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Doc Who Tied Vaccine to Autism Ruled Unethical (1 Viewer)

There's a measles outbreak at my daughter's high school (Huntington Beach, not too far from Disneyland). 2 kids have it. Wonder if it's related?

 
Disneyland Measles

Perfect example of the impact of anti-vaccine morons. People that got sick include unvaccinated (duh), kids too young to be vaccinated and people who were vaccinated but the vaccine was ineffective.

Herd immunity is real, people. The argument that it is only your business if you vaccinate your kids is not true.
It is only our business, but people should be aware that our business can impact others. It's a self awareness issue. Lot's of folks don't have it.
Completely disagree. We have all kinds of laws for the common good and providing your children with the greatest life-saving medical breakthrough of the last century should absolutely be among them, IMO.

When you not vaccinating your kids could kill or seriously harm another person then it extends beyond 'your business'. Sorry.

 
Disneyland Measles

Perfect example of the impact of anti-vaccine morons. People that got sick include unvaccinated (duh), kids too young to be vaccinated and people who were vaccinated but the vaccine was ineffective.

Herd immunity is real, people. The argument that it is only your business if you vaccinate your kids is not true.
It is only our business, but people should be aware that our business can impact others. It's a self awareness issue. Lot's of folks don't have it.
Completely disagree. We have all kinds of laws for the common good and providing your children with the greatest life-saving medical breakthrough of the last century should absolutely be among them, IMO.

When you not vaccinating your kids could kill or seriously harm another person then it extends beyond 'your business'. Sorry.
:oldunsure: Guessing you didn't read past the bold??

 
Disneyland Measles

Perfect example of the impact of anti-vaccine morons. People that got sick include unvaccinated (duh), kids too young to be vaccinated and people who were vaccinated but the vaccine was ineffective.

Herd immunity is real, people. The argument that it is only your business if you vaccinate your kids is not true.
It is only our business, but people should be aware that our business can impact others. It's a self awareness issue. Lot's of folks don't have it.
Completely disagree. We have all kinds of laws for the common good and providing your children with the greatest life-saving medical breakthrough of the last century should absolutely be among them, IMO.

When you not vaccinating your kids could kill or seriously harm another person then it extends beyond 'your business'. Sorry.
:oldunsure: Guessing you didn't read past the bold??
Perhaps I mis-read your point, but self awareness to me is not the same as legally obligated. I don't care if people are self-aware about the impact of their decision on others. I would rather they just get the shot, by law if necessary. Opting not to and knowing you're putting other people at greater risk isn't all that reassuring.

 
I just really don't understand when we became such idiots here. When I was a kid there was no question that you were getting vaccinated. it went without saying. Any parent going against that was treated like the fringe idiot they were. The worst part it is allegedly educated people leading this ridiculous, idiotic, selfish campaign. Now we have outbreaks of measles because we coddle these idiots. Next it will be something really ugly like polio then what will the anti-vaxxers have to say? When kids are dying or are only permanently disabled if they are lucky? What happens when it's their kid, then what? No one to blame but themselves.

 
I he have heard some theories linking autism to Roundup.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I he have heard some theories linking autism to Roundup.
As much as I love to hate on Monsanto the herbicide used in Roundup is one of the safest on the market. The biochemical actions in plants it restricts don't exist in humans. It is very hard to absorb via skin contact. While it can get into groundwater the levels are orders of magnitude lower than safety guidelines suggest. The scientist who posted the article isn't a biologist or a doctor she is a computer scientist. She has never done any original research in this field. She is an anti-GMO activist though. And as I am not completely sold on GMO I can take some ground with her there but given the lack of evidence she presents and the silliness of she does present it makes me suspicious of her motivations and veracity.

 
I highly recommend reading On Immunity: An Inoculation by Eula Biss. Great discussion of the history and issues surrounding the fear of vaccinations.

 
I just really don't understand when we became such idiots here. When I was a kid there was no question that you were getting vaccinated. it went without saying. Any parent going against that was treated like the fringe idiot they were. The worst part it is allegedly educated people leading this ridiculous, idiotic, selfish campaign. Now we have outbreaks of measles because we coddle these idiots. Next it will be something really ugly like polio then what will the anti-vaxxers have to say? When kids are dying or are only permanently disabled if they are lucky? What happens when it's their kid, then what? No one to blame but themselves.
:goodposting: I am so close to losing it when extended family members post crap on Facebook that every parent should do their own research and make up their own mind. Rationale discussion goes nowhere, maybe insults will help.

 
I just really don't understand when we became such idiots here. When I was a kid there was no question that you were getting vaccinated. it went without saying. Any parent going against that was treated like the fringe idiot they were. The worst part it is allegedly educated people leading this ridiculous, idiotic, selfish campaign. Now we have outbreaks of measles because we coddle these idiots. Next it will be something really ugly like polio then what will the anti-vaxxers have to say? When kids are dying or are only permanently disabled if they are lucky? What happens when it's their kid, then what? No one to blame but themselves.
:goodposting: I am so close to losing it when extended family members post crap on Facebook that every parent should do their own research and make up their own mind. Rationale discussion goes nowhere, maybe insults will help.
The internet happened. These fringe people were isolated and with a enough rational discussion they usually broke down and did the right thing. Now they can go on the internet and find hundreds of other morons who reinforce their stupid view on antivaccination and feed their fear and misinformation with more misinformation.

 
I just really don't understand when we became such idiots here. When I was a kid there was no question that you were getting vaccinated. it went without saying. Any parent going against that was treated like the fringe idiot they were. The worst part it is allegedly educated people leading this ridiculous, idiotic, selfish campaign. Now we have outbreaks of measles because we coddle these idiots. Next it will be something really ugly like polio then what will the anti-vaxxers have to say? When kids are dying or are only permanently disabled if they are lucky? What happens when it's their kid, then what? No one to blame but themselves.
:goodposting: I am so close to losing it when extended family members post crap on Facebook that every parent should do their own research and make up their own mind. Rationale discussion goes nowhere, maybe insults will help.
The internet happened. These fringe people were isolated and with a enough rational discussion they usually broke down and did the right thing. Now they can go on the internet and find hundreds of other morons who reinforce their stupid view on antivaccination and feed their fear and misinformation with more misinformation.
I like this on the topic:

http://deadspin.com/a-nation-of-echo-chambers-how-the-internet-closed-off-1674576436

 
Amid an outbreak of measles that has spread across 14 states, Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey on Monday said that parents “need to have some measure of choice” about vaccinating their children against the virus, breaking with President Obama and much of the medical profession.

In remarks here, Mr. Christie stopped short of recommending that parents immunize their children against measles, or any other illness, calling for “balance” and “choice.”
So bad.

 
Amid an outbreak of measles that has spread across 14 states, Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey on Monday said that parents “need to have some measure of choice” about vaccinating their children against the virus, breaking with President Obama and much of the medical profession.

In remarks here, Mr. Christie stopped short of recommending that parents immunize their children against measles, or any other illness, calling for “balance” and “choice.”
So bad.
An anti-vaccine Cowboys fan. Not sure what else he can do to make himself more unlikable. Maybe change his last name to Kardashian?

 
Amid an outbreak of measles that has spread across 14 states, Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey on Monday said that parents “need to have some measure of choice” about vaccinating their children against the virus, breaking with President Obama and much of the medical profession.

In remarks here, Mr. Christie stopped short of recommending that parents immunize their children against measles, or any other illness, calling for “balance” and “choice.”
So bad.
An anti-vaccine Cowboys fan. Not sure what else he can do to make himself more unlikable. Maybe change his last name to Kardashian?
To be fair, he says he had his kids vaccinated and that you should consider that fact his opinion on the matter.

But offering people the choice not to vax is like offering them the choice to drive drunk.

 
Amid an outbreak of measles that has spread across 14 states, Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey on Monday said that parents “need to have some measure of choice” about vaccinating their children against the virus, breaking with President Obama and much of the medical profession.

In remarks here, Mr. Christie stopped short of recommending that parents immunize their children against measles, or any other illness, calling for “balance” and “choice.”
So bad.
An anti-vaccine Cowboys fan. Not sure what else he can do to make himself more unlikable. Maybe change his last name to Kardashian?
To be fair, he says he had his kids vaccinated and that you should consider that fact his opinion on the matter.

But offering people the choice not to vax is like offering them the choice to drive drunk.
True. My bad. Apologies to Governor Christie- his position here may be idiotic and horrifying, but at least he's not directly responsible for endangering the lives of children for not reason at all. He's just a high-profile public official who is cool with other people doing it.

 
I just really don't understand when we became such idiots here. When I was a kid there was no question that you were getting vaccinated. it went without saying. Any parent going against that was treated like the fringe idiot they were. The worst part it is allegedly educated people leading this ridiculous, idiotic, selfish campaign. Now we have outbreaks of measles because we coddle these idiots. Next it will be something really ugly like polio then what will the anti-vaxxers have to say? When kids are dying or are only permanently disabled if they are lucky? What happens when it's their kid, then what? No one to blame but themselves.
:goodposting: I am so close to losing it when extended family members post crap on Facebook that every parent should do their own research and make up their own mind. Rationale discussion goes nowhere, maybe insults will help.
The internet happened. These fringe people were isolated and with a enough rational discussion they usually broke down and did the right thing. Now they can go on the internet and find hundreds of other morons who reinforce their stupid view on antivaccination and feed their fear and misinformation with more misinformation.
I might formulate a stock response that references a pedophiles ability to "research" and find like-minded sympathizers. I need to tread carefully here, because I could see this backfiring.

 
It seems like it's centered around well-to-do people across the political spectrum. How did the bizarre mentality get a foothold? Hollywood? Legal cases? Anti-government movement?

 
It seems like it's centered around well-to-do people across the political spectrum. How did the bizarre mentality get a foothold? Hollywood? Legal cases? Anti-government movement?
What's funny about this is that it's equal parts tea party and left wing progressives driving it.

 
It seems like it's centered around well-to-do people across the political spectrum. How did the bizarre mentality get a foothold? Hollywood? Legal cases? Anti-government movement?
What's funny about this is that it's equal parts tea party and left wing progressives driving it.
Yeah. They view it as a movement against government interference in personal lives. The whole "it's my choice no one else is involved" argument is interesting to me because it is fundamentally flawed, even putting aside the fact that the failure to vaccinate obviously affects other families directly. It isn't about "you" making a decision about what's best for "you", it's "you" making a decision about another person's health and safety -- a person who lacks the ability to make decisions him/herself. To me, it's not OK if it's "just" the kids of these nuts who get sick. We as a society have laws to protect incompetent people (in a legal sense, like minors and people with dementia) from harm at the hands of other people.

There's nothing magical about a parent's erroneous belief, no matter how earnest it may be. If I think child seats are a threat to my kids because they can trap my kid in a car after an accident, I can't "opt out" of using them. Vaccinations are no different. There has been no greater medical advancement in protecting kids' health and lives than vaccinations in the history of the world save possibly clean drinking water.

 
So the issue here is that unvaccinated people are getting other unvaccinated people sick, and the blame lies with the former group of unvaccinated people and not the latter? I am very confused here. Why is one group monsters and the other group victims?

 
So the issue here is that unvaccinated people are getting other unvaccinated people sick, and the blame lies with the former group of unvaccinated people and not the latter? I am very confused here. Why is one group monsters and the other group victims?
The issue is the no vax crowd is getting sick and spreading it to babies that haven't had a chance to get it yet, or people where the vax has worn off.

 
So the issue here is that unvaccinated people are getting other unvaccinated people sick, and the blame lies with the former group of unvaccinated people and not the latter? I am very confused here. Why is one group monsters and the other group victims?
wut
 
So the issue here is that unvaccinated people are getting other unvaccinated people sick, and the blame lies with the former group of unvaccinated people and not the latter? I am very confused here. Why is one group monsters and the other group victims?
Vaccines aren't 100% effective, and there are other groups of people who can't get vaccines. So, when people who can get vaccines and choose not to get them, it becomes much more liekly that they can infect the people who can't be vaccinated, or who were vaccinated but the vaccines didn't work.

 
Wow.

Wolfson, an Arizona cardiologist, refuses to vaccinate his two young sons. He said the family that didn't vaccinate and endangered the Jacks children did nothing wrong.

"It's not my responsibility to inject my child with chemicals in order for [a child like Maggie] to be supposedly healthy," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, it's very likely that her leukemia is from vaccinations in the first place."

"I'm not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure," he added. "It's not my responsibility to be protecting their child."

CNN asked Wolfson if he could live with himself if his unvaccinated child got another child gravely ill.

"I could live with myself easily," he said. "It's an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child."

He blamed the Jacks family for taking Maggie to the clinic for care.

"If a child is so vulnerable like that, they shouldn't be going out into society," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/30/health/arizona-measles-vaccination-debate/index.html

 
So the issue here is that unvaccinated people are getting other unvaccinated people sick, and the blame lies with the former group of unvaccinated people and not the latter? I am very confused here. Why is one group monsters and the other group victims?
No. Vaccinations are ~ 90% effective, not 100%. If everyone gets vaccinated the likelihood of encountering the bug is significantly reduced so the ~10% risk is minimized. Once unvaccinated folks contract something vaccinated kids' exposure increase, so they have a higher likelihood of contracting the bug.

 
Wow.

Wolfson, an Arizona cardiologist, refuses to vaccinate his two young sons. He said the family that didn't vaccinate and endangered the Jacks children did nothing wrong.

"It's not my responsibility to inject my child with chemicals in order for [a child like Maggie] to be supposedly healthy," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, it's very likely that her leukemia is from vaccinations in the first place."

"I'm not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure," he added. "It's not my responsibility to be protecting their child."

CNN asked Wolfson if he could live with himself if his unvaccinated child got another child gravely ill.

"I could live with myself easily," he said. "It's an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child."

He blamed the Jacks family for taking Maggie to the clinic for care.

"If a child is so vulnerable like that, they shouldn't be going out into society," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/30/health/arizona-measles-vaccination-debate/index.html
Wow indeed.

 
So the issue here is that unvaccinated people are getting other unvaccinated people sick, and the blame lies with the former group of unvaccinated people and not the latter? I am very confused here. Why is one group monsters and the other group victims?
No. Vaccinations are ~ 90% effective, not 100%. If everyone gets vaccinated the likelihood of encountering the bug is significantly reduced so the ~10% risk is minimized. Once unvaccinated folks contract something vaccinated kids' exposure increase, so they have a higher likelihood of contracting the bug.
So people are more likely to contract a disease if they come into contact with it than if they don't. Understood.

 
Wow.

Wolfson, an Arizona cardiologist, refuses to vaccinate his two young sons. He said the family that didn't vaccinate and endangered the Jacks children did nothing wrong.

"It's not my responsibility to inject my child with chemicals in order for [a child like Maggie] to be supposedly healthy," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, it's very likely that her leukemia is from vaccinations in the first place."

"I'm not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure," he added. "It's not my responsibility to be protecting their child."

CNN asked Wolfson if he could live with himself if his unvaccinated child got another child gravely ill.

"I could live with myself easily," he said. "It's an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child."

He blamed the Jacks family for taking Maggie to the clinic for care.

"If a child is so vulnerable like that, they shouldn't be going out into society," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/30/health/arizona-measles-vaccination-debate/index.html
I am not a fan of violence, but somebody needs to slap that arrogant smug SOB. Very hard

 
Wow.

Wolfson, an Arizona cardiologist, refuses to vaccinate his two young sons. He said the family that didn't vaccinate and endangered the Jacks children did nothing wrong.

"It's not my responsibility to inject my child with chemicals in order for [a child like Maggie] to be supposedly healthy," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, it's very likely that her leukemia is from vaccinations in the first place."

"I'm not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure," he added. "It's not my responsibility to be protecting their child."

CNN asked Wolfson if he could live with himself if his unvaccinated child got another child gravely ill.

"I could live with myself easily," he said. "It's an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child."

He blamed the Jacks family for taking Maggie to the clinic for care.

"If a child is so vulnerable like that, they shouldn't be going out into society," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/30/health/arizona-measles-vaccination-debate/index.html
I am not a fan of violence, but somebody needs to slap that arrogant smug SOB. Very hard
What's even more frightening, is that he is a cardiologist. I'd immediately find a new doctor ... given his lack of empathy and idiotic views on vaccines.

 
I always thought the anti-vaxxers were far left, but with Christie and Laura Ingram weighing in, I guess this stupidity crosses all the political spectrum.

 
Wow.

Wolfson, an Arizona cardiologist, refuses to vaccinate his two young sons. He said the family that didn't vaccinate and endangered the Jacks children did nothing wrong.

"It's not my responsibility to inject my child with chemicals in order for [a child like Maggie] to be supposedly healthy," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, it's very likely that her leukemia is from vaccinations in the first place."

"I'm not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure," he added. "It's not my responsibility to be protecting their child."

CNN asked Wolfson if he could live with himself if his unvaccinated child got another child gravely ill.

"I could live with myself easily," he said. "It's an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child."

He blamed the Jacks family for taking Maggie to the clinic for care.

"If a child is so vulnerable like that, they shouldn't be going out into society," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/30/health/arizona-measles-vaccination-debate/index.html
I am not a fan of violence, but somebody needs to slap that arrogant smug SOB. Very hard
There's just something about a guy acting so smug while hiding his children behind the protection provided by all those who choose to vaccinate their own children.

And something tells me he'd be the first guy to sue you if his kid slipped on the icy sidewalk in front of your house and got hurt.

 
I Don’t Vaccinate My Child Because It’s My Right To Decide What Eliminated Diseases Come Roaring Back
As a mother, I put my parenting decisions above all else. Nobody knows my son better than me, and the choices I make about how to care for him are no one’s business but my own. So, when other people tell me how they think I should be raising my child, I simply can’t tolerate it. Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I fully stand behind my choices as a mom, including my choice not to vaccinate my son, because it is my fundamental right as a parent to decide which eradicated diseases come roaring back.

The decision to cause a full-blown, multi-state pandemic of a virus that was effectively eliminated from the national population generations ago is my choice alone, and regardless of your personal convictions, that right should never be taken away from a child’s parent. Never.
...

Look, I’ve done the research on these issues, I’ve read the statistics, and I’ve carefully considered the costs and benefits, and there’s simply no question in my mind that inciting a nationwide health emergency by unleashing a disease that can kill 20 percent or more of its victims is the right one for my child.

People need to respect that and move on.
 
I always thought the anti-vaxxers were far left, but with Christie and Laura Ingram weighing in, I guess this stupidity crosses all the political spectrum.
I live in a very far right area and it is highly prevalent here. One of the most educated moms I know is the biggest proponent. She almost had my wife convinced and literally because of the education in this thread, we got our kids vaccinated. The only thing we really don't do is the flu vaccine.

 
I Don’t Vaccinate My Child Because It’s My Right To Decide What Eliminated Diseases Come Roaring Back

As a mother, I put my parenting decisions above all else. Nobody knows my son better than me, and the choices I make about how to care for him are no one’s business but my own. So, when other people tell me how they think I should be raising my child, I simply can’t tolerate it. Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I fully stand behind my choices as a mom, including my choice not to vaccinate my son, because it is my fundamental right as a parent to decide which eradicated diseases come roaring back.

The decision to cause a full-blown, multi-state pandemic of a virus that was effectively eliminated from the national population generations ago is my choice alone, and regardless of your personal convictions, that right should never be taken away from a child’s parent. Never.
...

Look, I’ve done the research on these issues, I’ve read the statistics, and I’ve carefully considered the costs and benefits, and there’s simply no question in my mind that inciting a nationwide health emergency by unleashing a disease that can kill 20 percent or more of its victims is the right one for my child.

People need to respect that and move on.
Awesome!

Posted to Facebook.

 
Wow.

Wolfson, an Arizona cardiologist, refuses to vaccinate his two young sons. He said the family that didn't vaccinate and endangered the Jacks children did nothing wrong.

"It's not my responsibility to inject my child with chemicals in order for [a child like Maggie] to be supposedly healthy," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, it's very likely that her leukemia is from vaccinations in the first place."

"I'm not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure," he added. "It's not my responsibility to be protecting their child."

CNN asked Wolfson if he could live with himself if his unvaccinated child got another child gravely ill.

"I could live with myself easily," he said. "It's an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child."

He blamed the Jacks family for taking Maggie to the clinic for care.

"If a child is so vulnerable like that, they shouldn't be going out into society," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/30/health/arizona-measles-vaccination-debate/index.html
Interesting reading on the Dr's website. Info about a lecture hosted by he and his chiropractor wife. Don't forget to stop by the store for your organic skin care system, CardioSUper Food, or Multi Core Multivitamins.

All specialty formulated by the Drs Wolfson!

 
Wow.

Wolfson, an Arizona cardiologist, refuses to vaccinate his two young sons. He said the family that didn't vaccinate and endangered the Jacks children did nothing wrong.

"It's not my responsibility to inject my child with chemicals in order for [a child like Maggie] to be supposedly healthy," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, it's very likely that her leukemia is from vaccinations in the first place."

"I'm not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure," he added. "It's not my responsibility to be protecting their child."

CNN asked Wolfson if he could live with himself if his unvaccinated child got another child gravely ill.

"I could live with myself easily," he said. "It's an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child."

He blamed the Jacks family for taking Maggie to the clinic for care.

"If a child is so vulnerable like that, they shouldn't be going out into society," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/30/health/arizona-measles-vaccination-debate/index.html
Interesting reading on the Dr's website. Info about a lecture hosted by he and his chiropractor wife. Don't forget to stop by the store for your organic skin care system, CardioSUper Food, or Multi Core Multivitamins.

All specialty formulated by the Drs Wolfson!
Voted "top holistic MD 2012". He barely beat out Kramer's buddy Tor Eckman
 
Wow.

Wolfson, an Arizona cardiologist, refuses to vaccinate his two young sons. He said the family that didn't vaccinate and endangered the Jacks children did nothing wrong.

"It's not my responsibility to inject my child with chemicals in order for [a child like Maggie] to be supposedly healthy," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, it's very likely that her leukemia is from vaccinations in the first place."

"I'm not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure," he added. "It's not my responsibility to be protecting their child."

CNN asked Wolfson if he could live with himself if his unvaccinated child got another child gravely ill.

"I could live with myself easily," he said. "It's an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child."

He blamed the Jacks family for taking Maggie to the clinic for care.

"If a child is so vulnerable like that, they shouldn't be going out into society," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/30/health/arizona-measles-vaccination-debate/index.html
Interesting reading on the Dr's website. Info about a lecture hosted by he and his chiropractor wife. Don't forget to stop by the store for your organic skin care system, CardioSUper Food, or Multi Core Multivitamins.

All specialty formulated by the Drs Wolfson!
I love guys like this. "Vaccinations are just a massive, elaborate plot to line the pharmacos' and doctors' pockets. Don't be fooled by them.... Now let me tell you all about this magic concoction that you can buy from me."

Nothing more than snake oil salesmen.

 

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