Dominant DE's and MLB tackles (1 Viewer)

[Jiggyonthehut]

I was browsing through the stats at NFL.com and something struck me. As a relative newcomer to IDP, I'm not sure if this is common knowledge but I'll take my shot at it now. It seems those teams with DE's that had monstrous numbers of tackles had Middle Linebackers with equally large stats. For example the top five DE's in terms of tackle numbers were the followingOrpheus Roye (CLE) ---> Andra Davis #4 in tacklesAaron Kampman (GB)--> Nick Barnett #6 in tackles Jason Taylor (MIA)------> Zach Taylor #3 in tacklesMichael Strahan (NYG)--> Antonio Pierce #22 in tacklesJohn Henderson (JAC)--> Mike Peterson #7 in tacklesTy Warren (NE)----------> Not sure who took Brushci's place for most of seasonOsi Umenyiora (NYG)----> Antonio Pierce #22 in tacklesAaron Schobel (BUF)-----> London Fletcher #2 in tacklesAlvin McKinley (CLE)-----> Andra Davis #4 in tacklesKyle Vanden Bosch (TEN)> Keith Bulluck #8 in tacklesTwo apparent patterns can be seen here. There seems to be a correlation between high DE tackles and high LB tackles. However, the anomaly here seems to be the Giants and their two dominant DE's which seemingly blew up plenty of plays in the backfield which dropped Antonio Pierce's tackle numbers. However, in this top-10 list, we do have contradiction to that theory. Cleveland's set of Orpheus Roye and Alvin McKinley teamed up for more tackles than the Osi/Strahan pair but that didnt stop Andra Davis from racking up the tackles.Any insight would be most appreciated.

 

[inbreeder]

Interesting. But I'm not sure I understand why it necessarily follows that a DL with good tackle numbers will make that team's MLB a big tackler.A high tackling DL usually combines great pass rush skills and double digit sacks with good run defending skills. They're almost always 4-3 DE, but occasionally a 3-4 end (Roye, Seymour) or 4-3 UT (Coleman, Henderson) fits the bill. Generally speaking, I think that a big run stuffing DT that commands a double team and keeps his MLB clean is the best indicator of LB success. And playing for a crappy team who's behind a good bit doesn't hurt. I'd think that a good run stopping DE would hinder a LB tackle production rather than help.But you've got me curious.Here are the top ten MLB/ILB solo tacklers to date in 2005. (Bulluck is a WLB)VilmaUrlacherQuarlesEdwardsThomasFletcherPetersonTrotterBarnettBrackettNearly every one of those guys has at least one big DT and usually a very good one protecting him.Vilma - DeWayne Robertson has improved this yearUrlacher - Tommie Harris is a Pro BowlerQuarles - Booger is underrated.Edwards - Jamal Williams is a cornerstone of that 3-4 defenseThomas - Traylor is reasonable, although nothing specialFletcher - Sam AdamsPeterson - Henderson and Marcus StroudTrotter - Mike Patterson has been awesome as a rookieBarnett - Grady Jackson is a premier fatmanBrackett - Corey Simon is the main reason for the Colt defensive improvementOf the top 10 solo tacklers at DE, 7 have double digit sacks. All ten have more than 5 sacks. Of the next 10 top DE tacklers, only 1 (KVB) has more than 10 sacks, and only 4 have more than 5. Not a bad thought, but unless someone with a solid understanding of defensive schemes can help me understand how a run stopping DE will give a MLB more tackling opportunity, I think the correlation is likely coincidence.Anybody else?

 

[stevec]

We also need to realize that every sack is also a tackle, and those tackles wouldn't normally be expected to go to the MLB/ILB.Maybe looks at tackles-sacks?

 

[inbreeder]

We also need to realize that every sack is also a tackle, and those tackles wouldn't normally be expected to go to the MLB/ILB.

Maybe looks at tackles-sacks?

Well, here's the Top 75 DL Solo Tackles less Sacks. I'm not computer savvy enough to transfer the spreadsheet to this post in an easy to read fashion. If somebody else does, I'm more than willing to learn.In any event, stevec's point is well taken and why I commented that the top 10 DL were mostly sack artists, while the next ten were not. This chart (if it was a little more readable) suggests a couple of things which were probably already evident to most of us.

1/ 3 down DL and the top UT/DT populate the top of the list

2/ The sack artists slide. Big drops for Vanden Bosch, Burgess, and Allen.

This chart is how I tend to value DL. Find the DE who play well in run support and are good bets to get double digits tackles. And a DT who gets 50 solo tackles could be gold if they're able to mix in some big plays.

That's your playbook for DL in a standard league.

Top 10 DE solo tacklers less sacks:

1 Aaron Kampman

2 Michael Strahan

3 Aaron Schobel

4 Will Smith

5 Jason Taylor

6 James Hall

7 Charles Grant

8 Marques Douglas

9 Bobby Hamilton

10 Robert Mathis (a bit of a surprise to me)

The chart also suggests some run stopping DE who might be good targets in 2006 if they can improve their sack numbers. Bobby Hamilton moves up 14 spots after subtracting sacks. Charles Grant and Grant Wistrom could be prime candidates for rebound seasons. They're still showing good run support numbers. Darrion Scott, Tony Hargrove, and DeWayne White look like potential big tackle guys if the light goes on and/or they get the PT.

Anyway, here's the messy table...

First column is Rank After Subtracting Sacks, second is Rank Before. Second to last column is Total Solos Less Sacks, last column is All Tackles Less Sacks.

BTW, it's pretty funny that Jevon Ke#### gets partially axed by the language filter.

Top 150 Defensive Lineman Tackles Less Sacks

Rank After Subt Sacks Rank Before Subt Sacks Player Tackles Assists Sacked Solos Total

Total a Less Tackles

Tackles QB Sacks Less

Sacks

1 1 Roye, Orpheus CLE DT 58 19 77 4.00 54.00 73.00

2 3 Henderson, John JAC DT 50 16 66 1.00 49.00 65.00

3 4 Kampman, Aaron GBP DE 50 21 71 5.50 44.50 65.50

4 2 Strahan, Michael NYG DE 52 17 69 11.50 40.50 57.50

5 12 Pickett, Ryan STL DT 43 16 59 2.50 40.50 56.50

6 5 Schobel, Aaron BUF DE 48 14 62 10.00 38.00 52.00

7 15 Reed, James NYJ DT 39 17 56 1.00 38.00 55.00

8 23 Wilfork, Vince NEP DT 38 12 50 0.00 38.00 50.00

9 9 Smith, Will NOS DE 45 12 57 7.50 37.50 49.50

10 6 Taylor, Jason MIA DE 48 20 68 11.00 37.00 57.00

11 14 Hall, James DET DE 40 7 47 3.00 37.00 44.00

12 17 Grant, Charles NOS DE 39 16 55 2.50 36.50 52.50

13 22 Williams, Pat MIN DT 38 21 59 1.50 36.50 57.50

14 28 Douglas, Marques SFO DE 37 14 51 1.00 36.00 50.00

15 29 Warren, Ty NEP DE 37 27 64 1.00 36.00 63.00

16 30 Hamilton, Bobby OAK DE 37 5 42 1.00 36.00 41.00

17 32 Young, Brian NOS DT 36 11 47 0.00 36.00 47.00

18 7 Mathis, Robert IND DE 46 10 56 11.00 35.00 45.00

19 13 Suggs, Terrell BAL DE 41 18 59 6.00 35.00 53.00

20 16 Payne, Seth HOU DT 39 9 48 4.00 35.00 44.00

21 19 McKinley, Alvin CLE DT 39 21 60 4.00 35.00 56.00

22 21 Hargrove, Tony STL DE 38 7 45 3.00 35.00 42.00

23 20 Smith, Justin CIN DE 39 17 56 4.50 34.50 51.50

24 11 Allen, Jared KCC DE 44 7 51 10.00 34.00 41.00

25 34 Wistrom, Grant SEA DE 36 11 47 2.00 34.00 45.00

26 39 Williams, Jamal SDC DT 34 10 44 0.00 34.00 44.00

27 38 Smith, Robaire HOU DE 35 21 56 1.50 33.50 54.50

28 24 Okeafor, Chike ARI DE 38 10 48 5.00 33.00 43.00

29 40 Washington, Ted OAK DT 33 9 42 0.00 33.00 42.00

30 42 Jackson, Grady GBP DT 33 12 45 0.50 32.50 44.50

31 10 Umenyiora, Osi NYG DE 44 20 64 12.50 31.50 51.50

32 33 Scott, Darrion MIN DE 36 15 51 4.50 31.50 46.50

33 37 Hicks, Eric KCC DE 35 9 44 3.50 31.50 40.50

34 8 Burgess, Derrick OAK DE 45 6 51 14.00 31.00 37.00

35 54 Hovan, Chris TBB DT 31 8 39 0.00 31.00 39.00

36 18 Abraham, John NYJ DE 39 11 50 8.50 30.50 41.50

37 26 Little, Leonard STL DE 37 10 47 6.50 30.50 40.50

38 36 Brown, Alex CHI DE 35 5 40 5.00 30.00 35.00

39 46 Starks, Randy TEN DT 31 12 43 1.50 29.50 41.50

40 31 Ke####, Jevon PHI DE 36 2 38 7.00 29.00 31.00

41 53 Haynesworth, Albert TEN DT 31 16 47 2.00 29.00 45.00

42 56 Stroud, Marcus JAC DT 30 10 40 1.00 29.00 39.00

43 27 Bernard, Robert SEA DT 37 9 46 8.50 28.50 37.50

44 52 Ellis, Shaun NYJ DE 31 7 38 2.50 28.50 35.50

45 57 Gregg, Kelly BAL DT 30 21 51 1.50 28.50 49.50

46 43 Kelly, Tommy OAK DE 32 6 38 4.00 28.00 34.00

47 51 Patterson, Mike PHI DT 31 6 37 3.50 27.50 33.50

48 41 Daniels, Philip WAS DE 33 9 42 6.00 27.00 36.00

49 47 Brock, Raheem IND DE 31 8 39 4.00 27.00 35.00

50 69 Clancy, Kendrick NYG DT 28 5 33 1.00 27.00 32.00

51 50 Gbaja-Biamila, Kabeer GBP DE 31 15 46 4.50 26.50 41.50

52 35 Ogunleye, Adewale CHI DE 36 4 40 10.00 26.00 30.00

53 45 Holliday, Vonnie MIA DE 31 14 45 5.00 26.00 40.00

54 58 Seymour, Richard NEP DE 29 11 40 3.00 26.00 37.00

55 60 Spires, Greg TBB DE 29 9 38 3.00 26.00 35.00

56 62 Griffin, Cornelius WAS DT 29 1 30 3.00 26.00 27.00

57 65 Browning, John KCC DT 28 3 31 2.00 26.00 29.00

58 76 Simon, Corey IND DT 26 9 35 0.00 26.00 35.00

59 77 Kemoeatu, Ma'ake BAL DT 26 9 35 0.00 26.00 35.00

60 48 Kerney, Patrick ATL DE 31 13 44 5.50 25.50 38.50

61 71 Smith, Aaron PIT DE 27 7 34 2.00 25.00 32.00

62 79 Buckner, Brentson CAR DT 25 7 32 0.00 25.00 32.00

63 80 Thomas, Hollis PHI DT 25 7 32 0.00 25.00 32.00

64 25 Vanden Bosch, Kyle TEN DE 37 23 60 12.50 24.50 47.50

65 49 Peppers, Julius CAR DE 31 10 41 6.50 24.50 34.50

66 68 Robertson, Dewayne NYJ DT 28 15 43 3.50 24.50 39.50

67 61 Carter, Kevin MIA DE 29 14 43 5.00 24.00 38.00

68 44 Fisher, Bryce SEA DE 32 10 42 8.50 23.50 33.50

69 67 Sapp, Warren OAK DT 28 4 32 4.50 23.50 27.50

70 73 Castillo, Luis SDC DT 27 10 37 3.50 23.50 33.50

71 64 Cole, Trent PHI DE 28 6 34 5.00 23.00 29.00

72 74 Pryce, Trevor DEN DE 26 2 28 3.00 23.00 25.00

73 75 Harris, Tommie CHI DT 26 4 30 3.00 23.00 27.00

74 90 Hampton, Casey PIT DT 23 16 39 0.00 23.00 39.00

75 88 Wynn, Renaldo WAS DE 23 6 29 0.50 22.50 28.50

76 85 Weaver, Anthony BAL DE 24 5 29 2.00 22.00 27.00

77 96 Kalu, Ndukwe PHI DE 23 4 27 1.00 22.00 26.00

78 106 Lewis, Damione STL DT 22 5 27 0.00 22.00 27.00

79 63 Spicer, Paul JAC DE 29 7 36 7.50 21.50 28.50

80 66 Reagor, Montae IND DT 28 9 37 6.50 21.50 30.50

81 86 Kelsay, Chris BUF DE 24 17 41 2.50 21.50 38.50

82 94 Williams, Kevin MIN DT 23 8 31 1.50 21.50 29.50

83 81 Denney, Ryan BUF DE 25 17 42 4.00 21.00 38.00

84 98 Anderson, Tim BUF DT 22 14 36 1.00 21.00 35.00

85 100 Redding, Cory DET DE 22 7 29 1.00 21.00 28.00

86 103 Johnson, Jarret BAL DE 22 12 34 1.50 20.50 32.50

87 105 Green, Jarvis NEP DE 22 10 32 1.50 20.50 30.50

88 110 Whitehead, Willie NOS DE 21 10 31 0.50 20.50 30.50

89 55 Freeney, Dwight IND DE 30 3 33 10.00 20.00 23.00

90 72 Rucker, Mike CAR DE 27 10 37 7.00 20.00 30.00

91 99 Canty, Chris DAL DE 22 9 31 2.00 20.00 29.00

92 102 White, Dewayne TBB DE 22 5 27 2.00 20.00 25.00

93 104 Myers, Michael DEN DT 22 6 28 2.00 20.00 26.00

94 111 Thornton, John CIN DT 21 16 37 1.00 20.00 36.00

95 114 Johnson, Travis HOU DE 21 3 24 1.00 20.00 23.00

96 123 Sullivan, Johnathan NOS DT 20 9 29 0.00 20.00 29.00

97 59 Coleman, Rod ATL DT 29 5 34 9.50 19.50 24.50

98 82 Howard, Darren NOS DE 24 9 33 4.50 19.50 28.50

99 92 Jenkins, Cullen GBP DE 23 10 33 3.50 19.50 29.50

100 101 Adams, Anthony SFO DT 22 13 35 2.50 19.50 32.50

101 95 Long, Rien TEN DT 23 5 28 4.00 19.00 24.00

102 107 Geathers, Robert CIN DE 22 4 26 3.00 19.00 23.00

103 109 Walker, Gary HOU DE 21 10 31 2.00 19.00 29.00

104 112 Kennedy, Jimmy STL DT 21 9 30 2.00 19.00 28.00

105 113 Cole, Colin GBP DT 21 15 36 2.00 19.00 34.00

106 117 Ferguson, Jason DAL DT 20 9 29 1.00 19.00 28.00

107 118 Tuck, Justin NYG DE 20 5 25 1.00 19.00 24.00

108 83 Berry, Bert ARI DE 24 10 34 5.50 18.50 28.50

109 84 Rogers, Shaun DET DT 24 8 32 5.50 18.50 26.50

110 127 Salave'a, Joe WAS DT 19 7 26 0.50 18.50 25.50

111 70 Rice, Simeon TBB DE 28 6 34 10.00 18.00 24.00

112 78 Young, Bryant SFO DT 26 4 30 8.00 18.00 22.00

113 87 Meier, Rob JAC DT 24 6 30 6.00 18.00 24.00

114 115 Zgonina, Jeff MIA DT 20 17 37 2.00 18.00 35.00

115 124 Traylor, Keith MIA DT 20 10 30 2.00 18.00 28.00

116 89 Laboy, Travis TEN DE 23 11 34 5.50 17.50 28.50

117 91 Hayward, Reggie JAC DE 23 6 29 5.50 17.50 23.50

118 125 Bannan, Justin BUF DT 19 15 34 1.50 17.50 32.50

119 137 Babineaux, Jonathan ATL DT 18 7 25 0.50 17.50 24.50

120 119 Wilkinson, Dan DET DT 20 6 26 3.00 17.00 23.00

121 120 Vonoelhoffen, Kimo PIT DE 20 10 30 3.00 17.00 27.00

122 121 Carstens, Jordan CAR DT 20 12 32 3.00 17.00 29.00

123 122 Glover, La' roi DAL DT 20 5 25 3.00 17.00 22.00

124 128 Darby, Chartric SEA DT 19 11 30 2.00 17.00 28.00

125 129 Tafoya, Joe SEA DE 18 7 25 1.00 17.00 24.00

126 130 Dockett, Darnell ARI DT 18 10 28 1.00 17.00 27.00

127 133 Franklin, Aubrayo BAL DT 18 2 20 1.00 17.00 19.00

128 138 Fisk, Jason CLE DT 17 13 30 0.00 17.00 30.00

129 143 Scott, Ian CHI DT 17 10 27 0.00 17.00 27.00

130 108 Tubbs, Marcus SEA DT 21 10 31 4.50 16.50 26.50

131 131 Walker, Darwin PHI DT 18 6 24 1.50 16.50 22.50

132 93 Edwards, Kalimba DET DE 23 7 30 7.00 16.00 23.00

133 116 Tripplett, Larry IND DT 20 5 25 4.00 16.00 21.00

134 126 Green, Brandon STL DE 19 3 22 3.00 16.00 19.00

135 132 Jasper, Edward OAK DT 18 1 19 2.00 16.00 17.00

136 135 McFarland, Anthony TBB DT 18 8 26 2.00 16.00 24.00

137 136 Brown, Courtney DEN DE 18 4 22 2.00 16.00 20.00

138 145 Legree, Lance NYJ DT 17 7 24 2.00 15.00 22.00

139 141 Lavalais, Chad ATL DT 17 7 24 2.50 14.50 21.50

140 97 Ellis, Greg DAL DE 22 9 31 8.00 14.00 23.00

141 134 Bowens, David MIA DE 18 3 21 4.00 14.00 17.00

142 140 Evans, Demetric WAS DE 17 5 22 3.00 14.00 19.00

143 142 James, Erasmus MIN DE 17 4 21 3.00 14.00 18.00

144 144 Ekuban, Ebenezer DEN DE 17 8 25 3.00 14.00 22.00

145 146 Olshansky, Igor SDC DT 17 11 28 3.00 14.00 25.00

146 147 Thomas, Bryan NYJ DE 17 9 26 3.00 14.00 23.00

147 148 Wallace, Al CAR DE 17 4 21 3.00 14.00 18.00

148 149 Moorehead, Kindal CAR DT 17 4 21 3.00 14.00 18.00

149 139 Johnson, Tank CHI DT 17 4 21 4.00 13.00 17.00

150 150 Kolodziej, Ross ARI DT 16 6 22 3.00 13.00 19.00