This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
I've got Boldin No. 11 among WRs. Where do you want him? Considering he hasn't been as reliable as the Tier 1 receivers over the past couple of season, I think the top of Tier 2 is right where he should be. Also, let's not call Boldin the red-zone guy when Larry Fitzgerald has caught more TDs than Boldin every single year Fitz has been in the league.
Thanks, rockalum.It would be easy to put Matt Schaub in Tier 2 because I really like him, but to do so would be ignoring two things:1. There have been major doubts about his status as Franchise QB, with many in Houston preferring Sage Rosenfels. He was awfully close to being pulled early in the season.2. Schaub is killing creampuff defenses right now, which is awesome. But let's see what he does against the brutal sked he has during the fantasy football playoffs. If he performs then, he's a no-doubter as a Franchise QB and easily a Tier 2 guy.
My recollection is that throughout the years you've always been slightly down on Boldin compared to where I would have expected him to be in your rankings. I've probably made earlier posts in this thread to that effect. If I remember correctly, the debate 1-2 years ago was Harrison vs. Boldin dynasty value and you were arguing the Harrison side. Boldin's health has been an issue, but he's second among active NFL players in career receiving yards per game directly behind Torry Holt and ahead of Randy Moss. The guy is a flat out stud, but consistently gets ranked below players like Steve Smith and Andre Johnson despite the fact that their production has been more erratic.I've got Boldin No. 11 among WRs. Where do you want him? Considering he hasn't been as reliable as the Tier 1 receivers over the past couple of season, I think the top of Tier 2 is right where he should be. Also, let's not call Boldin the red-zone guy when Larry Fitzgerald has caught more TDs than Boldin every single year Fitz has been in the league.F&L has always been a little bit of a Boldin hater IMO. :(
Guilty on Harrison.Re: Smith & Johnson, I would definitely much rather have them than Boldin. I consider them more reliable, less injury prone (possibly due to Boldin's hard-charging style), and at least in Smith's case, a more explosive playmaker who gets in the end zone more often. And, yes, I realize you could could call Smith and Johnson as injury-prone as Boldin. I just believe both are more reliable going forward.My recollection is that throughout the years you've always been slightly down on Boldin compared to where I would have expected him to be in your rankings. I've probably made earlier posts in this thread to that effect. If I remember correctly, the debate 1-2 years ago was Harrison vs. Boldin dynasty value and you were arguing the Harrison side. Boldin's health has been an issue, but he's second among active NFL players in career receiving yards per game directly behind Torry Holt and ahead of Randy Moss. The guy is a flat out stud, but consistently gets ranked below players like Steve Smith and Andre Johnson despite the fact that their production has been more erratic.I've got Boldin No. 11 among WRs. Where do you want him? Considering he hasn't been as reliable as the Tier 1 receivers over the past couple of season, I think the top of Tier 2 is right where he should be. Also, let's not call Boldin the red-zone guy when Larry Fitzgerald has caught more TDs than Boldin every single year Fitz has been in the league.
I think people say this because he the #2 on his team. He would make a great #1 WR on more than half of NFL teams.
That's part of it. But there have also been times over the past couple of season where I've owned Boldin and didn't consider him a reliable weekly starter. He doesn't make me feel all warm & fuzzy, which is what I want out of a WR1. I want to throw him in the starting lineup every single week (like I do with Fitzgerald), and then save my worrying for the WR2 or WR3 options.
He's made me feel all warm and fuzzy ever since i got him at the beginning of last season
I wouldnt want him as my #1 WR in FF, and would definately prefer SS and AJ. I just think he gets a bad rap as an NFl WR because he is his teams #2 WR. Which probably also has something to do with why i wouldnt want him as my #1 FF WR.
To each his own. I know that there have been times even when he's been healthy where I have hesitated to play him. For example, last year's stretch from Week 9 thru Week 14 and especially the 2006 stretch from Week 6 all the way thru the end of the season (with Week 12 standing out as an outlier).He's made me feel all warm and fuzzy ever since i got him at the beginning of last season
I would agree. I've owned Boldin for 4 years now and there have been plenty of times that I've sat him due to an extended drought. You just shouldn't have to do that with a #1.To each his own. I know that there have been times even when he's been healthy where I have hesitated to play him. For example, last year's stretch from Week 9 thru Week 14 and especially the 2006 stretch from Week 6 all the way thru the end of the season (with Week 12 standing out as an outlier).He's made me feel all warm and fuzzy ever since i got him at the beginning of last season
Steve Smith missed 2 games too.
right. and boldin has had his bye, smith hasn't, so smith has played 1 more game, yet boldin is still ahead of him - significantly in one of my leagues.
We're not talking redraft value.
Boldin got injured in the Week 13 game last year, which is why his stats were bad that game and he didn't even play in week 14 due to that injury. Boldin scored 17 and 13 points in Weeks 11 and 12 of last year respectively in PPR scoring, which are decent numbers really. In weeks 9 and 10 of last year Boldin put up poor numbers. Is that really that horrible?Reggie Wayne has been held to under 30 yards and a TD both of the last 2 weeks. Does that mean he is to be no longer considered a WR #1?To each his own. I know that there have been times even when he's been healthy where I have hesitated to play him. For example, last year's stretch from Week 9 thru Week 14 and especially the 2006 stretch from Week 6 all the way thru the end of the season (with Week 12 standing out as an outlier).He's made me feel all warm and fuzzy ever since i got him at the beginning of last season
Yes, he he plays WR.Boldin got injured in the Week 13 game last year, which is why his stats were bad that game and he didn't even play in week 14 due to that injury. Boldin scored 17 and 13 points in Weeks 11 and 12 of last year respectively in PPR scoring, which are decent numbers really. In weeks 9 and 10 of last year Boldin put up poor numbers. Is that really that horrible?Reggie Wayne has been held to under 30 yards and a TD both of the last 2 weeks. Does that mean he is to be no longer considered a RB #1?To each his own. I know that there have been times even when he's been healthy where I have hesitated to play him. For example, last year's stretch from Week 9 thru Week 14 and especially the 2006 stretch from Week 6 all the way thru the end of the season (with Week 12 standing out as an outlier).He's made me feel all warm and fuzzy ever since i got him at the beginning of last season
Boldin has never had to go through the majority of the season with Chris Weinke, a 44-year-old Vinny Testaverde, David Carr, or Matt Moore. No WR in the league is going to produce with those QBs. None. We're talking QBs who shouldn't even be in the league. Other than QB issues, Smith needs no excuses. When he's in the lineup with a legit NFL QB, he's a lock to produce WR1 numbers.Boldin has gone through lengthy stretches where he doesn't produce even with a decent QB . . . even when Fitz is producing with the same QB. That's enough to leave him as a borderline WR1 option to me.I agree that Boldin is a better player than Colston and Edwards, but is he a better dynasty investment? I like Colston's stability in NO, but it's awfully close. I could easily be convinced that Boldin has more value Edwards and was probably going to make that change this week.
You can fudge the numbers all you want, but Boldin has failed to produce like a WR1 for significant stretches of two of the last three seasons. If that's fine with you, then cool. It's just not what I want out of a WR1.And not producing like a WR1 for over half a season (as was the case with Boldin in 2006) can't be reasonably compared to Wayne having two down weeks.Boldin got injured in the Week 13 game last year, which is why his stats were bad that game and he didn't even play in week 14 due to that injury. Boldin scored 17 and 13 points in Weeks 11 and 12 of last year respectively in PPR scoring, which are decent numbers really. In weeks 9 and 10 of last year Boldin put up poor numbers. Is that really that horrible?Reggie Wayne has been held to under 30 yards and a TD both of the last 2 weeks. Does that mean he is to be no longer considered a RB #1?To each his own. I know that there have been times even when he's been healthy where I have hesitated to play him. For example, last year's stretch from Week 9 thru Week 14 and especially the 2006 stretch from Week 6 all the way thru the end of the season (with Week 12 standing out as an outlier).He's made me feel all warm and fuzzy ever since i got him at the beginning of last season
Since you used QB issues as a viable excuse for Steve Smith last year, does it not seem reasonable that the same can be said with Boldin catching passes from Leinart in 2006?You can fudge the numbers all you want, but Boldin has failed to produce like a WR1 for significant stretches of two of the last three seasons. If that's fine with you, then cool. It's just not what I want out of a WR1.And not producing like a WR1 for over half a season (as was the case with Boldin in 2006) can't be reasonably compared to Wayne having two down weeks.Boldin got injured in the Week 13 game last year, which is why his stats were bad that game and he didn't even play in week 14 due to that injury. Boldin scored 17 and 13 points in Weeks 11 and 12 of last year respectively in PPR scoring, which are decent numbers really. In weeks 9 and 10 of last year Boldin put up poor numbers. Is that really that horrible?Reggie Wayne has been held to under 30 yards and a TD both of the last 2 weeks. Does that mean he is to be no longer considered a RB #1?To each his own. I know that there have been times even when he's been healthy where I have hesitated to play him. For example, last year's stretch from Week 9 thru Week 14 and especially the 2006 stretch from Week 6 all the way thru the end of the season (with Week 12 standing out as an outlier).He's made me feel all warm and fuzzy ever since i got him at the beginning of last season
Leinart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Matt Moore>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>44-year-old Vinny Testaverde >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chris WeinkeWhy did Fitz produce with Leinart?
I'm generally on the same page with you on Boldin, but there are countless examples of bad quarterbacks supporting one receiver. It's supporting two that takes a guy like Warner.
In games in which Leinart played the whole time Boldin actually averaged more yards per game than Fitz by 2 yards. Fitz got TDs in 0.43 games in said games, Anquan Boldin got TDs in 0.3 games. Not a big difference really. Having said that, i consider Fitz significantly better than Boldin, S. Smith, or AJ.
Didn't Boldin have higher YPG than Fitz under Leinart?
I'm confused. If Fitz and Boldin produced just fine with Leinart, why are we saying Boldin catching passes from Leinart would be a problem?Fitz had a hamstring injury from Week 6-9 that season. From the time he returned in Week 10 thru the end of the season, he had at least 75 yards or a TD in every game but one. That's WR1 production.In those same weeks, Boldin had at least 75 yards or a TD in 3 out of 8 games. Even while Fitz was out in Weeks 7 & 8, Boldin couldn't break 75 yards or a TD. So in 3 out of the last 10 games of the season, Boldin failed to record 75 yards or a TD. In my mind that's problematic from a WR1, and it's certainly a big difference between Fitz & Boldin on a weekly basis for a long stretch of the season.
See post below yours. Regardless of YPG, for that stretch of games under Leinart in 2006, Fitz was much more consistently valuable on a week-to-week basis than Boldin was.
i wouldnt consider 70 yards and a TD every 2-3 games fine. Which is essentially what both Boldin/Fitz did under Leinart. I'm not trying to argue that Boldin is better than Fitzgerald because he isn't. I'm just saying that Fitzgerald's numbers went down under Leinart too, not just Boldin's. Which is why i think if your giving Steve Smith a viable excuse for being inconsistent last year ude to poor QB play, it is more than reasonable to use the same excuse for why Boldin was inconsistent in '06.
You're Fear & Loathing - you don't get to be Warm & Fuzzy.
(couldn't resist)
He's a guy that I'll be looking to get cheap in dynasty and redraft leagues this offseason. At this point he's not even startable, but I don't see any reason why he can't bounce back next year. He's playing with a fairly serious injury and the Bengals are a complete train wreck right now.
That's decent value. I tried moving him even before the shoulder injury and couldn't find a taker simply because of his antics. I agree that he can't be washed up already, so you may as well buy low if you can or hang onto him if you have him. On a side note, I think we should be giving him some bit of props for playing through this injury and not giving up with the absolute mess in Cincinnati. Maybe he really has learned something. Or maybe not, but it's nice to see him take his lunchpail to work unlike Plax who can't even get his head on straight for the 6-1 world champions.
stevegamer said:You're Fear & Loathing - you don't get to be Warm & Fuzzy.Fear & Loathing said:(couldn't resist)
Normally I'd agree with you, but I do see a reason why he won't bounce back next year. Historically, when the Bengals enter tailspin mode and the whole franchise sours on owner/GM Mike Brown, they stay in the vortex for much longer than one year. Will his value go back up a bit? I think so. Will he ever be a Top-10 WR in Cincinnati again? I'd be shocked.EBF said:
The jury is still out, but I do feel we have seen enough from both to know that they both have NFL talent.The question for Stewart? Williams. Eventually Stewart will be a very good NFL starter, but it could be a while.McFadden? Injuries and a bad team. For a guy whose build was questionable to begin with, I don't think you can be at ease with his season. Guy has been constantly nicked up and now has a boot on the other fooot. I don't think he can be effective outside of RBBC. STewart can. So I like Stewart better because I don't think we have seen anything to question his ability to be a full time featured back. McFadden, on the other hand, has had the opportunity to take over a starting spot and hasn't been able to stay healthy. Now if we had a typical featured back build that wouldn't be so much of a concern, but...
I think he is the real deal but I would worry about the long term QB situation there. Bulger has struggled to stay healthy and is getting old. How will Avery do if they have a rookie playing next year or the year after?
I'd say it would be hard for his situation to improve. If he signs a big money deal to go elsewhere (I would love to see him in a Bears uniform), he'll be the number one threat and draw constant double teams.He really is in a great spot- the threats of Fitzgerald and now Breaston provide him tons of opportunities to get open and no one throws more than Arizona. I think his prospects go down pretty much anywhere else he could sign....
I think the status of Bulger has been greatly exaggerated... There is zero chance a rookie starts for them next year when Bulger has the ability he does and the huge contract he does. The O-line improvement will remind everyone why he was paid that huge contract.
No. Many WR's have proven they can go well beyond 30. CJ has a new QB throwing to him and Holt is suffering from a bad offensive line and new offensive schemes/coaches.
I understand that every situation is different. I fully expect CJ to rebound. Holt, not sure. But with every veteran player there's a point where they are no longer tradeable for replacement value. I just wonder if we should consider 4 or 5 years of production enough with some guys and get out while the gettin's good, so to speak. I'm really talking about Smith more than Wayne, actually. Steve just throws himself around so much and is smaller than most, so he might age faster. Just throwing it out there. Holt owners probably wish they would have thought about moving him a few months ago. Once there's a ***** in the armor, these guys become tough to move.
All depends on situation, but i might look to see what i could get for Wayne or Smithbetwen now and next season. Obviously if you are making a run for the playoffs this year, then you keep them, and maybe to look to see what they will bring in the offseason. However, trading them now might bring you more value as playoff teams woyuld pay top dollar for them.
I'm looking to buy Steve Smith, not sell him. I don't think you take what happened to Chad Johnson and Torry Holt and apply it across the board. Do we take what happened to Mark Clayton, and apply it across the board for young, breakout WRs? Chad Johnson is in a unique situation with the Bengals and may be further suffering because of the chaos that he helped to create. He's also without his starting QB and in offense that can't move the ball. Torry Holt's knee has been getting worse for the past couple of years, and he's also in an offense that has trouble moving the ball with a quarterback who is still suffering the bad habits he picked up last season behind a gruesome offensive line.I've never seen Reggie Wayne as even a borderline Top-10 talent at WR, so he's a different story for me. I think his value depends on whether you think the Colts offense can get back to their old heights.
I think you make some good points. It's hard for me to believe that Boldin would have better production in another offense.
If I could find somebody who was enamored of him, I'd sell in a package deal for an upgrade. I think he's a legit talent, but will he be more of a deep threat than a go-to WR? Too soon to tell.
F&L has always been a little bit of a Boldin hater IMO. 
F&L has always been a little bit of a Boldin hater IMO. 