Do you think Snyder should change the name of the Redskins? (1 Viewer)

[Ditka Butkus]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

Oh we're talking about the Indians... cause I know an Irish guy that has extremely red skin and he has never mentioned it.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

They should change the name to the Whiteskins.

Palefaces - to honor their Native American heritage

Fwiw (not much I guess) there was a team called the Atlanta Crackers.

 

[johnnycakes]

They should change the name to the Whiteskins.

Palefaces - to honor their Native American heritage

Except I doubt most of the Paleface players would go along with this. Unless one can imagine ~75% of the team playing in whiteface.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Great news- there's a shark pool thread on this subject.

A little slow so far, but there's some real gems. This, for example, is amazing:

So this is what the most important thing for our government to do? I know every generation says it but we seriously are a big turd streaking around a toilet bowl.

I considered pointing out that this is actually the government deciding NOT to do something. But then I figured better to just sit back and watch the show.

Shark Pool continues to bring the HOT TAKES on this one. You guys are way behind. The bad arguments in this thread are like the ones you'd find comment section of National Review. The Shark Pool comments are like your angry uncle on Facebook who resents the current state of his life and blames everyone but himself. Look at this masterpiece:

If that's the case then can I petition Nabisco to stop using the word cracker because I find the word offensive as a white middle-aged middle class individual?

They could just change the name to Washington Rednecks....as there are no protections for offensive names for individuals of the Caucasian persuasion.

Step up your game, FFA Redskins name defenders.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Great news- there's a shark pool thread on this subject.

A little slow so far, but there's some real gems. This, for example, is amazing:

So this is what the most important thing for our government to do? I know every generation says it but we seriously are a big turd streaking around a toilet bowl.

I considered pointing out that this is actually the government deciding NOT to do something. But then I figured better to just sit back and watch the show.

Why can't they just merge the threads and send `em here?

Football and FF belongs in TSP, politics and other assorted bs belongs here (er such as it is).

People discuss something for 37 pages and .... hey how about a new thread where every old point gets covered again.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Great news- there's a shark pool thread on this subject.

A little slow so far, but there's some real gems. This, for example, is amazing:

So this is what the most important thing for our government to do? I know every generation says it but we seriously are a big turd streaking around a toilet bowl.

I considered pointing out that this is actually the government deciding NOT to do something. But then I figured better to just sit back and watch the show.

Why can't they just merge the threads and send `em here?

Football and FF belongs in TSP, politics and other assorted bs belongs here (er such as it is).

People discuss something for 37 pages and .... hey how about a new thread where every old point gets covered again.

I guess we could, but that wouldn't be fun. The arguments defending the name here are just run of the mill bad, tired arguments. The ones over there are unreal. It's like 15 versions of PFT Commenter come to life. I mean look at that Nabisco one! That's art. You don't mess with art.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Great news- there's a shark pool thread on this subject.

A little slow so far, but there's some real gems. This, for example, is amazing:

So this is what the most important thing for our government to do? I know every generation says it but we seriously are a big turd streaking around a toilet bowl.

I considered pointing out that this is actually the government deciding NOT to do something. But then I figured better to just sit back and watch the show.

Why can't they just merge the threads and send `em here?

Football and FF belongs in TSP, politics and other assorted bs belongs here (er such as it is).

People discuss something for 37 pages and .... hey how about a new thread where every old point gets covered again.

I guess we could, but that wouldn't be fun. The arguments defending the name here are just run of the mill bad, tired arguments. The ones over there are unreal. It's like 15 versions of PFT Commenter come to life. I mean look at that Nabisco one! That's art. You don't mess with art.

Actually I was in an Irish pub (a real one, it's an almost all Irish wait staff and owner/chef, Matt Murphy) watching the NED/AUS game just a short while ago and a well meaning guy, clearly well educated, sees the ticker about the trademark revocation...

...and proceeds to have a well meaning conversation on the topic, and points out, 'Hey what if there was a team called the Micks..." (that went well) and then proceeds to talk about how the Irish never had it as bad as the Indians.

Yikes, full meltdown behind the bar.

(btw I was just there, promise I was not involved, but had to laugh)

 

[Don Quixote]

Shark Pool continues to bring the HOT TAKES on this one. You guys are way behind. The bad arguments in this thread are like the ones you'd find comment section of National Review. The Shark Pool comments are like your angry uncle on Facebook who resents the current state of his life and blames everyone but himself. Look at this masterpiece:

If that's the case then can I petition Nabisco to stop using the word cracker because I find the word offensive as a white middle-aged middle class individual?

They could just change the name to Washington Rednecks....as there are no protections for offensive names for individuals of the Caucasian persuasion.

Step up your game, FFA Redskins name defenders.

I think my favorite is the person challenging the entire body of statistical analysis. It brought back memories of the 2012 election and unskewedpolls.com.

 

[CBusAlex]

I guess we could, but that wouldn't be fun. The arguments defending the name here are just run of the mill bad, tired arguments. The ones over there are unreal. It's like 15 versions of PFT Commenter come to life. I mean look at that Nabisco one! That's art. You don't mess with art.

I don't know, man. Has anyone over there tried to argue that Jacksonville's team is just as offensive to people who drive Jaguars as Washington's is to Native Americans? I think that one has to take the cake.

 

[Henry Ford]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

 

[TheIronSheik]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I guess we could, but that wouldn't be fun. The arguments defending the name here are just run of the mill bad, tired arguments. The ones over there are unreal. It's like 15 versions of PFT Commenter come to life. I mean look at that Nabisco one! That's art. You don't mess with art.

I don't know, man. Has anyone over there tried to argue that Jacksonville's team is just as offensive to people who drive Jaguars as Washington's is to Native Americans? I think that one has to take the cake.

That's amazing. Even better then "Jets is insensitive to the victims of 9/11."

 

[Henry Ford]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

 

[TheIronSheik]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

 

[johnnycakes]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

Hey now...

 

[TheIronSheik]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

Hey now...

Don't blame me. I got nothing but love for them. HF seems to not like them so much he wants to name an NFL team after them. Much like the old Redskins owner did.

 

[TobiasFunke]

For those that have been claiming that this is a recent development and wondering why Native Americans didn't take issue with the name before now, they did. According to this article summarizing some of the points made by the plaintiffs, there was a push to change the name in 1972, including a meeting between Native American leaders and the then-owner, and a resolution from a Native American organization plus 19 separate petitions in 1993. That's in addition to the litigation, which started in 1992.

 

[johnnycakes]

For those that have been claiming that this is a recent development and wondering why Native Americans didn't take issue with the name before now, they did. According to this article summarizing some of the points made by the plaintiffs, there was a push to change the name in 1972, including a meeting between Native American leaders and the then-owner, and a resolution from a Native American organization plus 19 separate petitions in 1993. That's in addition to the litigation, which started in 1992.

#### all that.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Can't wait for this year's epic tilt between the Detroit R#tards and the Atlanta Fa##ots.

 

[Da Guru]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

"Men from China" is more PC

 

[squistion]

Twitter has been real fun today.

Gilmar Fortis II ‏@gfortis 3m

Would scalping tickets to the #Redskins game be considered a hate crime?

Sarah Rumpf @rumpfshaker · 49m

I guarantee you, far more women are offended by Hooters than Native Americans offended by the #Redskins. Is Hooters keeping their trademark?

 

[Henry Ford]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

No, it's because they're Falcons fans.

 

[Henry Ford]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

Hey now...

Don't blame me. I got nothing but love for them. HF seems to not like them so much he wants to name an NFL team after them. Much like the old Redskins owner did.

I have no problems with Asians, I have a problem with the term "Chinamen" and I have a problem with people who blame an ethnic minority for not being able to "turn it around" and use a racial slur as an endearing term or a term of pride.

 

[TheIronSheik]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

No, it's because they're Falcons fans.

I don't think they're all Falcons fans. That seems like a huge generalization, GB.

 

[TheIronSheik]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

Hey now...

Don't blame me. I got nothing but love for them. HF seems to not like them so much he wants to name an NFL team after them. Much like the old Redskins owner did.

I have no problems with Asians, I have a problem with the term "Chinamen" and I have a problem with people who blame an ethnic minority for not being able to "turn it around" and use a racial slur as an endearing term or a term of pride.

Wait. I thought the owner named them the Redskins because he was racist and hated them? Now you're saying he did it because it was a term of pride?

 

[Henry Ford]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

No, it's because they're Falcons fans.

I don't think they're all Falcons fans. That seems like a huge generalization, GB.

Like your support for the Redskins name, that joke takes some mental gymnastics.

snap.

 

[Henry Ford]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

Hey now...

Don't blame me. I got nothing but love for them. HF seems to not like them so much he wants to name an NFL team after them. Much like the old Redskins owner did.

I have no problems with Asians, I have a problem with the term "Chinamen" and I have a problem with people who blame an ethnic minority for not being able to "turn it around" and use a racial slur as an endearing term or a term of pride.

Wait. I thought the owner named them the Redskins because he was racist and hated them? Now you're saying he did it because it was a term of pride?

Not in the slightest. Try re-reading that sentence.

 

[Tom Servo]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

 

[TheIronSheik]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

No, it's because they're Falcons fans.

I don't think they're all Falcons fans. That seems like a huge generalization, GB.

Like your support for the Redskins name, that joke takes some mental gymnastics.

snap.

You shouldn't joke about the racial makeup of any group of football team fans.

 

[Fennis]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

The worst invention ever has to be Twitter

 

[TheIronSheik]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Is it because a lot of them are Chinamen? I'm not too familiar with the Falcons fan demographic.

Hey now...

Don't blame me. I got nothing but love for them. HF seems to not like them so much he wants to name an NFL team after them. Much like the old Redskins owner did.

I have no problems with Asians, I have a problem with the term "Chinamen" and I have a problem with people who blame an ethnic minority for not being able to "turn it around" and use a racial slur as an endearing term or a term of pride.

Wait. I thought the owner named them the Redskins because he was racist and hated them? Now you're saying he did it because it was a term of pride?

Not in the slightest. Try re-reading that sentence.

Re-read a sentence? Who am I? The Pope?

 

[Tom Servo]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

The worst invention ever has to be Twitter

So...no comment on the facts presented?

 

[TheIronSheik]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

LOL

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It's a shame the Indians can't turn the term Redskin into an endearing term that their people can get behind, like the Yankees did.

I feel the same way about all racial slurs. It's too bad that "Chinamen" isn't endearing enough to make into a sports team logo. We should blame Asians for that.

Hmmm. Not quite the same thing. But I guess we can hate the Chinamen for that. Your call.

I don't hate anyone except Falcon fans.

Damnit see prejudice has its place.

 

[TobiasFunke]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

The worst invention ever has to be Twitter

So...no comment on the facts presented?

Facts presented!

You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding.

 

[Fennis]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

The worst invention ever has to be Twitter

So...no comment on the facts presented?

If he found those names to be offensive, he should follow the proper process with the US Patent Office and meet the burden of proof required. AFAIK, that is the first step, not tweeting.

 

[Henry Ford]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

Whom do do those disparage or bring into contempt/disrepute?

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

The worst invention ever has to be Twitter

So...no comment on the facts presented?

The first one I clicked was "Creepy ### Cracka" and it's been suspended as of March, having been filed in August, 2013. "Suck it" and "News Whore" are arguably disparaging, but would need a showing (like Redskins had) in front of the PTO. "#####es Bash" is pretty reasonably offensive - but again, you'd need to have someone file suit claiming it's disparaging. "My Dadz Nutz" is conceivably offensive - but doesn't fit the "disparaging" or "causing contempt" requirements, and I don't see any way that gets overturned on hearing.

Again - the test to see if it's registerable is NOT "is it offensive" in a vacuum. That's what people are arguing on Twitter. It's not the case.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

The worst invention ever has to be Twitter

So...no comment on the facts presented?

I think they'll all ultimately be revoked. Rome wasn't revoked in a day.

 

[Henry Ford]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

The worst invention ever has to be Twitter

So...no comment on the facts presented?

I think they'll all ultimately be revoked. Rome wasn't revoked in a day.

I don't think there's any way they all get revoked.

 

[TobiasFunke]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

The worst invention ever has to be Twitter

So...no comment on the facts presented?

If he found those names to be offensive, he should follow the proper process with the US Patent Office and meet the burden of proof required. AFAIK, that is the first step, not tweeting.

My favorite part is the end, where he lists nine "redskins"-related registered names from the PTO database and wonders why those are still OK. Clearly he didn't bother to look at either his results (one of them is just an R) or the Board's ruling, which invalidates not one but six registered trademarks including Redskinettes. Solid analysis!

 

[Tom Servo]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

The worst invention ever has to be Twitter

So...no comment on the facts presented?

Facts presented!

You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding.

Dude...calm your self-righteous self down. I didn't say they should or shouldn't be litigated against. The fact that Red an, and Stinky Gringo are approved doesn't bother you? Or is this only about Redskins?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If the Redskins name was so "disparaging" to Native Americans, why did it take the Patent Office 82 years to cancel the trademark registration? It wasn't disparaging enough 30 years ago? Or we just more thin-skinned now?

The trademark was issued in 1967. The first lawsuits were filed in 1992 and the trademark was deemed offensive in those cases in 1998 or 1999. The appellate court overturned the cancellation of the trademark based on the particular plaintiffs waiting too long to file, and the remaining requests for cancellation in front of the PTO were stayed while that case went through its appeals. That finished in 2009, and in 2010 the remaining cases were reinstated at the PTO, leading to this ruling.

The thing that strikes me is that it's taken 22 years for this to get to a non-procedural ruling. What the heck are they doing in the Patent Office?

 

[Kevrunner]

With The Game of Thrones being so popular, the Washington White Walkers has a nice ring to it.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

With The Game of Thrones being so popular, the Washington White Walkers has a nice ring to it.

Well the Washington Wizards is pretty close to that already if you think about it.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Maybe all the teams should pull random pre-approved names from a hat.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/offensive-here-are-some-registered-trademarks-still-good-standing-you-wont-believe

Other gubmint-approved offensive trademarks.

The worst invention ever has to be Twitter

So...no comment on the facts presented?

If he found those names to be offensive, he should follow the proper process with the US Patent Office and meet the burden of proof required. AFAIK, that is the first step, not tweeting.

My favorite part is the end, where he lists nine "redskins"-related registered names from the PTO database and wonders why those are still OK. Clearly he didn't bother to look at either his results (one of them is just an R) or the Board's ruling, which invalidates not one but six registered trademarks including Redskinettes. Solid analysis!

The "Redskinettes"?

Might have to change the name just because of that.

 

[Henry Ford]

If the Redskins name was so "disparaging" to Native Americans, why did it take the Patent Office 82 years to cancel the trademark registration? It wasn't disparaging enough 30 years ago? Or we just more thin-skinned now?

The trademark was issued in 1967. The first lawsuits were filed in 1992 and the trademark was deemed offensive in those cases in 1998 or 1999. The appellate court overturned the cancellation of the trademark based on the particular plaintiffs waiting too long to file, and the remaining requests for cancellation in front of the PTO were stayed while that case went through its appeals. That finished in 2009, and in 2010 the remaining cases were reinstated at the PTO, leading to this ruling.

The thing that strikes me is that it's taken 22 years for this to get to a non-procedural ruling. What the heck are they doing in the Patent Office?

In 1999 the PTO had the same ruling on a different case. The appeal ruling was procedural.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Washington NOT Redskins

 

[The Football Freak]

I say yes. We wouldn't accept the Brownskins with a black man as the logo or the Yellowskins with an Asian man, so why accept the Redskins? I understand it's been a very long time, but the name was created in an era where racism was more accepted. I do get some of the arguments, but I keep coming back to this.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If the Redskins name was so "disparaging" to Native Americans, why did it take the Patent Office 82 years to cancel the trademark registration? It wasn't disparaging enough 30 years ago? Or we just more thin-skinned now?

The trademark was issued in 1967. The first lawsuits were filed in 1992 and the trademark was deemed offensive in those cases in 1998 or 1999. The appellate court overturned the cancellation of the trademark based on the particular plaintiffs waiting too long to file, and the remaining requests for cancellation in front of the PTO were stayed while that case went through its appeals. That finished in 2009, and in 2010 the remaining cases were reinstated at the PTO, leading to this ruling.

The thing that strikes me is that it's taken 22 years for this to get to a non-procedural ruling. What the heck are they doing in the Patent Office?

In 1999 the PTO had the same ruling on a different case. The appeal ruling was procedural.

Ok, right, fine, but it was thus appealed on a procedural basis. And this will be appealed, and they will probably throw in both procedural and substantive arguments, and the TM/patent will stay in effect pending that appeal. And how long will that last?