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Draft: Character becoming more valuable (1 Viewer)

Chaos Commish

Footballguy
I've mentioned a few times that more and more teams seem to be emphasizing character in the draft. Dodds was kind enough to include my question aboout it in the Q and A with Rang. He answered the question with the following draft upgrades and downgrades based on character issues.

Downgraded a lot: Marcus Vick, LenDale White, AJ Nicholson

Downgraded slightly: Jimmy Williams, Brodrick Bunkley, Dusty Dvoracek, Richard Marshall

Upgraded a lot: Bobby Carpenter, Kyle Williams

Upgraded slightly: Cedric Griffin, Tamba Hali, Daryl Tapp
I wish we worked Claude Wroten into the conversation. I think Rang just missed him, but I wonder if he's been downgraded a lot or a little, or perhaps it was truly a misunderstanding and there's no downgrade (not likely). Anyway, these two articles popped up yesterday, and I thought they were worth the read.

One

Two

You won't agree with everything you read in them, but I like this trend.

 
I've mentioned a few times that more and more teams seem to be emphasizing character in the draft.
Whenever I read these all I can think of is all those fans crying that their team passed on Rany Moss in the draft. Sure, you pass on a few Lawrence Phillips along the way but it cuts both ways.
 
I've mentioned a few times that more and more teams seem to be emphasizing character in the draft.
Whenever I read these all I can think of is all those fans crying that their team passed on Rany Moss in the draft. Sure, you pass on a few Lawrence Phillips along the way but it cuts both ways.
I can understand passing a guy with character issues in the top 10 picks, but with the mid-1st round picks you can't pass on someone because of he smoked weed if he has elite talent. It's guys like Chris Henry who are good but not great and have character issues that you need to pass on, which teams did. Pacman Jones should not have been the #6 pick with all of his issues.
 
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And for the NFL, this is a good thing.

Look what character issues have done to the NBA.
Yeah, guys like Rasheed Wallace and Ron Artest and completely submarined any chance of their teams winning.
 
And for the NFL, this is a good thing.

Look what character issues have done to the NBA.
Yeah, guys like Rasheed Wallace and Ron Artest and completely submarined any chance of their teams winning.
I'm pretty sure what he said had absolutely nothing to do with winning.
 
And for the NFL, this is a good thing.

Look what character issues have done to the NBA.
Yeah, guys like Rasheed Wallace and Ron Artest and completely submarined any chance of their teams winning.
Maybe they're helping their teams now, but Artest sunk the Bulls when he played for them and he screwed the Pacers over for two seasons now with his antics. It's only a matter of time before he sabatoges the Kings too. And don't even tell me that Rasheed didn't almost single-handedly destroy the Trailblazers. He's the one that started all of their problems and that franchise is still reeling.I think character matters a great deal. You see bad character guys cause problems all the time and good character guys pull teams together too.

 
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Maybe they're helping their teams now, but Artest sunk the Bulls when he played for them and he screwed the Pacers over for two seasons now with his antics. It's only a matter of time before he sabatoges the Kings too. And don't even tell me that Rasheed didn't almost single-handedly destroy the Trailblazers. He's the one that started all of their problems and that franchise is still reeling.

I think character matters a great deal. You see bad character guys cause problems all the time and good character guys pull teams together too.
Add to that list Isaiah "RJ" Rider of the T'Wolves.
 
I dont want to post pay material in its entirety, but ESPN insider had an article about players with character concerns. some were well known, some caught me by surprise - i wont post the complete list, just some interesting ones for FF:

Santonio Holmes - not very coachable (ego)

Leonard Pope - not hard working/committed

Brandon Marshall - egotistical and takes plays off :cry:

Reggie McNeal - ego/too outspoken

Jeff Webb - ego, work ethic, unwilling to work middle (this was clear in EW shrine practices, he's just not physical)

 
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Santonio Holmes - not very coachable (ego)
Timing is a funny thing. Holmes has been on the soap box circuit the last two weeks, radio and TV. Last night on NFL Total Access he mentioned he had been spending a great deal of time with his firm's marketing and PR folks. He is not lying.The kid's interviews I have seen or heard have been flawless. He's catching on quickly.
Reggie McNeal - ego/too outspoken
Can't win a team leadership vote without the help of his HC despite the fact he is a starting QB. Sorry, farmers, I could not resist.
 
not that surprised to see Brandon Marshall on that list. More so because of the "my ball" mentality that Bloom's been touting as a big proponent of Marshall's attributes. Made me instantly think of guys like Keyshawn, Moss, and TO.

 
I can see where bad/negative character traits would constitute red flags and cause teams to devalue a player in the draft.

Are there really an equivalent number of examples of the opposite, where good character results in inflation of value?

I tend to think that character tends to work against rather than for a player when it enters the discussion.

 
I can see where bad/negative character traits would constitute red flags and cause teams to devalue a player in the draft.

Are there really an equivalent number of examples of the opposite, where good character results in inflation of value?

I tend to think that character tends to work against rather than for a player when it enters the discussion.
Guys who are hard workers and have persevered through adversity get an uptick, as they should.
 
I've been thinking about this alot for my rookie drafts.

There is only so much public info to go on. I guess it may be good to have some criteria set and just live by it.

Onterrio Smith is a good example. His track record practically screamed potential problems ahead, he slipped to the 4th round in the actual draft, but it was so hard to stay away from him and his talent.

 
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I can see where bad/negative character traits would constitute red flags and cause teams to devalue a player in the draft.

Are there really an equivalent number of examples of the opposite, where good character results in inflation of value?

I tend to think that character tends to work against rather than for a player when it enters the discussion.
The trouble is defining what is "good character" and "bad character." Gibbs has always talked about character. He talked about having character guys over and over before and after drafting Sean Taylor. Most people take that to mean that Gibbs ignores character when it comes to extreme talents, like Taylor. You could look back at Dexter Manley and John Riggins and reach a similar conclusion. However, I tend to think most people don't define "character" the way Gibbs does. I don't think Gibbs has a huge problem with Taylor's character or, at least, he's willing to work with him and help him improve.Good character <> Always good

 
Santonio Holmes - not very coachable (ego)

Leonard Pope - not hard working/committed

Brandon Marshall - egotistical and takes plays off :cry:

Reggie McNeal - ego/too outspoken

Jeff Webb - ego, work ethic, unwilling to work middle (this was clear in EW shrine practices, he's just not physical)
Ugh, four out of five I really like. :( Homes has really been growing on me.

Maybe this explains the swift and seldom mentioned plummet for Pope.

I wasn't that I high on Webb, and I've been told the Titans won't let him fall past the first day, but I do like him.

Marshall?? Nooo! Okay fine. The TO comparison was off. He's egotistical and takes plays off. Randy Moss!! :D

 
And for the NFL, this is a good thing.

Look what character issues have done to the NBA.
Yeah, guys like Rasheed Wallace and Ron Artest and completely submarined any chance of their teams winning.
No, but it had a TON to do with declining ratings.
You think the networks are going to shy away from televising games with TO?
You're missing the point entirely.I'd explain further, but I've gotta go.

 
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And for the NFL, this is a good thing.

Look what character issues have done to the NBA.
Yeah, guys like Rasheed Wallace and Ron Artest and completely submarined any chance of their teams winning.
Maybe they're helping their teams now, but Artest sunk the Bulls when he played for them and he screwed the Pacers over for two seasons now with his antics. It's only a matter of time before he sabatoges the Kings too. And don't even tell me that Rasheed didn't almost single-handedly destroy the Trailblazers. He's the one that started all of their problems and that franchise is still reeling.
Bulls stunk with Artest or without, he didn't "sink" anything.Pacers were only a contender because of Artest on the roster. Look what they did this season without him.

Quick question; What was the record of the Trailblazers with Rasheed and what has it been since they got rid of him?

 
And for the NFL, this is a good thing.

Look what character issues have done to the NBA.
Yeah, guys like Rasheed Wallace and Ron Artest and completely submarined any chance of their teams winning.
I'm pretty sure what he said had absolutely nothing to do with winning.
But I don't think you can seperate the two.If you watched ESPN at all in Rasheeds last season in PORT I defy you to come away with any other impression than "Rasheed is the devil and a team can't be successful with a player acting as selfish/childish as he does". Rasheed goes to DET and is one of the major reasons DET wins a title. * POOF! * Suddenly Rasheed is a very talented player and the media and fans have no problem with him. Maybe winning and popular opinion of him changing at the same time was a coincidence. I don't think so, but maybe.

I seriously doubt as many people would HATE TO right now if PHI would have won that Superbowl and the acquistion of TO was the main reason they won.

 
You won't agree with everything you read in them, but I like this trend.
It's not a trend, unfortunately. Just something that gets its token share of attention here and there every year.
 
You won't agree with everything you read in them, but I like this trend.
It's not a trend, unfortunately. Just something that gets its token share of attention here and there every year.
I disagree. One of the articles even explains the growing emphasis with plenty of examples. I've followed the "GM/coach/scout" speak for years (many years). More than I've followed the Kipers, Rangs and Coyles. If it's lipservice, and it could be, then there sure is more of it than usual. I've never heard anyone say it was literally 50% of what they seek before, like the direct quote in one of the articles. Even Lombardi from the Raiders of all teams was discussing "a new focus" on character at the combine. Marv Levy came on very strong and said an emphasis on character would be the main difference in him and his predecessors. I hope it's a trend.

:shrug:

 
I can see where bad/negative character traits would constitute red flags and cause teams to devalue a player in the draft. 

Are there really an equivalent number of examples of the opposite, where good character results in inflation of value?

I tend to think that character tends to work against rather than for a player when it enters the discussion.
Guys who are hard workers and have persevered through adversity get an uptick, as they should.
Your answer didn't really address my question that I bolded above. I'll state it a different way: Is it as important to a team that a relatively highly talented player has bad character, as it is that a relatively modestly talented player has good character?

I think the answer is no, and that it's more important to a team when the highly talented player has character concerns. I can think of far more examples of that - e.g. Warren Sapp, Fred Smoot, Randy Moss - than I can of the opposite.

 
I seriously doubt as many Eagle fans would HATE TO right now if PHI would have won that Superbowl and the acquistion of TO was the main reason they won.
Fixed. :rolleyes:
So only PHI fans would have looked at TO differently if he had helped a playoff pretender get over the hump and become a champion?
 
I can see where bad/negative character traits would constitute red flags and cause teams to devalue a player in the draft.

Are there really an equivalent number of examples of the opposite, where good character results in inflation of value?

I tend to think that character tends to work against rather than for a player when it enters the discussion.
Guys who are hard workers and have persevered through adversity get an uptick, as they should.
Your answer didn't really address my question that I bolded above. I'll state it a different way: Is it as important to a team that a relatively highly talented player has bad character, as it is that a relatively modestly talented player has good character?

I think the answer is no, and that it's more important to a team when the highly talented player has character concerns. I can think of far more examples of that - e.g. Warren Sapp, Fred Smoot, Randy Moss - than I can of the opposite.
No, since good character doesn't help you win football games. Teams want to build with quality players, but there's always a compromise because character and talent.
 
I seriously doubt as many people would HATE TO right now if PHI would have won that Superbowl and the acquistion of TO was the main reason they won.
If he pulled the same shenannigans as he is now, I'd take your bet.
 
The Patriot effect.
Oh, please... The Steelers have been doing it for a lot longer than the Patriots.
The Patriots have been more successful to date with the strategy.
I'll give you the rings but there has been not been a steadier team than the Steelers and a large part of that is drafting/signing team players. Both the Seahawks and the Steelers this year played a team game and the same can be said for the Pats, Colts and Bears.
 

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