Draft: Rising and Falling (1 Viewer)

[-OZ-]

I must say, I was down on him as a top-4 pick, but if he slips outside the top-10 he could be Roethlisberger II.

Could, but that would be very surprising. There's only been one Roethlisberger.If he drops out of the top 10, he should fall to Minnesota. With their improvements this year, he could be in a good position to succeed, but not as a rookie.

 

[BlueOnion]

I must say, I was down on him as a top-4 pick, but if he slips outside the top-10 he could be Roethlisberger II.

Could, but that would be very surprising. There's only been one Roethlisberger.If he drops out of the top 10, he should fall to Minnesota. With their improvements this year, he could be in a good position to succeed, but not as a rookie.

Sure, the Roethlisberger is bit of a hyperbole. But if Cutler could have 75% of the success of Roethlisberger, he would still offer great value.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

When can we start speculating about Cutler and his stock dropping? It didn't seem long ago that he could have been a top-4 pick. What I am reading recently indicates he may very well go outside the top-10.

I must say, I was down on him as a top-4 pick, but if he slips outside the top-10 he could be Roethlisberger II.

Or Aaron Rogers II. Every QB is a risk, though.

Peyton Manning was about as sure a thing as there's been in the last 10-15 years, but even then there was discussion about him or Leaf for #1.

If Cutler is there for the Vikes at #17, they HAVE to take him. Just like the Pack had to take Rogers at that spot (#27?) last year.

 

[BlueOnion]

When can we start speculating about Cutler and his stock dropping?  It didn't seem long ago that he could have been a top-4 pick.  What I am reading recently indicates he may very well go outside the top-10.

I must say, I was down on him as a top-4 pick, but if he slips outside the top-10 he could be Roethlisberger II.

Or Aaron Rogers II. Every QB is a risk, though.

Rodgers hasn't proven anything yet, good or bad.

 

[tommyGunZ]

When can we start speculating about Cutler and his stock dropping? It didn't seem long ago that he could have been a top-4 pick. What I am reading recently indicates he may very well go outside the top-10.

I must say, I was down on him as a top-4 pick, but if he slips outside the top-10 he could be Roethlisberger II.

Or Aaron Rogers II. Every QB is a risk, though.

Rodgers hasn't proven anything yet, good or bad.

He's proven he can fall from potential #1 pick to #24.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

When can we start speculating about Cutler and his stock dropping?  It didn't seem long ago that he could have been a top-4 pick.  What I am reading recently indicates he may very well go outside the top-10.

I must say, I was down on him as a top-4 pick, but if he slips outside the top-10 he could be Roethlisberger II.

Or Aaron Rogers II. Every QB is a risk, though.

Rodgers hasn't proven anything yet, good or bad.

That's my point. I'm referring to the fact that a top QB often slides in the draft. Rogers was considered the top pick as late as a week before the draft, then he slid. Roethlisberger has panned out as someone that went late. The other example being Rogers hasn't shown (nor has he been given the chance to) anything.

I'm just saying there's two sides to the coin.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

When can we start speculating about Cutler and his stock dropping?  It didn't seem long ago that he could have been a top-4 pick.  What I am reading recently indicates he may very well go outside the top-10.

I must say, I was down on him as a top-4 pick, but if he slips outside the top-10 he could be Roethlisberger II.

Or Aaron Rogers II. Every QB is a risk, though.

Rodgers hasn't proven anything yet, good or bad.

He's proven he can fall from potential #1 pick to #24.

Exactly.

 

[Reaper]

Tamba Hali, DE, Penn St. - Another "I told ya so." This guy was way way overrated during the search for a DE to pass the disappointing Kiwanuka. Hali was stoned twice by Marcedes Lewis (a supposedly poor blocking TE) in the Senior Bowl. He just hasn't done anything to prove worthy of a mid first round grade. He has a great motor, but he's slow and he's weak. Several DEs may be drafted before him, and rightfully so. I'd take (after Mario), Wimbley, Lawson, Kiwi, Anderson, Edwards and Tapp before Hali. Rang says, there's probably no player who's dropped more significantly.

He may be falling and may be hard to peg a postion for.. But, WOW, I just read his story in the Sporting News coming from Africa living in poverty and War...

No link but, here's the USA Today version USA TODAY

Sheesh.... Probably still has room to grow strength wise and seems like you couldn't find many people as dedicated....

Hope he gets a big enough check to get his mom to the U.S.

Sounds like a One dimensional Pass Rusher who could be a value come the 3rd round or so.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I hope I'm totally wrong about Hali. I respect his work ethic, and you have to impressed with the production last year. I read a recent analysis that compares him favorably to Will Smith. I didn't like the way he looked against better competition. You could tell D'Brick, O'Call, and Colledge weren't working hard to stop him, but they all had their hands full with Wimbley, Tapp and Anderson.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Fox has adjusted the Top 100. This is more from NFL Draft Scout, btw. Same format. Their comments in the link. Mine below.

RISING

Vince Young, QB, Texas - I don't think he ever fell. The reporting seemed like a media frenzy with tangential support from poor analysts and dubiously anonymous people "close to the franchise". The doubters may prove correct on Vince. I say the odds are about 1 in 50. He's just too good.

Winston Justice, OT, USC - Based on pure tools this could become the greatest tackle to ever play. Same could be said of Vernon Davis at TE. I doubt either accomplishes such lofty possibilities, but the draft is always a crap shoot, and it's just too risky to pass on someone with his upside. I read a great post (somewhere else) about workout warriors who bust. Guess what? A high percentage of them don't bust, they're hard workers, and great athletes. Oddly there's a lot more who bust who don't work out hard. The one's who do bust become the media example provided over and over again for why speed and strength are bad bad things. Don't need those.

Daniel Bullocks, S, Nebraska - One of the very fine prospects in the deepest part of this draft. I read last night that 8 cornerbacks and 5 safeties have first round grades. Bullocks is one of those safeties, and one who won't be drafted until mid to late 2nd round. I remember when I was complaining about DB being shallow and OL being deep (months ago). It's reversed according to some, but I'm stubborn about liking the OLs too. Bullocks twin brother Josh was a second rounder last year, and played like he was worth a late first. Josh was always considered the slightly better athlete. Daniel really matured last year and posted better numbers than Josh, then he showed even better measureables at the combine than his brother.

Greg Jennings - We've discussed him. I've confessed to never seeing him play. I am really impressed with what I hear. Intrigued by him more than any receiver. His name is popping up everywhere. Sounds like a really complete player with a great head on his shoulders who should make it at the next level. In fact, I'm liking this much maligned receiver class more and more all the time.

Rocky McIntosh, OLB, Miami Fl - Contrary to what you'll read elsewhere this is not a deep class of LBs, not classic LBs anyway. It's deep because practically every DE on the first day is discussed as a solid prospect to convert to 3-4 OLB. That's very limiting depth in that it rules out a bunch of these guys for 4-3s. McIntosh is an excellent 4-3 prospect and a nice back up plan if that need need be addressed after Howard and Ryans are gone. After him the position has questionable 3rd round talent.

FALLING

Matt Leinart, QB, USC - He could be falling, but he probably isn't. His QB1 grade is just not so certain as many think. He'll be QB1 in 95 out of 100 mocks. But those with better information are convinced that the teams making the ultimate decision are truly undecided. The indecision is causing a little caution, not a downgrade. Tennesee is very possibly on Young, has always been on Young, and Young could go at 1.3. He's in my current mock there. I'll change that in heartbeat on different information.

Jimmy Williams, DB, Virginia Tech - I hear he's a psycho.

Daryn Colledge, OT, Boise State - Why? Fox is talking about physical strength and Colledge was supposed to be very strong but disappointed on the bench. All his weightroom acheivements are lower body based. Still, this guy is a player. I did see him several times and he was always "perfect" even against tough competition. He had to work harder than D'Brick to stone the same guys at the Senior Bowl, but he did. He'll be a steal if he drops.

Rodrique Wright, DT, Texas - I thought he was rallying based on great interviews and sound rationale for his lower production. I can only guess that a very deep class of modestly talented DTs has him very muddled in the mix somewhere. No big deal to me. Many of them look the same, and it will all come down to desire for the trench battlers.

Notes from the top 100:

Ryan O'Callaghan, Charles Spencer and John Scott are precariously close to having second day grades. I'm befuddled. I hope Dallas feeds on this if it's true. There must be more to this. Information we don't get. Spencer has been awesome this off-season and had a great year playing tackle. Scott and O'Callaghan are guys who should start in the NFL for a decade.

Brian Calhoun is getting no love. I haven't been with his "strong" supporters, but come on. He was injured and ran slow, but the guy is blazing fast, extremely productive, very versatile, solid as can be mentally. What the hey? He'll be a steal at the end of the 3rd, if they have this right.

Alan Zemaitas seems to be rising a little, even though they don't list him as such. I've seen him back in the second round of a bunch of mocks too. Good for him. I agree with Construx, it would be nice to see him make it. Maybe he's being appreciated as a free safety who would grade like Pat Watkins? Could be.

Maurice Drew is very close to overtaking Joseph Addai as RB5.

D'Qwell Jackson has slipped behind Abdul Hodge as the top ILB??

Kamerion Wimbley approaching top 10 love? So much for Dallas getting him if true.

Leinart Cutler and Young are ranked in that order from 5-11. It's tight.

 

[diesel7982]

Fox has adjusted the Top 100. This is more from NFL Draft Scout, btw. Same format. Their comments in the link. Mine below.

RISING

Vince Young, QB, Texas - I don't think he ever fell. The reporting seemed like a media frenzy with tangential support from poor analysts and dubiously anonymous people "close to the franchise". The doubters may prove correct on Vince. I say the odds are about 1 in 50. He's just too good.

Winston Justice, OT, USC - Based on pure tools this could become the greatest tackle to ever play. Same could be said of Vernon Davis at TE. I doubt either accomplishes such lofty possibilities, but the draft is always a crap shoot, and it's just too risky to pass on someone with his upside. I read a great post (somewhere else) about workout warriors who bust. Guess what? A high percentage of them don't bust, they're hard workers, and great athletes. Oddly there's a lot more who bust who don't work out hard. The one's who do bust become the media example provided over and over again for why speed and strength are bad bad things. Don't need those.

Daniel Bullocks, S, Nebraska - One of the very fine prospects in the deepest part of this draft. I read last night that 8 cornerbacks and 5 safeties have first round grades. Bullocks is one of those safeties, and one who won't be drafted until mid to late 2nd round. I remember when I was complaining about DB being shallow and OL being deep (months ago). It's reversed according to some, but I'm stubborn about liking the OLs too. Bullocks twin brother Josh was a second rounder last year, and played like he was worth a late first. Josh was always considered the slightly better athlete. Daniel really matured last year and posted better numbers than Josh, then he showed even better measureables at the combine than his brother.

Greg Jennings - We've discussed him. I've confessed to never seeing him play. I am really impressed with what I hear. Intrigued by him more than any receiver. His name is popping up everywhere. Sounds like a really complete player with a great head on his shoulders who should make it at the next level. In fact, I'm liking this much maligned receiver class more and more all the time.

Rocky McIntosh, OLB, Miami Fl - Contrary to what you'll read elsewhere this is not a deep class of LBs, not classic LBs anyway. It's deep because practically every DE on the first day is discussed as a solid prospect to convert to 3-4 OLB. That's very limiting depth in that it rules out a bunch of these guys for 4-3s. McIntosh is an excellent 4-3 prospect and a nice back up plan if that need need be addressed after Howard and Ryans are gone. After him the position has questionable 3rd round talent.

FALLING

Matt Leinart, QB, USC - He could be falling, but he probably isn't. His QB1 grade is just not so certain as many think. He'll be QB1 in 95 out of 100 mocks. But those with better information are convinced that the teams making the ultimate decision are truly undecided. The indecision is causing a little caution, not a downgrade. Tennesee is very possibly on Young, has always been on Young, and Young could go at 1.3. He's in my current mock there. I'll change that in heartbeat on different information.

Jimmy Williams, DB, Virginia Tech - I hear he's a psycho.

Daryn Colledge, OT, Boise State - Why? Fox is talking about physical strength and Colledge was supposed to be very strong but disappointed on the bench. All his weightroom acheivements are lower body based. Still, this guy is a player. I did see him several times and he was always "perfect" even against tough competition. He had to work harder than D'Brick to stone the same guys at the Senior Bowl, but he did. He'll be a steal if he drops.

Rodrique Wright, DT, Texas - I thought he was rallying based on great interviews and sound rationale for his lower production. I can only guess that a very deep class of modestly talented DTs has him very muddled in the mix somewhere. No big deal to me. Many of them look the same, and it will all come down to desire for the trench battlers.

Notes from the top 100:

Ryan O'Callaghan, Charles Spencer and John Scott are precariously close to having second day grades. I'm befuddled. I hope Dallas feeds on this if it's true. There must be more to this. Information we don't get. Spencer has been awesome this off-season and had a great year playing tackle. Scott and O'Callaghan are guys who should start in the NFL for a decade.

Brian Calhoun is getting no love. I haven't been with his "strong" supporters, but come on. He was injured and ran slow, but the guy is blazing fast, extremely productive, very versatile, solid as can be mentally. What the hey? He'll be a steal at the end of the 3rd, if they have this right.

Alan Zemaitas seems to be rising a little, even though they don't list him as such. I've seen him back in the second round of a bunch of mocks too. Good for him. I agree with Construx, it would be nice to see him make it. Maybe he's being appreciated as a free safety who would grade like Pat Watkins? Could be.

Maurice Drew is very close to overtaking Joseph Addai as RB5.

D'Qwell Jackson has slipped behind Abdul Hodge as the top ILB??

Kamerion Wimbley approaching top 10 love? So much for Dallas getting him if true.

Leinart Cutler and Young are ranked in that order from 5-11. It's tight.

That happening would shock me given the press Addai is getting. I expect him to be off the board definitely before Drew and White, possibly before Maroney.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

young is plenty football smart...

Absolutely. The comment that he cannot read a defense is false. Remember that thorough breakdown of every single play in the Rose Bowl? Texas called three plays the whole game. One of them was only called once. Another was called over 40 times. The same play. It sounds like the most simple offense in the world, but there's more to that breakdown. The offense is called the Zone Read. That play that was called over 40 times puts it all on the QB to read the defense and make the right decision. Young ran 16 options of the same play and made nothing but perfect decisions all day. Those 16 different reads were made after the ball was snapped.

Chaos, nicely done, my friend. Anyone who thinks Young cannot read a defense simply does not understand how the Texas offense is run. Can he learn a new one? Well...he had to learn the zone read when he went to Texas, and that worked out ok....and Magaw, eloquently spoken as usual. I love reading your posts even when I disagree with you or even when I have no idea what you're talking about. Keep using those big words!

Interstices...sweet!