[Dynasty] 2015 Draft Prospects (1 Viewer)

[The Man With No Name]

2015 NFL COMBINE: VALUE OF ATHLETICISM

METRICS AND HOW WE SHOULD USE THEM

http://optimumscouting.com/draft/2015-nfl-combine-value-athleticism-metrics-use.html

 

[tdmills]

2015 NFL Draft: Matt Miller's Pre-Combine Big Board

That's crazy...Gordon at RB4 with Yeldon 1 spot behind him.

Kevin White is dropping like a rock next week when he measures in at 6'1 instead of 6'3

Too short to be elite, eh?

Haven't you heard? Odell Beckham just remeasured in at 6'4. He decided to stand all the way up this time. That explains his prolific season.

I see, this is about my debate about Sammy Watkins not being elite.

To review:

I said that to be an elite(top 5) WR in FF a player needed(in almost all cases) to be either:

1) a dynamic athlete(Julio Jones/Calvin Johnson type)

2) tall, 6'2" or taller(AJ Green)

3) have an elite QB throwing him the football(Peyton to Sanders for example)

Rookie WRs that finished better than Watkins' 198 FF points in PPR leagues:

Kelvin Benjamin 225.8 (tall), 18 more targets than Watkins

ODJ 297 (dynamic athlete), 4 more targets than Watkins

Mike Evans 245.1 (tall), 4 less targets than Watkins

Jordan Matthews 202.2 (tall), 23 less targets than Watkins

Now I don't think Benjamin or Matthews have elite potential, just helps with a measuring stick to Watkins.

Are people going to debate that Sammy Watkins still has top 5 potential?

 

[tdmills]

2015 NFL Draft: Matt Miller's Pre-Combine Big Board

That's crazy...Gordon at RB4 with Yeldon 1 spot behind him.

Kevin White is dropping like a rock next week when he measures in at 6'1 instead of 6'3

Too short to be elite, eh?

Excuse me?

White should drop because he's not that good. The perception that he'll measure shorter than listed stems from the fact that he doesn't really outleap defenders often nor does he have a big catch radius.

I agree that I don't think he's as good as the current hype. But I also don't think he'll measure in at 6'3", which would drop his value as well.

 

[jdswan922]

2015 NFL Draft: Matt Miller's Pre-Combine Big Board

That's crazy...Gordon at RB4 with Yeldon 1 spot behind him.

Kevin White is dropping like a rock next week when he measures in at 6'1 instead of 6'3

Too short to be elite, eh?

Haven't you heard? Odell Beckham just remeasured in at 6'4. He decided to stand all the way up this time. That explains his prolific season.

I see, this is about my debate about Sammy Watkins not being elite.

To review:

I said that to be an elite(top 5) WR in FF a player needed(in almost all cases) to be either:

1) a dynamic athlete(Julio Jones/Calvin Johnson type)

2) tall, 6'2" or taller(AJ Green)

3) have an elite QB throwing him the football(Peyton to Sanders for example)

Rookie WRs that finished better than Watkins' 198 FF points in PPR leagues:

Kelvin Benjamin 225.8 (tall), 18 more targets than Watkins

ODJ 297 (dynamic athlete), 4 more targets than Watkins

Mike Evans 245.1 (tall), 4 less targets than Watkins

Jordan Matthews 202.2 (tall), 23 less targets than Watkins

Now I don't think Benjamin or Matthews have elite potential, just helps with a measuring stick to Watkins.

Are people going to debate that Sammy Watkins still has top 5 potential?

If you are confident in your premise, then you make all the arguments that he has top 5 potential for me.

 

[tdmills]

2015 NFL Draft: Matt Miller's Pre-Combine Big Board

That's crazy...Gordon at RB4 with Yeldon 1 spot behind him.

Kevin White is dropping like a rock next week when he measures in at 6'1 instead of 6'3

Too short to be elite, eh?

Haven't you heard? Odell Beckham just remeasured in at 6'4. He decided to stand all the way up this time. That explains his prolific season.

I see, this is about my debate about Sammy Watkins not being elite.

To review:

I said that to be an elite(top 5) WR in FF a player needed(in almost all cases) to be either:

1) a dynamic athlete(Julio Jones/Calvin Johnson type)

2) tall, 6'2" or taller(AJ Green)

3) have an elite QB throwing him the football(Peyton to Sanders for example)

Rookie WRs that finished better than Watkins' 198 FF points in PPR leagues:

Kelvin Benjamin 225.8 (tall), 18 more targets than Watkins

ODJ 297 (dynamic athlete), 4 more targets than Watkins

Mike Evans 245.1 (tall), 4 less targets than Watkins

Jordan Matthews 202.2 (tall), 23 less targets than Watkins

Now I don't think Benjamin or Matthews have elite potential, just helps with a measuring stick to Watkins.

Are people going to debate that Sammy Watkins still has top 5 potential?

If you are confident in your premise, then you make all the arguments that he has top 5 potential for me.

Sammy Watkins doesn't fit any of the three criteria for me.

 

[msommer]

2015 NFL Draft: Matt Miller's Pre-Combine Big Board

That's crazy...Gordon at RB4 with Yeldon 1 spot behind him.

Kevin White is dropping like a rock next week when he measures in at 6'1 instead of 6'3

Too short to be elite, eh?

Excuse me?

I was referencing the Sammy Watkins debate last year.

 

[Xue]

2015 NFL Draft: Matt Miller's Pre-Combine Big Board

That's crazy...Gordon at RB4 with Yeldon 1 spot behind him.

Kevin White is dropping like a rock next week when he measures in at 6'1 instead of 6'3

Too short to be elite, eh?

Excuse me?

White should drop because he's not that good. The perception that he'll measure shorter than listed stems from the fact that he doesn't really outleap defenders often nor does he have a big catch radius.

I agree that I don't think he's as good as the current hype. But I also don't think he'll measure in at 6'3", which would drop his value as well.

Even though I'm not a White fan, I don't think his height is much of detriment. It's the fact that he isn't that dynamic without the ball as he is with it, unike Odell Beckham and Watkins.

Watkins ran some really good routes as a Rookie. Just don't see that kind of movement skills from White to be as good.

 

[EBF]

I just re-watched the 3 games I watched last night: LSU, Nebraska, and Ohio State. Overall, I'll stand by what I said. He does shed contact here and there, but it's not a big part of his game. The Nebraska game was the best game of his career and even that only had a handful of plays with significant yards after contact: the stiff-arm along the sideline in the first half, the busted LB tackle near the end of the game, the sideline hurdle (if you want to count that), and maybe 1-2 more that I'm forgetting. He did most of his damage running around the edge. Not a lot of impressive runs up the middle or good cuts at the second level. Only one big "make-you-miss" play against Nebraska that I can remember.

I'm really curious to see how he fares in the NFL. He's a unique type of back. People compare him to Charles, but a closer look reveals that they're very different. Gordon is a lot bigger, but also not nearly as fast. I counted three plays where he was run down from behind (1 vs. LSU and 2 vs. Nebraska). His acceleration is good, but he does not have the top speed of a real sprinter like Spiller, Charles, or CJ2K. At the same time, he is not especially slippery and/or powerful in traffic. Yes, you will get a juke or a broken tackle here and there, but neither trait is elite. It's kind of hard to pin down exactly what he is. He's not a power back like Stewart or MJD. He's not a juker like Abdullah or McCoy. I'd be tempted to say he's a speed back, but he's not really THAT fast compared with the league's best. You would never see Charles or Spiller run down from behind like Gordon was at times.

None of this guarantees his failure and he could always test better at the combine than expected (220+ pounds and 4.3X in the 40 could be in play, though I would estimate a lower weight and a slower 40 time). Still, I'd be more comfortable with him if he more clearly fit into one of the molds of what's currently working in the NFL.

Finished the rest of Gordon's games tonight. Thought the Minnesota, Illinois, and USF games were a lot more flattering than those first three. He has become a more well-rounded player over the years and appears to have bulked up a bit. There isn't any one single thing that stands out about him. He is not the most powerful, not the most elusive, and not the fastest. However, he is a good all-around back. His east-west cutting is actually decent, but mainly he just wants to get north-south and uncoil that long stride. The vertical running for the first 10-20 yards is the best aspect of his game. He is just okay running through traffic up the middle and has average or slightly below average power. I would like him more if he were more clearly defined as either a speed or power back, but even as a bit of a 'tweener I think he's worthy of a pick in the 20-40 range. I don't see him being the total package that you'd want in a top 10 back ala Ricky, LT, Peterson, or *gulp* T-Rich.

Tough to think of a good comparison. Some similarities with a young Ahman Green. Another tall strider. Gordon is likely not as heavy or fast. I'm gonna tentatively predict a weight ~212-217 pounds and a 40 time of 4.45. A 4.5X would be disappointing, but not totally surprising, as he's often caught from behind on longer runs. I do not think a 4.3 is in play. He doesn't have that kind of game speed at least. Quick out of the blocks though.

 

[bucksoh]

Gordon reminds me of Eric Dickerson they run a lot alike.

 

[Biabreakable]

Brandon Thorn’s 2015 NFL Draft “BIG BOARD” – Feb. 3

• QB Jameis Winston – FSU – 6-4/227 – Rare pocket presence, short-term memory, multi-level accuracy, and on-field leadership.
• *Edge – Randy Gregory – Nebraska – 6-6/245 – Extremely athletic, explosive, and long. Uses all three very efficiently and only a 2-year D1 player. Tons of room to grow technique and body wise.
• QB Marcus Mariota – Oregon – 6-4/215 – Very accurate both in the pocket and on the run, great long speed, and very mature. Lack of NFL type throws is a legitimate question.
• *WR DeVante Parker – Louisville – 6-3/209 – Superbly long (88-inch wingspan) with best long speed of the top 3 WRs. Silky in his movements, fearlessness over the middle, and will make his living in the intermediate game.
• *WR Amari Cooper – Alabama – 6-1/202 – Supremely productive in pro system, dominant on the ground receiver and best route runner in the class. Plays snap to whistle and explodes out of cuts.
• *WR Kevin White – West Virginia – 6-3/210 – Most physically imposing plus possesses the best ball skills in the class. Only 2-years of D1 football with a lot of room to grow. Long speed/40 will be huge.
• RB Melvin Gordon – Wisconsin – 6-1/207 – Rare acceleration and absolutely chiseled head to toe. Underrated power and excellent balance/coordination. System back label will follow.
• RB Todd Gurley – Georgia – 6-1/232 – Coming off torn-ACL but has a Marshawn Lynch skill-set only with more speed. How bad does he want it?
• Dorial Green-Beckam – Missouri – 6-6/225 – Freakish size/athleticism with ability to track and high point. Lateral game is a question mark. Can be sink his hips and explode out of breaks is biggest on field question. Disturbing off the field issues.
• *RB Ameer Abdullah – Nebraska – 5082/198 – Tremendous overall quickness, soft hands, dangerous KR, and very decisive in the hole. Possesses a special jump cut and uses his low center of gravity to elude defenders and generate underrated power. Limited long speed.
• WR Jaelen Strong – Arizona State – 6-4/205 – Former JUCO player with physically imposing size and game. Very aggressive attacking the ball but a raw route runner.
• TE Maxx Williams – Minnesota – 6-4/254 – Big-time catch radius, very fluid mover, and an underrated blocker. Best all-around TE in the draft and the most versatile.
• RB Tevin Coleman – Indiana – 6-1/210 – Tough inside runner who was incredibly productive despite lack of elite talent around him. Wins with vision, burst, and balance. Need to do more film study before final opinion.
• T.J. Yeldon – Alabama – 6-2/218 – Incredibly strong base with equally quick feet for such a big body. Extremely decisive in the hole and stays north south. Sudden in his movements and lots of tread on his tires. Only exceeded 200 carries once in his career.
• RB Duke Johnson – Miami – 5-9/206 – Aside from tendency to shy from contact has areas he wins with consistently. Gets in and out his cuts extremely quickly and has impressive wiggle. Highly productive but has injury concerns.
• WR Devin Funchess – Michigan – 6-5/230 – Huge body, catch radius, and athleticism. Not very proven or productive and is a converted tight end. Needs work in his routes but has special “can’t teach qualities.”
• WR Sammie Coates – Auburn – 6016/213 – Physically think Terrell Owens in terms of body type and athleticism but extremely raw in his route running and overall understanding of the position. How bad does he want it?
• WR Rashad Greene – FSU – 6-0/178 – Does everything well with two excellent qualities: hands and routes. Very smooth, polished player who wont outclass many players in the NFL athletically.
• RB Jay Ajayi – Boise State – 6-0/215 – True north/south runner with very good hands and balance. Has good power but looks stiff in his lateral movements.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

One NFL scout said he believes Miami (FL) RB Duke Johnson will be "no more than a third-down back" in the NFL due to his size limitations.

Johnson is 5-foot-9, 206 -- on the small side but not too small to operate as a featured NFL runner. Frank Gore was 5-foot-9, 210 coming out of college and his running style is similar to Johnson's as a slippery back with deceptive lateral agility and outstanding pass-game chops. It's still possible some teams will see Johnson as a Giovani Bernard type in the pros.

Source: Miami Herald

Feb 15 - 2:23 PM

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Phillip Dorsett - WR - Hurricanes

One NFC scout believes Miami's Phillip Dorsett "will be a good No. 2 WR."

This was during a conversation with the Miami Herald's Barry Jackson. In fact, the scout believes Dorsett "could start as a slot guy now." That is extremely high praise, especially for a receiver who works best when using his vertical speed to get downfield. We do not think Dorsett consistently won in other areas of the field, but he did showcase more underneath skills at Senior Bowl practices. Dorsett will run one of the fastest 40s in Indy.

Source: Miami Herald on Twitter

Feb 16 - 10:17 AM

 

[Faust]

Position by Position Rankings:

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/52237/325/position-by-position-rankings

 

[Zyphros]

Rotoworld:

One NFL scout said he believes Miami (FL) RB Duke Johnson will be "no more than a third-down back" in the NFL due to his size limitations.

Johnson is 5-foot-9, 206 -- on the small side but not too small to operate as a featured NFL runner. Frank Gore was 5-foot-9, 210 coming out of college and his running style is similar to Johnson's as a slippery back with deceptive lateral agility and outstanding pass-game chops. It's still possible some teams will see Johnson as a Giovani Bernard type in the pros.

Source: Miami Herald

Feb 15 - 2:23 PM

I got a Ka'Deem Carey feel when I watched Duke play. Obviously it looks like Duke has more speed so I expect a better 40, but I agree he isn't much more than a 3rd down back.

 

[mcintyre1]

Rotoworld:

One NFL scout said he believes Miami (FL) RB Duke Johnson will be "no more than a third-down back" in the NFL due to his size limitations.

Johnson is 5-foot-9, 206 -- on the small side but not too small to operate as a featured NFL runner. Frank Gore was 5-foot-9, 210 coming out of college and his running style is similar to Johnson's as a slippery back with deceptive lateral agility and outstanding pass-game chops. It's still possible some teams will see Johnson as a Giovani Bernard type in the pros.

Source: Miami Herald

Feb 15 - 2:23 PM

I'm no big Duke fan, but that's ludicrous. He's plenty big enough to be a feature back if the rest of his skillset lines up.

 

[Faust]

Oregon State's Sean Mannion: 'I'm a great fit for the NFL game'

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000470634/article/oregon-states-sean-mannion-im-a-great-fit-for-the-nfl-game

 

[EBF]

This guy seems to like every player. Very few negative comments.

Brandon Thorn’s 2015 NFL Draft “BIG BOARD” – Feb. 3

• RB Todd Gurley – Georgia – 6-1/232 – Coming off torn-ACL but has a Marshawn Lynch skill-set only with more speed. How bad does he want it?

I have seen this comparison made elsewhere and I don't agree with it. Everyone knows Lynch is a powerful and determined runner, but his trademark quality at Cal might have been his violent east-west cuts. You can see a great example of it on this screen pass against UCLA:

http://youtu.be/owcX0MBt8DM?t=45s

The guy was (and still is) a very loose runner who could effortlessly change directions. Much more of an ankle-breaker than Gurley. That's part of where his power comes from. He gets people off balance and then they lose their base from which to tackle him. I would not say Gurley is a stiff runner, but I've never seen him run with that jerky Lynch style. He's more inclined to get north-south and rumble with his speed. Very fast for a big dude, but not an elite "run on a swivel" make-you-miss type of guy.

 

[Biabreakable]

This guy seems to like every player. Very few negative comments.

Brandon Thorn’s 2015 NFL Draft “BIG BOARD” – Feb. 3

• RB Todd Gurley – Georgia – 6-1/232 – Coming off torn-ACL but has a Marshawn Lynch skill-set only with more speed. How bad does he want it?

I have seen this comparison made elsewhere and I don't agree with it. Everyone knows Lynch is a powerful and determined runner, but his trademark quality at Cal might have been his violent east-west cuts. You can see a great example of it on this screen pass against UCLA:

http://youtu.be/owcX0MBt8DM?t=45s

The guy was (and still is) a very loose runner who could effortlessly change directions. Much more of an ankle-breaker than Gurley. That's part of where his power comes from. He gets people off balance and then they lose their base from which to tackle him. I would not say Gurley is a stiff runner, but I've never seen him run with that jerky Lynch style. He's more inclined to get north-south and rumble with his speed. Very fast for a big dude, but not an elite "run on a swivel" make-you-miss type of guy.

Who would you compare Gurley to in the NFL past or present?

 

[EBF]

This guy seems to like every player. Very few negative comments.

Brandon Thorn’s 2015 NFL Draft “BIG BOARD” – Feb. 3

• RB Todd Gurley – Georgia – 6-1/232 – Coming off torn-ACL but has a Marshawn Lynch skill-set only with more speed. How bad does he want it?

I have seen this comparison made elsewhere and I don't agree with it. Everyone knows Lynch is a powerful and determined runner, but his trademark quality at Cal might have been his violent east-west cuts. You can see a great example of it on this screen pass against UCLA:

http://youtu.be/owcX0MBt8DM?t=45s

The guy was (and still is) a very loose runner who could effortlessly change directions. Much more of an ankle-breaker than Gurley. That's part of where his power comes from. He gets people off balance and then they lose their base from which to tackle him. I would not say Gurley is a stiff runner, but I've never seen him run with that jerky Lynch style. He's more inclined to get north-south and rumble with his speed. Very fast for a big dude, but not an elite "run on a swivel" make-you-miss type of guy.

Who would you compare Gurley to in the NFL past or present?

Every player is different. It's really rare when I see someone and think he's a perfect parallel with someone else.

As far as Gurley goes, I think he has a rare size/speed combo. Not many backs that big have a top speed like him. He's a galloper. Like a runaway train when he gets going. He's taller than average. A bit upright. Some flexibility and agility, especially behind the line of scrimmage, but not an overall elusive back. Prone to violent collisions. Despite his size, his game is as much about getting into space and exploiting his speed as it is about bulldozing people though. He's a good receiver too.

Closest NFL comparison I can think of off the top of my head is Eddie Lacy. Gurley would test a lot better than Lacy if he were able to perform at the combine and has better tangible athleticism, but overall the players have quite a few similarities as versatile big backs. Gurley is faster. Lacy might have better elusiveness.

 

[tdmills]

This guy seems to like every player. Very few negative comments.

Brandon Thorns 2015 NFL Draft BIG BOARD Feb. 3

• RB Todd Gurley Georgia 6-1/232 Coming off torn-ACL but has a Marshawn Lynch skill-set only with more speed. How bad does he want it?

I have seen this comparison made elsewhere and I don't agree with it. Everyone knows Lynch is a powerful and determined runner, but his trademark quality at Cal might have been his violent east-west cuts. You can see a great example of it on this screen pass against UCLA:

http://youtu.be/owcX0MBt8DM?t=45s

The guy was (and still is) a very loose runner who could effortlessly change directions. Much more of an ankle-breaker than Gurley. That's part of where his power comes from. He gets people off balance and then they lose their base from which to tackle him. I would not say Gurley is a stiff runner, but I've never seen him run with that jerky Lynch style. He's more inclined to get north-south and rumble with his speed. Very fast for a big dude, but not an elite "run on a swivel" make-you-miss type of guy.

Who would you compare Gurley to in the NFL past or present?

Larry Johnson

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Eric Dickerson IMO.

 

[Biabreakable]

I appreciate the comps guys. I have read some compare him to Adrian Peterson. Which of course makes me wonder while I draw the breaks.

Just watched his game against South Carolina who I think played pretty good defense against him. He still breaks several runs in this game. One time reversing the field and still being able to get the first down. He has some good speed and power for sure. I wonder somewhat about his vision and elusiveness.

The running style he somewhat reminds me of is Duece McCallister. Although I don't think he is as good as a receiver. Or at least I haven't seen that from him in the games of his I've watched.

 

[EBF]

I appreciate the comps guys. I have read some compare him to Adrian Peterson. Which of course makes me wonder while I draw the breaks.

Just watched his game against South Carolina who I think played pretty good defense against him. He still breaks several runs in this game. One time reversing the field and still being able to get the first down. He has some good speed and power for sure. I wonder somewhat about his vision and elusiveness.

The running style he somewhat reminds me of is Duece McCallister. Although I don't think he is as good as a receiver. Or at least I haven't seen that from him in the games of his I've watched.

Much more like Deuce than Peterson IMO. Peterson isn't as big, but his feet are crazy active. Almost impossible to get a good clean hit on him because he's always cutting and dancing around. I think that's part of why he has a reputation as a powerful runner even though his build is slanted more towards speed back territory in terms of weight-per-height. Gurley is more of a tank. Doesn't have anywhere near ADP's feet/quickness/cutting.

Deuce is an interesting shout though. Both guys are taller and thicker than the average back, yet have real speed to boot. Deuce, like Gurley, returned kicks in college and was a very good receiver for a big man. He also had a lot of durability issues in his career, which is a similarity that Gurley owners will be hoping to avoid.

 

[Faust]

Updated:

Top five 2015 NFL Draft prospects by position

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000459787/article/top-five-2015-nfl-draft-prospects-by-position

 

[Faust]

Mayock: 3 wide receivers are top-20 prospects in this draft

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000470689/article/mayock-3-wide-receivers-are-top20-prospects-in-this-draft

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Scouting Combine players to watch: Offense

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000470692/article/2015-nfl-scouting-combine-players-to-watch-offense

 

[Biabreakable]

Well Peterson is known as powerful because of plays like this and this . I miss watching him play. Best combination of everything you could want in a RB despite some weakness in pass protection.

 

[EBF]

Well Peterson is known as powerful because of plays like this and this . I miss watching him play. Best combination of everything you could want in a RB despite some weakness in pass protection.

The victim on the first play is just a DB. The second play is more a display of elusiveness than power.

Peterson was only 217 pounds at 6'1.5" at the combine. It's a low weight for a RB that tall. However, functional power is not just about being the shortest and heaviest guy on the block. It's also about the ability to minimize hits with cuts and elusiveness. That's what I mentioned earlier with Lynch. Yea, he is a pretty big and strong runner, but that's only part of why he's able to bust tackles. The other part is that his bouncy/juking running style gets defenders on their heels, so when they try to tackle him they're grabbing and reaching instead of planting and driving. Basically, if you can get the defender off balance then he's an easy mark because he's acting from a position of weakness. It's something that a lot of the great backs do very well.

Connecting that back with the 2015 discussion, Gurley is probably bigger and heavier than both Lynch and Peterson. He's a load to bring down once he gets moving. He's not as good as either player at making those little cuts and moves to evade defenders though.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Well Peterson is known as powerful because of plays like

I have not necessarily made the Lynch and Gurley comparison, but you know what they both do? Their legs defy gravity for about a quarter second when defenders tackle their ankles. It's as if they accelerate out of weak tackles with even more power than before the moment. There's not really a word for it but it's a staple characteristic of power backs. I hope someone else knows what I'm seeing.

 

[Biabreakable]

Just going to have to disagree with your premise that Adrian Peterson isn't a powerful runner. Just a defensive back? He ran that guy over and knocked him out with that run. The second one is an example of Peterson's excellent timing and vision to set defenders up while simultaniously avoiding other tackles. He gave that stiff arm with the right leverage but make no mistake about how strong he is. Peterson always finishes runs hard and is not at all afraid of contact because he can win that way too.

There is one run in that clip against South Carolina at the 8:20 mark where Gurley breaks multiple tackles. It is a very impressive run. But I have seen Peterson do similar things lots of times before.

 

[EBF]

Just going to have to disagree with your premise that Adrian Peterson isn't a powerful runner.

Never said that. He breaks lots of tackles.

What I'm saying is that it's based as much on his elusiveness as sheer size/strength. Many NFL runners have him beaten in those categories, but not many are as successful as him at evading, breaking weak tackles, and getting second chance yards.

 

[EBF]

I have not necessarily made the Lynch and Gurley comparison, but you know what they both do? Their legs defy gravity for about a quarter second when defenders tackle their ankles. It's as if they accelerate out of weak tackles with even more power than before the moment. There's not really a word for it but it's a staple characteristic of power backs. I hope someone else knows what I'm seeing.

Maybe just balance? Runners with a wide base and strong lower body can be very difficult to knock off their feet. They just sort of bounce off the tackle.

I know he has been a colossal bust in the NFL, but I loved this play from Trent Richardson when he was at Bama:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhB6wRYZNWA

 

[mcintyre1]

Well Peterson is known as powerful because of plays like this and this . I miss watching him play. Best combination of everything you could want in a RB despite some weakness in pass protection.

The victim on the first play is just a DB. The second play is more a display of elusiveness than power.

Peterson was only 217 pounds at 6'1.5" at the combine. It's a low weight for a RB that tall. However, functional power is not just about being the shortest and heaviest guy on the block. It's also about the ability to minimize hits with cuts and elusiveness. That's what I mentioned earlier with Lynch. Yea, he is a pretty big and strong runner, but that's only part of why he's able to bust tackles. The other part is that his bouncy/juking running style gets defenders on their heels, so when they try to tackle him they're grabbing and reaching instead of planting and driving. Basically, if you can get the defender off balance then he's an easy mark because he's acting from a position of weakness. It's something that a lot of the great backs do very well.

Connecting that back with the 2015 discussion, Gurley is probably bigger and heavier than both Lynch and Peterson. He's a load to bring down once he gets moving. He's not as good as either player at making those little cuts and moves to evade defenders though.

The biggest reason I love Abdullah. He's the best I've seen at this in a long, long time.

 

[miqws]

PFF Jeff Radcliffe's pre-combine top 50 fantasy rookies:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/02/12/pre-combine-top-50-rookies/

 

[Faust]

Mayock: RGIII trade impacts 2015 NFL Draft's top quarterbacks

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000470752/article/mayock-rgiii-trade-impacts-2015-nfl-drafts-top-quarterbacks

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Matt Jones - RB - Gators

CBS Sports' Dane Brugler notes that it's easy to overlook Florida junior RB Matt Jones in this RB class, but "there is talent there."

"Florida RB Matt Jones is easy to overlook in this RB class but there is talent there. Showing positive traits on his film," Brugler tweeted. The 6-foot-2, 226-pound Jones has ideal size and is down-hill runner, who will be seen as a chain mover at the next level. The Florida prospect could add value in the NFL, as a part of a running-back-by-committee.

Source: Dane Brugler on Twitter

Feb 16 - 3:26 PM

 

[Faust]

NFLDraftScout.com's Top 64 Draft Prospects: Williams, Winston two best

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/25070958/nfldraftscoutcoms-top-64-draft-prospects-williams-winston-two-best

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Combine: Five Bold Predictions

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/25070852/nfl-combine-five-bold-predictions

 

[jdswan922]

2015 NFL Draft: Matt Miller's Pre-Combine Big Board

That's crazy...Gordon at RB4 with Yeldon 1 spot behind him.

Kevin White is dropping like a rock next week when he measures in at 6'1 instead of 6'3

Too short to be elite, eh?

Haven't you heard? Odell Beckham just remeasured in at 6'4. He decided to stand all the way up this time. That explains his prolific season.

I see, this is about my debate about Sammy Watkins not being elite.

To review:

I said that to be an elite(top 5) WR in FF a player needed(in almost all cases) to be either:

1) a dynamic athlete(Julio Jones/Calvin Johnson type)

2) tall, 6'2" or taller(AJ Green)

3) have an elite QB throwing him the football(Peyton to Sanders for example)

Rookie WRs that finished better than Watkins' 198 FF points in PPR leagues:

Kelvin Benjamin 225.8 (tall), 18 more targets than Watkins

ODJ 297 (dynamic athlete), 4 more targets than Watkins

Mike Evans 245.1 (tall), 4 less targets than Watkins

Jordan Matthews 202.2 (tall), 23 less targets than Watkins

Now I don't think Benjamin or Matthews have elite potential, just helps with a measuring stick to Watkins.

Are people going to debate that Sammy Watkins still has top 5 potential?

If you are confident in your premise, then you make all the arguments that he has top 5 potential for me.

Sammy Watkins doesn't fit any of the three criteria for me.

Well then you need to fix your criteria to indicate that it is based solely on YOUR subjective opinions and remove potential from the debate. Then I will concede you win. And actually remove the word debate too.

 

[tdmills]

2015 NFL Draft: Matt Miller's Pre-Combine Big Board

That's crazy...Gordon at RB4 with Yeldon 1 spot behind him.

Kevin White is dropping like a rock next week when he measures in at 6'1 instead of 6'3

Too short to be elite, eh?

Haven't you heard? Odell Beckham just remeasured in at 6'4. He decided to stand all the way up this time. That explains his prolific season.

I see, this is about my debate about Sammy Watkins not being elite.

To review:

I said that to be an elite(top 5) WR in FF a player needed(in almost all cases) to be either:

1) a dynamic athlete(Julio Jones/Calvin Johnson type)

2) tall, 6'2" or taller(AJ Green)

3) have an elite QB throwing him the football(Peyton to Sanders for example)

Rookie WRs that finished better than Watkins' 198 FF points in PPR leagues:

Kelvin Benjamin 225.8 (tall), 18 more targets than Watkins

ODJ 297 (dynamic athlete), 4 more targets than Watkins

Mike Evans 245.1 (tall), 4 less targets than Watkins

Jordan Matthews 202.2 (tall), 23 less targets than Watkins

Now I don't think Benjamin or Matthews have elite potential, just helps with a measuring stick to Watkins.

Are people going to debate that Sammy Watkins still has top 5 potential?

If you are confident in your premise, then you make all the arguments that he has top 5 potential for me.

Sammy Watkins doesn't fit any of the three criteria for me.

Well then you need to fix your criteria to indicate that it is based solely on YOUR subjective opinions and remove potential from the debate. Then I will concede you win. And actually remove the word debate too.

I don't believe my opinion is judging his size/qb/or athletic ability to be a transcendent talent.

Which of the three criteria do you believe he hits?

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Mock Draft: Green-Beckham and Steve Smith with Ravens?

2015 NFL Mock Draft: Titans stick with Mettenberger, draft Gregory

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Combine- Monday

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Nebraska RB Ameer Abdullah's ball security remains the biggest question surrounding his draft stock, says NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock.

In a conference call with the media, the analyst mentioned the 24 fumbles on Abdullah's ledger, 17 of which were lost to turnover. Abdullah's running skill and character are lavishly praised, while his fumbling and pass blocking remain big question marks. NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah projects Abdullah as a late-second round or early third-round pick.

Source: NFL.com
Feb 17 - 1:11 AM

 

[Faust]

Jameis Winston, Bryce Petty working with Jim Harbaugh

 

[Faust]

NFL combine stories to watch: Mariota vs. Winston, breakout stars, more

 

[Faust]

These smaller-school players have the most to prove at 2015 NFL combine

 

[Faust]

Five front-runners to post the 2015 NFL combine's fastest 40-yard dash

 

[mcintyre1]

Rotoworld:

Nebraska RB Ameer Abdullah's ball security remains the biggest question surrounding his draft stock, says NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock.

In a conference call with the media, the analyst mentioned the 24 fumbles on Abdullah's ledger, 17 of which were lost to turnover. Abdullah's running skill and character are lavishly praised, while his fumbling and pass blocking remain big question marks. NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah projects Abdullah as a late-second round or early third-round pick.

Source: NFL.com
Feb 17 - 1:11 AM

Fumbling can be a concern for Abdullah given his running style and that he doesn't go down quickly. However, his numbers did improve as he got older and added more strength.

Per CBSSports:

2011-12 - 13 games - 42 carries - 6 fumbles - 3 lost

2012-13 - 14 games - 225 carries - 8 fumbles - 6 lost

2013-14 - 13 games - 281 carries - 5 fumbles - 5 lost

2014-15 - 13 games - 264 carries - 4 fumbles - 2 lost

Gurley never had much trouble with fumbles, but he played a little more than half as many games as well. You also might expect that given that he's roughly as big as most of the guys tackling him.

Gordon actually has the more concerning trend:

2012-13 - 14 games - 62 carries - 1 fumble - 0 lost

2013-14 - 13 games - 206 carries - 4 fumbles - 1 lost

2014-15 - 14 games - 343 carries - 7 fumbles - 6 lost

Either way, by his Senior year Abdullah wasn't fumbling at a rate any worse than Gordon, who I haven't heard explicit concerns about in regard to that.

Abdullah definitely has work to do in terms of blocking technique, but given what I know about the coaching staff he's been under his whole career, no one was teaching him how to do that well. Bo Pelini's staff was incompetent outside of a select few, and he didn't allow dissent among his staff in terms of opinion. He's also got a great physical base to start from, as he topped out at a squat of 580 lbs and a bench press of 365 lbs before this season. That's pretty impressive for a guy who's 5'8 and 195 lbs. I can't find any reliable number on Gurley (who I'm sure is a physical beast), but by comparison Melvin Gordon topped out at 510 lbs and has almost 20 lbs on Abdullah.

 

[Faust]

2015 NFL Combine- Tuesday

 

[Faust]

T-Minus 77 Days: The Reality of a Combine Snub