drafted and traded for enough depth that I can't see a week through the end of the year where I would play MJD or Housh, even if I had an injury to the top starters at both positions. They are the ultimate emergency backups...not even matchup plays.
I've tried moving them, even for D/ST upgrades, but no one is biting. I'm currently 4-1 and a lot of great matchups coming up. I have a feeling that some guys may be concerned about putting any more talent on my team and are avoiding trades that would improve me in any way.
Every league dynamic is different, though. Some guys like to wheel and deal and others just like to wait for their drafted players to blossom.
I'll avoid giving my exact lineup to keep the Massengills in here away, but in my main league (PPR) where I can start a total of 4 RB/WR (max 2 RB, max 3 WR), I have drafted and traded for enough depth that I can't see a week through the end of the year where I would play MJD or Housh, even if I had an injury to the top starters at both positions. They are the ultimate emergency backups...not even matchup plays.
I've tried moving them, even for D/ST upgrades, but no one is biting. I'm currently 4-1 and a lot of great matchups coming up. I have a feeling that some guys may be concerned about putting any more talent on my team and are avoiding trades that would improve me in any way.
Every league dynamic is different, though. Some guys like to wheel and deal and others just like to wait for their drafted players to blossom.
glumpy
breeze
Maybe I'm the owner like the OP describes. Maybe all of the owners in my league.
You figure you and the others drafted for who you liked; frequently you will be valuing them more than others like.
deep vacuum
Footballguy
One thing really bothers me about this line of thinking. It seems like a lot of owners would rather give up on this season just to keep a player for next year. How many losses does your team need to incur before it becomes a fair trade offer in your mind? If your potential future studs are back ups on your bench this year and your team needs help at another position for more than just a one of two week fill in, I would certainly consider the weekly FF points upgrade that some no name or soon to be retired players like Orton and Favre would bring to the table over what some NFL backup like Fitzgerald or will bring to your teams weekly FF scoring. I'm not syaing I would trade CJ for either QB buy I would consider trading Hightower. For all we know both Hasslebeck and Palmer could potentially be placed on IR soon. In a Dynasty format I would look at the trade offers much differently but I want to win this year and hopefully keep as many players that I want for next year to keep my team competitive. By turning down a no name offer for next years potential stud you just might be dooming your team to weekly defeats this year. Worry about next year, next year.For the record, I don’t care what round a player was drafted in or what his potential is for next year. If someone can help my starting team this year I’ll at least look at the trade offer and consider the immediate and future impact on my team. With the smarter owners in my leagues I know that a fair offer might be accepted and at least get a response from them that explains what they are thinking, possibly even get a counter-offer. The owners that see things through rose colored glasses I know will require a big over payment to get a player I want.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I wish you were in my leagues, and I don't mean that in a negative way. Too many of the owners in my leagues are completely tied up in getting younger, always looking for picks or youth instead of an older productive player. Which is fine, but after I've acquired the older studs and am highly competitive, I can't trade any more.
blake
Footballguy
i was on your side in the first part of your post; lowball offers never initiate discussion. but then the 2nd part would absolutely infuriate me. don't waste my time - just offer a trade if you are interested in a player, but don't retract the very trade that you offered just because you don't want to. i would make sure not to trade that player to you - he'd be off the table with a tactic like that.FantasyTrader said:
blake
Footballguy
i like this post. it's taken me a while, but the key is winning. in my league, we have to pay a draft pick 2 rounds higher than where a keeper was taken. i just traded steve slaton and one of the things i liked most about him is that i'd drafted him late so he wouldn't cost me much to retain...but who cares? worry about next year, next year, just like you write.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
why not package favre and a felix jones type back. It is a dynasty league and hightower and c johnson are future studs (both could easily be RB1 on rising teams next year)rockalum said:
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
I hear what you're saying. What I described is actually a slimy way of going about getting another owner engaged in trade discussion. It's a technique I only use as a last ditch effort (i.e. - when previous trade offers have gone unresponded, etc.) But for people who are good with words and good negotiators, the deal can be pulled away without you having been offended at all. My response isn't, "Bwahahaha!!! You thought that deal was real!?!? Now that I have you negotiating...bend over." It's more along the lines of, "Man I'm an idiot. I didn't see when I initially sent ya that offer, it would leave me with Derek Anderson as my starter." If done correctly, not only are you not infuriated at me, but I've actually endeared myself to you.
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FantasyTrader
Footballguy
No, it's not renegging. That's only after two parties have agreed on something. Everything before two people say yes, is negotiation.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
Trading in my keeper league is like pulling teeth. I don't know how I was able to do 3 trades this season. I sent TO packing for Holt before the season (his contract was up so it was deal him or get nothing) I then moved Holt for Randy Moss & then moved oss for Burress. The guy I sent Holt to for Moss said (in response to a later offer I sent) no more trades b/c he doesn't want to get ripped off anymore.
tribecalledjeff
Footballguy
You offer and he accepts. That's an agreement. If you did this to me I'd be forced to start a thread on FBG whining about my league mate.FantasyTrader said:
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
Well, it certainly matters how you go about phrasing your initial "offer". There's also ways of presenting a scenario that will be interpreted as an offer - when really it's just a hypothetical. Something like "Just wondering if Witten is available? I have Fitzgerald and Bob's 2nd round pick next year and I'm dying for an upgrade at TE." An offer hasn't really been made, but for people who are good at jumping to conclusions...
...it would be interpreted as a formal offer.
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