Dropping an absentee owner from the league (1 Viewer)

[Dr. Awesome]

There's a guy in our league who started off pretty active but over the last few weeks he's been increasingly absent. Hell, he's carrying around a player who is on the IR (Barnett) - and this is a redraft league. Two weeks ago he started a bunch of guys on bye (has a lot of Lions/Colts players). I was okay with that move by itself, as I understand the whole 1 week < the season mentality (even though he could/should have made SOME moves). But he's been clearly less and less involved. So last Wednesday morning I sent him an email with my phone #, asking him to give me a ring by Friday so we could discuss his interest and participation in the league.

I didn't hear a peep from him so I dumped him from the league. The new owner quickly made a series of moves to improve the team (but still will probably lose). He did more in his first week than the new owner has done since week 1.

Tonight I received an email from the guy I kicked out asking "Dude, wtf? I miss one week and you give me the boot? I still want to play!"

How would you folk handle this type of situation were you in my shoes?

 

[JohnnyU]

A good commish must be confident in their decision making processes.

 

[-jb-]

How would you folk handle this type of situation were you in my shoes?

Differently. I agree with the AbsentGuy.

 

[Sabertooth]

I kicked my own brother out today. He isn't getting back in. If the guy wants back in, tell him he may have a chance next season.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

It's a free league, btw.

 

[footballnerd]

what's his record?

 

[Rebirtha]

It's a free league, btw.

Sounds like a neat league. Got any openings?

 

[golfguy]

tell him too bad. pay attention and maybe next year he can play again. fantasy football would be a lot better with people who are active and know what they are doing to some degree.

 

[footballnerd]

tell him too bad. pay attention and maybe next year he can play again. fantasy football would be a lot better with people who are active and know what they are doing to some degree.

ya sounds like new guy is enthusiastic about playing in a free league, prob a keeper.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

It's a fun league. Most of the owners came from a big $ league that ended last year after a decade plus of fun. I created this one to test out some new concepts for one year before deciding to make it a $ league and/or keeper league.

I largely viewed this year as a trial run to iron out the kinks and to remove any crappy owners. I don't care as much if you suck (thankfully only 1 guy has a crap team and it's mostly gambles that have backfired that caused that) as long as you're active.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

what's his record?

3-4 before this weekend. He started off fairly hot and has clearly put forth less effort each week.

 

[Air Stich]

I have a pretty good rule for my league:

If I believe that you have quit at any point in the season, your team will be locked and you will never be invited back to the league.

I use personal judgement to determine a quitter, but starting players on bye when they have other options available on the bench is an obvious sign.

 

[SWC]

If someone did that in one of my leagues I would probably kick him out and then do whatever I could to destroy him both personally and as a web based fantasy sports player.

Actually, I probably wouldn't do that and I don't know why you would kick a guy out if it was only one week... sometimes people go on vacation, or have a sick relative, or have to put thier pet cat or whatever maybe a hamster to sleep, or get busy at work, and it's a free league. Seems pretty harsh, brohan! I woud give him a second change and maybe you can both end up friends in the end and have a barbecue.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

We're friends without the league. We'll sometimes hit the bars for a karaoke night and I've no issues with the guy. It wasn't just one week (though that was a bad week). It's the fact he's been noticably less active/interested and when I sent him an email I didn't hear anything back. he didn't even notice he was kicked out until this afternoon...meaning his lineup would have again half assed.

 

[SWC]

Well, if he did that than maybe steal his identity and run up astronomical credit card and mortgage debt for him living a face paced lifestyle and taking a trip to the french riviera which will take him as many as seven years to fix and probably lead to an inevietable bankruptcy and teach him a valuable lesson about not devoting every waking moment of his free time to a free fantasy football league with his friends.

 

[flyonthewall]

It's a fun league. Most of the owners came from a big $ league that ended last year after a decade plus of fun. I created this one to test out some new concepts for one year before deciding to make it a $ league and/or keeper league.

I largely viewed this year as a trial run to iron out the kinks and to remove any crappy owners. I don't care as much if you suck (thankfully only 1 guy has a crap team and it's mostly gambles that have backfired that caused that) as long as you're active.

So after one absent week, you give him the boot? This "trial run" seems more like you were looking for a reason to get rid of him. Please tell me this guy doesnt have a better record than you?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

It's a fun league. Most of the owners came from a big $ league that ended last year after a decade plus of fun. I created this one to test out some new concepts for one year before deciding to make it a $ league and/or keeper league.

I largely viewed this year as a trial run to iron out the kinks and to remove any crappy owners. I don't care as much if you suck (thankfully only 1 guy has a crap team and it's mostly gambles that have backfired that caused that) as long as you're active.

So after one absent week, you give him the boot? This "trial run" seems more like you were looking for a reason to get rid of him. Please tell me this guy doesnt have a better record than you?

It's not just the one week. It's the fact he was still carrying a player who is on the IR despite the fact we have small rosters. It's the fact he stopped setting his lineup each week. It's the fact he stopped responding to anyone's trade offers. It's the fact he had no idea he was even booted from the league until this week...meaning his team would have AGAIN not set a full lineup.He's tied for last, but that's misleading as it means he's only 1 game back. We played H2H in week 2 when he was tearing things up and I destroyed him. He's no threat to me making the playoffs...and even if he were, the new owner is someone who will make things more difficult for the rest of us.

Simply because it's a free league doesn't give people free reign to mail it in. I want to beat everyone but I want to beat everyone because I put together the better team...it's not any fun beating the Corky's.

 

[captbly]

Pull a Reid and let him back in. You shouldnt have dropped him over 1 week.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

It's not the one week that was the sole reason I dropped him...it's the one week that was the final straw. Maybe I'm doing one of those things I always mock, which is coming here for advice then ignoring it. It just seems I've done a poor job of conveying the fact the bye week issues were what pushed me to send him an email. After not hearing from him Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, I kicked him out. I feel the fact he didn't even notice he'd been kicked out of the league until tonight shows I made the right decision. He wouldn't have adjusted his lineup and would have lost due to being lazy and indifferent. The new owner barely squeaked out a victory on Freeney's last minute sack/fumble.

 

[The_U]

It's not the one week that was the sole reason I dropped him...it's the one week that was the final straw. Maybe I'm doing one of those things I always mock, which is coming here for advice then ignoring it. It just seems I've done a poor job of conveying the fact the bye week issues were what pushed me to send him an email. After not hearing from him Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, I kicked him out. I feel the fact he didn't even notice he'd been kicked out of the league until tonight shows I made the right decision. He wouldn't have adjusted his lineup and would have lost due to being lazy and indifferent. The new owner barely squeaked out a victory on Freeney's last minute sack/fumble.

I think you made a good call Doc. The point this is not a one week violation has been lost on many in this thread.I have lots of good to great friends I have bypassed on invitations for my league when a vacancy has opened. Good friends don't always equal good franchise owners. The good of the league was your intent. Stick with your first instinct; you handled it fine. A key point for me was he didn't even notice he was gone till today, meaning (as you said) yet another crappy week of no lineup updates was indeed on tap.Adios, amigo.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Thanks, The_U.

 

[Ray_T]

I have a pretty good rule for my league:If I believe that you have quit at any point in the season, your team will be locked and you will never be invited back to the league.I use personal judgement to determine a quitter, but starting players on bye when they have other options available on the bench is an obvious sign.

I agree with this in general.also, we have a rule in our league. If you are not gonna be around for a week or two, you send an email out and alert the commish and give the commish permission to make lineup changes on your behalf in the event there is a last minute injury or scratch from the lineup.if you leave and fail to do those things, you are gone.

 

[jah2707]

So do you just lock the team or do you set the line up each week?

 

[kellumsboys]

good move on your part.

sounds like you gave him a couple of weeks to finally hang himself.

even though it is a free and fun league this year, if you decided to make it a $ league next year, what would keep him from doing the same thing?

 

[Hoosier16]

So last Wednesday morning I sent him an email with my phone #, asking him to give me a ring by Friday so we could discuss his interest and participation in the league. I didn't hear a peep from him so I dumped him from the league.

That seems pretty quick. Since you know the guy, I probably would have tried a little harder to contact him before giving him the boot. Like others have said, other stuff goes on in life.

 

[SWC]

We have a rule in my free, not for money, fun league that we are friends to start with and fantasy football is pretty much second and that we wouldn't do something we wouldn't do to a homeboy in the real world just because we can sweep it under the rug with an "it's fantasy football " type statement, which is potentially what may be occuring here, because the commissioner is afraid of the guy he handed the old team to.

I'm not trying to be critical i'm just telling you that i think it's pretty crummy and just as much as teh commissioner wants to say "the guy never returned a call to me after i sent an e-mail" the commissioner hasn't said that he actually tried to call the guy he kciked out, either. IN short, he's saying you didn't do what I didn't do so you're wrong but I'm not. That doesn't make sense to me, and I just think it's crummy that's all.

Added just now: I'm not trying to start a fight with the OP -- I am just giving my opinion so that others in this situation in the future will at least have smoe imput from both sides of the kick him out destroy his credit rating/keep him as a friend and have a barbecue dichotomy.

 

[road warrior]

As a commish, I'll give someone a 1-week screwup. I'd address it immediately and if ignored, you'd be gone. And never invited back.

For all that don't see this.... tell me how you'd feel if the team playing with byes lose to a team you're neck and neck with. Then decides to come back a couple weeks later, show up and kick your ###. You think your feelings might be a little different? I'm betting you'd be the first to complain.

 

[SWC]

Wow everyone here saying that they "give one week," etc., and then "you'd be gone" and "never invited back" must be real fun at parties. Jeeesh!

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Wow everyone here saying that they "give one week," etc., and then "you'd be gone" and "never invited back" must be real fun at parties. Jeeesh!

Fantasy football is fun...but it isn't one big party. No reason to ruin it for the rest of the league if you can't take two minutes a week to set a lineup. If you don't care, great. Just move on and give the spot to someone who will actually take a couple of minutes to field a real team. If you're too busy for that, then let someone else do it who is less busy. It's really that simple.It doesn't matter if it's a free league or high-stakes league. Owners who slack in a free league will slack in a money league once they're out of contention. That affects match ups for other teams throughout the year. One of the downsides of this hobby's popularity is it attracts the interests of people who don't really care to play it through or don't understand that ignoring their team affects other teams as well.The fewer of those owners in your league, the better. Let them go somewhere else. The commissioner did the right thing.

 

[username]

Noone picks up the phone anymore?

 

[Sweet Love]

I think the issue that people are opposing is not so much that Doc cut the guy loose, but that the guy was never given a warning. In my local FBG league, we had a guy submit a bunch of guys on a bye week. Commish used the Chat function on MFL to warn him about submitting faulty lineups and we have not had an issue since (and it gave the guy a kick in the tail). From a professional standpoint, would you just fire someone you managed or would you take the time to tell them what they are doing wrong and how it effects everyone and then warn them if it happens again, you will have to terminate them.

Just think the guy should have gotten one warning.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I think the issue that people are opposing is not so much that Doc cut the guy loose, but that the guy was never given a warning. In my local FBG league, we had a guy submit a bunch of guys on a bye week. Commish used the Chat function on MFL to warn him about submitting faulty lineups and we have not had an issue since (and it gave the guy a kick in the tail). From a professional standpoint, would you just fire someone you managed or would you take the time to tell them what they are doing wrong and how it effects everyone and then warn them if it happens again, you will have to terminate them.Just think the guy should have gotten one warning.

I thought he did get a warning, but didn't call or e-mail back. He also surfaced AFTER this past week's games, so he would have ignored his team for a second straight week. Using the professional analogy, if you don't show up for work and your boss told you to contact them to find out what's going on...and you ignore that call...you're losing your job. Fantasy football isn't work, but it does affect others when you ignore your team. That's not fair to the rest of the league.

 

[SWC]

I think the issue that people are opposing is not so much that Doc cut the guy loose, but that the guy was never given a warning. In my local FBG league, we had a guy submit a bunch of guys on a bye week. Commish used the Chat function on MFL to warn him about submitting faulty lineups and we have not had an issue since (and it gave the guy a kick in the tail). From a professional standpoint, would you just fire someone you managed or would you take the time to tell them what they are doing wrong and how it effects everyone and then warn them if it happens again, you will have to terminate them.Just think the guy should have gotten one warning.

I thought he did get a warning, but didn't call or e-mail back. He also surfaced AFTER this past week's games, so he would have ignored his team for a second straight week. Using the professional analogy, if you don't show up for work and your boss told you to contact them to find out what's going on...and you ignore that call...you're losing your job. Fantasy football isn't work, but it does affect others when you ignore your team. That's not fair to the rest of the league.

1. In a job, money is on the line.1a. This is a free league where no money is on the line.2. This was a friend league made up of buddies.2a. The "friend" was given one crappy e-mail warning (rather than a phone call, which ironically the e-mail deamnded from the errant owner) and then canned.3. This is not a job -- it's a fun league free no money ffball league.3a. This is a not job -- it's a fun league free no money ffball league.4. If you take free not for money leagues this seriously that you get one call that's all then you are cut never invited back, etc. I'm a tough guy type stuff, then you probably have high blood pressure enough already and should remember friends first and take up another hobby possibly model railroading and eat better for your heart.4.a. I don't wnat to type that again so see above.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I didn't call the guy because his phone is broken and he's yet to get a new one. He's been using his gf's until his contract is up next month.

I can be quite fun at parties but that has no bearing on the league. He didn't devote every waking moment to it but simply because it's a free and fun league that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a minimum level of participation. When you've clearly put forth less effort each week and eventually field a lineup with nearly everyone on a bye, it's imo time for a warning. Had he responded to my email I would have given him a warning. He didn't. No one thing made me push him out...starting guys on a bye can be a viable strategy (take one big loss but have your team at full strength the rest of the season), but when you don't even bother to put in guys from your bench into your starting lineup who are actually playing, it's a huge red flag. When you have a player who is on the IR sitting on your bench for a couple weeks despite us having small rosters and him needing the help, it's a red flag. When you stop posting anything to the league and start ignoring trade offers after starting off being fairly involved, it's a red flag. When I send you an email and ask for ANY kind of response and you don't get back to me within three days, it's a red flag. Finally, when I kick you out the league and you don't even notice it until the following week, that is a huge red flag.

I didn't lock his roster...I found a replacement owner who I felt would do a much better job. So I made the switch before his team lost another game and fell further behind. The new owner barely pulled out a victory, winning by 4.something thanks to Freeney's last minute sack/fumble. Had the other owner remained, it would have been another loss largely due to not fielding a full lineup. My team would be in much better shape had I left the other owner in the league, as he would have lost and I would have essentially locked up a playoff spot barring losing every game moving forward.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Just because something is competetive doesn't mean it can't be fun. It is no fun for me to beat someone who is clearly not trying. How long was I supposed to wait? Until his team was clearly out of the playoffs so the replacement owner could have no chance?

 

[SWC]

nOW you are just adding facts to make your story look better about the phone being broken and all... if his phone was broke how did you expect him to call you back and maybe that is the only way he gets his e-mail in this mobile generation of handheld devices like the Droid 2.0.

I think you feel bad in your heart of haerts and should probably invite him over for a barbecue, although given the anger issues in this thread maybe you should barbecue some vegetarian fare and serve only milk so that a fight doesn't erupt.

I'm just joking byut I hope that you feel like you made the right call because I would have talked to my buddy before I dropped him like that especially if I knew he was having communicatino problems.... just sayin.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

nOW you are just adding facts to make your story look better about the phone being broken and all... if his phone was broke how did you expect him to call you back and maybe that is the only way he gets his e-mail in this mobile generation of handheld devices like the Droid 2.0.I think you feel bad in your heart of haerts and should probably invite him over for a barbecue, although given the anger issues in this thread maybe you should barbecue some vegetarian fare and serve only milk so that a fight doesn't erupt. I'm just joking byut I hope that you feel like you made the right call because I would have talked to my buddy before I dropped him like that especially if I knew he was having communicatino problems.... just sayin.

I should have added all the other details to start with, but to be honest it didn't occur to me to mention things until you folk brought it up.He uses his gf's phone if he needs to.I do feel bad, but I feel like I made the right call for the league as a whole. I think it not only makes the league better, but it leaves a clear message to pay attention.

 

[username]

Twenty bucks the replacement owner surfaced before the weak email went out and this came to a head.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I'm not sure what you mean. I've known the replacement owner for years. He used to be in my old $ league and we still chat regularly. After a couple weeks of the guy I gave the boot clearly paying less attention, I sent him the email. Then I asked the new owner if he had any interest in being a replacement. He jumped at the chance but I told him the other guy had through Friday to respond...if I didn't hear from him by then the team would be his.

It seems pretty logical to line up a replacement asap once you've decided to possibly replace someone.

 

[the UFFRM]

We're friends without the league. We'll sometimes hit the bars for a karaoke night and I've no issues with the guy. It wasn't just one week (though that was a bad week). It's the fact he's been noticably less active/interested and when I sent him an email I didn't hear anything back. he didn't even notice he was kicked out until this afternoon...meaning his lineup would have again half assed.

If you never heard from him by phone you are completely justified.

 

[the UFFRM]

Twenty bucks the replacement owner surfaced before the weak email went out and this came to a head.

This is a questionable post considering you know nothing of the real life details of the situation.

 

[mcdons3]

Free leagues with friends are Serious Business, I guess.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Free leagues with friends are Serious Business, I guess.

I understand most of the criticism I've received, but these comments are simply asinine. Because it's a free league with friends somehow makes it totally okay to mail it in?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I think the issue that people are opposing is not so much that Doc cut the guy loose, but that the guy was never given a warning. In my local FBG league, we had a guy submit a bunch of guys on a bye week. Commish used the Chat function on MFL to warn him about submitting faulty lineups and we have not had an issue since (and it gave the guy a kick in the tail). From a professional standpoint, would you just fire someone you managed or would you take the time to tell them what they are doing wrong and how it effects everyone and then warn them if it happens again, you will have to terminate them.Just think the guy should have gotten one warning.

I thought he did get a warning, but didn't call or e-mail back. He also surfaced AFTER this past week's games, so he would have ignored his team for a second straight week. Using the professional analogy, if you don't show up for work and your boss told you to contact them to find out what's going on...and you ignore that call...you're losing your job. Fantasy football isn't work, but it does affect others when you ignore your team. That's not fair to the rest of the league.

1. In a job, money is on the line.1a. This is a free league where no money is on the line.2. This was a friend league made up of buddies.2a. The "friend" was given one crappy e-mail warning (rather than a phone call, which ironically the e-mail deamnded from the errant owner) and then canned.3. This is not a job -- it's a fun league free no money ffball league.3a. This is a not job -- it's a fun league free no money ffball league.4. If you take free not for money leagues this seriously that you get one call that's all then you are cut never invited back, etc. I'm a tough guy type stuff, then you probably have high blood pressure enough already and should remember friends first and take up another hobby possibly model railroading and eat better for your heart.4.a. I don't wnat to type that again so see above.

I'm sorry that people don't understand the difference between meeting your obligations and taking things too seriously. Nobody suggested blood pressure should skyrocket over fantasy football. But nobody forced them to join, and it takes two minutes a week to be active. If you're going to play in a free league, you should at least come clean with your intentions:a) I'll play in your free league and I'll be an active owner and try to win. It's a fun game and I'd like to be successful.b) I'll play in your free league but I'll ignore it when I want and only be active when I feel like it. I don't care how it affects other owners. Whatever I do is okay because "it's a free league" so who cares? Since there's no money I don't care but I'm willing to have my name on your owners list, I guess. I'm saying you should kick b) out ASAP. if you don't care, don't waste everyone's time and ruin their league. If you don't have the good sense to quit, don't be surprised when you get the boot. Incidentally, I take both free and money leagues "seriously," as in be active and try to win. If I put my name on it I'm going to give my best effort. But I don't take it too seriously, regardless of money on the line. I don't gamble what I can't afford to lose. No matter how much you play for, it's just a game. It's supposed to be fun. I also realize that my actions can affect other owners, and it might be their main league. If you're too busy to be bothered with this annoying free league, ditch it and let the people who enjoy it replace you. I don't understand how "it's a free league" can be a valid excuse for screwing up and messing up everyone else's fun. If you have too much on your plate, get a smaller plate. If this is just a game and supposed to be fun...don't ruin everyone else's fun. meeting your obligations is different from taking things too seriously.

 

[Phantom Knight]

It's not the one week that was the sole reason I dropped him...it's the one week that was the final straw. Maybe I'm doing one of those things I always mock, which is coming here for advice then ignoring it. It just seems I've done a poor job of conveying the fact the bye week issues were what pushed me to send him an email. After not hearing from him Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, I kicked him out. I feel the fact he didn't even notice he'd been kicked out of the league until tonight shows I made the right decision. He wouldn't have adjusted his lineup and would have lost due to being lazy and indifferent. The new owner barely squeaked out a victory on Freeney's last minute sack/fumble.

I think you made a good call Doc. The point this is not a one week violation has been lost on many in this thread.I have lots of good to great friends I have bypassed on invitations for my league when a vacancy has opened. Good friends don't always equal good franchise owners. The good of the league was your intent. Stick with your first instinct; you handled it fine. A key point for me was he didn't even notice he was gone till today, meaning (as you said) yet another crappy week of no lineup updates was indeed on tap.Adios, amigo.

+1 If your email to him explicitly stated that he was about to be booted, then I think you are aok. The only thing I *might* have done differently at that point is allow a tad bit more time for him to reply. Hpwever, I realize that is a difficult thing given the need for a potential new owner to have time to work his roster before kickoff Sunday.

 

[footballnerd]

Sorry man, you got booted for not maintaining your team for 2 weeks is very reasonable.

There's only 13 weeks in a regular season.

 

[SWC]

Now i'm just talking to respond to some of the sentiment in this thread and not trying to make Dr. Awesome feel bad or be ajerk to him... just so that is said.

What I don't understand is that the commish demanded a CALL by an E-MAIL, but didn't bother to CALL the owner... the owner probably thought based on what we heard that they were buds and nothing like that would happen but then BAM, hes out on the street without so much as a call like a bum looking for a home fantasy fooball league and it just doesn't seem right to me.

Technology is great but man, pick up that bat phone, you know what I'm saying Commissioner Gordon? Bros before taking ffball to a crazy extreme and abandoning friendships over it.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Now i'm just talking to respond to some of the sentiment in this thread and not trying to make Dr. Awesome feel bad or be ajerk to him... just so that is said.

What I don't understand is that the commish demanded a CALL by an E-MAIL, but didn't bother to CALL the owner... the owner probably thought based on what we heard that they were buds and nothing like that would happen but then BAM, hes out on the street without so much as a call like a bum looking for a home fantasy fooball league and it just doesn't seem right to me.

Technology is great but man, pick up that bat phone, you know what I'm saying Commissioner Gordon? Bros before taking ffball to a crazy extreme and abandoning friendships over it.

I would flip that around. The guy should understand why he got the boot and not make a big deal about it. He's the one who let the league down, so he should understand and everyone should remain friends. What's wrong with that? Don't take it to a crazy extreme and get angry about getting replaced if you're not active.

 

[smitty63]

I'd kick him out and invite his girl over for a barbeque. That'll fix him.

Really though, if you're asking, you may be feeling a bit guilty about booting him?

 

[SWC]

Now i'm just talking to respond to some of the sentiment in this thread and not trying to make Dr. Awesome feel bad or be ajerk to him... just so that is said.

What I don't understand is that the commish demanded a CALL by an E-MAIL, but didn't bother to CALL the owner... the owner probably thought based on what we heard that they were buds and nothing like that would happen but then BAM, hes out on the street without so much as a call like a bum looking for a home fantasy fooball league and it just doesn't seem right to me.

Technology is great but man, pick up that bat phone, you know what I'm saying Commissioner Gordon? Bros before taking ffball to a crazy extreme and abandoning friendships over it.

I would flip that around. The guy should understand why he got the boot and not make a big deal about it. He's the one who let the league down, so he should understand and everyone should remain friends. What's wrong with that? Don't take it to a crazy extreme and get angry about getting replaced if you're not active.

you know what you are partially right and maybe they are both pretty much being jerks -- one should have set a lineup and one should have picked up a phone. i think the best solution would ahve been for the COMMISH to talk to a vice commish or trusted trio of other owners and set the lineup for a week, and figure out what was going on in the interim. I would not drop an owners unless you made more than 1 e-mails of effort to contact him and would try my best to talk to him on the phone before doing any such thing you know what I'm sayin brohan?