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Does Tom Brady deserve to be in the HOF? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter HughHoney
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Who are all these other cheaters in the HOF ? Who and what did they do specifically?
You forgot most rings in question for any QB. He doesn't have one super bowl ring without an asterisk next to it.
I laugh when ESPN is acting like Brady has played great and been the Derek Jeter of the NFL when his team was caught and punished for spygate already.
No Super Bowl wins for what 10 years and then happen to be caught cheating and won a Super Bowl within 2 weeks of each other.
Brady has had a great career but to not put those rings in question is turning a blind eye to a franchise who under Bellichek has never followed the rules and found very unique ways to skirt around them.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Me, I'd put him in, but I would not sugarcoat his HOF bio. Along with all of his records, awards, and accomplishments I would have to mention the Spygate and Deflategate disciplines. My standard for the HOF is whether you can tell the story of football without the player. If you can that player does not belong, if you can't, he does. How does one tell the story of the League over the last 15 years without the Story of Tom Brady.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Sure. But let's not pretend the pats are the only players or coach looking for an advantage even if it's against the rules.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'd think he's a surefire HoF'er.
I just don't think his team has ever won a Super Bowl without an asterisk next to it. I'm not sure how to reconcile the two, but I'll let finer minds than mine do so.
I just don't think his team has ever won a Super Bowl without an asterisk next to it. I'm not sure how to reconcile the two, but I'll let finer minds than mine do so.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
12punch
Footballguy
That's fine but they were:
A) caught this year
B) caught during spygate
C) shown to have lied and denied anything ever happened
I understand others do things as well but it doesn't make it right for anyone to do it. Also I would guess not even half the playoff teams were cheating in some way this season so don't act like this is HGH in the MLB where everyone is doing the same thing.
Patriot fans should be hiding in Boston and high fiving behind closed doors because they just got away with another one with no real punishment. Basically it's like not washing your hands, eating your dessert and then your mom saying you have to wait 1 min for dessert tomorrow night. Who cares you already got your dessert, be happy, but doesn't mean the rest of your brothers and sisters can't be upset about it.
I would give up all the punishment for another Super Bowl for the Pack. I don't know if I could handle the ridicule from the Bears but another trophy in the case would help.
12punch
Footballguy
rustycolts
Footballguy
Of course he should after all “If you ain’t trying to cheat a little, you ain’t likely to win much.” At least thats how they feel in Nascar just ask Richard Petty.
Super King
Footballguy
Should be unanimous 1st ballot, still
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Rose should be in also. Joke he isn't. In fact, Rose has a better case than Brady if you just go by the fact he was never caught cheating.
You leave one of the best players ever, most hits ever, out because he gambled as a manger? The HOF is just doing itself a disservice by not having him in there, and all the guy's fans also.
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CalBear
Footballguy
I think Pete Rose's football accomplishments fall a bit short of HOF induction.
And I think the baseball HOF is completely irrelevant.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
He still clearly belongs in the HOF, and I'd vote to enshrine him if I was a voter. That said, I would at least strongly consider making him wait a year, for the obvious reasons.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I would hope they'd mention spygate and deflategate on his bust. He belongs in. He also doesn't deserve to have his story told in overly rosy terms.
Not at all.Brady's actions assured that the public faced God knows how many Pats games with faulty information about rules-enforced fairness guaranteed by the league to promote a level playing field.
His actions directly and deliberately served to undermine the public's trust in the legitimacy of the game and the league.
Looked at in this light, his actions are only trivially different from Art Schlichter's.
Wouldn't be at all shocking to see Tom (and Bill), who both give all appearances of being unapologetic serial offenfers in this sense, earn the same lifetime ban, and for the Brady era Pats to wind up alongside the Black Sox in the sports history books.
They're already there for many.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
of course he does.
Warhogs
Footballguy
Let me first admit I didn't follow this story very closely but when the topic first came up I thought there was a lot of response by other NFL players that made it sound like many teams have tampered with a hard ball or a soft ball? I'm not a Brady or Patriots fan but it seems to me that the league had some gaps in their security of this issue and because the Patriots didn't want to work with them they got hit hard. I think it's pretty obvious that all teams try to get away with what they think they can be it this, pumping crowd noise, whatever. I do think the Patriots probably push it harder than other organizations which is why they are getting hammered hard.
THE HITTER
Footballguy
I think he's a definite HOFer, first ballot.
I'm not a Brady apologist although I do appreciate his abilities.
What I find most amusing about the detractors is that they all seem to forget that he still beat the Seahawks (regardless of the bone-head final play call by Seattle) in a game where it was impossible for him to cheat due to the scrutiny he was under.
If you want to say that Seattle blew that game, then you'd have to say the same for the NYG two wins over the Pats, where miraculous plays by Giants WRs prevented the Pats from owning 2 more titles. If you want to argue the Pats shouldn't have even been in the game to begin with, then you're really treading down a long steep slope. Every year there are games where the outcome is affected by bad calls (SEA/GB, Dez catch last year), and the future playoff matchups are forever altered.
Also lost in all the ruckus is the fact that the 3rd quarter against the Colts was statistically Brady's best quarter. AFTER the refs had changed the game balls to the ones that were untouched by the ball boys.
So while I will concede that I do believe NE game balls were altered or at least attempted to be altered, Brady's abilities and wins in games that mattered, games that it would be impossible for him to cheat in, easily make him a HOFer in my opinion.
I'm not a Brady apologist although I do appreciate his abilities.
What I find most amusing about the detractors is that they all seem to forget that he still beat the Seahawks (regardless of the bone-head final play call by Seattle) in a game where it was impossible for him to cheat due to the scrutiny he was under.
If you want to say that Seattle blew that game, then you'd have to say the same for the NYG two wins over the Pats, where miraculous plays by Giants WRs prevented the Pats from owning 2 more titles. If you want to argue the Pats shouldn't have even been in the game to begin with, then you're really treading down a long steep slope. Every year there are games where the outcome is affected by bad calls (SEA/GB, Dez catch last year), and the future playoff matchups are forever altered.
Also lost in all the ruckus is the fact that the 3rd quarter against the Colts was statistically Brady's best quarter. AFTER the refs had changed the game balls to the ones that were untouched by the ball boys.
So while I will concede that I do believe NE game balls were altered or at least attempted to be altered, Brady's abilities and wins in games that mattered, games that it would be impossible for him to cheat in, easily make him a HOFer in my opinion.
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massraider
Footballguy
Vector
Footballguy
There are reasons to keep him out. Talent and production wise he definitely deserves it. Pete Rose does also but mitigating circumstances have denied him.
These organizations must protect their integrity. Will time erode this blemish... who knows.
DeBartolo was certainly treated harshly.
These organizations must protect their integrity. Will time erode this blemish... who knows.
DeBartolo was certainly treated harshly.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
So cheating to get to the Super Bowl is OK as long as you don't cheat when you get there?
Winning a Super Bowl is not about winning one game. Anyone can win one game. It's about winning a bunch of games in the regular season and then winning a bunch in a row in the postseason. If any of those weren't done legitimately, then it blows up the whole thing.
Austin Davis and Alex Smith also beat the Seahawks last year, among others.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
The worst part for me was the blatant lying. The way Brady stood up in front of everyone and played the "Gee, aww shucks guys, I've never even heard of PSI" card like some kind of lovable doofus.
Spike
Footballguy
Aaron Rodgers stated he overinflated footballs for games he's been in as he prefers them overinflated.
People want to keep him out now?
netnalp
Footballguy
I'm fine if they give the balls to the refs over or under inflated. Hoping the refs will let it slide or miss checking a ball. It's messing with the balls after they have been checked that I have a problem with.
It's like a boxer messing with the tape on his hands after it's been signed.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Aaron Rodgers forthrightly stated that he likes his balls submitted to the refs on the high side of legal for their adjustment. He, in other words, followed the rules in submitting them to the Officials for the Officials to bring them into compliance. (The rule does not require the balls to be submitted at the allowed pressure, just submitted.) Get back to us when there is any evidence he, or others on his behalf and influenced by his rewards, tampered with them after the Officials did their job.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Vector
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
you mean the Super Bowl balls were deflated ?? what are you getting at ?
massraider
Footballguy
You have to win a bunch of games to get to the Super Bowl. If you cheated all or part of the way there......well, Barry Bonds.
The amount of air was adjusted-an amount that would not fill up a balloon.
He did not replace the ball with a remote controlled ball and have some mad scientist giggling and controlling it from the sideline.
massraider
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
IF ? Part? Maybe? Could be?
All teams have had infractions of some kind or the other .... does that make every Super Bowl winner asterisk'd ?
1# of ball pressure maybe, sometimes ..... I guess that affected patriots Defense too ?
LOL haters gonna hate
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Yes.
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Okay yup lets pretend like 1940's football is like today. You look at any major sport and your likely to find cheating back in the early part of the games being played.
Also were the home teams changing out the balls mid game that were bigger and refs allowing it? Again just like today if the team brought the football and submitted to the ref and its approved than your good to go. This whole thing has always been about the Patriots tampering with the ball AFTER inspection.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Ok that's one. Pats fans are implying it runs rampant. In fact somebody above stated 50% were cheaters. I don't think there's any proof that's the case.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Brady averaged a fumble every 3.3 sacks from 2000-2006. He averaged a fumble every 5.2 sacks from 2007-2014.
The other thing not discussed is that the Pats went from a downfield passing game to a dink and dunk passing game where Brady gets rid of the ball in three step drops and in two seconds the huge majority of the time.
That in itself should explain away a lot of the fumbling data. It's much easier to hold onto the ball with pass rushers all in front of him vs. guys coming from his blind side or behind him.
I don't have the time or desire to do a more thorough analysis, but before any conclusions are made about Brady's decrease in fumbles, comparing pre-2007 to post-2007 data from other QBs also should be checked. Theoretically, one would expect other QBs fumbling numbers to dip some if there is merit to the QBs-preparing-footballs-equals-better-handle concept.
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