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Doctor violently dragged from full United flight (3 Viewers)

McGarnicle said:
United obviously handled this horribly but once the cops are there telling you to get off the plane, you're getting off the plane. Resisting is just stupid and I don't have any sympathy for the guy getting injured. I'd cooperate, then raise hell with the airline, get as much cash out them as possible, then tell everyone I know how much they suck and never fly with them again. 
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Exactly. I defer from this slightly - him getting injured shouldn't have happened because they should have just sat there and eventually come to a better conclusion. Either someone else would have sucked it up and taken to the deal or he wouldn't have gotten up. 

People who fly a lot deal with and see dumb behvior and stupid policy written to cover every scenario broadly but specific items not so well all the time

The dude drew the short straw for this ridiculous policy they have in place.

If the policy to remove him was done illegally or whatever then he will win in court, add that onto what he's going to get for the faceplant into the armrest.

He had every right to throw a fit, ##### up a storm, etc if he chose to. Once they get the rentacops on the plane just get the hell up so we can get on with our day.

 
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I gotta believe sometime in the history of commercial aviation this situation (or one very similar) has happened before. Obviously, in 2017, everyone has a smartphone and the video hits the innerwebs almost instantly and gets ruled on by the court of public opinion. That's a more recent trend. But I would have to think the lawyers for the airlines have included wording in the ticket/contract such that the airline is protected against just about everything that can happen. Toss in the fact that the police were not employees of the airline and it should be interesting to see how this plays out legally.

 
UAL closed down a little over 1%, was up about 1% yesterday. Closed almost right where it closed Friday.

 
McGarnicle said:
United obviously handled this horribly but once the cops are there telling you to get off the plane, you're getting off the plane. Resisting is just stupid and I don't have any sympathy for the guy getting injured. I'd cooperate, then raise hell with the airline, get as much cash out them as possible, then tell everyone I know how much they suck and never fly with them again. 
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I think most of us would agree and behave accordingly, but then there'd be no change and a similar incident would just occur at a later time.
That's why the good doctor is a hero. Yes, a hero of the people. He took a beating so nobody else would have to. Airline laws will hopefully change because of this brave soul and we should call these changes, the Doctor Amendments.  :grad:

 
chet said:
Put him on ignore.  Join the trend.  Don't argue with idiots because they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.
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and that my fine chet feathered friend is why i am undefeated take that to the bank brohans 

 
tommyboy said:
I fly more than you. See it happen a few times a year. Never gets to the involuntary phase that Dr dao went to. People always volunteer.

After this, I'm guessing no one volunteers anymore and the price just went up.
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Flew Southwest not more than 6 months ago and saw them force two people to leave the plane because Southwest let them board on standby and the people that they gave the seats away for showed up. The people complied and deboarded the plane without catching a beating.

 
The General said:
It adds to the absurdness of this story.
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No, it doesn't.  The actual issue itself is plenty absurd.  Whether this guy made some terrible choices more than a decade ago, and even assuming arguendo he's a jackass who deserves bad karma, has nothing to do with the actual issue/story and is a complete red herring to anybody who can focus on relevancy.  

 
Buckna said:
Flew Southwest not more than 6 months ago and saw them force two people to leave the plane because Southwest let them board on standby and the people that they gave the seats away for showed up. The people complied and deboarded the plane without catching a beating.
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That is usually the case when people comply with cops and airlines.

 
Zow said:
No, it doesn't.  The actual issue itself is plenty absurd.  Whether this guy made some terrible choices more than a decade ago, and even assuming arguendo he's a jackass who deserves bad karma, has nothing to do with the actual issue/story and is a complete red herring to anybody who can focus on relevancy.  
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Thanks counselor.

 
I don't see what everyone is complaining about here.  Such a small issue all things considered.  Don't we have more important things to worry about?   :lol:

 
Higgs said:
I don't see what everyone is complaining about here.  Such a small issue all things considered.  Don't we have more important things to worry about?   :lol:
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I agree... until it happens to you and/or an elderly family member. 

 
chet said:
Mea culpa apology from Munoz:

Statement from United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz on United Express Flight 3411

April 11, 2017

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.  

I want you to know that we take full responsibility  
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I'm not a lawyer, but if I was I would probably be horrified if my client did this.  You don't just admit you "mistreated" people.  Good grief man.

 
Buckna said:
Flew Southwest not more than 6 months ago and saw them force two people to leave the plane because Southwest let them board on standby and the people that they gave the seats away for showed up. The people complied and deboarded the plane without catching a beating.
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I had this happen to me.  I got to the plane barely on time and was allowed to board.  Guy was in my seat.  Obviously GA screwed up.  I let the FA know and the GA was there super duper quick and offered the guy $1000 for his seat - opening bid. Dude took it and everyone was happy.  This was Delta, BTW (though they lost my goodwill bank with my flight on Thursday-Friday.  Nightmare).

 
Statorama said:
I'm not a lawyer, but if I was I would probably be horrified if my client did this.  You don't just admit you "mistreated" people.  Good grief man.
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+1

I was a little surprised at the amount of venom spewed toward the CEO based on statements/comments he made. Would think more people would understand he needs to be careful what he says while this thing plays out. Reading some of the posts in this thread (and elsewhere) you'd think the CEO was on the plane putting the boots to the guy while he was down.

 
Higgs said:
I don't see what everyone is complaining about here.  Such a small issue all things considered.  Don't we have more important things to worry about?   :lol:
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This whole story is a stupid, made for memes and internet banter. The reason it's taking off is because everyone can relate to flying, flying sucks, and there's a video.

You add that the guy runs back on acting crazy, used to hand out pills like tic tacs (NOT RELEVANT TO THE STORY LAWYERS), won a quarter of a mil in the WSOP, and it ramps it up to extra interesting.

 
EYLive said:
I don't buy it. All this corporate-speak is a sad attempt to save his bush league company from further hate and boycotts. If he really cared, this "review" would have happened long ago and he wouldn't have made his asinine "re-accommodate" statement. This guy and his company sucks. Everyone's BS meter should be off the charts.
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Ya think.

 
Zow said:
No, it doesn't.  The actual issue itself is plenty absurd.  Whether this guy made some terrible choices more than a decade ago, and even assuming arguendo he's a jackass who deserves bad karma, has nothing to do with the actual issue/story and is a complete red herring to anybody who can focus on relevancy.  
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And the entire event wouldn't have even happened, if United could properly manage their crew being in the right location when needed. 

 
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Statorama said:
I'm not a lawyer, but if I was I would probably be horrified if my client did this.  You don't just admit you "mistreated" people.  Good grief man.
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The bigger dollar amount is potential lost revenue from the PR hit, not what they will pay to the doctor.

 
The General said:
This whole story is a stupid, made for memes and internet banter. The reason it's taking off is because everyone can relate to flying, flying sucks, and there's a video.

You add that the guy runs back on acting crazy, used to hand out pills like tic tacs (NOT RELEVANT TO THE STORY LAWYERS), won a quarter of a mil in the WSOP, and it ramps it up to extra interesting.
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Right.  Something we can all agree on.  As opposed to boys running girls track.   :lol:

 
Statorama said:
I'm not a lawyer, but if I was I would probably be horrified if my client did this.  You don't just admit you "mistreated" people.  Good grief man.
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It's on video.  No jury member who sees that video and isn't swayed is going to be swayed by him using the word "mistreated."  His company lost $1 billion in value in a day.  He needs to stop the bleeding.

 
The General said:
This whole story is a stupid, made for memes and internet banter. The reason it's taking off is because everyone can relate to flying, flying sucks, and there's a video.

You add that the guy runs back on acting crazy, used to hand out pills like tic tacs (NOT RELEVANT TO THE STORY LAWYERS), won a quarter of a mil in the WSOP, and it ramps it up to extra interesting.
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Oh, come on.  No one sucks #### for tic-tacs.

 
whiskey7 said:
+1

I was a little surprised at the amount of venom spewed toward the CEO based on statements/comments he made. Would think more people would understand he needs to be careful what he says while this thing plays out. Reading some of the posts in this thread (and elsewhere) you'd think the CEO was on the plane putting the boots to the guy while he was down.
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That would be good for ppv. Could make a lot of money

 
culdeus said:
So is that a no?
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Does your google not work?  The excerpt below shows that the airlines do have precedent to kick people off of flights against their will. Like I said before--just because the  small print of a company might allow them to do something s****y, doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do. 

Anyone can be kicked off an overbooked flight against their will. In 2015 alone,46,000 customers were involuntarily bumped from flights, according to the Department of Transportation.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Does your google not work?  The excerpt below shows that the airlines do have precedent to kick people off of flights against their will. Like I said before--just because the  small print of a company might allow them to do something s****y, doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do. 

Anyone can be kicked off an overbooked flight against their will. In 2015 alone,46,000 customers were involuntarily bumped from flights, according to the Department of Transportation.
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It's like both you and the CNN writer can't figure out that there's a difference between preventing someone from boarding and forcibly removing someone with a confirmed reserved seat that has already been boarded onto the plane.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Does your google not work?  The excerpt below shows that the airlines do have precedent to kick people off of flights against their will. Like I said before--just because the  small print of a company might allow them to do something s****y, doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do. 

Anyone can be kicked off an overbooked flight against their will. In 2015 alone,46,000 customers were involuntarily bumped from flights, according to the Department of Transportation.
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"Jet Blue advertises it doesn't overbook flights".

 
Passenger: The man initially volunteered to leave

The man who ended up bloodied and screaming Sunday night had initially agreed to get off the plane, passenger Jayse Anspach said.

"Him and his wife, they volunteered initially," Anspach said. "But once they found out that the next flight wasn't until (Monday) at 2:30 p.m., he said, 'I can't do that. I gotta be at work.' So he sat back down."

The harder the officers tried to get the man to leave, the harder the man insisted he stay.
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Phil Elliott said:
And the entire event wouldn't have even happened, if United could properly manage their crew being in the right location when needed. 
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This is something I have not seen discussed. Why was UAL not prepared for the scheduling issue? Is this what happens from backed up delayed flights and cancellations?

 
Does the guy have a legal leg to stand on in the initial "bump" because it (I'm assuming) wasn't oversold?....that it was employees hitching a ride?  Sorry if this has been answered before....

 
Phil Elliott said:
jvdesigns2002 said:
Does your google not work?  The excerpt below shows that the airlines do have precedent to kick people off of flights against their will. Like I said before--just because the  small print of a company might allow them to do something s****y, doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do. 

Anyone can be kicked off an overbooked flight against their will. In 2015 alone,46,000 customers were involuntarily bumped from flights, according to the Department of Transportation.
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"Jet Blue advertises it doesn't overbook flights".
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Haven't we determined already that the flight was not overbooked? The flight was completely booked, and then they had to boot 4 people to accommodate the additional flight crew.

 
GroveDiesel said:
It's like both you and the CNN writer can't figure out that there's a difference between preventing someone from boarding and forcibly removing someone with a confirmed reserved seat that has already been boarded onto the plane.
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I fully comprehend that--and I'm fully on record for saying that what United did was beyond reprehensible. You should read my earlier posts before you somehow think I'm on the side of United here.  However--the small print that most airlines have do not support what you are saying about your seat being guaranteed once you are "boarded, confirmed and reserved". If you read below--that is not the case.   The small print allows airlines to kick people off of planes against their will even if they are seated and boarded--and then airlines are permitted to ask authorities to remove the passenger.  What makes this situation especially disturbing is the level of force that this passenger was subjected to--it's beyond disgusting. I myself find the entire thing disgusting.  If an airline overbooks a flight--they should offer as much compensation required for other passengers to voluntarily make the necessary space--or they should charter some other sort of transportation for the overbooked parties.  

“Certainly you can be involuntarily bumped,“ aviation attorney Joseph LoRusso told CBS4’s Kelly Werthmann. “Can you be forcibly removed in a situation like this? That’s where we get into a bit of a gray area.”

LoRusso said federal law allows airlines to involuntarily remove passengers from overbooked flights, with compensation. Passengers have the right to refuse, LoRusso added, but if a person does not comply with airline instructions, federal law does permit the airline to ask authorities to remove the passenger from the plane.

 
Tom Skerritt said:
Haven't we determined already that the flight was not overbooked? The flight was completely booked, and then they had to boot 4 people to accommodate the additional flight crew.
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Yes, I just thought it was interesting that at least one airline says they don't overbook flights.

 
Phil Elliott said:
Tom Skerritt said:
Haven't we determined already that the flight was not overbooked? The flight was completely booked, and then they had to boot 4 people to accommodate the additional flight crew.
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Yes, I just thought it was interesting that at least one airline says they don't overbook flights.
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I understand what you were saying. It's just that people keep spewing drivel about this being an overbooked flight, and the rules regarding booting people from overbooked flights. This was not an overbooked flight. Therefore, it is questionable that that the same rules apply here.

 
Tom Skerritt said:
I understand what you were saying. It's just that people keep spewing drivel about this being an overbooked flight, and the rules regarding booting people from overbooked flights. This was not an overbooked flight. Therefore, it is questionable that that the same rules apply here.
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Apparently the reason makes little to no difference according to this Popular Mechanics article:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/airlines/news/a26010/united-airlines-bump-passenger-rights/

 
Other interesting thing on that chart - delta overbooks a lot, but appears to be much much better at getting volunteers to give up their seats.

 
Tom Skerritt said:
I understand what you were saying. It's just that people keep spewing drivel about this being an overbooked flight, and the rules regarding booting people from overbooked flights. This was not an overbooked flight. Therefore, it is questionable that that the same rules apply here.
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 Potentially not true, according to the UA COC, if crew had proper tickets.  See my link a few pages back.

 
Lawyers - Can this guy add all this crap from his past being dredged up to his certain impending lawsuit?

It is pretty crappy that all this is being brought out for something caused by the Airline.

 
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