[Dynasty] 2015 Draft Prospects (2 Viewers)

[FreeBaGeL]

The problem is that anything Dyer does this year should be just about 100% ignored. He'll be 24 in October and will be playing guys who are 18-21 -- it's literally men against boys.

Yeah, this is a huge problem. It's like a 2nd year pro playing in college... From an age and physical development standpoint.

He's 5 months older than Andre Ellington was during his senior year so it's not unheard of.

 

[jurb26]

The problem is that anything Dyer does this year should be just about 100% ignored. He'll be 24 in October and will be playing guys who are 18-21 -- it's literally men against boys.

Yeah, this is a huge problem. It's like a 2nd year pro playing in college... From an age and physical development standpoint.

He's 5 months older than Andre Ellington was during his senior year so it's not unheard of.

No, it's not unheard of but it's a red flag that should be raised. He should dominate his competition given the age difference. Is is also one of the most drastic age differences I've seen. Add to it that he will essentially be a 25 year old rookie, if he gets to the NFL, in what is easily the position that is most a young mans position. You could be looking at only a 5 year window for him in the NFL.

 

[EBF]

The problem is that anything Dyer does this year should be just about 100% ignored. He'll be 24 in October and will be playing guys who are 18-21 -- it's literally men against boys.

Yea, but does he really need a strong senior year to prove that he has talent? IMO he already did it in 2010 and 2011.

The problem is that anything Dyer does this year should be just about 100% ignored. He'll be 24 in October and will be playing guys who are 18-21 -- it's literally men against boys.

Yeah, this is a huge problem. It's like a 2nd year pro playing in college... From an age and physical development standpoint.

He's 5 months older than Andre Ellington was during his senior year so it's not unheard of.

No, it's not unheard of but it's a red flag that should be raised. He should dominate his competition given the age difference. Is is also one of the most drastic age differences I've seen. Add to it that he will essentially be a 25 year old rookie, if he gets to the NFL, in what is easily the position that is most a young mans position. You could be looking at only a 5 year window for him in the NFL.

That's a valid point, but it's also offset by the fact that he's cheap as dirt right now. He's going undrafted in ten round devy drafts and IMO that's kind of insane. He's old enough that if he falls into a Christine Michael or Knile Davis situation in the draft then he'll have very few years left to carve out a decent career, but there are a lot of ways it can go. He might be hard to keep off the field if there isn't an elite starter ahead of him on the depth chart and 25 isn't THAT old. People are spending heavily on guys like Charles, Forte, Lynch, Peterson, Gerhart, and Foster who are 2+ years older than he'll be on opening day in 2015. If he has the requisite talent, he's still young enough to shatter his market price with the return he provides.

 

[jurb26]

That's a valid point, but it's also offset by the fact that he's cheap as dirt right now. He's going undrafted in ten round devy drafts and IMO that's kind of insane. He's old enough that if he falls into a Christine Michael or Knile Davis situation in the draft then he'll have very few years left to carve out a decent career, but there are a lot of ways it can go. He might be hard to keep off the field if there isn't an elite starter ahead of him on the depth chart and 25 isn't THAT old. People are spending heavily on guys like Charles, Forte, Lynch, Peterson, Gerhart, and Foster who are 2+ years older than he'll be on opening day in 2015. If he has the requisite talent, he's still young enough to shatter his market price with the return he provides.

Can't argue the cost. He's dirt cheap. If you can roster him without it costing much it's worth a roll of the dice.

 

[Xue]

That's a valid point, but it's also offset by the fact that he's cheap as dirt right now. He's going undrafted in ten round devy drafts and IMO that's kind of insane. He's old enough that if he falls into a Christine Michael or Knile Davis situation in the draft then he'll have very few years left to carve out a decent career, but there are a lot of ways it can go. He might be hard to keep off the field if there isn't an elite starter ahead of him on the depth chart and 25 isn't THAT old. People are spending heavily on guys like Charles, Forte, Lynch, Peterson, Gerhart, and Foster who are 2+ years older than he'll be on opening day in 2015. If he has the requisite talent, he's still young enough to shatter his market price with the return he provides.

Can't argue the cost. He's dirt cheap. If you can roster him without it costing much it's worth a roll of the dice.

Comparing Dyer to guys who are already starters aren't even close at all.

Dyer's best case-scenario is Legarrette Blount, who was a 24-yar old Rookie:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BlouLe00.htm

Christine Michael and Knile Davis were 2nd and 3rd rounders. I realistically see Dyer going day 3 or undrafted.

 

[cheese]

Rotoworld:

Draft Insider Tony Pauline views Bowling Green redshirt junior WR Chris Gallon as a fourth-round prospect prior to the 2014 season.

The is one round worse than Pauline's projection for Gallon prior to last season, pegging him with a third-round grade. The tall (6'4/220 lbs) receiver missed a large portion of last season following a knee injury that was sustained in October.

Source: TFY Draft Insider

What's crazy is how much more effective the offense was after he went down for the count. He did not play well pre-injury, so he's got a lot to prove this year. H/W/S is the only reason he's still on draft boards, his play did not support it.

He held his own against Florida in 2012.

Kent 2012 too.

I'd like to see it again sometime because in the other dozen plus games it hasn't been there.

Heard a rumor he tore his ACL again already. Heard anything?

 

[EBF]

That's a valid point, but it's also offset by the fact that he's cheap as dirt right now. He's going undrafted in ten round devy drafts and IMO that's kind of insane. He's old enough that if he falls into a Christine Michael or Knile Davis situation in the draft then he'll have very few years left to carve out a decent career, but there are a lot of ways it can go. He might be hard to keep off the field if there isn't an elite starter ahead of him on the depth chart and 25 isn't THAT old. People are spending heavily on guys like Charles, Forte, Lynch, Peterson, Gerhart, and Foster who are 2+ years older than he'll be on opening day in 2015. If he has the requisite talent, he's still young enough to shatter his market price with the return he provides.

Can't argue the cost. He's dirt cheap. If you can roster him without it costing much it's worth a roll of the dice.

Comparing Dyer to guys who are already starters aren't even close at all.

Dyer's best case-scenario is Legarrette Blount, who was a 24-yar old Rookie:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BlouLe00.htm

Christine Michael and Knile Davis were 2nd and 3rd rounders. I realistically see Dyer going day 3 or undrafted.

We've been through all of this before. No need to rehash it. Like I said the first time, his talent level is more important than his age. If you believe he might have NFL starter ability, the fact that he'll be a 24-25 year old rookie shouldn't scare you off considering his low price tag. If you think he's just a journeyman or a mediocre prospect then age shouldn't matter much either because you should be avoiding him in FF altogether if that's the case.

The point of pulling out names like Forte and Lynch was to show that a back age 27-28 can still have considerable dynasty value provided that he has the requisite talent. So using the fact that Dyer is over-aged to imply that he's not a good prospect is missing the main question, which relates to his talent level.

 

[Xue]

That's a valid point, but it's also offset by the fact that he's cheap as dirt right now. He's going undrafted in ten round devy drafts and IMO that's kind of insane. He's old enough that if he falls into a Christine Michael or Knile Davis situation in the draft then he'll have very few years left to carve out a decent career, but there are a lot of ways it can go. He might be hard to keep off the field if there isn't an elite starter ahead of him on the depth chart and 25 isn't THAT old. People are spending heavily on guys like Charles, Forte, Lynch, Peterson, Gerhart, and Foster who are 2+ years older than he'll be on opening day in 2015. If he has the requisite talent, he's still young enough to shatter his market price with the return he provides.

Can't argue the cost. He's dirt cheap. If you can roster him without it costing much it's worth a roll of the dice.

Comparing Dyer to guys who are already starters aren't even close at all.

Dyer's best case-scenario is Legarrette Blount, who was a 24-yar old Rookie:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BlouLe00.htm

Christine Michael and Knile Davis were 2nd and 3rd rounders. I realistically see Dyer going day 3 or undrafted.

We've been through all of this before. No need to rehash it. Like I said the first time, his talent level is more important than his age. If you believe he might have NFL starter ability, the fact that he'll be a 24-25 year old rookie shouldn't scare you off considering his low price tag. If you think he's just a journeyman or a mediocre prospect then age shouldn't matter much either because you should be avoiding him in FF altogether if that's the case.

The point of pulling out names like Forte and Lynch was to show that a back age 27-28 can still have considerable dynasty value provided that he has the requisite talent. So using the fact that Dyer is over-aged to imply that he's not a good prospect is missing the main question, which relates to his talent level.

You mean provided he is in the requisite situation. If you want to compare Dyer to any current NFLer, it should be against guys the same age like Bernard Pierce, Mark Ingram, Khiry Robinson, etc.

I do think he has starter talent. I could say that about 5-10 other backups.

 

[EBF]

No need to make this complicated. All I'm saying is that a very talented player who's over-aged doesn't necessarily lose his appeal just because he's over-aged. Of course you would rather have a 22 year old Adrian Peterson than a 29 year old Adrian Peterson, but at the end of the day you'd happily take either Adrian Peterson on your team. Likewise, a 24 year old Dyer has less tread on the tire than a 20 year old Dyer, but that alone isn't a compelling reason for not wanting him. The key variable is his ability. Not his age. So if you're trying to assess him as a player, I don't know why you need to compare him to guys in his age group. It's a secondary concern.

His advanced age might be a good reason to look on his 2014 stats with some skepticism, but as I mentioned he already has two good seasons under his belt at a typical college age (2010-2011). If he blows up this season and people try to paint him as just an over-aged prospect dominating against kids, it's worth pointing out that he has already shown he can do it without the age advantage. Ironically, when I look back on his freshman Auburn clips I see a guy who already had the frame to play on Sundays as a true freshman. He's not a player who needs the age advantage or the additional years to thrive. Quite the opposite. Just a mega talent whose career derailed.

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Draft: Illinois Preview

 

[Faust]

Report: WR Brandon Carter likely done at TCU

 

[Bronx Bomber]

NFLDS now has Sammie Coates as their #2 Jr WR: http://www.nfldraftscout.com//ratings/players.php?genpos=wr&draftyear=2016&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC

"Day 3 guy!"

Oh and they also updated his 40-yard time to 4.36. Just .01 off from what I measured.

I thought draft sites don't matter and only experts like you are qualified to rank players? That sounds like something you would've said before.

Where do you rate Sammie's potential on a scale from Chris Boyd to Jarius Wright? A solid Brian Quick?

Common, us devy guys need both of you here to get debate and the rationale you both provide. Don't ruin this. I've never taken any hostility from either of you just conflicting approaches/view. Just continue to present your cases the best you both can.

As for Coates, in this relatively weaker WR class I can see him going round 2 with his speed, physicality and natural hands (from the limited film/games I've seen)

 

[Bronx Bomber]

EBF is more focused on politics rather than actually discussing the players at hand. Instead he chooses to focus on my posting style. Because he cannot refute my analyses. It's never about "what" I post, instead it's always about "how" I do it.

We want and need people to be able to debate your analyses. Yes the personal attacks should stop (on both sides), but not the debate.

 

[MAC_32]

Rotoworld:

Draft Insider Tony Pauline views Bowling Green redshirt junior WR Chris Gallon as a fourth-round prospect prior to the 2014 season.

The is one round worse than Pauline's projection for Gallon prior to last season, pegging him with a third-round grade. The tall (6'4/220 lbs) receiver missed a large portion of last season following a knee injury that was sustained in October.

Source: TFY Draft Insider

What's crazy is how much more effective the offense was after he went down for the count. He did not play well pre-injury, so he's got a lot to prove this year. H/W/S is the only reason he's still on draft boards, his play did not support it.

He held his own against Florida in 2012.

Kent 2012 too.

I'd like to see it again sometime because in the other dozen plus games it hasn't been there.

Heard a rumor he tore his ACL again already. Heard anything?

Seriously, Clark?!

UGH.

I'll text/email my guys and see what I can find out.

 

[Xue]

Here is my early 2015 WR rankings:

1. Devin Funchess
2. DeVante Parker
3. Amari Cooper
4. Sammie Coates
5. Stefon Diggs
6. Quinshad Davis
7. Jaelen Strong
8. Ty Montgomery
9. Dorial Green-Beckham
10. Deontay Greenberry

 

[jurb26]

Here is my early 2015 WR rankings:

• Devin Funchess
• DeVante Parker
• Amari Cooper
• Sammie Coates
• Stefon Diggs
• Quinshad Davis
• Jaelen Strong
• Ty Montgomery
• Dorial Green-Beckham
• Deontay Greenberry

Funchess at number 1 is pretty unconventional. I'm not seeing that one at all. He doesn't look like a good enough athlete for that position.

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Draft: Indiana Preview 2015 NFL Draft: Pittsburgh Preview

 

[Faust]

Kansas State's Tyler Lockett didn't consider 2014 NFL Draft entry

 

[Faust]

Oklahoma's Stoops: NFL genes make Blake Bell a prototype TE

 

[Faust]

Best offensive 'triplets' in college football

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Coates is faster, taller, and stronger than Cooper, I don't get that ranking, particularly from you Xue. Cooper is nice cause he's pretty safe I guess, but his upside is limited; he's not someone to spend a 1st round rookie pick on imo.

As for Dyer, one thing that isn't being mentioned is his utter lack of any receiving ability. Signs currently point to him never being a 3rd down back; so you gotta rely on him getting 10+ TDs on the ground a year for him to even contend to be an RB1 in fantasy. Then when you add in his age and character concerns, I don't see much reason for the hoopla. I get that he's dirt cheap, but his upside:risk ratio just isn't good enough for him to warrant a roster spot in anything but the very deep devy leagues imo. I'd agree in a 10 rounder he's worth a shot in the later rounds, though he wouldn't be the kind of player I'd personally be targetting.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline believes EMU senior TE Tyreese Russell "looks like a potential move tight end in the NFL."
"Tyreese Russell has his moments on film and looks like a potential move tight end in the NFL. He lacks great size which means forty time will be critical moving towards the 2015 draft and to be honest Russell does not present himself as a vertical threat on film," Pauline wrote. The 6-foot-3, 238 pound Russell started all 12 games for the Eagles last season, leading the team in receiving yards with 594 ,while adding three touchdown receptions. The Eastern Michigan prospect earned All-MAC Second Team honors in 2013, and has been named to the 2014 John Mackey Award Watch List.

Source: TFY Draft Insider

TFY Draft Insider's Tony Pauline believes an "exceptional campaign" will push Arizona redshirt senior WR Austin Hill into the top 45 picks of the 2015 draft.
Hill missed all of last season with a torn ACL. "Scouts eagerly anticipate the return of receiver Austin Hill," Pauline wrote. "They’ve stamped him as a second day draft pick based off his 2012 film, which I think is reasonable despite the fourth round grade I gave him. The health of his knee plus the speed and route running skills he displays this season will be the determining factor." Hill hauled in 81 catches for 1,364 yards and 11 touchdowns to earn All-Pac-12 Second Team honors in 2012.

Source: TFY Draft Insider

TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline writes that some believed he "lost all credibility" when rating Arizona State redshirt junior WR Jaelen Strong as a fourth-rounder.
It's unclear if Pauline is referring to scouts or NFL personnel men, or if he's meaning fans turned on him. Either way, he's far lower on Strong than most. "On film Strong presents himself as an averaged sized receiver with average speed and quickness," Pauline wrote. "And while he makes a few nice receptions what’s most disconcerting is the way he often loses out in battles and does not come away with contested passes." The 6-foot-4, 205-pound prospect grabbed 75 receptions for 1,122 yards and seven touchdowns as a Second Team All-Pac-12 performer last year. "Big frame, easy adjust and looks to have huge mitts on tape," ESPN's Kevin Weidl wrote of Strong last month.

Source: TFY Draft Insider

Draft insider Tony Pauline Ball State notes that senior RB Jahwan Edwards "has late round potential."
"Scouts feel running back Jahwan Edwards has late round potential as he comes with terrific size/speed numbers and surprising quickness for a bigger back. And while I like his skills, Edwards is still a little to inconsistent for me to be graded as seventh round pick at this point," Pauline wrote. The 5-foot-10, 219 pound Edwards set the Cardinals career rushing touchdowns record (39) and the school's career total touchdowns record (39) as a Junior, and rushed for 1,110 yards and ranked 19th in the nation with 14 rushing touchdowns. Look for the Cardinals to take advantage of Edwards rare combination of speed and strength, while relying on him to carry the load for the Cardinals offense. The Cardinals prospect only needs 697 rushing yards to set the Ball State career record.

Source: TFY Draft Insider

Draft insider Tony Pauline believes Akron junior QB Kyle Pohl has "enough arm strength to play at the next level."
"He’s a well sized passer with enough arm strength to play at the next level. Pohl needs to improve his pass placement and cut down on the number of picks he tosses but definitely has late round potential if he continues to progress," Pauline wrote. The 6-foot-3, 213 pound Akron prospect threw for 2,438 yards, with 14 touchdowns and 10 INTs in 2013. After dealing with an ankle injury for most of last season, look for the fully healthy gunslinger to rebound nicely after a year under his belt, as the Zips starting quarterback.

Source: TFY Draft Insider

 

[Xue]

Here is my early 2015 WR rankings:

• Devin Funchess
• DeVante Parker
• Amari Cooper
• Sammie Coates
• Stefon Diggs
• Quinshad Davis
• Jaelen Strong
• Ty Montgomery
• Dorial Green-Beckham
• Deontay Greenberry

Funchess at number 1 is pretty unconventional. I'm not seeing that one at all. He doesn't look like a good enough athlete for that position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUe1HBpL7AM

He's only 20 this season and only scratching the surface of what he's capable of. He's the same size as Mike Evans and moves a lot better. Watch how low he gets in his breaks. Evans and Benjamin play much more upright than Funchess does, and I'm a big Evans fan.

 

[Xue]

Coates is faster, taller, and stronger than Cooper, I don't get that ranking, particularly from you Xue. Cooper is nice cause he's pretty safe I guess, but his upside is limited; he's not someone to spend a 1st round rookie pick on imo.

As for Dyer, one thing that isn't being mentioned is his utter lack of any receiving ability. Signs currently point to him never being a 3rd down back; so you gotta rely on him getting 10+ TDs on the ground a year for him to even contend to be an RB1 in fantasy. Then when you add in his age and character concerns, I don't see much reason for the hoopla. I get that he's dirt cheap, but his upside:risk ratio just isn't good enough for him to warrant a roster spot in anything but the very deep devy leagues imo. I'd agree in a 10 rounder he's worth a shot in the later rounds, though he wouldn't be the kind of player I'd personally be targetting.

They're different types of players, but it's close between these two. Yes Coates has more upside (can you quantify it though?), but I don't think Cooper is that limited. He ran a 4.44 on video. So I know his speed is at least legit. I had him pegged as a high 4.4x to 4.50 before I got a hold of the video. I'm not sure if he will put up a great vertical or broad jump. But his 3-cone and shuttle should be really good. His footwork and short area quickness/explosion are top notch. He's without a doubt the most "pro-ready" WR in this class. Look at these moves in high school.

As far as being "bigger", Cooper is looking bigger himself these days: http://instagram.com/p/puY-XOst_i/

His physique looks a lot like Davante Adams', which is who I compare him to. He's listed at 205, but could be pushing 210-215.

Another thing that might favor Cooper is that he's a year younger than Coates.

Coates is somewhere between Torrey Smith and Sammy Watkins. Cooper is in the mold of Michael Crabtree/Davante Adams/DeAndre Hopkins/Hakeem Nicks. I don't think you can go wrong with either player.

Being faster, taller, and stronger doesn't automatically make you a better prospect, especially if you're not similar and all things aren't equal. I mean Melvin Gordon should be better than Corey Clement right?

 

[Xue]

Rotoworld:

TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline writes that some believed he "lost all credibility" when rating Arizona State redshirt junior WR Jaelen Strong as a fourth-rounder.
It's unclear if Pauline is referring to scouts or NFL personnel men, or if he's meaning fans turned on him. Either way, he's far lower on Strong than most. "On film Strong presents himself as an averaged sized receiver with average speed and quickness," Pauline wrote. "And while he makes a few nice receptions what’s most disconcerting is the way he often loses out in battles and does not come away with contested passes." The 6-foot-4, 205-pound prospect grabbed 75 receptions for 1,122 yards and seven touchdowns as a Second Team All-Pac-12 performer last year. "Big frame, easy adjust and looks to have huge mitts on tape," ESPN's Kevin Weidl wrote of Strong last month.

Source: TFY Draft Insider

Strong doesn't play big. Reminds me of Donte Moncrief in that regard.

 

[EBF]

Rotoworld:

TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline writes that some believed he "lost all credibility" when rating Arizona State redshirt junior WR Jaelen Strong as a fourth-rounder.
It's unclear if Pauline is referring to scouts or NFL personnel men, or if he's meaning fans turned on him. Either way, he's far lower on Strong than most. "On film Strong presents himself as an averaged sized receiver with average speed and quickness," Pauline wrote. "And while he makes a few nice receptions what’s most disconcerting is the way he often loses out in battles and does not come away with contested passes." The 6-foot-4, 205-pound prospect grabbed 75 receptions for 1,122 yards and seven touchdowns as a Second Team All-Pac-12 performer last year. "Big frame, easy adjust and looks to have huge mitts on tape," ESPN's Kevin Weidl wrote of Strong last month.

Source: TFY Draft Insider

Strong doesn't play big. Reminds me of Donte Moncrief in that regard.

He doesn't play big because, unlike Moncrief, he isn't big. If his listed height/weight of 6'4" 212 is accurate then he's very thin. He certainly doesn't look "Strong" on the field and I agree with Pauline that he's overrated. I don't think Ty Montgomery is an elite prospect, but guessing today I'd predict him to be the highest pick of the Pac-12 WRs. He's yoked, will test well, and adds value with his KR ability.

 

[EBF]

As for Dyer, one thing that isn't being mentioned is his utter lack of any receiving ability. Signs currently point to him never being a 3rd down back; so you gotta rely on him getting 10+ TDs on the ground a year for him to even contend to be an RB1 in fantasy. Then when you add in his age and character concerns, I don't see much reason for the hoopla. I get that he's dirt cheap, but his upside:risk ratio just isn't good enough for him to warrant a roster spot in anything but the very deep devy leagues imo. I'd agree in a 10 rounder he's worth a shot in the later rounds, though he wouldn't be the kind of player I'd personally be targetting.

With RBs there's always the question of whether a low reception total is a scheme thing or a talent thing. I think it's probably a little bit of both with Dyer, but just because he didn't catch many passes doesn't mean he can't. Tre Mason only had 8 catches in 2012 under Chizik before tripling that number with the coaching change last year. Auburn had Onterrio McCalebb as a receiving RB in 2010-2011 and while he didn't amount to anything in the NFL, he was very effective in that role in 2011 with 32 catches for 344 yards.

If Dyer makes a couple more plays like this in 2014 then it might put to rest some of the can he/can't he questions about his receiving ability:

http://youtu.be/sNCcB-sAP3g?t=23s

I disagree with your overall characterization of him and believe that, putting his age aside, he has perhaps as much pro upside as any back in college football. Very few other NCAA backs can match his physical skill set. He has an ideal frame for the NFL mixed with solid speed and explosiveness. When I think about my all-class devy rankings, it's tough to find 4-5 backs who I like more right now. One of the most exciting things in scouting prospects is to find a guy who pops off the screen with first round talent. Dyer at Auburn in 2010 was like that. The guy is a horse.

 

[Xue]

Rotoworld:

TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline writes that some believed he "lost all credibility" when rating Arizona State redshirt junior WR Jaelen Strong as a fourth-rounder.
It's unclear if Pauline is referring to scouts or NFL personnel men, or if he's meaning fans turned on him. Either way, he's far lower on Strong than most. "On film Strong presents himself as an averaged sized receiver with average speed and quickness," Pauline wrote. "And while he makes a few nice receptions what’s most disconcerting is the way he often loses out in battles and does not come away with contested passes." The 6-foot-4, 205-pound prospect grabbed 75 receptions for 1,122 yards and seven touchdowns as a Second Team All-Pac-12 performer last year. "Big frame, easy adjust and looks to have huge mitts on tape," ESPN's Kevin Weidl wrote of Strong last month.

Source: TFY Draft Insider

Strong doesn't play big. Reminds me of Donte Moncrief in that regard.

He doesn't play big because, unlike Moncrief, he isn't big. If his listed height/weight of 6'4" 212 is accurate then he's very thin. He certainly doesn't look "Strong" on the field and I agree with Pauline that he's overrated. I don't think Ty Montgomery is an elite prospect, but guessing today I'd predict him to be the highest pick of the Pac-12 WRs. He's yoked, will test well, and adds value with his KR ability.

It's easy to say that when you already know Moncrief's actual weight. But you are one of few who doubted his listed size of 6'3" 220lbs pre-Combine. Moncrief isn't "big". He's just heavy.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in size between Moncrief and Strong. Let's throw in Jordan Matthews, Allen Robinson, and Cody Latimer as well. You put these guys next to each other and the "biggest" guy is probably Cody Latimer. If I told you Latimer was 225-230, you'd probably believe me. If I told you Moncrief was 210, you'd probably believe that too.

He just squatted 405 x 5 the other day, so he's at least weight room strong.

 

[EBF]

Rotoworld:

TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline writes that some believed he "lost all credibility" when rating Arizona State redshirt junior WR Jaelen Strong as a fourth-rounder.
It's unclear if Pauline is referring to scouts or NFL personnel men, or if he's meaning fans turned on him. Either way, he's far lower on Strong than most. "On film Strong presents himself as an averaged sized receiver with average speed and quickness," Pauline wrote. "And while he makes a few nice receptions what’s most disconcerting is the way he often loses out in battles and does not come away with contested passes." The 6-foot-4, 205-pound prospect grabbed 75 receptions for 1,122 yards and seven touchdowns as a Second Team All-Pac-12 performer last year. "Big frame, easy adjust and looks to have huge mitts on tape," ESPN's Kevin Weidl wrote of Strong last month.

Source: TFY Draft Insider

Strong doesn't play big. Reminds me of Donte Moncrief in that regard.

He doesn't play big because, unlike Moncrief, he isn't big. If his listed height/weight of 6'4" 212 is accurate then he's very thin. He certainly doesn't look "Strong" on the field and I agree with Pauline that he's overrated. I don't think Ty Montgomery is an elite prospect, but guessing today I'd predict him to be the highest pick of the Pac-12 WRs. He's yoked, will test well, and adds value with his KR ability.

It's easy to say that when you already know Moncrief's actual weight. But you are one of few who doubted his listed size of 6'3" 220lbs pre-Combine. Moncrief isn't "big". He's just heavy.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in size between Moncrief and Strong. Let's throw in Jordan Matthews, Allen Robinson, and Cody Latimer as well. You put these guys next to each other and the "biggest" guy is probably Cody Latimer.

He just squatted 405 x 5 the other day, so he's at least weight room strong.

I wasn't that far off on Moncrief's size. I guessed his height/weight as 6'1.5"-6'2" 212-218 pounds. He ended up being 6' 2.375" 221. Pretty much the same on the BMI scale as I expected. Just a little bit taller than I initially thought.

I've got Moncrief rated as the #3 WR in the 2014 draft at the moment. He's listed by Ole Miss at 6'3" 226. It can be hard to gauge height/weight based on game clips, but I don't think he's that big. That's Demaryius Thomas size and Moncrief doesn't look that imposing. However, he's still above average in this department. I would say he's between 6'1.5" and 6'2" tall. I'd guess his weight at 212-218. His strength coach claims he can run 4.44 and jump 39" in the vert and 11'1" in the broad jump. That would be good speed and elite leaping ability if true. He was a 25'+ long jumper in high school, so I don't doubt that those figures are in the ballpark.

I noticed pretty early in the season that he did indeed look almost as big as his listed size.

Donte Moncrief looked good on his long TD yesterday. I had questioned whether he was as big as listed, but he actually does look to be about 6'2" 215-220.

It can hard to assess a player's exact height/weight looking at games, but the numbers on the school website usually give you a decent starting point. From there you can make adjustments if you think the numbers seem off.

Strong is a very lean guy whether you trust the numbers on ASU's website or the eyeball test. Coates is another interesting one because, despite looking like a strong guy in some respects, he has a very low BMI if his height/weight on the Auburn site are accurate. He seems to be a bit of a top heavy guy like Robert Turbin or Reggie Bush. I think for football it's more important to be strong through the trunk than it is through the arms/shoulders. That's something to monitor with him this season, though I'd tentatively guess he'll weigh more at the combine than the numbers on Auburn's website.

 

[jurb26]

Here is my early 2015 WR rankings:

• Devin Funchess
• DeVante Parker
• Amari Cooper
• Sammie Coates
• Stefon Diggs
• Quinshad Davis
• Jaelen Strong
• Ty Montgomery
• Dorial Green-Beckham
• Deontay Greenberry

Funchess at number 1 is pretty unconventional. I'm not seeing that one at all. He doesn't look like a good enough athlete for that position.

Not a big fan of that video. He sinks his hips but his head and shoulders have far too much movement. They give away his breaks. Also, he has heavy feet IMO.

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Draft: Iowa Preview

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

CBS Sports' Dane Brugler notes that Maryland junior OW Stefon Diggs reminds him of "former OSU WR Ted Ginn Jr."
"Maryland WR Stefon Diggs reminds me a lot of former OSU WR Ted Ginn Jr....both the good and the bad. Hopefully he stays healthy in 2014," Brugler tweeted. Diggs suffered a fractured fibula back in October. Prior to injury, Diggs was one of the more dynamic offensive weapons in the country. Unfortunately for Diggs, he only played in seven games as a sophomore and had 34 receptions for 587 yards (17.3 yards per catch) and three TDs in seven games for Maryland in 2013.

Source: Dane Brugler on Twitter

 

[Faust]

Arizona WR Austin Hill ready to show off for NFL scouts

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Coates is faster, taller, and stronger than Cooper, I don't get that ranking, particularly from you Xue. Cooper is nice cause he's pretty safe I guess, but his upside is limited; he's not someone to spend a 1st round rookie pick on imo.

As for Dyer, one thing that isn't being mentioned is his utter lack of any receiving ability. Signs currently point to him never being a 3rd down back; so you gotta rely on him getting 10+ TDs on the ground a year for him to even contend to be an RB1 in fantasy. Then when you add in his age and character concerns, I don't see much reason for the hoopla. I get that he's dirt cheap, but his upside:risk ratio just isn't good enough for him to warrant a roster spot in anything but the very deep devy leagues imo. I'd agree in a 10 rounder he's worth a shot in the later rounds, though he wouldn't be the kind of player I'd personally be targetting.

They're different types of players, but it's close between these two. Yes Coates has more upside (can you quantify it though?), but I don't think Cooper is that limited. He ran a 4.44 on video. So I know his speed is at least legit. I had him pegged as a high 4.4x to 4.50 before I got a hold of the video. I'm not sure if he will put up a great vertical or broad jump. But his 3-cone and shuttle should be really good. His footwork and short area quickness/explosion are top notch. He's without a doubt the most "pro-ready" WR in this class. Look at these moves in high school.

As far as being "bigger", Cooper is looking bigger himself these days: http://instagram.com/p/puY-XOst_i/

His physique looks a lot like Davante Adams', which is who I compare him to. He's listed at 205, but could be pushing 210-215.

Another thing that might favor Cooper is that he's a year younger than Coates.

Coates is somewhere between Torrey Smith and Sammy Watkins. Cooper is in the mold of Michael Crabtree/Davante Adams/DeAndre Hopkins/Hakeem Nicks. I don't think you can go wrong with either player.

Being faster, taller, and stronger doesn't automatically make you a better prospect, especially if you're not similar and all things aren't equal. I mean Melvin Gordon should be better than Corey Clement right?

Yeah Cooper's speed looks alright, of my concerns of his that is the smallest one. It's mostly that he's not very tall, he's skinny, and he's exhibited little in the way of YAC besides running in a straight line. He just doesn't have the right combination of physical stature and ability to be a WR1 in the NFL imo. Likely still a fine player, but in 1st rounds of rookie drafts I have higher aspirations than a solid WR2.

As for the bolded; different skill sets for different positions. Not that I think Melvin Gordon is a better power runner than Clement. Or that being taller is necessarily a better attribute to have as a RB, especially when you aren't heavier as well.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

As for Dyer, one thing that isn't being mentioned is his utter lack of any receiving ability. Signs currently point to him never being a 3rd down back; so you gotta rely on him getting 10+ TDs on the ground a year for him to even contend to be an RB1 in fantasy. Then when you add in his age and character concerns, I don't see much reason for the hoopla. I get that he's dirt cheap, but his upside:risk ratio just isn't good enough for him to warrant a roster spot in anything but the very deep devy leagues imo. I'd agree in a 10 rounder he's worth a shot in the later rounds, though he wouldn't be the kind of player I'd personally be targetting.

With RBs there's always the question of whether a low reception total is a scheme thing or a talent thing. I think it's probably a little bit of both with Dyer, but just because he didn't catch many passes doesn't mean he can't. Tre Mason only had 8 catches in 2012 under Chizik before tripling that number with the coaching change last year. Auburn had Onterrio McCalebb as a receiving RB in 2010-2011 and while he didn't amount to anything in the NFL, he was very effective in that role in 2011 with 32 catches for 344 yards.

If Dyer makes a couple more plays like this in 2014 then it might put to rest some of the can he/can't he questions about his receiving ability:

http://youtu.be/sNCcB-sAP3g?t=23s

I disagree with your overall characterization of him and believe that, putting his age aside, he has perhaps as much pro upside as any back in college football. Very few other NCAA backs can match his physical skill set. He has an ideal frame for the NFL mixed with solid speed and explosiveness. When I think about my all-class devy rankings, it's tough to find 4-5 backs who I like more right now. One of the most exciting things in scouting prospects is to find a guy who pops off the screen with first round talent. Dyer at Auburn in 2010 was like that. The guy is a horse.

If he can't beat out Onterrio McCalebb, how is he going to beat out an actual NFL player for 3rd down duties? If he puts up 20+ receptions to a ~9 YPR this year I might be changing my tune, but at this time he has 468 career carries and 5 career receptions on 2 different teams over 3 seasons, that tells a pretty telling tale to me at this stage. And there's plenty of big workhorse sized backs with speed and receiving ability in this class alone; no reason to take a chance on Dyer in anything but the later rounds in a deep devy draft imo.

 

[Xue]

Coates is faster, taller, and stronger than Cooper, I don't get that ranking, particularly from you Xue. Cooper is nice cause he's pretty safe I guess, but his upside is limited; he's not someone to spend a 1st round rookie pick on imo.

As for Dyer, one thing that isn't being mentioned is his utter lack of any receiving ability. Signs currently point to him never being a 3rd down back; so you gotta rely on him getting 10+ TDs on the ground a year for him to even contend to be an RB1 in fantasy. Then when you add in his age and character concerns, I don't see much reason for the hoopla. I get that he's dirt cheap, but his upside:risk ratio just isn't good enough for him to warrant a roster spot in anything but the very deep devy leagues imo. I'd agree in a 10 rounder he's worth a shot in the later rounds, though he wouldn't be the kind of player I'd personally be targetting.

They're different types of players, but it's close between these two. Yes Coates has more upside (can you quantify it though?), but I don't think Cooper is that limited. He ran a 4.44 on video. So I know his speed is at least legit. I had him pegged as a high 4.4x to 4.50 before I got a hold of the video. I'm not sure if he will put up a great vertical or broad jump. But his 3-cone and shuttle should be really good. His footwork and short area quickness/explosion are top notch. He's without a doubt the most "pro-ready" WR in this class. Look at these moves in high school.

As far as being "bigger", Cooper is looking bigger himself these days: http://instagram.com/p/puY-XOst_i/

His physique looks a lot like Davante Adams', which is who I compare him to. He's listed at 205, but could be pushing 210-215.

Another thing that might favor Cooper is that he's a year younger than Coates.

Coates is somewhere between Torrey Smith and Sammy Watkins. Cooper is in the mold of Michael Crabtree/Davante Adams/DeAndre Hopkins/Hakeem Nicks. I don't think you can go wrong with either player.

Being faster, taller, and stronger doesn't automatically make you a better prospect, especially if you're not similar and all things aren't equal. I mean Melvin Gordon should be better than Corey Clement right?

Yeah Cooper's speed looks alright, of my concerns of his that is the smallest one. It's mostly that he's not very tall, he's skinny, and he's exhibited little in the way of YAC besides running in a straight line. He just doesn't have the right combination of physical stature and ability to be a WR1 in the NFL imo. Likely still a fine player, but in 1st rounds of rookie drafts I have higher aspirations than a solid WR2.

As for the bolded; different skill sets for different positions. Not that I think Melvin Gordon is a better power runner than Clement. Or that being taller is necessarily a better attribute to have as a RB, especially when you aren't heavier as well.

I wouldn't call Cooper "skinny" because he isn't any "skinnier" than most other successful WRs.

As I said, Cooper and Coates aren't the same type of players just like Michael Crabtree and Torrey Smith aren't the same type, yet Crabtree and Smith have roughly same Dynasty value (taking into account rankings and ADP).

 

[Paulymaggs]

Here is my early 2015 WR rankings:

• Devin Funchess
• DeVante Parker
• Amari Cooper
• Sammie Coates
• Stefon Diggs
• Quinshad Davis
• Jaelen Strong
• Ty Montgomery
• Dorial Green-Beckham
• Deontay Greenberry

Funchess at number 1 is pretty unconventional. I'm not seeing that one at all. He doesn't look like a good enough athlete for that position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUe1HBpL7AM

He's only 20 this season and only scratching the surface of what he's capable of. He's the same size as Mike Evans and moves a lot better. Watch how low he gets in his breaks. Evans and Benjamin play much more upright than Funchess does, and I'm a big Evans fan.

What do you think Funchess is going to run? 4.6?

 

[Xue]

Here is my early 2015 WR rankings:

• Devin Funchess
• DeVante Parker
• Amari Cooper
• Sammie Coates
• Stefon Diggs
• Quinshad Davis
• Jaelen Strong
• Ty Montgomery
• Dorial Green-Beckham
• Deontay Greenberry

Funchess at number 1 is pretty unconventional. I'm not seeing that one at all. He doesn't look like a good enough athlete for that position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUe1HBpL7AM

He's only 20 this season and only scratching the surface of what he's capable of. He's the same size as Mike Evans and moves a lot better. Watch how low he gets in his breaks. Evans and Benjamin play much more upright than Funchess does, and I'm a big Evans fan.

What do you think Funchess is going to run? 4.6?

My conservative prediction is 4.52-4.55 Official. But it wouldn't surprise me if he hit a 4.49. Evans ran a 4.53 Official and I see Funchess as no worse.

 

[jurb26]

Here is my early 2015 WR rankings:

• Devin Funchess
• DeVante Parker
• Amari Cooper
• Sammie Coates
• Stefon Diggs
• Quinshad Davis
• Jaelen Strong
• Ty Montgomery
• Dorial Green-Beckham
• Deontay Greenberry

Funchess at number 1 is pretty unconventional. I'm not seeing that one at all. He doesn't look like a good enough athlete for that position.

I'll be very surprised if he runs as fast as Evans. I'm guessing he's going to be around 4.58.

 

[tdmills]

Funchess at number one physically I can understand, outside of his hands. They're actually bad, he drops a lot of passes.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Dyer isn't even the starter at Louisville is he?

 

[Xue]

Here is my early 2015 WR rankings:

• Devin Funchess
• DeVante Parker
• Amari Cooper
• Sammie Coates
• Stefon Diggs
• Quinshad Davis
• Jaelen Strong
• Ty Montgomery
• Dorial Green-Beckham
• Deontay Greenberry

Funchess at number 1 is pretty unconventional. I'm not seeing that one at all. He doesn't look like a good enough athlete for that position.

I think even people were surprised by Evans' time.

At any rate, I think the top 4 could be in any order you want. I see that as the consensus come draft time. Everyone I have 5-10 could totally all move down while others move up.

 

[MAC_32]

Am I the only one that is by Diggs?

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Ameer Abdullah - RB - Cornhuskers

Scout Inc.'s Kevin Weidl notes that Nebraska senior RB Ameer Abdullah is a "versatile shake and bake type," who reminds him of RB Andre Ellington.

"Fan of Nebraska RB Abdullah. Versatile shake and bake type. Strong peripheral vision. Presses line of scrimmage to create creases," Weidl tweeted. In another tweet, Weidl added that the Nebraska prospect reminded him of Arizona Cardinal's Andre Ellington. Last season Abdullah rushed for 1,690 yards, which is the highest yardage total since Ahman Green in 1997. The 5-foot-10, 190 pound Abdullah gives the Cornhuskers versatility out of the backfield, as he's dangerous as a runner and as a pass catcher. Abdullah was Nebraskas third-leading receiver with 26 receptions for 232 yards and two touchdowns.

Source: Kevin Weidl on Twitter

Jul 24 - 8:40 AM

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Draft: Maryland Preview

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Auburn senior QB Nick Marshall paid roughly $1,100 in fines, and his marijuana possession case is now considered closed.
The Tigers' quarterback's mother Shalena Cliett paid the fines, with approximately $1,000 going for Marshall's possession of less than one ounce of marijuana and $100 being assesses for illegal window tint. Auburn coach Gus Malzahn still hasn't decided on a punishment, though Marshall was not allowed to go to SEC Media Days or Auburn's ESPY appearances. If the quarterback is suspended, Jeremy Johnson would ascend to No. 1 QB duties.

Source: AL.com

One scouting service gave Ohio State senior QB Braxton Miller a RB only grade, according to NFL.com's Andy Fenelon.
This fascinates use. While Miller is certainly still in the novice stages of his passing progression and has missed a large amount of time with injuries, it is early to be calling for a position switch. Miller had a difficult time choosing to stay or go following last season, but we are excited to see if there has been more development in 2014.

Source: Bryan Fischer on Twitter

Baylor's Bryce Petty and Oregon State's Sean Mannion share the top senior QB grade from one NFL scouting service, according to NFL.com's Andy Fenelon.
The senior quarterback class is not strong this season, but we would place Utah State's Chuckie Keeton in the top spot. Petty's biggest issue is pressure. He frequently looks great against defenses that are overwhelmed by Baylor's offensive prowess and many times is fortunate to see receivers running open. Mannion might be even worse against pressure and is less mobile. We doubt either one are first-round picks.

Source: Bryan Fischer on Twitter

Incoming Rutgers offensive coordinator Ralph Friedgen said he worked this spring to clean up a mechanical issue in senior QB Gary Nova' throwing motion.
"I’ve made one correction with his mechanics," Friedgen said. "He threw the ball on his toes, which puts a lot of pressure on your arm and can lead to arm problems. I was always taught, especially when I was in the NFL, to put your heel in the ground and push off like you’re a pitcher and then get your waist and hips right. It seems to have helped him." This is an important fix, as the former Maryland boss figures to throw more than his predecessors. "My philosophy is to have a balance between run and pass," Friedgen said. "If you’re only one dimensional then they’re going to make you play left-handed and I don’t like to play left-handed. I like to take what the defense gives us."

Source: ScarletKnights.com

 

[Xue]

Am I the only one that is by Diggs?

He's a combination of Marqise Lee and Robert Woods.

 

[Xue]

Quinshad Davis listed at 215 this season compared to 205 last season.

Here he is on the right. Looks quite bulky in the upper body. That 215 sounds legit.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtgQ_ByCQAI68Tb.jpg

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Am I the only one that is by Diggs?

He's a combination of Marqise Lee and Robert Woods.

Agreed, although I think he blows up the combine unlike Lee.

But the important part is that athletically he compares more to Lee, and technically (hands-wise) he compares to Woods.

Could be a potent combination.

 

[tdmills]

Am I the only one that is by Diggs?

He's a combination of Marqise Lee and Robert Woods.

Agreed, although I think he blows up the combine unlike Lee.

/quote]

Lee beat Watkins in every drill but 40 time.