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Dwayne Allen broken foot? (1 Viewer)

UKColt said:
Yeah, the chances of him being a fantasy option are slim but it just feels a bit like the stars might be aligning for him.

First we had Brazill's suspension which opened the door to the WR4 job, now we have this which will mean more snaps for the WRs. He's still a deep sleeper, but I've rostered him in every deep league I'm in just in case.

A big blow for the team to lose Allen though, as I think he's the 2nd best all around TE in the league after Gronk.
Take off the rose colored glasses.
Yeah, wow! Considering he's the 2nd best TE on his own team behind Luck's BFF Fleener. I can't believe just how much some people underrate Fleener, even now.....
No way Fleener is a better TE than Allen. From a fantasy stand point, yes but I am talking about skills as an ALL AROUND TE.

Obviously guys like Witten, Graham, Gonzo, Davis and even Fleener are better fantasy tight ends because they will put up better receiving stats, but Allen is an elite blocker as well as a good receiving threat, so his loss is very big to the team.
I'm sorry, I thought this was a fantasy football site. I'm more concerned with receiving stats since those are the types of leagues I play in. We don't reward points for blocking.
sometimes they can be more interrelated than you are making them out to be...

allen's more complete game could allow him to see the field more often...

fleener may be underrated, i do think he does better this year, but the bar is low, he did very little last year, it would be hard for him to not be underrated...

you seem to be underrating what allen did last year, he did have a far better year...

i think one of the main issues isn't just that fleener is more explosive receiver and allen better blocker (others have noted this), but allen is more physical and stronger, and may be superior short-intermediate route weapon... arians reportedly liked to throw the ball down the field, the new OC (luck and fleener's old OC in stanford) is said to prefer a more short-intermediate game, to get the ball out of luck's hands more quickly...

 
Allen looked better all last preseason and regular season, performed better, and stayed healthy. If you prefer Fleener, fine. The jury is still out on both, and Fleener may well turn out to be better, I just am not sure where the

attitude that Fleener is the better fantasy option come from. Thus far, football or fantasy, Allen has been the better player.
:goodposting: If you actually watch football Allen is the better option. I've been aquiring Allen in dynasty leagues because of this.
I actually watch football and ACTUALLY have attended their TRAINING CAMP. So, I have seen it with my own eyes. But, you know, whatever.

I'm pretty sure last year is in the past. Enjoy!

 
Allen looked better all last preseason and regular season, performed better, and stayed healthy. If you prefer Fleener, fine. The jury is still out on both, and Fleener may well turn out to be better, I just am not sure where the

attitude that Fleener is the better fantasy option come from. Thus far, football or fantasy, Allen has been the better player.
:goodposting: If you actually watch football Allen is the better option. I've been aquiring Allen in dynasty leagues because of this.
I actually watch football and ACTUALLY have attended their TRAINING CAMP. So, I have seen it with my own eyes. But, you know, whatever.

I'm pretty sure last year is in the past. Enjoy!
I'm a Colts homer and yes, Allen has looked a lot better than Fleener so far. If memory serves Allen was also ranked higher than Fleener on most scouting reports just before their draft.

 
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Allen looked better all last preseason and regular season, performed better, and stayed healthy. If you prefer Fleener, fine. The jury is still out on both, and Fleener may well turn out to be better, I just am not sure where the

attitude that Fleener is the better fantasy option come from. Thus far, football or fantasy, Allen has been the better player.
:goodposting: If you actually watch football Allen is the better option. I've been aquiring Allen in dynasty leagues because of this.
I actually watch football and ACTUALLY have attended their TRAINING CAMP. So, I have seen it with my own eyes. But, you know, whatever.

I'm pretty sure last year is in the past. Enjoy!
Just because YOU attended training camp doesn't make you an EXPERT. Fleener is the sexier pick but Allen is the better TE.

 
Allen looked better all last preseason and

regular season, performed better, and stayed healthy. If you prefer Fleener, fine. The jury is still out on both, and Fleener may well turn out to be better, I just am not sure where the

attitude that Fleener is the better fantasy option come from. Thus far, football or fantasy, Allen has been the better player.
:goodposting: If you actually watch football Allen is the better option. I've been aquiring Allen in dynasty leagues because of this.
I actually watch football and ACTUALLY have attended their TRAINING CAMP. So, I have seen it with my own eyes. But, you know, whatever.I'm pretty sure last year is in the past. Enjoy!
Just because YOU attended training camp doesn't make you an EXPERT. Fleener is the sexier pick but Allen is the better TE.
In my not so expert opinion, I will wager Fleener outscores Allen by 20 fantasy points in a standard TD PPR LEAGUE. ANY TAKERS???

 
Allen looked better all last preseason and

regular season, performed better, and stayed healthy. If you prefer Fleener, fine. The jury is still out on both, and Fleener may well turn out to be better, I just am not sure where the

attitude that Fleener is the better fantasy option come from. Thus far, football or fantasy, Allen has been the better player.
:goodposting: If you actually watch football Allen is the better option. I've been aquiring Allen in dynasty leagues because of this.
I actually watch football and ACTUALLY have attended their TRAINING CAMP. So, I have seen it with my own eyes. But, you know, whatever.I'm pretty sure last year is in the past. Enjoy!
Just because YOU attended training campdoesn't make you an EXPERT. Fleener is the sexier pick but Allen is the better TE.
In my not so expert opinion, I will wager Fleener outscores Allen by 20 fantasy points in a standard TD PPR LEAGUE. ANY TAKERS???
If both are healthy from beginning to end of the regular season I'll take you up on that. How about $50?

Edited: Well?

 
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this may be rendered a moot point, if allen does have a broken foot, though still relevant for dynasty...

while fleener has second round pedigree, and allen more modest third round, my recollection is some scouts graded them as the two best TEs in the class (for different reasons, they do have different skill sets as noted... more precisely, allen has a more or less complete skill set, unlike fleener, though he does lack explosive speed... i forgot allen ran such a slow 40 ((plodding, nearly 4.9... but proverbial - he plays faster)), and fleener was so fast ((very fast 4.5 combine? elite, near-vernon davis, jared cook, among best-in-NFL-for-TE position, elite 4.45 pro day - just imo, can't say he looked like he played THAT fast when i saw him play at stanford))... that said, seeing how the division of labor was parsed, and the receptions distributed last year, and given allen's more well rounded, complete game and multi-talented skill set, fleener's projection to be the top receiving TE going forward seems murkier, and not as straightforward as allens - it's certainly possible, just not obvious why one would assume fleener will do better than allen, based on respective rookie seasons)... but i parenthetically digressed - overarching point that led off the paragraph was that despite pedigree gap, actual talent gap may be negligible, it isn't like there were a half dozen TEs far higher graded than allen that went off the board between fleener and him... BTW, allen was the all-american and mackey winner, not fleener...

recapping an earlier point in passing, blocking ability shouldn't be cavalierly dismissed, it can have DIRECT fantasy scoring corollary and repercussions, IF it allows prospect in question to be on the field most/all the time, as opposed to a more situational receiving weapon...

fleener's history with luck and new OC is cited as reason while he will surpass allen... but that was in place last year (between luck and fleener, at least, 2013 OC still at stanford?), and that didn't prevent allen from surprising... no doubt the team appreciates fleener (they drafted him after all), he does have some positives and we should expect the Colts to involve him more, but if anything, allen's role seems more entrenched (he's done it already - not having done nearly as much a rookie, fleener's projected role more speculative)...

allen... pro football focus - from secret superstar series...

business excerpts/exec summary (comped with witten) - "A tight end’s receiving production ultimately comes down to utilization within an offense. This is the reason why a lumbering bull like Jason Witten can put up almost twice as many receiving yards as a physical freak like Vernon Davis, or why Dallas Clark can fall from relevance among top tier tight ends after losing Peyton Manning."

"Allen has obvious limitations to his upside. His size means he’ll probably never be a road-grading third tackle (although he’s close), while his athleticism means he won’t put up receiver like numbers any time soon. A good comparison for his upside would be a player like Witten. He’ll continue to be an elite blocker and has all the tools to become an exceptional receiver. The best thing for Allen in his development is that he’ll most likely build a relationship with a quality quarterback over his entire career. With great hands and solid route running skills, Allen should provide a safety net for Luck for the foreseeable future."

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/26/secret-superstar-dwayne-allen/

Following a 2-14 season in 2011, the Indianapolis Colts were in need of offensive weapons. Peyton Manning had been the lifeblood of the franchise for a decade and it was clear the talent around him had degraded over time. GM Ryan Grigson addressed the problem head-on, using six of the Colts’ first seven draft picks on offensive skill positions. Those six would combine to set rookie records for passing yards (4,374) and total yards from scrimmage (3,108), and propel the Colts to the playoffs after an 11-5 season.

Immediately after that 2012 draft, the talk in Indy was about a certain quarterback-tight end combination. At the time, third-round selection Dwayne Allen was an afterthought. A superfluous pick considering the Colts supposed tight end of the future, Coby Fleener, had just been selected a round earlier. That narrative ran all the way through the start of the season, but by Week 3 the tides had changed. Allen started receiving the bulk of the snaps for the first time that week and didn’t look back. For the year he played 493 more snaps, had 240 more receiving yards, and had an overall grade 22.5 points better than Fleener. Allen was PFF’s second-highest graded tight end in the NFL last season, and for that he is the Colts’ Secret Superstar.

A Complete Tight End

Coming out of Clemson he had a reputation as a complete tight end. So much so that Allen won the John Mackey award as the NCAA’s best tight end, despite having only the seventh-most receiving yards (590) and second-most touchdowns (eight). He was then lauded as a possible first-round pick when he declared for the draft, but his stock tumbled quickly from there.

At the combine his numbers were less than stellar. Questions arose after he measured at only 6-foot-3 after he was listed by Clemson at 6-foot-4. Allen then proceeded to run a sluggish 4.89 40-yard dash and showed average athleticism in the subsequent drills. It became apparent to scouts that he neither had elite size nor speed, and he dropped swiftly all the way to the top of the third round.

Translating to the Next Level

What teams underestimated about Allen’s game was his blocking prowess. One of the harder abilities to scout in tight ends, blocking is about size, coaching, and effort. What scouts didn’t see in Allen was prototypical size and they likely questioned if his blocking skills would translate to the next level. The good news for the Colts is they did.

For the season, Allen had a run blocking grade of +10.1, third-best among tight ends and best among full-time tight ends. We graded him as having 56 positive blocks and 31 negative blocks. However, Allen wasn’t just a successful run blocker, he also graded out very positively in screen blocking and pass blocking. One of his best assets as a blocker is the ability to line up anywhere on the field, and indeed he lined up at 21 unique positions over the course of the season. He did a great job of using his leverage to his advantage and was the type of tight end you’d feel comfortable having singled on a down lineman.

Stepping Up as a Receiver

As a rookie Allen was more than competent as a receiver. He caught 45 balls for 521 yards, but maybe more importantly had a drop rate of just 6.25, 11th among tight ends. The biggest knocks on his receiving game both stem from questions about his athleticism. In 2012, Allen was below average after the catches, breaking only three tackles all year. He also rarely got open down the field, with only four targets farther than 20 yards down the field, and only one catch on those passes. He posted an ADoT 7.8 yards and a target percentage of 17.4 which ranked 26th and 27th respectively out of 37 qualifying tight ends. These numbers suggest that Allen ran mostly safety routes and wasn’t normally a featured option.

A tight end’s receiving production ultimately comes down to utilization within an offense. This is the reason why a lumbering bull like Jason Witten can put up almost twice as many receiving yards as a physical freak like Vernon Davis, or why Dallas Clark can fall from relevance among top tier tight ends after losing Peyton Manning.

For this reason I believe Allen could take a big step up in the receiving game in the coming seasons. He will continue to develop a better relationship with Andrew Luck and see a better target percentage. One of the things that will help him out more than anything is the development of his rookie quarterback. Luck had a sensational rookie season, but was plagued by inconsistent accuracy. This was especially apparent in the 0-10 yard range where Allen thrives. On those passes Luck completed a dismal 64% of his throws while the league average was 72%. Considering that 75% of Allen’s targets occurred within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage he could see a nice bump in production just from Luck’s accuracy development.

The Next Big Thing?

Allen has obvious limitations to his upside. His size means he’ll probably never be a road-grading third tackle (although he’s close), while his athleticism means he won’t put up receiver like numbers any time soon. A good comparison for his upside would be a player like Witten. He’ll continue to be an elite blocker and has all the tools to become an exceptional receiver. The best thing for Allen in his development is that he’ll most likely build a relationship with a quality quarterback over his entire career. With great hands and solid route running skills, Allen should provide a safety net for Luck for the foreseeable future.

 
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Allen looked better all last preseason and

regular season, performed better, and stayed healthy. If you prefer Fleener, fine. The jury is still out on both, and Fleener may well turn out to be better, I just am not sure where the

attitude that Fleener is the better fantasy option come from. Thus far, football or fantasy, Allen has been the better player.
:goodposting: If you actually watch football Allen is the better option. I've been aquiring Allen in dynasty leagues because of this.
I actually watch football and ACTUALLY have attended their TRAINING CAMP. So, I have seen it with my own eyes. But, you know, whatever.

I'm pretty sure last year is in the past. Enjoy!
Just because YOU attended training campdoesn't make you an EXPERT. Fleener is the sexier pick but Allen is the better TE.
In my not so expert opinion, I will wager Fleener outscores Allen by 20 fantasy points in a standard TD PPR LEAGUE. ANY TAKERS???
If both are healthy from beginning to end of the regular season I'll take you up on that. How about $50?Edited: Well?
What qualifies as healthy? If he is active?

I'll gladly take the bet! Book it!

 
I picked up Allen as an afterthought in a rookie draft, and kind of stumbled into a not bad rookie TE.

I think the consensus was going to be that Allen was more of the in line guy, and Fleener the move TE, more catches and looks. Just going by what I saw last year, I would say that I think Fleener wasn't as smooth and athletic as I was led to believe, not as natural an athlete. Also, that Allen was more athletic that he was given credit for.

As I said, there is no final word on either one of these guys.

I was more taking exception to someone saying he wants the better fantasy TE, and referring to Fleener as if it was common knowledge. Allen outplayed him last year.

I actually think it's most likely if I had to guess, that they post relatively similar (decent to good) numbers, and are both average TE2s. I think Luck will have plenty of TDs and yards to go around, and I see Wayne, and Hilton getting theirs, and then a whole lot of opportunity.

i could see 40-55 catches, and 5 TDs for both of them, wouldn't surprise me one bit.

 
I picked up Allen as an afterthought in a rookie draft, and kind of stumbled into a not bad rookie TE.

I think the consensus was going to be that Allen was more of the in line guy, and Fleener the move TE, more catches and looks. Just going by what I saw last year, I would say that I think Fleener wasn't as smooth and athletic as I was led to believe, not as natural an athlete. Also, that Allen was more athletic that he was given credit for.

As I said, there is no final word on either one of these guys.

I was more taking exception to someone saying he wants the better fantasy TE, and referring to Fleener as if it was common knowledge. Allen outplayed him last year.

I actually think it's most likely if I had to guess, that they post relatively similar (decent to good) numbers, and are both average TE2s. I think Luck will have plenty of TDs and yards to go around, and I see Wayne, and Hilton getting theirs, and then a whole lot of opportunity.

i could see 40-55 catches, and 5 TDs for both of them, wouldn't surprise me one bit.
excellent point, in emphasizing that i don't think it is obvious why we should expect fleener to smoke allen because the former is clearly more "talented" than the latter (guess that is two points i'm disputing), i forgot to mention that doesn't imply the converse, that i think allen will smoke fleener...

like massraider, i could also easily see a fairly even scoring distribution at the end of the year, or even over their careers (health permitting level playing field-type comparison)... between the twenties, i could see allen getting 20-25% more receptions, because of his superior strength and ability to use his bigger body to position DBs like power forward boxing out for a rebound... that could be mitigated by fleener's greater speed leading to higher YPC efficiencies, where he could get same or more yards with fewer receptions... he could also generate more long scores... though allens greater size and power could come in handy in more congested passing lanes in red zone (so TDs could be a wash)...

clearly a discussion about what constitutes more talented, if different potential meanings and interpretations are accounted for and mutually understood, could take several paths, one about more specific receiving weapon trait, and the other more general, about how well rounded their resprctive games are... as long as we know what we are talking about, even if not necessarily agree on the implications, that enables a lucid, coherent breakdown of their respective strengths and weaknesses...

* to make an additional clarification, in a base one TE passing scheme, it is better to be well rounded TE... in a base two TE scheme, being primary receiving TE and lacking blocking prowess can be a good thing, so that could be an important distinction to make... did the colts run more one or two TE base formations... perhaps this evolved as the season progressed?

 
I think Fleener is a better redraft and dynasty prospect than Allen. A recent post on this:

I'm with Bruce Hammond on this one and believe Fleener will outscore Allen this year.
Out of curiosity, why?
Here are some other opinions. From Rotoworld:

The National Football Post's Dan Pompei reports the Colts plan to use second-year TE Coby Fleener more as a vertical threat this season.

Fleener averaged just 10.8 YPR on 26 catches as a rookie. Over his final two years at Stanford, he averaged 17.6 YPR on 62 grabs under OC Pep Hamilton. Fleener and fellow second-year TE Dwayne Allen will both see the field a ton, which is going to put a cap on both of their potential fantasy outputs. We like Fleener a bit more than Allen, but he's nothing more than a mid-to-low TE2. Jun 16 - 10:18 AM

Source: National Football Post
Coach Chuck Pagano said he expects Coby Fleener's reception total to double this season.

Serving mostly as an in-line tight end for Bruce Arians, Fleener was asked to block far too often as a rookie. It resulted in a disappointing 26/281/2 line in 12 games. Now Arians is in Arizona and Fleener is reunited with former Stanford offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton. Over his final two years of college, Fleener totaled 62 catches, 1,107 yards and 17 touchdowns while acting in his natural role as a pure pass catcher. He's on the TE2 radar as a sneaky upside pick. May 30 - 9:57 AM

Source: Anderson Herald Bulletin
Colts GM Ryan Grigson says the plan is to use second-year TE Coby Fleener out in space more often in 2013.

Fleener, the No. 34 overall pick in last year's draft, had a mostly disappointing rookie campaign. He played in just 13 games, including the playoffs, due to a shoulder injury and caught only 29 passes for 306 yards and two touchdowns. A pure pass catcher in college, Fleener was asked to block nearly half of the time as a rookie. Per Pro Football Focus, he ran just 9.1 percent of his routes out of the slot. Expect that to be much higher this season. Mar 25 - 7:01 PM

Source: Vic Ryckaert on Twitter
New Colts OC Pep Hamilton believes TE Dwayne Allen can be a "tremendous weapon."

"If you just look at the versatility of Dwayne Allen," said Hamilton, "and his ability to line up in the backfield and lead block, or detach and line up in the slot and win the one-on-one matchup, that’s a tremendous weapon." Hamilton's opinion jibes with Allen's rookie-year film. Although Allen's elite blocking is a major asset for the Colts' offense, it caps his fantasy upside. Feb 15 - 9:43 AM

Source: colts.com
Colts Offense

Colts hired former Stanford OC Pep Hamilton as offensive coordinator.

Per CBS' Bruce Feldman, Hamilton recently interviewed for the head-coaching job at Oregon, left vacant by Chip Kelly's departure for the Eagles. Instead, Hamilton will reunite with Andrew Luck in Indianapolis after coordinating Luck's Stanford offense in 2011. The move is logical after the Colts lost Bruce Arians. Luck will be comfortable in Hamilton's system, which combines a power-running attack in frequent two-tight end sets with an intermediate to downfield passing game. Hamilton is also very familiar with Coby Fleener's strengths.

Source: Jim Trotter on Twitter

Jan 18 - 4:05 PM
From Is Coby Fleener Poised for a Breakout Year?:

Before dislocating his shoulder against Tennessee in Week 8, Fleener was averaging three catches and 32 yards per game. Those numbers extrapolated over a 16-game season would have given him 48 catches and more than 500 yards, which would have been one of the best seasons by a rookie tight end since 2000.

The dramatic drop off after the injury is partially because of Dwayne Allen's emergence, but you have to wonder if the injury bothered Fleener down the stretch.
From Better sleeper option in 2013: Colts TE Coby Fleener or Colts TE Dwayne Allen?:

Allen really lacks the speed of the elite tight ends in the NFL. Running somewhere in the 4.8 40 range, Allen will struggle to get open and even when he is, doesn’t possess the athleticism to make tough catches when the ball is thrown low and lacks the height and leaping ability to go up and get the ball over opposing corners’ heads. His size will lend itself to sneaky touchdowns in the red zone when everybody else is covered, but don’t expect him to be coming down with over-the-shoulder one-handers.

When you take a look at all the great tight ends that have come through the league, they all possess the same certain traits. Antonio Gates (6’4, 260, runs a 4.5) Tony Gonzalez (6’5, 247, runs a 4.49), Rob Gronkowski (6’6, 265, runs a 4.6) and Jimmy Graham (6’7, 265 runs a 4.5). So despite bringing a strong physical presence, Allen has other traits working against him.

...

Also, Allen showed a knack for blocking during his rookie season and often lined up in the slot and at fullback. While that makes him more versatile and more likely to be on the field in certain packages than Fleener, it does make him less of a fantasy threat since he won’t be out catching passes.
To sum it up:

1. Fleener was on an outstanding pace last season before he got hurt.

2. Fleener was used in a manner that did not best fit his strengths last season; all indications are that he will be used differently this year, in a manner that does fit his strengths.

3. The coaching staff change is a likely positive for Fleener, given that he is reunited with his college OC (which is one reason he will be used differently this year).

4. Fleener has the build, athleticism, and speed that is reasonably close to the most successful TEs in recent NFL history (Gonzalez, Gates, Gronk, Graham, Hernandez). Allen doesn't; in fact, Allen is relatively slow.

5. Allen is a much better blocker, which suggests that he will get out on pass routes less frequently than Fleener. This is evidenced by their respective targets last season.

:shrug:
 
A couple more:

I think Allen's workout numbers have created the misconception that he is not athletic and slow.

Watch this reel of some of his catches from last year
Per ESPN, 36 of Allen's 45 receptions (80%) were thrown 10 yards from the LOS or less. Only 1 of 45 receptions (2.2%) were thrown 21+ yards from the LOS. Those ratios were similar for Fleener, but the general perception is that will change for him but will not change for Allen. IMO that seems to cap Allen's upside.
If I pro rate Fleeners targets from last season to 16 games I get 70 targets. Allen had 72 targets to Fleeners 53, pro rated they would be even.

On point 5 Allen as the better blocker will see more snaps and that provides play action and screen opportunities than Fleener.

I see it as 60-80 targets for both TE with some of those looks coming from Wayne who I do not think will be targeted quite as much.
Fleener had 33 targets in the first 6 games last season. He dislocated his shoulder in the 7th game and missed the next 4 games. He had just 17 targets in the 6 games he played after returning from injury.Fleener's target pace in those first 6 games projected to 88 targets over 16 games. I expect he will get 80+ targets this season if he stays healthy.
 
Good post, especially about change in coaching staff.

This did make me laugh tho:

From Is Coby Fleener Poised for a Breakout Year?:


Quote

Before dislocating his shoulder against Tennessee in Week 8, Fleener was averaging three catches and 32 yards per game. Those numbers extrapolated over a 16-game season would have given him 48 catches and more than 500 yards, which would have been one of the best seasons by a rookie tight end since 2000.
Dwayne Allen last year: 45 catches, 521 yards.

 
Blocking is an important NFL skill set that typically leads to more snaps played on offense.

NFL coaches don't trust weaker blockers to play as much, especially in certain situations. They simply don't want to get their QB killed.

More snaps results in more opportunities to touch the ball as well. No, you don't get fantasy points for blocks, but it is important to understand the role that this critical skill plays in determining playing time.

I also want to note that just because a player makes a block, it doesn't preclude them from making a release and then catching the ball. Gronkowski is a perfect example of this, as there are many times where he has made his block, released, and then made a critical reception for Brady.

 
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Snap count by game last season for Fleener and Allen-

Fleener
wk 1 54(82%)
wk 2 50(75%)
wk 3 43(54%)
wk 5 53(55%)
wk 6 35(49%)
wk 7 35(49%)
wk 8 18(24%) Saunders gets 14(18%)
wk 13 23(30%)
wk 14 32(46%)
wk 15 35(57%)
wk 16 28(42%)
wk 17 45(66%)
playoffs 38(42%)

Allen
wk 1 36(55%)
wk 2 47(70%)
wk 3 59(74%)
wk 5 57(59%)
wk 6 35(49%)
wk 7 57(79%)
wk 8 65(86%)
wk 13 56(73%)
wk 14 58(86%)
wk 15 48(79%)
wk 16 53(79%)
wk 17 58(85%)
playoffs 66(73%)

Saunders got 20-30 snaps for the weeks that Fleener was out. Except for the 1st 2 games (familiarity between Fleener/Luck) Allen almost always played a higher percentage of snaps.
 
Reports out of camp are that Fleener came in bulked up a bit iirc. I love what Allen brings to my Colts, however, I've seen what they've worked on in drills. Allen is clearly the blocking TE that is a safety valve. Fleener has been all over the field working at every WR position and appears to me to be a huge part of the offensive game plan this year. It's more than what the beat writers are reporting in the 11-on-11 drills. 7-7, 1-1, and passing tree drills have seen Fleener taking passes almost exclusively from Luck. I believe it is to work on the timing and precision. Allen has worked with Luck, but also Hasselbeck.

I'm not an expert by any means, and I am just reporting what I see, so take it with a grain of salt.

I see Fleener operating between the 20's and a mix of Fleener and Allen in the red zone.

Last year is last year. New OC, new philosophy if you ask me.

I hope Allen is healthy and performs well. I'm a Colts fan and a high stakes fantasy player. Caveat emptor!

 
Reports out of camp are that Fleener came in bulked up a bit iirc. I love what Allen brings to my Colts, however, I've seen what they've worked on in drills. Allen is clearly the blocking TE that is a safety valve. Fleener has been all over the field working at every WR position and appears to me to be a huge part of the offensive game plan this year. It's more than what the beat writers are reporting in the 11-on-11 drills. 7-7, 1-1, and passing tree drills have seen Fleener taking passes almost exclusively from Luck. I believe it is to work on the timing and precision. Allen has worked with Luck, but also Hasselbeck.

I'm not an expert by any means, and I am just reporting what I see, so take it with a grain of salt.

I see Fleener operating between the 20's and a mix of Fleener and Allen in the red zone.

Last year is last year. New OC, new philosophy if you ask me.

I hope Allen is healthy and performs well. I'm a Colts fan and a high stakes fantasy player. Caveat emptor!
good stuff Im a Fleener believer and Arians does not really believe in passing to a TE all that much

 
Good post, especially about change in coaching staff.

This did make me laugh tho:

From

Is Coby Fleener Poised for a Breakout Year?:



Quote

Before dislocating his shoulder against Tennessee in Week 8, Fleener was averaging three catches and 32 yards per game. Those numbers extrapolated over a 16-game season would have given him 48 catches and more than 500 yards, which would have been one of the best seasons by a rookie tight end since 2000.
Dwayne Allen last year: 45 catches, 521 yards.
I take away two things from that.

First, before he got hurt, Fleener was on pace to put up a line very similar to the line Allen posted. So there is no reason to believe Allen is better than Fleener due to the fact that he put up a stronger line for the season.

Second, Fleener was on that pace despite the fact that last year's coaching staff didn't use him in a way that maximized his strengths. This year's coaching staff has repeatedly said they will do so. Given that and the fact that he is healthy, there is every reason to believe he will put up a line this year better than Allen's last year.

 
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First, before he got hurt, Fleener was on pace to put up a line very similar to the line Allen posted. So there is no reason to believe Allen is better than Fleener due to the fact that he put up a stronger line for the season.
I don't agree with that. If two players are gaining stats at an equally impressive rate, the one who does it over a larger sample of games is the better bet to be better, other things equal. (I'm not saying that Allen is a better fantasy prospect than Fleener. I'm just disagreeing with the "So there is no reason to believe" part.)

 
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First, before he got hurt, Fleener was on pace to put up a line very similar to the line Allen posted. So there is no reason to believe Allen is better than Fleener due to the fact that he put up a stronger line for the season.
I don't agree with that. If two players are gaining stats at an equally impressive rate, the one who does it over a larger sample of games is the better bet to be better, other things equal. (I'm not saying that Allen is a better fantasy prospect than Fleener. I'm just disagreeing with the "So there is no reason to believe" part.)
Reasonable minds can disagree. :shrug:

 
i think IND will want to maximize fleener's strengths...

but i would expect the same for allen...

and not just as a blocker...

with a well rounded game, that is A strength of his, but not the only one...

he also has receiving strengths, and IND will probably want to maximize those as well...

possibly fleener does well to get to where allen was last year, and maybe allen improves on his rookie numbers slightly...

not sure it has to be a zero sum game where any incremental gains by fleener in passing game necessarily have to come at the expense of allen?

 
Bob Magaw, I agree. I'm not trying to imply Allen won't be used as a receiver. From what I've seen in training camp, in 2TE sets, Fleener is stretching the field and Allen is chipping and then releasing either to the flat or other routes underneath.

Allen is still a huge weapon and usually a mismatch against a LB. Plus, in 2TE, he is a great 2-way option as a blocker/receiver.

In 3WR sets, I've seen Fleener used more frequently, but Allen is very capable there as well, just running different routes.

Fleener will look like a 6'6" WR at times this season.

 
I'd bet on Allen having more catches, but Fleener having more yards and TDs because of the nature of the way they play.

 
So Indy homers, what are the thoughts between Fleener and Allen going into the season. Fleener has looked bad. Is Allen gonna come back in time?

 
Talk is Allen will be back first week of season and that Fleener appears to have his confidence shaken. If they want to run pep hamiltons power running game like they keep talking about they need Allen back as he is the superior blocker. But then again they have been talking about getting a running game around here since Edge left. :shrug:

 
Talk is Allen will be back first week of season and that Fleener appears to have his confidence shaken. If they want to run pep hamiltons power running game like they keep talking about they need Allen back as he is the superior blocker. But then again they have been talking about getting a running game around here since Edge left. :shrug:
So what are the odds that Allen is the higher targeted TE? Any chance he gets more red zone looks?

 
Based on what little i saw at tc and from what has been talked about around here, they would like Fleener to be the more targeted with Allen the red zone threat. However I think you will see Allen being on the field more as the season goes on and become the more targeted of the two. Fleener has already had a concussion and a knee issue in preseason as well. Fleener had a fumble and a dropped td in game 1 and a dropped first down and a pass that he never even looked back for that hit him in the back on a 2 receiver route in the 2nd game. With Allen out, Fleener has had his chance to shine and has not capitalized on it. That being said the OC is determined to run a 2te system so both will see the field quite a bit. Just one fans opinion :2cents:

 

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