Does Tom Brady deserve to be in the HOF? (1 Viewer)

[TDorBust]

If you cheated all or part of the way there

IF ? Part? Maybe? Could be?

All teams have had infractions of some kind or the other .... does that make every Super Bowl winner asterisk'd ?

1# of ball pressure maybe, sometimes ..... I guess that affected patriots Defense too ?

LOL haters gonna hate

You can laugh but there is a question about the Patriots whole season. Also if Brady can not gripe in the cold in Foxborough a properly inflated ball that would have changed things possibly in the Baltimore game. People always look at the Indy game where they got caught but I would hardly doubt the AFC championship game was the first and only time this had been done.

I think its alot more likely it was done primarily every single game and that ball pressure could allow a slightly better gripe for Brady.

Call us haters but I am a realist.

 

[massraider]

He's one of the greatest QBs of all time but this suspension proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a cheater. The HOF should be reserved for those who had respect for the game and played it within the confines of the rulebook. IMO cheaters should not have a bust in Canton.

Your thoughts?

The amount of air was adjusted-an amount that would not fill up a balloon.

He did not replace the ball with a remote controlled ball and have some mad scientist giggling and controlling it from the sideline.

Once the rule was passed in 2007 that allowed Tommy Small Hands unlimited access to the balls, his fumbles decreased by 50%.

Could possibly be a coincidence. He also may have been throwing illegal footballs for YEARS.

Brady averaged a fumble every 3.3 sacks from 2000-2006. He averaged a fumble every 5.2 sacks from 2007-2014.

The other thing not discussed is that the Pats went from a downfield passing game to a dink and dunk passing game where Brady gets rid of the ball in three step drops and in two seconds the huge majority of the time.

That in itself should explain away a lot of the fumbling data.

Yeah, that's not enough for this one person sitting right here.

The sudden decrease in fumbles by Tom is not a smoking gun in any way.

But a sane person would think any illegal tampering of the balls wouldn't happen for the first time before an AFC Championship game. The text messages would lead a sane person to think this has been going on for a while.

An inquisitive person could wonder how long it's been going on for.

2007 is the earliest date I can come up with, and there's no reason to think that by 2007, Tom didn't know how he wanted his balls.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

He's one of the greatest QBs of all time but this suspension proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a cheater. The HOF should be reserved for those who had respect for the game and played it within the confines of the rulebook. IMO cheaters should not have a bust in Canton.

Your thoughts?

The amount of air was adjusted-an amount that would not fill up a balloon.

He did not replace the ball with a remote controlled ball and have some mad scientist giggling and controlling it from the sideline.

Once the rule was passed in 2007 that allowed Tommy Small Hands unlimited access to the balls, his fumbles decreased by 50%.

Could possibly be a coincidence. He also may have been throwing illegal footballs for YEARS.

Brady averaged a fumble every 3.3 sacks from 2000-2006. He averaged a fumble every 5.2 sacks from 2007-2014.

The other thing not discussed is that the Pats went from a downfield passing game to a dink and dunk passing game where Brady gets rid of the ball in three step drops and in two seconds the huge majority of the time.

That in itself should explain away a lot of the fumbling data.

Yeah, that's not enough for this one person sitting right here.

The sudden decrease in fumbles by Tom is not a smoking gun in any way.

But a sane person would think any illegal tampering of the balls wouldn't happen for the first time before an AFC Championship game. The text messages would lead a sane person to think this has been going on for a while.

An inquisitive person could wonder how long it's been going on for.

2007 is the earliest date I can come up with, and there's no reason to think that by 2007, Tom didn't know how he wanted his balls.

I've known how I want mine ever since they first descended.

 

[massraider]

He's one of the greatest QBs of all time but this suspension proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a cheater. The HOF should be reserved for those who had respect for the game and played it within the confines of the rulebook. IMO cheaters should not have a bust in Canton.

Your thoughts?

The amount of air was adjusted-an amount that would not fill up a balloon.

He did not replace the ball with a remote controlled ball and have some mad scientist giggling and controlling it from the sideline.

Once the rule was passed in 2007 that allowed Tommy Small Hands unlimited access to the balls, his fumbles decreased by 50%.

Could possibly be a coincidence. He also may have been throwing illegal footballs for YEARS.

Brady averaged a fumble every 3.3 sacks from 2000-2006. He averaged a fumble every 5.2 sacks from 2007-2014.

The other thing not discussed is that the Pats went from a downfield passing game to a dink and dunk passing game where Brady gets rid of the ball in three step drops and in two seconds the huge majority of the time.

That in itself should explain away a lot of the fumbling data.

Yeah, that's not enough for this one person sitting right here.

The sudden decrease in fumbles by Tom is not a smoking gun in any way.

But a sane person would think any illegal tampering of the balls wouldn't happen for the first time before an AFC Championship game. The text messages would lead a sane person to think this has been going on for a while.

An inquisitive person could wonder how long it's been going on for.

2007 is the earliest date I can come up with, and there's no reason to think that by 2007, Tom didn't know how he wanted his balls.

I've known how I want mine ever since they first descended.

Hey, me too. What are the chances Tom changed the way he liked his?

 

[Anarchy99]

He's one of the greatest QBs of all time but this suspension proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a cheater. The HOF should be reserved for those who had respect for the game and played it within the confines of the rulebook. IMO cheaters should not have a bust in Canton.

Your thoughts?

The amount of air was adjusted-an amount that would not fill up a balloon.

He did not replace the ball with a remote controlled ball and have some mad scientist giggling and controlling it from the sideline.

Once the rule was passed in 2007 that allowed Tommy Small Hands unlimited access to the balls, his fumbles decreased by 50%.

Could possibly be a coincidence. He also may have been throwing illegal footballs for YEARS.

Brady averaged a fumble every 3.3 sacks from 2000-2006. He averaged a fumble every 5.2 sacks from 2007-2014.

The other thing not discussed is that the Pats went from a downfield passing game to a dink and dunk passing game where Brady gets rid of the ball in three step drops and in two seconds the huge majority of the time.

That in itself should explain away a lot of the fumbling data.

Yeah, that's not enough for this one person sitting right here.

The sudden decrease in fumbles by Tom is not a smoking gun in any way.

But a sane person would think any illegal tampering of the balls wouldn't happen for the first time before an AFC Championship game. The text messages would lead a sane person to think this has been going on for a while.

An inquisitive person could wonder how long it's been going on for.

2007 is the earliest date I can come up with, and there's no reason to think that by 2007, Tom didn't know how he wanted his balls.

So QBs are expected to fumble very often when they don't get hit? Do many QBs just drop the football while standing in the pocket?

I certainly am not suggesting the Pats did nothing wrong, nor am I discounting that the Pats could have been deflating footballs for an unspecified timeframe. But I am suggesting that changes in offensive philosophy could help explain fewer fumbles by their QB.

I can't find a breakdown of what circumstances led Brady to fumble (running vs. passing), but I would guess that he was slightly more mobile, scrambled more, and may have actually have tried running the football more in the early years of his career. And I can remember a couple of times when he fumbled while running.

I still think that QB fumbles are much more dependent on how often they are hit and how hard they are hit than anything else. Getting annihilated by someone on your blind side will have a lot more to do with whether you fumble than the ball being short a PSI of air.

 

[Bri]

He's one of the greatest QBs of all time but this suspension proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a cheater. The HOF should be reserved for those who had respect for the game and played it within the confines of the rulebook. IMO cheaters should not have a bust in Canton.

Your thoughts?

The amount of air was adjusted-an amount that would not fill up a balloon.

He did not replace the ball with a remote controlled ball and have some mad scientist giggling and controlling it from the sideline.

Once the rule was passed in 2007 that allowed Tommy Small Hands unlimited access to the balls, his fumbles decreased by 50%.

Could possibly be a coincidence. He also may have been throwing illegal footballs for YEARS.

You write this as if you're speaking about a large number.

Do you complain about runningbacks that fumble 4 times versus 2 saying it's increased 100%?

Peyton Manning led the NFL in 2013 in fumbles lost, but he decreased that number by 67% in 2014! He must have had stickum on his hands and cheated!

This doesn't exxactly come across that he touched the ball a zillion times and lost fumbles 6 times in 2013 and 2 times in 2014.

 

[Bri]

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/most-fumbles-and-fumbles-lost/2014/

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

He's one of the greatest QBs of all time but this suspension proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a cheater. The HOF should be reserved for those who had respect for the game and played it within the confines of the rulebook. IMO cheaters should not have a bust in Canton.

Your thoughts?

The amount of air was adjusted-an amount that would not fill up a balloon.

He did not replace the ball with a remote controlled ball and have some mad scientist giggling and controlling it from the sideline.

Once the rule was passed in 2007 that allowed Tommy Small Hands unlimited access to the balls, his fumbles decreased by 50%.

Could possibly be a coincidence. He also may have been throwing illegal footballs for YEARS.

Brady averaged a fumble every 3.3 sacks from 2000-2006. He averaged a fumble every 5.2 sacks from 2007-2014.

The other thing not discussed is that the Pats went from a downfield passing game to a dink and dunk passing game where Brady gets rid of the ball in three step drops and in two seconds the huge majority of the time.

That in itself should explain away a lot of the fumbling data.

Yeah, that's not enough for this one person sitting right here.

The sudden decrease in fumbles by Tom is not a smoking gun in any way.

But a sane person would think any illegal tampering of the balls wouldn't happen for the first time before an AFC Championship game. The text messages would lead a sane person to think this has been going on for a while.

An inquisitive person could wonder how long it's been going on for.

2007 is the earliest date I can come up with, and there's no reason to think that by 2007, Tom didn't know how he wanted his balls.

So QBs are expected to fumble very often when they don't get hit? Do many QBs just drop the football while standing in the pocket?

I certainly am not suggesting the Pats did nothing wrong, nor am I discounting that the Pats could have been deflating footballs for an unspecified timeframe. But I am suggesting that changes in offensive philosophy could help explain fewer fumbles by their QB.

I can't find a breakdown of what circumstances led Brady to fumble (running vs. passing), but I would guess that he was slightly more mobile, scrambled more, and may have actually have tried running the football more in the early years of his career. And I can remember a couple of times when he fumbled while running.

I still think that QB fumbles are much more dependent on how often they are hit and how hard they are hit than anything else. Getting annihilated by someone on your blind side will have a lot more to do with whether you fumble than the ball being short a PSI of air.

I wonder if the pats examined grip of the ball after the Tuck Rule game?

 

[Sinrman]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[massraider]

He's one of the greatest QBs of all time but this suspension proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a cheater. The HOF should be reserved for those who had respect for the game and played it within the confines of the rulebook. IMO cheaters should not have a bust in Canton.

Your thoughts?

The amount of air was adjusted-an amount that would not fill up a balloon.

He did not replace the ball with a remote controlled ball and have some mad scientist giggling and controlling it from the sideline.

Once the rule was passed in 2007 that allowed Tommy Small Hands unlimited access to the balls, his fumbles decreased by 50%.

Could possibly be a coincidence. He also may have been throwing illegal footballs for YEARS.

You write this as if you're speaking about a large number.

Do you complain about runningbacks that fumble 4 times versus 2 saying it's increased 100%?

Peyton Manning led the NFL in 2013 in fumbles lost, but he decreased that number by 67% in 2014! He must have had stickum on his hands and cheated!

This doesn't exxactly come across that he touched the ball a zillion times and lost fumbles 6 times in 2013 and 2 times in 2014.

If illegal footballs resulted in one, just one, turnover that didn't happen that would have otherwise, IMO it's a big deal. If it saved several turnovers, then it's a massive deal.

That's just my opinion. Just like it has been a LOT of people's opinion that this is no big deal.

By the way, you are seeing that a ton, it's not really a big deal. No one really explains WHY it's not a big deal. They just say that opinion, then make statements using that opinion as FACT.

 

[12punch]

You Lilliputians can crawl all over him, but every one of you know he's first ballot.

Maybe work a little harder and you'll have a little success, and be happier with your own lives.

 

[Anarchy99]

You Lilliputians can crawl all over him, but every one of you know he's first ballot.

Maybe work a little harder and you'll have a little success, and be happier with your own lives.

There has been a lot of discussion post report and suspension about whether he will get in first ballot. The consensus right now would probably be no. But he is a long way from being on the ballot, so that could change. The rationale being that enough voters will be peeved at the deflation stuff that that could keep him out the first try.

 

[massraider]

FIrst ballot, second ballot. Whatever.

He's a Hall of Famer.

Really, who cares about which ballot? Arguing over whether someone is first or second ballot, I mean, could there be a more pointless argument? Leave that to baseball dweebs.

 

[Run It Up]

Its like no one here has ever seen a Patriots game. Brady crumples the minute he even senses pressure. Decreases the likelihood you get hurt or lose the ball significantly.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

If you cheated all or part of the way there

IF ? Part? Maybe? Could be?

All teams have had infractions of some kind or the other .... does that make every Super Bowl winner asterisk'd ?

1# of ball pressure maybe, sometimes ..... I guess that affected patriots Defense too ?

LOL haters gonna hate

This seems like it would better fit into a thread that wasn't about a team/player that was just handed the harshest cheating penalty in NFL history.

As far as I'm aware there is only one team to ever be caught and punished for cheating during a Super Bowl winning season. That's the Patriots, twice, during the Belichick/Brady era. Either everyone cheats and these two guys are just the goofiest couple of crappy cheaters in existence, or other people aren't cheating like they are. Given the way that these guys stayed cool and laughed off all allegations as ridiculous both times like they were completely oblivious to it, I'm fairly confident that it's not the former.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

He's one of the greatest QBs of all time but this suspension proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a cheater. The HOF should be reserved for those who had respect for the game and played it within the confines of the rulebook. IMO cheaters should not have a bust in Canton.

Your thoughts?

The amount of air was adjusted-an amount that would not fill up a balloon.

He did not replace the ball with a remote controlled ball and have some mad scientist giggling and controlling it from the sideline.

Once the rule was passed in 2007 that allowed Tommy Small Hands unlimited access to the balls, his fumbles decreased by 50%.

Could possibly be a coincidence. He also may have been throwing illegal footballs for YEARS.

You write this as if you're speaking about a large number.

Do you complain about runningbacks that fumble 4 times versus 2 saying it's increased 100%?

Peyton Manning led the NFL in 2013 in fumbles lost, but he decreased that number by 67% in 2014! He must have had stickum on his hands and cheated!

This doesn't exxactly come across that he touched the ball a zillion times and lost fumbles 6 times in 2013 and 2 times in 2014.

What if one of those would-have-been turnovers was on a scoring drive in the Ravens' playoff game? We'll never know how a few plays here or there could have affected that game, or home field advantage, or various other things. It's all tainted.

And Brady wasn't the only one who fumbled less, so let's not act like it's just one or two plays and lets not forget that it makes the ball easier to throw and catch too. How many catches/drops did it change? How many bad weather passes?

 

[The Commish]

Who are all these other cheaters in the HOF ? Who and what did they do specifically?

http://profootballdaly.com/sammy-baugh-threw-deflated-footballs/

Ok that's one. Pats fans are implying it runs rampant. In fact somebody above stated 50% were cheaters. I don't think there's any proof that's the case.

I missed that comment, but I'd bet the over on that percentage. Do you really believe that over half of the league has never cheated? I don't. There's WAY too much competition at that level. There's no way I can believe that. If one wants to bag on him for lying, whatever, have at it. For cheating? You'll have a hard time applying that standard in today's NFL or the NFL of the past for that matter. Won't leave you much quality HOF material to choose from, that's for sure.

 

[Stealthycat]

make no mistake

nobody was caught doing anything and the 2 month report said " its more probably than not" .... like 50.1 to 49.9 or ??? I mean, c'mon .... that penalty was more harsh than beating a woman or vehicular manslaughter, you'd think they actually HAD something right ?

But NFL is trying to look good in the public light - a league full of thugs with out of control cheating (music piped in, teams talking to players when they shouldn't, NOS fiasco, rapes, gun felonies, domestic abuse, drugs everywhere ) ..... they're making a statement

I get that - IF THEY HAD PROOF

Do I think Patriots cheat? Damn right ... EVERY team cheats, every player tries to get an edge etc. Was what they did wrong? Well if it was a 7# pressure ball vs 12.5# yeah that's big ... but 11.5# when it was supposed to be 12.5# ? That's what, 8% difference?

1# of pressure make ya'll think he's just a good QB who cheated his way to greatness ? 1# takes away all that the offense and defenses did ?

C'mon .... use some common sense here.

 

[Run It Up]

Troy Vincent actually explicitly stated that it didn't alter the outcome of the AFCCG in anyway. I thought it was hilarious until a couple paragraphs later when he took their 2016 1st.

 

[12punch]

make no mistake

nobody was caught doing anything and the 2 month report said " its more probably than not" .... like 50.1 to 49.9 or ??? I mean, c'mon .... that penalty was more harsh than beating a woman or vehicular manslaughter, you'd think they actually HAD something right ?

But NFL is trying to look good in the public light - a league full of thugs with out of control cheating (music piped in, teams talking to players when they shouldn't, NOS fiasco, rapes, gun felonies, domestic abuse, drugs everywhere ) ..... they're making a statement

I get that - IF THEY HAD PROOF

Do I think Patriots cheat? Damn right ... EVERY team cheats, every player tries to get an edge etc. Was what they did wrong? Well if it was a 7# pressure ball vs 12.5# yeah that's big ... but 11.5# when it was supposed to be 12.5# ? That's what, 8% difference?

1# of pressure make ya'll think he's just a good QB who cheated his way to greatness ? 1# takes away all that the offense and defenses did ?

C'mon .... use some common sense here.

1 pound makes you the greatest qb in the history of the sport, but nobody takes a pound out of their balls because they're all ethical

this also explains why qb ratings go through the roof when it gets cold

shark pool be sharkin'

 

[KarmaPolice]

I would expect the same range of voter reactions towards Brady (maybe) cheating as towards Ray Lewis (maybe) murdering people, Big Ben (maybe) raping people, etc. Some don't care, some don't see it as relevant to his body of work, some see it as a major black mark.

I don't care who is or isn't a "Hall of Famer." There isn't any nice way for the history books to spin the reigning SB MVP getting suspended for (maybe) cheating, though.

One of these things is not like the other. One effected the actual games.

There is proof that it effected games now?

 

[KarmaPolice]

I'd think he's a surefire HoF'er.

I just don't think his team has ever won a Super Bowl without an asterisk next to it. I'm not sure how to reconcile the two, but I'll let finer minds than mine do so.

Wasnt Spygate a bit after their first 2 wins?

 

[Sabertooth]

Doesn't matter what anyone says at this point to me. Nobody is going to lawyer me out of what I feel in my gut. Brady and Belichick were winners. Brady and Belichick were cheaters. They will both go in the Hall of Fame, and when I tell my grandkids about them, I'll mention both aspects.

 

[KarmaPolice]

If you cheated all or part of the way there

IF ? Part? Maybe? Could be?

All teams have had infractions of some kind or the other .... does that make every Super Bowl winner asterisk'd ?

1# of ball pressure maybe, sometimes ..... I guess that affected patriots Defense too ?

LOL haters gonna hate

This seems like it would better fit into a thread that wasn't about a team/player that was just handed the harshest cheating penalty in NFL history.

As far as I'm aware there is only one team to ever be caught and punished for cheating during a Super Bowl winning season. That's the Patriots, twice, during the Belichick/Brady era. Either everyone cheats and these two guys are just the goofiest couple of crappy cheaters in existence, or other people aren't cheating like they are. Given the way that these guys stayed cool and laughed off all allegations as ridiculous both times like they were completely oblivious to it, I'm fairly confident that it's not the former.

Only one team has been fined and punished for breaking the rules in the last 15 years? You sure about that?

 

[rockaction]

I'd think he's a surefire HoF'er.

I just don't think his team has ever won a Super Bowl without an asterisk next to it. I'm not sure how to reconcile the two, but I'll let finer minds than mine do so.

Wasnt Spygate a bit after their first 2 wins?

Not really. The Rams swear they were being videotaped in their walk-through for the first Pats SB. And we'll never know, because the NFL destroyed the tapes.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I'd think he's a surefire HoF'er.

I just don't think his team has ever won a Super Bowl without an asterisk next to it. I'm not sure how to reconcile the two, but I'll let finer minds than mine do so.

Wasnt Spygate a bit after their first 2 wins?

Not really. The Rams swear they were being videotaped in their walk-through for the first Pats SB. And we'll never know, because the NFL destroyed the tapes.

At the time they said they had tapes going back to 2000.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I'd think he's a surefire HoF'er.

I just don't think his team has ever won a Super Bowl without an asterisk next to it. I'm not sure how to reconcile the two, but I'll let finer minds than mine do so.

Wasnt Spygate a bit after their first 2 wins?

Not really. The Rams swear they were being videotaped in their walk-through for the first Pats.

Oh, then it must be true.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I'd think he's a surefire HoF'er.

I just don't think his team has ever won a Super Bowl without an asterisk next to it. I'm not sure how to reconcile the two, but I'll let finer minds than mine do so.

Wasnt Spygate a bit after their first 2 wins?

Not really. The Rams swear they were being videotaped in their walk-through for the first Pats SB. And we'll never know, because the NFL destroyed the tapes.

At the time they said they had tapes going back to 2000.

Tapes of what? Wasn't it legal until 2006 to tape from the sidelines?

 

[rockaction]

A Radiohead Patriots fan?? Son, we need to spill you some chicken feed and right quick.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I'd think he's a surefire HoF'er.

I just don't think his team has ever won a Super Bowl without an asterisk next to it. I'm not sure how to reconcile the two, but I'll let finer minds than mine do so.

Wasnt Spygate a bit after their first 2 wins?

Not really. The Rams swear they were being videotaped in their walk-through for the first Pats SB. And we'll never know, because the NFL destroyed the tapes.

At the time they said they had tapes going back to 2000.

Tapes of what? Wasn't it legal until 2006 to tape from the sidelines?

No, that's when sent out another reminder email/letter to teams based on complaints about the Patriots.

 

[Anarchy99]

I'd think he's a surefire HoF'er.

I just don't think his team has ever won a Super Bowl without an asterisk next to it. I'm not sure how to reconcile the two, but I'll let finer minds than mine do so.

Wasnt Spygate a bit after their first 2 wins?

Not really. The Rams swear they were being videotaped in their walk-through for the first Pats SB. And we'll never know, because the NFL destroyed the tapes.

Let's take these one issue at a time. Sure, I suppose there could be things lurking out there that have not surfaced, but . . .

The story on the alleged videotape of the Rams final walk though went as follows. Marshall Faulk even to this day insists the Pats did something illegal. The Rams were said to have added a play or two into their playbook just for the SB so there could not have been any way for teams to scope out or scout those plays. In the game itself, those plays didn't work, the Rams receivers were covered, and Faulk's conclusion was that the Patriots had to know what they were going to do beforehand.

Six years later, a Boston newspaper claimed there was a videotape from the Pats video guy, who said he taped the Rams walkthrough prior to the Pats first Super Bowl. The league investigated and the video guy, the reporter, the newspaper, and the league never produced a tape. Even after being granted immunity, the videographer did not turn over any video of the Rams walkthrough (although he did have video from other games).

IIRC, after interviewing the people involved, the league determined that the Patriots video equipment could not have been used to make a tape of the walkthrough. They concluded that the team's equipment did not operate on battery power and the location where the equipment was stored prior to the SB was nowhere near a power supply. The newspaper and reporter later admitted that they had never seen any video of the walkthrough and had to retract the story and apologize to NE.

Like everything else, people can decide what did or did not happen on their own.

 

[Anarchy99]

I'd think he's a surefire HoF'er.

I just don't think his team has ever won a Super Bowl without an asterisk next to it. I'm not sure how to reconcile the two, but I'll let finer minds than mine do so.

Wasnt Spygate a bit after their first 2 wins?

Not really. The Rams swear they were being videotaped in their walk-through for the first Pats SB. And we'll never know, because the NFL destroyed the tapes.

At the time they said they had tapes going back to 2000.

Tapes of what? Wasn't it legal until 2006 to tape from the sidelines?

No, that's when sent out another reminder email/letter to teams based on complaints about the Patriots.

To the letter of the law (but against the spirit of the rules), the Pats got written up for Spygate based mostly on their first game in 2007 against the Jets.

NE (and it sounds like a few other teams) had engaged in taping coaches and signals during games (again, to be fair, the Patriots were leading the charge on this by far). From what I remember, there were rules and parameters for what teams could do to try to steal signals, and I believe there were provisions that teams could tape or photograph signals from designated spots in a stadium. Just not from on the field.

The league finally put their foot down and told teams that the practice of taping things from the field on game day would no longer be permitted. The Pats did it again, against one of their old coaches in Eric Mangini no less, and the rest is history.

New England was penalized more for ignoring the commissioner's warning letter more than anything else. Even though there were tapes that went back to 2000, the league looked the other way because they made no attempt to regulate or enforce what teams were doing with regard to taping.

Basically, the league made it known league wide that effective immediately videotaping from the field of play was 100% outlawed after the 2006 season. The Pats did it again in Game 1 of 2007. Just like everything else, people can decide for themselves how much the Patriots cheated prior to that one game, what impact their actions had, what they could have done with the information they obtained, and what competitive advantage they actually obtained.

I am not here to suggest they did nothing wrong, nor I am here to offer an opinion. Just trying to shed some light on what happened now almost 8 years ago.

 

[Soulfly3]

@ProFootballTalk 17s

17 seconds ago
A.J. Feeley says he witnessed Tom Brady and the Patriots using doctored footballs in 2004

 

[DocHolliday]

Cheaters do not belong in the HOF.

 

[Bri]

Cheaters do not belong in the HOF.

Have you ever followed sports before?

 

[Stealthycat]

Only one team has been fined and punished for breaking the rules in the last 15 years? You sure about that?

Jets for player tampering?

Falcons for pumping in noise?

Saints for bounty-gate ?

Do you really want to list team fines/penalties/infractions ?

 

[Insein]

Your pole is broken.

 

[DocHolliday]

Cheaters do not belong in the HOF.

Have you ever followed sports before?

No. Still don't. Why do you ask?

 

[jaybny2]

Who are all these other cheaters in the HOF ? Who and what did they do specifically?

http://profootballdaly.com/sammy-baugh-threw-deflated-footballs/

Ok that's one. Pats fans are implying it runs rampant. In fact somebody above stated 50% were cheaters. I don't think there's any proof that's the case.

I missed that comment, but I'd bet the over on that percentage. Do you really believe that over half of the league has never cheated? I don't. There's WAY too much competition at that level. There's no way I can believe that. If one wants to bag on him for lying, whatever, have at it. For cheating? You'll have a hard time applying that standard in today's NFL or the NFL of the past for that matter. Won't leave you much quality HOF material to choose from, that's for sure.

they all cheat. its all about the W. as long as no-one is physically injured, its not such a big deal.. cheating IS part of the game. is faking an injury to stop the clock cheating?

http://yourteamcheats.com/

http://yourteamcheats.com/CIN#Deflategate-1994

Ex-Bengals and retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake confessed in an interview that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," the ex-Bengals QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the "Midday 180" show on Nashville's 104.5 The Zone. "Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard.

"Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat. So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Blake says that he'd order ball boys to let air out of his footballs just before the start of games during his entire NFL career, which included time with the Cincinnati Bengals from 1994 to 1999.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Who are all these other cheaters in the HOF ? Who and what did they do specifically?

http://profootballdaly.com/sammy-baugh-threw-deflated-footballs/

Ok that's one. Pats fans are implying it runs rampant. In fact somebody above stated 50% were cheaters. I don't think there's any proof that's the case.

I missed that comment, but I'd bet the over on that percentage. Do you really believe that over half of the league has never cheated? I don't. There's WAY too much competition at that level. There's no way I can believe that. If one wants to bag on him for lying, whatever, have at it. For cheating? You'll have a hard time applying that standard in today's NFL or the NFL of the past for that matter. Won't leave you much quality HOF material to choose from, that's for sure.

they all cheat. its all about the W. as long as no-one is physically injured, its not such a big deal.. cheating IS part of the game. is faking an injury to stop the clock cheating?

http://yourteamcheats.com/

http://yourteamcheats.com/CIN#Deflategate-1994

Ex-Bengals and retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake confessed in an interview that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," the ex-Bengals QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the "Midday 180" show on Nashville's 104.5 The Zone. "Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard.

"Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat. So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Blake says that he'd order ball boys to let air out of his footballs just before the start of games during his entire NFL career, which included time with the Cincinnati Bengals from 1994 to 1999.

Steroids were common in baseball in the late 90's. Does that mean that Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa should be viewed as two of the three greatest hitters of all-time instead of looked down on as cheaters?

Doping was extremely common in cycling when Lance did it. Does that mean you should change your opinion of Lance?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Who are all these other cheaters in the HOF ? Who and what did they do specifically?

http://profootballdaly.com/sammy-baugh-threw-deflated-footballs/

Ok that's one. Pats fans are implying it runs rampant. In fact somebody above stated 50% were cheaters. I don't think there's any proof that's the case.

I missed that comment, but I'd bet the over on that percentage. Do you really believe that over half of the league has never cheated? I don't. There's WAY too much competition at that level. There's no way I can believe that. If one wants to bag on him for lying, whatever, have at it. For cheating? You'll have a hard time applying that standard in today's NFL or the NFL of the past for that matter. Won't leave you much quality HOF material to choose from, that's for sure.

they all cheat. its all about the W. as long as no-one is physically injured, its not such a big deal.. cheating IS part of the game. is faking an injury to stop the clock cheating?

http://yourteamcheats.com/

http://yourteamcheats.com/CIN#Deflategate-1994

Ex-Bengals and retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake confessed in an interview that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," the ex-Bengals QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the "Midday 180" show on Nashville's 104.5 The Zone. "Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard.

"Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat. So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Blake says that he'd order ball boys to let air out of his footballs just before the start of games during his entire NFL career, which included time with the Cincinnati Bengals from 1994 to 1999.

That GARBAGE again.

 

[Warrior]

Who are all these other cheaters in the HOF ? Who and what did they do specifically?

http://profootballdaly.com/sammy-baugh-threw-deflated-footballs/

Ok that's one. Pats fans are implying it runs rampant. In fact somebody above stated 50% were cheaters. I don't think there's any proof that's the case.

I missed that comment, but I'd bet the over on that percentage. Do you really believe that over half of the league has never cheated? I don't. There's WAY too much competition at that level. There's no way I can believe that. If one wants to bag on him for lying, whatever, have at it. For cheating? You'll have a hard time applying that standard in today's NFL or the NFL of the past for that matter. Won't leave you much quality HOF material to choose from, that's for sure.

they all cheat. its all about the W. as long as no-one is physically injured, its not such a big deal.. cheating IS part of the game. is faking an injury to stop the clock cheating?

http://yourteamcheats.com/

http://yourteamcheats.com/CIN#Deflategate-1994

Ex-Bengals and retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake confessed in an interview that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," the ex-Bengals QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the "Midday 180" show on Nashville's 104.5 The Zone. "Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard.

"Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat. So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Blake says that he'd order ball boys to let air out of his footballs just before the start of games during his entire NFL career, which included time with the Cincinnati Bengals from 1994 to 1999.

The Redskins cheat because Meriweather was flagged for helmet to helmet contact.

The Redskins cheat because they went over the cap in an uncapped year.

Got it. AWESOME website.

 

[ghostguy123]

Whaaaaaaaaa i hate the patriots whaaaaaaaaa

 

[Insein]

Who are all these other cheaters in the HOF ? Who and what did they do specifically?

http://profootballdaly.com/sammy-baugh-threw-deflated-footballs/

Ok that's one. Pats fans are implying it runs rampant. In fact somebody above stated 50% were cheaters. I don't think there's any proof that's the case.

I missed that comment, but I'd bet the over on that percentage. Do you really believe that over half of the league has never cheated? I don't. There's WAY too much competition at that level. There's no way I can believe that. If one wants to bag on him for lying, whatever, have at it. For cheating? You'll have a hard time applying that standard in today's NFL or the NFL of the past for that matter. Won't leave you much quality HOF material to choose from, that's for sure.

they all cheat. its all about the W. as long as no-one is physically injured, its not such a big deal.. cheating IS part of the game. is faking an injury to stop the clock cheating?

http://yourteamcheats.com/

http://yourteamcheats.com/CIN#Deflategate-1994



Ex-Bengals and retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake confessed in an interview that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," the ex-Bengals QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the "Midday 180" show on Nashville's 104.5 The Zone. "Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard.

"Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat. So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Blake says that he'd order ball boys to let air out of his footballs just before the start of games during his entire NFL career, which included time with the Cincinnati Bengals from 1994 to 1999.

Steroids were common in baseball in the late 90's. Does that mean that Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa should be viewed as two of the three greatest hitters of all-time instead of looked down on as cheaters?

Doping was extremely common in cycling when Lance did it. Does that mean you should change your opinion of Lance?

My opinion has never changed on them. Sosa and McGuire were two of the greatest hitters of all time. Lance is the greatest cyclist of all time. When a majority of the athletes are doping, it seems ridiculous to care about the ones that are better than all the rest.

 

[Ace zero1]

im a hawks fan and this is getting out of controll. the colts game was a blowout anyway. colts cant stop blount.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

My opinion has never changed on them. Sosa and McGuire were two of the greatest hitters of all time. Lance is the greatest cyclist of all time. When a majority of the athletes are doping, it seems ridiculous to care about the ones that are better than all the rest.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Who are all these other cheaters in the HOF ? Who and what did they do specifically?

http://profootballdaly.com/sammy-baugh-threw-deflated-footballs/

Ok that's one. Pats fans are implying it runs rampant. In fact somebody above stated 50% were cheaters. I don't think there's any proof that's the case.

I missed that comment, but I'd bet the over on that percentage. Do you really believe that over half of the league has never cheated? I don't. There's WAY too much competition at that level. There's no way I can believe that. If one wants to bag on him for lying, whatever, have at it. For cheating? You'll have a hard time applying that standard in today's NFL or the NFL of the past for that matter. Won't leave you much quality HOF material to choose from, that's for sure.

they all cheat. its all about the W. as long as no-one is physically injured, its not such a big deal.. cheating IS part of the game. is faking an injury to stop the clock cheating?

http://yourteamcheats.com/

http://yourteamcheats.com/CIN#Deflategate-1994

Ex-Bengals and retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake confessed in an interview that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," the ex-Bengals QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the "Midday 180" show on Nashville's 104.5 The Zone. "Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard.

"Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat. So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Blake says that he'd order ball boys to let air out of his footballs just before the start of games during his entire NFL career, which included time with the Cincinnati Bengals from 1994 to 1999.

Steroids were common in baseball in the late 90's. Does that mean that Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa should be viewed as two of the three greatest hitters of all-time instead of looked down on as cheaters?

Doping was extremely common in cycling when Lance did it. Does that mean you should change your opinion of Lance?

My opinion has never changed on them. Sosa and McGuire were two of the greatest hitters of all time. Lance is the greatest cyclist of all time. When a majority of the athletes are doping, it seems ridiculous to care about the ones that are better than all the rest.

How can you reconcile where they stand all-time? Even if they were doing it during McGuire's era, most baseball players all-time weren't juicing. Most cyclists all-time weren't doping. How can you say those guys are amongst the best all-time because they were better than a few guys in their short era where everyone was doing it?

Regardless, public perception entirely disagrees with you. It is kind of odd to me that public perception weighs so heavily against guys like A-Rod, McGuire, Lance, etc but seems to lean slightly to the side of defending Brady, with a majority still polling that they think Brady, a cheater, is a good role model. Brady got the same suspension as what the NFL gives out for taking performance enhancing drugs. It seems like the NFL is very much lumping the two forms of cheating together here.

Also, let's not forget that we're not necessarily talking about the same level of league wide cheating here. With juicing/doping we had tons of guys getting caught to make it clear that a LOT of people were doing it. With the deflation stuff, we have an ex backup QB saying it happened but not specifying if it was before/after the balls were checked by the refs. I don't think we can just make an assertion that Peyton, Montana, etc that Brady is commonly compared to were also cheating. I would say most people believe that they weren't.

 

[Fireinside]

No.