This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Agreed.I don't think it is cheating by any stretch of the imagination. Just lame in my opinion.Besides, if everyone had DD and used it as their sole guide, their would be no need to have a draft. The league could just let the DD pick everyone's team for them.
Not to belabor my point, but could someone say it is cheating if someone spent hours per day memorizing a cheatsheet so he new it verbatim come draft day? I say this cheating talk is ridiculous. The draft is only one phase of a fantasy season. In my mind, luck and team management is more important.I used this very one at lunch with some of my league-mates last week. I was a first-year player in a work league last year and asked the commish if I could bring a laptop to the draft, to which he replied "no problem".Well everyone took a great interest in why I had a laptop and all of sudden started razzing, "Ha, AcousticNut has a laptop picking his draft for him." My reply, "Yes, I'd rather have a piece of paper choose it for me.". These same people getting on me for using DD are the same people that print out the Top 200 cheatsheet from Fox Sports the day before the draft and use it solely that for their picks, because that's the one fantasy site that isn't blocked at work.
So we were eating lunch the other day and one spouted off, "We're going to ban laptops this year." My response was, "Fine, let's ban all paper as well and let's see who really knows this game.".... Not another word was said about it, except by the commish who said, "I'd be for that.". A worried look then crossed the others faces. It was very satisfying.
I'm also fond of pointing out that 4 of my first 5 draft picks were out for the season by week 8 and I still came in second in the league. As long as they don't ban Lineup Dominator, I'm set
And, I don't let Draft Dominator make my picks for me, it's simply a tool that's used in my decision making.
Would you consider a FF Magazine or a cheetsheet downloaded off the internet as "unethical"? That's someone else's projections. I don't use draft software, nor do I need to use it, but I don't have a problem with it. As a matter of fact, I enjoy beating those who use it.
I think anytime you use someone else's projections regardless of the medium it is wrong. Beside, why would anyone want to do that?
I'm pretty sure most people do not rank every player. A lot of people download rankings and add their own twist to it. Is that unethical if some of the players rankings aren't changed? I think not. I'd laugh at anyone who had a problem with that. Besides, how would you know it wasn't their own ranking? Easy enough to copy something from FBGs ranking to your own.
If you make changes then they are your rankings.
You wouldn't know, that's why it's unethical.
Ah, gotcha.
Sure do. It's not conforming to agreed standards of moral conduct. Using someone else's work and claiming it to be yours is unethical. When you are deciding what type of league you will enter, considerations should include skill level and/or amount of time required to field a team. If you don't have enough time to do enough projections for that particular league...maybe you should reconsider joining that league or drafting without projections.
You obviously didn't read what I said. By making NO CHANGES to others projections that is wrong.When you make changes at some point, the projections cease to be someone else's and become your own. By changing one guy sure, the projections still aren't yours, but if you change enough then those projections become yours. Where that point is is undefinable. It's sort of like pornography, you'll know it when you see it.
Just because I use someone's projections doesn't mean I claim them as my own? That doesn't make any sense. It just means I agree with their projections and view them as an expert in the subject of projections.If you listen to your financial advisor when he recommends how you invest your money, is that unethical because you didn't make the decision completely on your own?
That example is not representative of this situation, when you're investing your money you're not in a competition verses other people. In fantasy football you evaluate players based on available information and make projections so that you can adapt to different changes and circumstance. You're pitting your skill, knowlege and projections against others.
Yes, but you're using other people ideas/opinions to create and formulate your own. I'm not saying you have to start from scratch and you can't use someone elses work. I'm saying that you use that work as a starting point. Then you do research on the players and make changes where you deem necessary. Then at some point the rankings cease to be someone elses work and begin to be your own.EDIT: Furthermore, Fantasy Football is a hobby and something we do for fun. If you don't put the time in to research and evaluate the players on your own and simply take an "experts" ranking and go draft...where's the fun in that?
Later that year...CAVEMAN GROGG: I think it would be fun to get 11 other guys together and start a fire making league. We can see who can make the best fire.CAVEMAN UGG: Sound good me in.Then on fire making day...CAVEMAN UGG: Caveman Grogg, why you no make your fire yourself?CAVEMAN GROGG: Oh, I don't have the time to make it. I think Caveman Bic is an expert at firemaking so I'll let him do all the work. When all the firemaking is over, I'll come back and take all the credit.CAVEMAN UGG: Ugg think Grogg cheating.
weak. He still has to make his own fire. We're not talking about someone drafting for you.
This isn't plagarism. I've never been in a league where they affirmatively require that you do every bit of work. You said it yourself - no one knows the outcome. Someone else's projections are just as valid as your own. People draft straight from a magazine all the time. Nobody questions whether that's ethical or not. Not smart, but nobody questions their ethics. You've set the bar way, way too high. Make it a poll. If your opinion gets more than 5% of the responses, I'd be surprised.
No - there isn't.I'm sure this argument has been taken care of aplenty so I won't dwell on how utterly wrong you are iun calling Dodds' projections "somebody's personal" list.
there's a difference between using it, and using it with FBG's projections
The DD is designed for you to use Dodds' projections as a template and to alter them with your own thought - you don't HAVE to to make the DD functional, but it helps if you intend to really play this game.
(and, me too)
because they do NOT have the time we do to do their own projections - they are doctors and lawyers and very busy people who are as happy buying the DD as the guy who buys three magazines the day before the draft.There is no "cheating" "wrongness" or "unethical" play about using the DD as is.
If gardening is your hobby and you don't have time to garden, what fun is it to hire a horticutural engineer to come in a plant your garden for you. Part of the fun of gardening is planting the seed, giving it water, and watching it grow. If all you have time for is to reap the fruits maybe its time for another hobby that you have time for.
I generally let other people decide for themselves what they consider fun.
I was doing this long before I started using a laptop at my drafts and I hardly believe I was alone.Every league I've run, I always provided leaguemates with one sheet on which they can track the draft pick-by-pick, and another on which they can track roster positions. DD just makes it easier for me to follow myself now, but I didn't change my approach just because it became available to me.
Gardening is a great analogy. A working couple may not have the time, energy, or desire to plant a garden, but they may have the resources to hire landscapers to do this. It would be disingenuous for them to say their hobby was gardening, but they certainly can still enjoy their garden. Thomas Jones (as a Cardinal) and James Stewart showed me long ago that I am not very good at projections. I am more than happy to allow FBG's to project most of the stats. My few tweaks would definitely put me in your "unethical" category Snotbubbles. I wouldn't claim the projections in my draftday notebook as my own, and am sure there is nothing improper about this. I still enjoy the strategy of the draft, making trades, adds/drops, talking smack and watching games on Sunday's.
You have to do this, with or without a laptop. Its pretty easy, with a piece of paper or just by looking at the draft board.
-- TS's friend "Big Daddy C"
-- Jesse "The Body" VenturaIt's ironic this quote appeared:
...since ESPN will give away a chance to have Clayton or Mort help you with your FFL draft. I guess Snotbubbles would call that cheating.I used a laptop with DD last year and received a little harrassment from my fellow owners. I doubt it will be a serious issue in my league since no one really knew what I had on my laptop; for all they knew, I had my own cheatsheet on an Excel spreadsheet.
UNrealistic for the vast majority of folks (something like 2.5 MILLION people) who play this game.You sound like the Deadhead who thinks anyone who hasn't seen 100 shows and hasn't taken off a whole summer to see the band is not a "real "fan.
by the same token, all "cheat"sheets are "cheat"sheets - they contain the word "cheat" right in them.Sore loser friend really wants to avoid all "cheat"ing, then he may use an alphabetical listing of all players in the NFL as the only piece of paper he is allowed to bring into the draft. No more ESPN Mag, no more ranking sheets, no more DD - nothing that ranks the players.
BULLshizzee!!!It's called a draft board.
I stole your insight.
Just a little food for thought.
with just an alphabetical list of the NFL players (with position, of course), I could probably assemble a decent team, but I'd need a LOT of time between each pick.
there is, as far as i can tell, exactly ONE person here (sabertooth) saying the DD, cheetsheets, or ranking sheets are unethical.the rest of us areNot to point any fingers, but how can some of you so-called "experts" come up with these projections and write these articles for these magazines that we "rookies" clamor for, knowing that some of us are going to use your projections for our draft, and then say it is unethical to use them. If it is unethical for a person to use someone else's rankings to draft a team in FF, then isn't it also unethical for someone to publish those rankings, knowing that they will be used by someone as their own?
that anyone could make that assertion. that anyone could make that assertion.
