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Honestly not as bad as I thought it might be. His game isn't built on speed so 4.51 is decent for him, but the SS and 3 cone were terrible.FWIW, Golden Tate has a similarly disappointing combine - 4.42, 7.12, 4.34, 35" vertical.
Agreed on the #2 WR projection, I just wonder if he's going to be a slot guy too. If we're looking for #2 NFL WRs...i'd rather have DeAndre Hopkins than Robert Woods.
Never said you have to be 6'3 or run a 4.3 to play on the outside, but you better be able to beat press coverage. As a total package, I have concerns of Woods being successful enough in the NFL to be a factor in FF.
Plenty of WRs who did poorly in the 3 cone drill went on to be good NFL WRs recently, Roddy White (7.12), Miles Austin (7.09), Dez Bryant (7.10), Sidney Rice (7.09), Justin Blackmon (7.13); and there's a similar list for those who did poor on the SS drill, Dez Bryant (4.46), Kenny Britt (4.47), Marques Colston (4.44). I'm not convinced doing poorly on either of those drills means much at all.
I don't think it's healthy to jump to many conclusions based on the underwear olympics. However, when I have concerns about a player and it's backed up by a poor combine, it's a red flag. I'll be shocked if Robert Woods is anything better than a WR3 in FF.
I think it safe to safe he doesn't have a very high ceiling, but I also think he's going to make it in the NFL as a #2. For fantasy purposes he's not that exciting but as a late 2nd or 3rd round rookie pick it's safe choice.
Every last one of these guys is physical beast that can manhandle dbs when the ball is thrown their way. That isn't woods' game.
I've had Wilson stashed in a dynasty league for a year. I agree, I thought he looked good today. I was concerned he would be rusty having sat out for a while and not being part of a team. Athletically he was about where I thought he would be. Better yet, he was in shape. In the positional drills I thought he looked like one of the most fluid guys there. Woods was another that stood out IMO. I think Wilson should go in the 3rd round or so in the draft.
How many of those players were only 6-0, 200 and poorly in both?
Justin Blackmon's combine numbers are pretty similar to Woods' across the board
But really, there's only a handful of players that come close to resembling Woods' height/weight/SS/3C numbers, so probably not the best way to make any conclusions.
When looked at in a individually, probably not. Taller WRs won't be successful in 3 cone or SS, it's difficult for them to get low to the ground and change direction. I think these tests are more important for shorter WRs because they need to be more precise route runners to gain separation. I use 3 cone and SS when my eyes tell me something is wrong with a player succeeding at the next level.'ZWK said:
wont even rank Knile Davis? just curious as to your thinking there
Maybe, but Im pretty sure he was getting drafted and people knew he was a good athelete.
He ran fast in the underwear olympics, but I had concerns about his game way back in 2010 and they continued over the years. 1) Injuries: Broke his left ankle his senior year of HS, reinjured it his freshman season(but rehabbed it enough to get some carries), Junior year broken left ankle. He's also broken two collarbones. 2) Production: Knile Davis had an excellent 2010, but the rest of his college career is underwhelming. He looked pretty bad in 2012 and got benched for Dennis Johnson(a non-invite to the combine). 3) Game: Davis is big and fast. His lateral agility is poor, he has to stop his feet to make people miss. When he does this, it takes too long to get going again and pursuit tackles him. He has a bad fumbling problem and I didn't see great vision.
Just broke down 4 more games(outside of my original for this piece) and my concerns of Woods being manhandled are only getting bigger. He's a finesse WR that got shut down on lots of routes by college CB's, when he faces NFL CBs I have even great concerns. He doesn't make many defenders miss either. He has good hands though and is pretty smooth.
What NFL caliber CBs shut down Woods? He was playing injured last year and should we totally blow off 2011 where he produced 1300 yds and 15 tds? Pretend as if it never happened? USC /Barkley/ said himself they went away from Woods too much in 2012 and tried to force it to Lee more than they should have. USC became one-dimensional in the passing game. I know you (AC) are in love with Keenan Allen and has it in for Woods (from our league), but I believe you have blinders on when it comes to both these players.
When NCAA CBs take him into the sidelines because he can't fight them off, you think it's easier when he gets to the NFL? When NCAA players regularly tackle Woods in one on one matchups, is he going to all of a sudden break lots of tackles when he gets to the NFL?My analysis goes deeper than one dynasty league. I'm in many leagues and don't let it cloud my judgement. I could still draft Woods/Allen/Bernard/etc, why would my rankings be skewed due to one league?Woods has some major flaws to this game, i'm not the only person that's recognized this.'JohnnyU said:
You could say the same thing about Allen. Like I said, you can't just ignore Woods' 2011 season as if it never happened.
Ok then, I'll take those issues if he can produce 1300 yds and 15 tds.Woods had the same issues in 2011.Allen isn't perfect, nobody said he was
Now after the combine I completely agree with this, will be interesting to see if any PRO Days drastically change these rankings
The comparisons aren't meant to mean this is the player they will become. Allen won't match Fitz career, not at all. I just see similar body types and game. Colston isn't a bad one either, however I think Allen is more explosive and has more wiggle.
College stats don't mean everything.Ok then, I'll take those issues if he can produce 1300 yds and 15 tds.Woods had the same issues in 2011.Allen isn't perfect, nobody said he was
Sure they do. It shows what he can do in a competitive environment. I'd much rather have a "football player" than a physical specimen and even a workout freak.College stats don't mean everything.Ok then, I'll take those issues if he can produce 1300 yds and 15 tds.Woods had the same issues in 2011.Allen isn't perfect, nobody said he was
So Timmy Chang was your boy? Terrance Williams is the best WR in this draft?I watch a handful of games before I jump to conclusions like Woods can get pushed around regularly, even his 2011 season.Sure they do. It shows what he can do in a competitive environment. I'd much rather have a "football player" than a physical specimen and even a workout freak.College stats don't mean everything.Ok then, I'll take those issues if he can produce 1300 yds and 15 tds.Woods had the same issues in 2011.Allen isn't perfect, nobody said he was
We could go back and forth on this all night. IMO the games they have played do matter more than the combine and BMI. If you don't think Woods will be a productive pro and more importantly a viable fantasy WR, that's your business, but to close your eyes on him is foolish. You worry too much about height and weight.So Timmy Chang was your boy? Terrance Williams is the best WR in this draft?I watch a handful of games before I jump to conclusions like Woods can get pushed around regularly, even his 2011 season.Sure they do. It shows what he can do in a competitive environment. I'd much rather have a "football player" than a physical specimen and even a workout freak.College stats don't mean everything.Ok then, I'll take those issues if he can produce 1300 yds and 15 tds.Woods had the same issues in 2011.Allen isn't perfect, nobody said he was
You're putting words in my mouth and I wish this could've been more productive. My original post had concerns from the games they played(what you value most). Then the combine backed up my concerns and I just watched 4 more games on Woods. That's three different times i've focused on Woods and came away with "this guy won't be elite at the next level." Can he be an NFL WR2, yes. I also didn't mention anything about BMI, that's an EBF thing.We could go back and forth on this all night. IMO the games they have played do matter more than the combine and BMI. If you don't think Woods will be a productive pro and more importantly a viable fantasy WR, that's your business, but to close your eyes on him is foolish. You worry too much about height and weight.So Timmy Chang was your boy? Terrance Williams is the best WR in this draft?I watch a handful of games before I jump to conclusions like Woods can get pushed around regularly, even his 2011 season.Sure they do. It shows what he can do in a competitive environment. I'd much rather have a "football player" than a physical specimen and even a workout freak.College stats don't mean everything.Ok then, I'll take those issues if he can produce 1300 yds and 15 tds.Woods had the same issues in 2011.Allen isn't perfect, nobody said he was
I can see moving him down. If it's the end of first round of a rookie draft, I'd rather gamble on a guy with big time potential like Wilson or lattimore or your Marcus Davis. Wilson has 4 inches on Woods and has the same speed. I think they do have similar good route running though. Wilson also makes the spectacular catches. I will probably end up moving him down.ETA: I referenced Davis because he's the guy you like due to sheer big time potential, just for comparison sake. I don't view him as a late first or even a second round pick.
I've bumped Wilson up after the combine. He looked very strong catching the ball and in all the drills. His athleticism is right where I expected it from watching his game footage. I have no idea how you could justify bumping him down from the combine. He was at an all time low prior to it due to the WSU incident.
He did well in the receiving drills. He's got good hands and instincts. He's also tall. Those are his main assets. In terms of the other stuff, there are plenty of holes. He's extremely thin. About the same as DeSean Jackson in terms of body mass. Jackson compensates for his lack of size and strength with elite speed. Wilson ran a 4.51. That's not a bad time in a vacuum, but it's not a good time for such a thin WR. He didn't jump all that well either. 34.5" in the vert is average or slightly below average. 10'2" in the broad jump is not terrible, but it's not particularly good either for a guy who's 6'2"+. He's just an average athlete in terms of speed and burst. Below average when you compare him to the likely high pick WRs like Patterson, Rogers, Wheaton, Woods, Hunter, and Austin. I don't doubt Wilson's football skills and I think he's fast enough to be effective. He's not really an explosive athlete though. The biggest question is how he'll cope with the physicality of NFL corners. He's tall and stringy. Out of last year's top 20 FF WRs, none of them had a BMI below 26. Wilson's is 24.6. Will he get bullied? Will he be able to take a hit? I think those are the biggest question. If you want to look at skinny guys who have thrived at the position, he's a bit like Sidney Rice or a lesser AJ Green. I think he has a chance to be successful, but he certainly didn't hit it out of the park at the combine. He might have done well in the positional drills, but that's only half the equation. From a tape measure standpoint he was underwhelming. Guys like Rogers, Patterson, and Boyce clearly outshined him there. I'd put Wilson in the same category as Hopkins and Woods. Good football player. Not a special athletic specimen. Ideally, you'd want a prospect who's both.
Sidney Rice is the comp I've been using for Wilson. One thing Wilson did that impressed me was his 6.65 3 cone, very good for a guy his size.The downsides with him is the character issue and his weight. Since he's so skinny I don't expect him to have much impact right away. He only did 7 reps so he'll need to get a lot stronger to be effective. He's a guy you have to plan on tying up a roster spot with no payoff for a couple of years, but in the long-term I think he could be worth it. Not a 1st round rookie pick but in the 2nd I think he's worth the risk.
... You can't teach a guy to want to play football and put in the work to be great doing it. Legitimate concerns about this being an issue with davis and rodgers... To a lesser degree Patterson. No reason to believe it's an issue with woods, wilson, austin, allen, etc
I agree that Wilson needs some development, especially with work ethic/strength/weight. However, I do believe he's a very natural WR and has a complete game. I think Wilson possesses game speed, even though he didn't test well.Below is one reason why I'm not as worried about DB's physically dominating him.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILOiSfpEHUgTechnique: 38 seconds in. I really like his press break technique(it's what I teach players). Low chest(gives less area for DB's to hit), stem inside(gives a 2 way break and puts the defender in a bind/less aggressive), uses his hands to knock down the DB's hands.
Why are you giving Keenan Allen a free pass when he came to the combine 1" shorter and several pounds lighter than advertised? He is now considered a huge medical red flag since his recover time has been slow. In my opinion, he now has 2 strikes against him. If he runs a slow 40, there will be little justification for picking him in the 1st round.
according to who? some people heal faster than others. no need to risk re-injury in the underwear olympics. he went and met with teams and did the interviews which is probably the most important thing to NFL teams at the combine.
Free pass vs whom?6'2 + change is plenty tall enough, he's a little light, however I don't think that's the end of the world like other posters. It's not like he's Todd Pinkston. Huge medical red flag? He hurt his knee later in the year and didn't run at the combine, both Ginn/Crabtree didn't run at all pre draft.
