Englishteacher
Footballguy
This thread started in the current Would New Orleans trade Stallworth for Donnie Edwards topic
Stallworth - Edwards
But it's been bumping around in my brain for awhile. Here goes. The parts after the Stallworth Edwards speculation:
The Saints continue to get guys on their team who fill positions represented by the elite players in the top of the draft so it provides a smokescreen and other teams can't peg their draft strategy. Saints have plenty of options staying at #2 but also look at trading down, perhaps multiple times, from #2 overall to accumulate draft picks (Lord knows they have a lot of holes on the team) and draft best player available/best value available. (i.e., is Huff at #9 worth more than Ferguson or Mario at #2 when you factor in the extra draft picks we get.)
They've also shown a strategy (of course this is in my head) of jettisoning players they already have at the elite draft player position spots, creating a need on the team, which ups the value of said draft available players. AKA the San Diego - NYG deal where both needed QB's and Accorsi (GM Giants) got taken for a ride in the draft pick compensation department.
The "get guys who play positions that the best players in the draft represent" and "jettison guys at positions likely to be filled in the draft" explained:
(According to a possible projection of the first round)
1. Reggie Bush (already have Deuce inked to a big deal). Fits the strategy less as Bush is pretty much guaranteed to go #1 and the Saints can't leverage this spot and don't attempt to.
2. D Brick Ferguson: This is the pick many have the Saints making if they remain in this spot. Saints trade Wayne Gandy. D Brick is a can't miss prospect at LT. Guy you pencil in for 10 years. Would be highly pursued in draft. So what do you do if you are the Saints? Trade Wayne Gandy. Saints now pencilled in to take the Brick at #2. Makes the draft value for Brick even higher because there is a team high in the draft with a certain need for him. However, the Saints have also been rumored to try and trade down and get Brick a couple spots lower. There is a risk in doing so because maybe another team takes him at 3, 4, or 5. This only increases the value of the #2 spot for the Saints and trading down as they'll demand compensation for assuming risk. - But if we see the Saints trade Charles Grant it increases the demand for Mario Williams at the top of the draft board. A team like the Packers could certainly use a great LE to pair with pass rusher KBG.
A possibility? Look for the Saints to draft a player for someone else, possibly Matt Leinart for the Jets, while having possibly explored or made a trade to go down even further from the #4 spot. Drafting Leinart for the Jets would possibly rob the Titans of who they want, creating a leverage situation. They could also draft Mario Williams for the Jets, Packers amongst others.
Look even further at the principles of the Gandy deal and players currently on the roster and it furthers the cat and mouse game.
RT Jammal Brown is a stud although they say he's more suited for the RT power position. Payton says he's merely just switching him to the left side. No need at that position! The Saints would appear either to have no need at the pass protection T spot or they could get bookend T's for the next 10 years.
The Saints got a Safety in the deal although they've got a few guys there. However, Huff is a can't miss guy there and is SO GOOD he's one of the few safeties in a LONG time to be considered in the Top 10 (along with Sean Taylor and Roy Williams). He's also considered to be one of the best corners in the draft, if not the best. If the Saints don't have superstars and youth (outside of Josh Bullocks) at Safety, they have numbers and deph. No need for Huff at S! Well, the Saints have been rumored to be shopping Dwight Smith, their best Safety. Plus, Huff factors in by many to be the best CB prospect overall as well. The Saints have mostly aging players at CB but they are deep. Mike Mckenzie is the best of the lot. Where do other teams think the Saints would play Huff and do they appear to have the need to draft him?
3. Matt Leinart - This is the Titans draft spot. I've heard one rumor saying the coaching staff prefers Vince Young but the front office prefers Leinart. The ties to Leinart are obviously impressive with Norm Chow having been his OC at USC. Perhaps the team "leaked" the coaching staff wanting Young to smokescreen Chow's interest in working with Leinart again (for a long time). However, as I'm typing this, Sportscenter is running their draft specials and they're highlighting how the Titans could go after Young instead of Leinart. Another consideration, according to Jackson, Mort, and Kiper is Mario Williams. The prospects mentioned so far all have immense value because of their own merits but it is increased because of the needs of the teams up here. --- I also think the Saints have some leverage with Leinart. Drew Brees' contract is structured basically so that if the Saints want to, they can get rid of him after one year. If he recovers his health, they have him signed to a long term deal. But, if he tanks they've covered their arses. This creates a possibility for the Saints going with a QB, although many would find it doubt this statement, reality, and possibility strongly. ---- Another potential ace up the Saints sleeve for QB is the team coveting Young or Cutler, whom they could get later in the draft while acquiring more draft picks. That the Titans, Jets, Raiders, and Cards at 3, 4, 7, and 10 respectively ALL have high need for a QB helps the Saints in marketing their selection. -
4. Mario Williams - If the Saints trade Charles Grant, up the ante and come correct if you want to get Mario Williams from New Orleans.
But, what if the Saints want the Brick more? Or, do the Saints like the combo of Brick and some draft picks more than the immensely talented but inconsistent Williams?
The Jets could go in any number of directions. Certainly, they could use the likes of Bush, Williams, Brick, one of the QB's, or Hawk to reboot their franchise. The holes are plenty and anyone of these guys could be earmarked as the Jet's favorite to start over and build around. However, I see it lunlikely they trade down more than a couple of spots as the Super Blue Chippers are going to be gone soon after they pick and the Super Blue Chippers at premium NFL positions avaliable, RB (not a premium NFL position but a once in a decade player like Bush changes this), QB, LT, and DE are likely to be gone right after they pick at #4. Unless you consider Young and Cutler the guy to build around now. I could see them moving up to get their guy.
5. AJ Hawk - This is the Packers spot. You'd guess they would rather get a position other than QB right now but if the right guy is there who knows? They have needs at DE, LB, DT, CB, T, G, S, RB, and C. Wow. Hawk is another guy the Saints could use as their LBers are woeful. But the mold fits since the Saints need a LB like Hawk.
Vernon Davis? Would improve the Saints TE's by a mile. Bunkley and Ngata, it's not like the Saints couldn't use DT's. Huff has been mentioned.
6. San Fran - Could use Ferguson, Williams, Hawk, among the Super Blue Chippers. Huff too. They need D lineman for Nolan's 3-4. If New Orleans targets a guy who is not among the consensus top picks, this would be a nice spot. You could see a Cutler or Young here. San Fran is going to have a break in the Top 5 to get a player at a position they'd like the most.
7. Oakland - Pick a position on defense, any position. They could use a QB of the future. Ferguson is a guy they could use. I've heard a couple rumors they could trade up.
8. Buffalo - A really bad team - Around this spot is where the Saints could actually trade up with more picks. (See idea after pick rundown)
9. Detroit - They're just disappointed there isn't a WR to take here. - There are some players that would be intriguing for them in a trade up although plenty of guys that fill need positions. It's just there are premium guys at the positions they need a few spots up as well.
Another possibility? The Saints get the player they want in the Top 10 and with picks they've aquired, perhaps #29 from the Jets, #22 from the 9ers (recently aquired from Denver), plus their #2 pick, plus 2nd round and later picks aquired in tradedowns, the Saints trade back into the Top 10 and aquire a second elite talent. How about a Huff, Ngata, Young, Cutler, Bunkley, Davis, Hawk to go with a Brick or Mario Williams. Nice 2006 Draft right there.
Stallworth - Edwards
But it's been bumping around in my brain for awhile. Here goes. The parts after the Stallworth Edwards speculation:
The Saints continue to get guys on their team who fill positions represented by the elite players in the top of the draft so it provides a smokescreen and other teams can't peg their draft strategy. Saints have plenty of options staying at #2 but also look at trading down, perhaps multiple times, from #2 overall to accumulate draft picks (Lord knows they have a lot of holes on the team) and draft best player available/best value available. (i.e., is Huff at #9 worth more than Ferguson or Mario at #2 when you factor in the extra draft picks we get.)
They've also shown a strategy (of course this is in my head) of jettisoning players they already have at the elite draft player position spots, creating a need on the team, which ups the value of said draft available players. AKA the San Diego - NYG deal where both needed QB's and Accorsi (GM Giants) got taken for a ride in the draft pick compensation department.
The "get guys who play positions that the best players in the draft represent" and "jettison guys at positions likely to be filled in the draft" explained:
(According to a possible projection of the first round)
1. Reggie Bush (already have Deuce inked to a big deal). Fits the strategy less as Bush is pretty much guaranteed to go #1 and the Saints can't leverage this spot and don't attempt to.
2. D Brick Ferguson: This is the pick many have the Saints making if they remain in this spot. Saints trade Wayne Gandy. D Brick is a can't miss prospect at LT. Guy you pencil in for 10 years. Would be highly pursued in draft. So what do you do if you are the Saints? Trade Wayne Gandy. Saints now pencilled in to take the Brick at #2. Makes the draft value for Brick even higher because there is a team high in the draft with a certain need for him. However, the Saints have also been rumored to try and trade down and get Brick a couple spots lower. There is a risk in doing so because maybe another team takes him at 3, 4, or 5. This only increases the value of the #2 spot for the Saints and trading down as they'll demand compensation for assuming risk. - But if we see the Saints trade Charles Grant it increases the demand for Mario Williams at the top of the draft board. A team like the Packers could certainly use a great LE to pair with pass rusher KBG.
A possibility? Look for the Saints to draft a player for someone else, possibly Matt Leinart for the Jets, while having possibly explored or made a trade to go down even further from the #4 spot. Drafting Leinart for the Jets would possibly rob the Titans of who they want, creating a leverage situation. They could also draft Mario Williams for the Jets, Packers amongst others.
Look even further at the principles of the Gandy deal and players currently on the roster and it furthers the cat and mouse game.
RT Jammal Brown is a stud although they say he's more suited for the RT power position. Payton says he's merely just switching him to the left side. No need at that position! The Saints would appear either to have no need at the pass protection T spot or they could get bookend T's for the next 10 years.
The Saints got a Safety in the deal although they've got a few guys there. However, Huff is a can't miss guy there and is SO GOOD he's one of the few safeties in a LONG time to be considered in the Top 10 (along with Sean Taylor and Roy Williams). He's also considered to be one of the best corners in the draft, if not the best. If the Saints don't have superstars and youth (outside of Josh Bullocks) at Safety, they have numbers and deph. No need for Huff at S! Well, the Saints have been rumored to be shopping Dwight Smith, their best Safety. Plus, Huff factors in by many to be the best CB prospect overall as well. The Saints have mostly aging players at CB but they are deep. Mike Mckenzie is the best of the lot. Where do other teams think the Saints would play Huff and do they appear to have the need to draft him?
3. Matt Leinart - This is the Titans draft spot. I've heard one rumor saying the coaching staff prefers Vince Young but the front office prefers Leinart. The ties to Leinart are obviously impressive with Norm Chow having been his OC at USC. Perhaps the team "leaked" the coaching staff wanting Young to smokescreen Chow's interest in working with Leinart again (for a long time). However, as I'm typing this, Sportscenter is running their draft specials and they're highlighting how the Titans could go after Young instead of Leinart. Another consideration, according to Jackson, Mort, and Kiper is Mario Williams. The prospects mentioned so far all have immense value because of their own merits but it is increased because of the needs of the teams up here. --- I also think the Saints have some leverage with Leinart. Drew Brees' contract is structured basically so that if the Saints want to, they can get rid of him after one year. If he recovers his health, they have him signed to a long term deal. But, if he tanks they've covered their arses. This creates a possibility for the Saints going with a QB, although many would find it doubt this statement, reality, and possibility strongly. ---- Another potential ace up the Saints sleeve for QB is the team coveting Young or Cutler, whom they could get later in the draft while acquiring more draft picks. That the Titans, Jets, Raiders, and Cards at 3, 4, 7, and 10 respectively ALL have high need for a QB helps the Saints in marketing their selection. -
4. Mario Williams - If the Saints trade Charles Grant, up the ante and come correct if you want to get Mario Williams from New Orleans.
But, what if the Saints want the Brick more? Or, do the Saints like the combo of Brick and some draft picks more than the immensely talented but inconsistent Williams?
The Jets could go in any number of directions. Certainly, they could use the likes of Bush, Williams, Brick, one of the QB's, or Hawk to reboot their franchise. The holes are plenty and anyone of these guys could be earmarked as the Jet's favorite to start over and build around. However, I see it lunlikely they trade down more than a couple of spots as the Super Blue Chippers are going to be gone soon after they pick and the Super Blue Chippers at premium NFL positions avaliable, RB (not a premium NFL position but a once in a decade player like Bush changes this), QB, LT, and DE are likely to be gone right after they pick at #4. Unless you consider Young and Cutler the guy to build around now. I could see them moving up to get their guy.
5. AJ Hawk - This is the Packers spot. You'd guess they would rather get a position other than QB right now but if the right guy is there who knows? They have needs at DE, LB, DT, CB, T, G, S, RB, and C. Wow. Hawk is another guy the Saints could use as their LBers are woeful. But the mold fits since the Saints need a LB like Hawk.
Vernon Davis? Would improve the Saints TE's by a mile. Bunkley and Ngata, it's not like the Saints couldn't use DT's. Huff has been mentioned.
6. San Fran - Could use Ferguson, Williams, Hawk, among the Super Blue Chippers. Huff too. They need D lineman for Nolan's 3-4. If New Orleans targets a guy who is not among the consensus top picks, this would be a nice spot. You could see a Cutler or Young here. San Fran is going to have a break in the Top 5 to get a player at a position they'd like the most.
7. Oakland - Pick a position on defense, any position. They could use a QB of the future. Ferguson is a guy they could use. I've heard a couple rumors they could trade up.
8. Buffalo - A really bad team - Around this spot is where the Saints could actually trade up with more picks. (See idea after pick rundown)
9. Detroit - They're just disappointed there isn't a WR to take here. - There are some players that would be intriguing for them in a trade up although plenty of guys that fill need positions. It's just there are premium guys at the positions they need a few spots up as well.
Another possibility? The Saints get the player they want in the Top 10 and with picks they've aquired, perhaps #29 from the Jets, #22 from the 9ers (recently aquired from Denver), plus their #2 pick, plus 2nd round and later picks aquired in tradedowns, the Saints trade back into the Top 10 and aquire a second elite talent. How about a Huff, Ngata, Young, Cutler, Bunkley, Davis, Hawk to go with a Brick or Mario Williams. Nice 2006 Draft right there.
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