Dom Davis just interviewed on TV (1 Viewer)

[cr8f]

Passing on Bush looks REALLY good now with an injury like this with potential career ramifications. Say goodbye to most of the Texans front office..

What if Mario turns into an all Pro and Wali Lundy is not only servicable but also perhaps becomes an all pro...would the Bush passing be looked on as the same?

I will give you that one... If Lundy were to become a great back, and Mario is an All pro, then they they will look like geniuses.... Till then, they are going to get murdered by the fans..

I do hope Lundy does well... he has looked pretty good....

The fans won't care one lick if they passed on Bush, as long as they're winning. The fans won't care one lick if they drafted Bush, as long as they're losing.Drafting players might win some short-term approval, but in order to earn long-term fan satisfaction (as well as a regular paycheck), a coach has to win... and Mario Williams will help the Texans win more than Reggie Bush would. I posted elsewhere, but Reggie Bush *HAS TO* become the best RB in the entire NFL in order to justify the contract that he signed, while Mario Williams merely has to become one of the top 10 or so DEs. On-field contributions aside, in terms of salary cap ramifications, Mario Williams should have been a no-brainer. In fact, if I were the Saints, I would have passed on Bush at #2, too. Although, I definitely understand why the franchise drafted him- they are ultimately still a business, and while Bush might not be the best way to turn the franchise into a consistant winner, he's far and away the best way to generate some serious income.

This s the same politica arguent we see every day, but the end doesn't justify the means if the team is incompetent. If DD was injured to this extent and the team was in th dark about no cartilidge te fans won't forgive so easily. Fans are not so stupid.Why not trade down?

 

[Big Score]

Passing on Bush looks REALLY good now with an injury like this with potential career ramifications. Say goodbye to most of the Texans front office..

What if Mario turns into an all Pro and Wali Lundy is not only servicable but also perhaps becomes an all pro...would the Bush passing be looked on as the same?

I will give you that one... If Lundy were to become a great back, and Mario is an All pro, then they they will look like geniuses.... Till then, they are going to get murdered by the fans..

I do hope Lundy does well... he has looked pretty good....

The fans won't care one lick if they passed on Bush, as long as they're winning. The fans won't care one lick if they drafted Bush, as long as they're losing.Drafting players might win some short-term approval, but in order to earn long-term fan satisfaction (as well as a regular paycheck), a coach has to win... and Mario Williams will help the Texans win more than Reggie Bush would. I posted elsewhere, but Reggie Bush *HAS TO* become the best RB in the entire NFL in order to justify the contract that he signed, while Mario Williams merely has to become one of the top 10 or so DEs. On-field contributions aside, in terms of salary cap ramifications, Mario Williams should have been a no-brainer. In fact, if I were the Saints, I would have passed on Bush at #2, too. Although, I definitely understand why the franchise drafted him- they are ultimately still a business, and while Bush might not be the best way to turn the franchise into a consistant winner, he's far and away the best way to generate some serious income.

This s the same politica arguent we see every day, but the end doesn't justify the means if the team is incompetent. If DD was injured to this extent and the team was in th dark about no cartilidge te fans won't forgive so easily. Fans are not so stupid.Why not trade down?

You're right about SSOG harping on the size of the contract Bush signed. While today it is indeed the richest contract a rookie RB has signed, the fact of the matter is, it will not remain as such. Also by year three of the contract, it will look like a bargain for the Saints.As far as why didn't the Texans trade down? They let it be known they were open to trading out of the 1st spot, but got no takers.

 

[Todem]

Passing on Bush looks REALLY good now with an injury like this with potential career ramifications. Say goodbye to most of the Texans front office..

They already fired the GM.

 

[Koya]

He said he almost has bone on bone. He said whatever it takes to get him better. He said he needs alot more time to heel.

I'd say DD's football career is over. :( I don't think there is any amount of time off that will help this to heal. Cartlidge does not grow back. Once it's gone, it's gone. He can always get an artificial knee, but he won't be able to play football on it.

2 words-stem cells

That might work in a few years. I don't think we're there yet (with humans), are we?

No we aren't. At least here in the US.

So you are saying that the Houston RB mess is George Bush's fault? Makes sense.

 

[firecrackerfreakshow]

As a Texans fan, I can live with them not taking Bush, with or without davis healthy. In a division with Peyton Manning, Leftwich, and now Vince Young if you can't pressure the QB, doesn't matter how many yards you run for, you will be trailing all game. Good RB's come around fairly often, will there be another Bush likely not, but Mario Williams will be fine.

I am a Davis owner as well, I'll add Morency or Lundy and hope for the best.

 

[Otis]

What if Mario turns into an all Pro and Wali Lundy is not only servicable but also perhaps becomes an all pro...

... and what if Reggie is merely a second-ballot HOFer? Then I'd say the Texans came out of the draft just fine.

This will go down as one of the big draft-day blunders.

 

[Big Score]

As a Texans fan, I can live with them not taking Bush, with or without davis healthy. In a division with Peyton Manning, Leftwich, and now Vince Young if you can't pressure the QB, doesn't matter how many yards you run for, you will be trailing all game. Good RB's come around fairly often, will there be another Bush likely not, but Mario Williams will be fine. I am a Davis owner as well, I'll add Morency or Lundy and hope for the best.

You make a great point that I think most hard core fans will be able to see & apperciate.However to the Johnny Come Lately casual NFL fan, passing on Bush with DD likely headed to IR, is going to go over like a lead ballon filled with rocks.

 

[JayK]

I've been hyping Wali Lundy for a long time but if I'm a Houston fan, I'm throwing up every time I see Mario Williams get stood straight up while Reggie Bush goes off.J

Honestly Joe, during the draft I was shocked that the Texans passed over Bush (I'm a Houston fan). Since I've had time to cool off and see more of Mario and his play/chemistry on the team I'm glad the Texans made the choice that they did.Kubiak saw a defense in shambles, and it really was horrible. Adding Mario and Ryans with the first two picks and switching to a 4-3 already seems to be paying SOME dividends. We're staying more competitive in games.Most Texans fans I know are perfectly happy by now with the Mario pick. Afterall we all just want to win, no matter how. Reggie might have made the team we root for flashier, but if Mario and Ryans keep us within reach and we have a chance to win each game, we'll all be happier for that.

Yeah, but even if Mario ends up being the better pick, it was still a major blunder. With Bush as the All World #1 pick in everyone's mind, they could probably have traded down, gotten something extra (an extra later round pick?) and STILL gotten Mario later in the draft.

 

[pinequick]

I've been hyping Wali Lundy for a long time but if I'm a Houston fan, I'm throwing up every time I see Mario Williams get stood straight up while Reggie Bush goes off.J

Honestly Joe, during the draft I was shocked that the Texans passed over Bush (I'm a Houston fan). Since I've had time to cool off and see more of Mario and his play/chemistry on the team I'm glad the Texans made the choice that they did.Kubiak saw a defense in shambles, and it really was horrible. Adding Mario and Ryans with the first two picks and switching to a 4-3 already seems to be paying SOME dividends. We're staying more competitive in games.Most Texans fans I know are perfectly happy by now with the Mario pick. Afterall we all just want to win, no matter how. Reggie might have made the team we root for flashier, but if Mario and Ryans keep us within reach and we have a chance to win each game, we'll all be happier for that.

Yeah, but even if Mario ends up being the better pick, it was still a major blunder. With Bush as the All World #1 pick in everyone's mind, they could probably have traded down, gotten something extra (an extra later round pick?) and STILL gotten Mario later in the draft.

New Orleans was happy to sit tight and take whoever Houston didn't want between Bush or M. Williams. This isn't like fantasy football--finding a trading partner is hard. And had Houston dealt below #2 overall (which they would have had to have done, since NO was staying put no matter what), they would have ended up with neither Bush nor M. Williams. So Houston took the guy they really wanted--it just wouldn't have worked any other way.

 

[SSOG]

This s the same politica arguent we see every day, but the end doesn't justify the means if the team is incompetent. If DD was injured to this extent and the team was in th dark about no cartilidge te fans won't forgive so easily. Fans are not so stupid.

Actually, the end DOES justify the means if the team is incompetant. Winning is the end, and the draft/free agency/coaching are the means. Houston could have drafted an entire minor league soccer team with all of their draft picks, and if they went 14-2 this year, those draft picks would be totally justified.

You're right about SSOG harping on the size of the contract Bush signed. While today it is indeed the richest contract a rookie RB has signed, the fact of the matter is, it will not remain as such. Also by year three of the contract, it will look like a bargain for the Saints.As far as why didn't the Texans trade down? They let it be known they were open to trading out of the 1st spot, but got no takers.

LaDanian Tomlinson signed a contract... I think 2 years ago... that was at the time the largest contract in the NFL. It's currently the third largest contract in the NFL. That means that, in three years, Reggie Bush will likely only have to be the THIRD BEST RB in the NFL. Yup, that'll look like a real bargain there.I'm not saying that this is the richest contract a ROOKIE RB has signed... I'm saying this is the biggest contract ANY RB IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL HAS SIGNED. You know that monster deal that Shaun Alexander got after running for... what, 1800 yards and 27 TDs last year? Bush's is bigger. What about that ridiculous contract that Tomlinson got for topping 2,000 total yards season-after-season and carrying a sorry franchise on his back? Bush's is bigger. Or that blockbuster contract Portis got after becoming the third player in NFL history to rush for 1500+ yards in both of his first two seasons? Reggie Bush's is bigger. Tell me honestly- would you rather have Reggie Bush, an unproven RB who has never taken an NFL snap and who probably won't get more than 15 touches a game, or Tomlinson, Alexander, or Portis- proven All-Pros who year after year have carried their teams on their backs?Like I said, Reggie Bush is going to need to become one of the top-5 NFL RBs in order to justify that contract and draft position.

 

[Buckna]

Passing on Bush looks REALLY good now with an injury like this with potential career ramifications. Say goodbye to most of the Texans front office..

Agreed. I think Charlie Casserly had already seen the xrays and decided to go ahead and get out while the getting was good....J

No way. It was widely known Casserly was on his way out the door as far back as January, everyone in the front office is new this year. The Texans completely cleaned house from the Capers era.

 

[Buckna]

I've been hyping Wali Lundy for a long time but if I'm a Houston fan, I'm throwing up every time I see Mario Williams get stood straight up while Reggie Bush goes off.J

Honestly Joe, during the draft I was shocked that the Texans passed over Bush (I'm a Houston fan). Since I've had time to cool off and see more of Mario and his play/chemistry on the team I'm glad the Texans made the choice that they did.Kubiak saw a defense in shambles, and it really was horrible. Adding Mario and Ryans with the first two picks and switching to a 4-3 already seems to be paying SOME dividends. We're staying more competitive in games.Most Texans fans I know are perfectly happy by now with the Mario pick. Afterall we all just want to win, no matter how. Reggie might have made the team we root for flashier, but if Mario and Ryans keep us within reach and we have a chance to win each game, we'll all be happier for that.

Yeah, but even if Mario ends up being the better pick, it was still a major blunder. With Bush as the All World #1 pick in everyone's mind, they could probably have traded down, gotten something extra (an extra later round pick?) and STILL gotten Mario later in the draft.

New Orleans was happy to sit tight and take whoever Houston didn't want between Bush or M. Williams. This isn't like fantasy football--finding a trading partner is hard. And had Houston dealt below #2 overall (which they would have had to have done, since NO was staying put no matter what), they would have ended up with neither Bush nor M. Williams. So Houston took the guy they really wanted--it just wouldn't have worked any other way.

Thank you, I'm getting very tired trying to explain this in every Houston thread that comes up.

 

[Big Score]

LaDanian Tomlinson signed a contract... I think 2 years ago... that was at the time the largest contract in the NFL. It's currently the third largest contract in the NFL. That means that, in three years, Reggie Bush will likely only have to be the THIRD BEST RB in the NFL. Yup, that'll look like a real bargain there.

I'm not saying that this is the richest contract a ROOKIE RB has signed... I'm saying this is the biggest contract ANY RB IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL HAS SIGNED. You know that monster deal that Shaun Alexander got after running for... what, 1800 yards and 27 TDs last year? Bush's is bigger. What about that ridiculous contract that Tomlinson got for topping 2,000 total yards season-after-season and carrying a sorry franchise on his back? Bush's is bigger. Or that blockbuster contract Portis got after becoming the third player in NFL history to rush for 1500+ yards in both of his first two seasons? Reggie Bush's is bigger. Tell me honestly- would you rather have Reggie Bush, an unproven RB who has never taken an NFL snap and who probably won't get more than 15 touches a game, or Tomlinson, Alexander, or Portis- proven All-Pros who year after year have carried their teams on their backs?

Like I said, Reggie Bush is going to need to become one of the top-5 NFL RBs in order to justify that contract and draft position.

We understand what you're saying SSOG. Regardless of Bush signing the richest RB contract in NFL history, in 2006, I will give you a 100% guarantee that it will not stand as the richest RB contract in the history of the NFL. We'll even take LT2's contract as an example and say that in year three, the Bush contract stands as the third highest for a RB. So in year three, from only an NFL player ROI, Bush needs to be the third best RB in the NFL.

But a players worth these days, far transecnds what they do on the field.

Look at Michael Vick. I think he is the highest paid QB in the NFL, but he is certainly not the best QB in the NFL. However, Vick's total ROI for Arthur Blank & the Falcons, is worth every penny of his contract and then some.

I think we will see the same with Bush. His ROI is not solely dependent on what he does on the field. Benson & the Saints are already reaping the benefits of Bush being a Saint, in merchandising revenue, season tickets sold and sold out games.

Bush has not set one foot on the field in a real football game and he has already made Benson millions. I would say the day Bush signed that contract, the valuation of the Saints franchise increased by several million as well.

McNair & the Texans are not seeing that same intangible ROI with Williams & they never will.

Do you understand how narrowing your view to only look at what a player does on the field and comparing that to the players contract, just gives us half the picture?

 

[SSOG]

LaDanian Tomlinson signed a contract... I think 2 years ago... that was at the time the largest contract in the NFL. It's currently the third largest contract in the NFL. That means that, in three years, Reggie Bush will likely only have to be the THIRD BEST RB in the NFL. Yup, that'll look like a real bargain there.

I'm not saying that this is the richest contract a ROOKIE RB has signed... I'm saying this is the biggest contract ANY RB IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL HAS SIGNED. You know that monster deal that Shaun Alexander got after running for... what, 1800 yards and 27 TDs last year? Bush's is bigger. What about that ridiculous contract that Tomlinson got for topping 2,000 total yards season-after-season and carrying a sorry franchise on his back? Bush's is bigger. Or that blockbuster contract Portis got after becoming the third player in NFL history to rush for 1500+ yards in both of his first two seasons? Reggie Bush's is bigger. Tell me honestly- would you rather have Reggie Bush, an unproven RB who has never taken an NFL snap and who probably won't get more than 15 touches a game, or Tomlinson, Alexander, or Portis- proven All-Pros who year after year have carried their teams on their backs?

Like I said, Reggie Bush is going to need to become one of the top-5 NFL RBs in order to justify that contract and draft position.

We understand what you're saying SSOG. Regardless of Bush signing the richest RB contract in NFL history, in 2006, I will give you a 100% guarantee that it will not stand as the richest RB contract in the history of the NFL. We'll even take LT2's contract as an example and say that in year three, the Bush contract stands as the third highest for a RB. So in year three, from only an NFL player ROI, Bush needs to be the third best RB in the NFL.

But a players worth these days, far transecnds what they do on the field.

Look at Michael Vick. I think he is the highest paid QB in the NFL, but he is certainly not the best QB in the NFL. However, Vick's total ROI for Arthur Blank & the Falcons, is worth every penny of his contract and then some.

I think we will see the same with Bush. His ROI is not solely dependent on what he does on the field. Benson & the Saints are already reaping the benefits of Bush being a Saint, in merchandising revenue, season tickets sold and sold out games.

Bush has not set one foot on the field in a real football game and he has already made Benson millions. I would say the day Bush signed that contract, the valuation of the Saints franchise increased by several million as well.

McNair & the Texans are not seeing that same intangible ROI with Williams & they never will.

Do you understand how narrowing your view to only look at what a player does on the field and comparing that to the players contract, just gives us half the picture?

I completely agree with your statement that Reggie Bush's value TO THE OWNER is more than just what he does on the field. However, since it's the Coach and GM who are drafting, a player's value is only what he does on the field. For all the revenue Michael Vick generates, he certainly didn't do much to help Dan Reeves' job security, now did he? And he certainly hasn't stopped Falcons fans from clamoring for Matt Schaub, has he?In terms of value to a franchise, measured entirely in terms of wins and losses (rather than the owner's pocketbook), Mario Williams was the better choice. Bob McNair has already said that he'd rather have a successful franchise than a valuable franchise, anyway.

 

[AnonymousBob]

What are we arguing in this thread?

 

[Buckna]

What are we arguing in this thread?

unfortunately, the same thing that every Houston thread devolves into, a draft Bush vs Mario argument.

 

[AnonymousBob]

What are we arguing in this thread?

unfortunately, the same thing that every Houston thread devolves into, a draft Bush vs Mario argument.

Oh. Well this was a good thread until it was hijacked. Hopefully we can get it back on track.

 

[Buckna]

It's too bad about Davis, as a Houston homer I always liked him. It appears the Capers era has its fair share of casualties and Davis is one of them (Carr may be able to turn it around but I doubt it.) They leaned on him so hard the last 2 years his body just couldn't take it.

It will be interesting to see how the RB spot plays out over the year. People are high on Lundy but I can't see him having lasting value for dynasty purposes. If Kubiak succeeds in putting in place the Denver system then Houston will be an ever revolving door of RB's.

 

[Big Score]

LaDanian Tomlinson signed a contract... I think 2 years ago... that was at the time the largest contract in the NFL. It's currently the third largest contract in the NFL. That means that, in three years, Reggie Bush will likely only have to be the THIRD BEST RB in the NFL. Yup, that'll look like a real bargain there.

I'm not saying that this is the richest contract a ROOKIE RB has signed... I'm saying this is the biggest contract ANY RB IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL HAS SIGNED. You know that monster deal that Shaun Alexander got after running for... what, 1800 yards and 27 TDs last year? Bush's is bigger. What about that ridiculous contract that Tomlinson got for topping 2,000 total yards season-after-season and carrying a sorry franchise on his back? Bush's is bigger. Or that blockbuster contract Portis got after becoming the third player in NFL history to rush for 1500+ yards in both of his first two seasons? Reggie Bush's is bigger. Tell me honestly- would you rather have Reggie Bush, an unproven RB who has never taken an NFL snap and who probably won't get more than 15 touches a game, or Tomlinson, Alexander, or Portis- proven All-Pros who year after year have carried their teams on their backs?

Like I said, Reggie Bush is going to need to become one of the top-5 NFL RBs in order to justify that contract and draft position.

We understand what you're saying SSOG. Regardless of Bush signing the richest RB contract in NFL history, in 2006, I will give you a 100% guarantee that it will not stand as the richest RB contract in the history of the NFL. We'll even take LT2's contract as an example and say that in year three, the Bush contract stands as the third highest for a RB. So in year three, from only an NFL player ROI, Bush needs to be the third best RB in the NFL.

But a players worth these days, far transcends what they do on the field.

Look at Michael Vick. I think he is the highest paid QB in the NFL, but he is certainly not the best QB in the NFL. However, Vick's total ROI for Arthur Blank & the Falcons, is worth every penny of his contract and then some.

I think we will see the same with Bush. His ROI is not solely dependent on what he does on the field. Benson & the Saints are already reaping the benefits of Bush being a Saint, in merchandising revenue, season tickets sold and sold out games.

Bush has not set one foot on the field in a real football game and he has already made Benson millions. I would say the day Bush signed that contract, the valuation of the Saints franchise increased by several million as well.

McNair & the Texans are not seeing that same intangible ROI with Williams & they never will.

Do you understand how narrowing your view to only look at what a player does on the field and comparing that to the players contract, just gives us half the picture?

I completely agree with your statement that Reggie Bush's value TO THE OWNER is more than just what he does on the field. However, since it's the Coach and GM who are drafting, a player's value is only what he does on the field. For all the revenue Michael Vick generates, he certainly didn't do much to help Dan Reeves' job security, now did he? And he certainly hasn't stopped Falcons fans from clamoring for Matt Schaub, has he?In terms of value to a franchise, measured entirely in terms of wins and losses (rather than the owner's pocketbook), Mario Williams was the better choice. Bob McNair has already said that he'd rather have a successful franchise than a valuable franchise, anyway.

While I know you're hip to the Broncos, it's obvious that you're big time out of touch as to what's going on down here in Atlanta.Dan Reeves was unfortunately a lame duck coach hired by the Clampetts (we have always affectionately referred to the Smith's as the Clampetts. Rankin Sr was Jed Clampett and of course Rankin Jr was Jethro).

When Art Blank bought the team, he wanted to revitalize the franchise. A new Coach was one of Blanks moves. Nothing against Reeves, just a new owner wanting to put his stamp on the team.

As far as "Falcons fans clamoring for Matt Schaub" you're way, way, wayyyy off base. I have no idea where you're getting that from. Nothing could be further from the truth. All I saw at the TC's was the fans crowding up to the field anytime Vick was around. Didn't see that with Schaub. At the Georgia Dome when Vick plays, it's standing room only. When Vick doesn't play, if you're in the nose bleeds, you can work your way down to field level.

I'm also not sure how you can definitively say Williams will account for more wins with the Texans than Bush would have. Bush is a difference maker. Returning a kick or punt for a TD, catching a TD, or running a TD in, are all immediate point events over the course of a game.

We know Bush can do this.

Williams will have some influence on the games he is in, but the difference will be nowhere near as tangible or measurable.

Considering how much each of these players got in their respective rookie contracts, there is no doubt that Bush is worth far more to the Saints, than Williams is to the Texans. Both in instant fan gratification & the bottom line of the business side of the respective franchises, the ROI for Bush will dwarf the ROI for Williams...no matter how you slice it.

 

[CiscoKid]

As far as "Falcons fans clamoring for Matt Schaub" you're way, way, wayyyy off base.

Wow - good commentary, but this thread sure strayed a bit from the "bone on bone" focus about the status of Dom's knee. With the roster cutdowns tomorrow, I really thought that there would be an update released today. I guess we'll know tomorrow for sure...

 

[Buckna]

FWIW, on my ride home from work Sports Radio 610 here in Houston was saying it's almost a certainty that Davis goes on IR here in the next day or two to get the Texans to the 53 man roster requirement.

They also said the Texans will be looking hard at the waiver wire for LB'ers and then linemen on both sides of the ball.

 

[Big Score]

As far as "Falcons fans clamoring for Matt Schaub" you're way, way, wayyyy off base.

Wow - good commentary, but this thread sure strayed a bit from the "bone on bone" focus about the status of Dom's knee. With the roster cutdowns tomorrow, I really thought that there would be an update released today. I guess we'll know tomorrow for sure...

What can I say? That's the direction SSOG took it On my part, I apologize for contributing to the hi-jack