Eagles set to franchise Vick (1 Viewer)

[JohnnyU]

Eagles indeed set to franchise Vick

Adam Schefter reported on NFL Sunday Countdown that the Eagles are definitely planning to place their franchise tag on QB Michael Vick next month.

Such a move would guarantee Vick will be with the Eagles in 2011, and allow them to begin shopping Kevin Kolb, whom Schefter says is generating huge interest amongst rival teams. Although the Eagles have said they would like to sign Vick to a long-term extension this offseason, don't be surprised if franchising him ends up being the extent of their dealings with him. They would likely like to see him perform at the level he did in 2010 for one more year before signing him long-term. Jan.

Will they really trade Kolb? I know he made comments that he's finished in Philly if Vick stays, but is that all smoke and mirrors? The eagles have the leverage, but I'm sure they don't want to see Kolb walk after next season and get nothing, so I'm pretty sure they would take a late 1st or 2nd rd pick for Kolb.

Looks like the Eagles are playing it smart to not sign Vick to a long term deal now.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Shameful, and shameful on you JU being judgemental on Vick. Why is it smart not locking up Vick long term even though he is top3-5 at his position and has as much talent as anyone at the position in the game? Share what is so smart about it? Because you think he will screw up again? Because he went to prison he doesn't deserve another big contract? What is it JU?

 

[JohnnyU]

Shameful, and shameful on you JU being judgemental on Vick. Why is it smart not locking up Vick long term even though he is top3-5 at his position and has as much talent as anyone at the position in the game? Share what is so smart about it? Because you think he will screw up again? Because he went to prison he doesn't deserve another big contract? What is it JU?

Could you jump to any more conclusions? The reason it is smart to not sign him to a long term deal is that his style of play tends to lead to injuries. If it were me and if I could do it, I would sign him to a one year deal every year. Let him become the TO of QBs, albeit for different reasons. I don't know what's going on with you MOP, but your posting lately leaves a lot to be desired. You're better than this.

 

[David Yudkin]

While the owners plan to use the franchise tag, we don't even know if that will stick in a new CBA. So it may be an artifical designation that ultimately gets tossed out and means nothong.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Shameful, and shameful on you JU being judgemental on Vick. Why is it smart not locking up Vick long term even though he is top3-5 at his position and has as much talent as anyone at the position in the game? Share what is so smart about it? Because you think he will screw up again? Because he went to prison he doesn't deserve another big contract? What is it JU?

Could you jump to any more conclusions? The reason it is smart to not sign him to a long term deal is that his style of play tends to lead to injuries. If it were me and if I could do it, I would sign him to a one year deal every year. Let him become the TO of QBs, albeit for different reasons. I don't know what's going on with you MOP, but your posting lately leaves a lot to be desired. You're better than this.

Every QB can get injured. His style is no worse than QBs who just sit in the pocket and get crunched week in and week out. Vick deserves at least a 3-4 year deal like any other QB in the NFL that had close to his skills would get. Conclusions? You're the one starting a thread trumpeting the Eagles as good guys for doing this. I find it dispicable after what he accomplished on the field to not commit to him. This doesn't happen to Manning, Rivers, heck even Matt Cassel got a $40-$50 million deal when he came over from New England. It's bogus and it's borderline bigotry IMO JU. I'm not saying you are but this simply doesn't happen to a majority of QBs in the NFL. The guy paid his dues and paid his debt to society and I find most people that are anti-Vick still have hostile feelings over what he went to prison for. That's fine but to feel all high and mighty about the Eagles dangling Vick out there on a 1 year contract...why do you give a flip JU? It's not your money so the only reason I can come up with is that you feel better rolling around in your Chevy that Vick isn't going to get a $75 million+ deal. Vick deserves every penny the Eagles or anyone else is willing to spend. Ask yourself if Vick were allowed to test FA...what do you think a team would be willing to spend? $50 million, $75 million, $100 million??? I did a thread showing a boatload of teams that need answers at QB so why is it fair that the Eagles get to enslave Michael Vick with the franchise tag? This is why I want the players to change the way things are handled. Vick on the open market is worth at least $50 million but you're cheering because he won't get that kind of money. Since you are a Colts fan I can only assume that you have ill will to Vick. So getting back to you feeling so shocked by what I posted...I'm just calling a spade a spade. People around here cannot handle the truth, plain and simple

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Shameful, and shameful on you JU being judgemental on Vick. Why is it smart not locking up Vick long term even though he is top3-5 at his position and has as much talent as anyone at the position in the game? Share what is so smart about it? Because you think he will screw up again? Because he went to prison he doesn't deserve another big contract? What is it JU?

Could you jump to any more conclusions? The reason it is smart to not sign him to a long term deal is that his style of play tends to lead to injuries. If it were me and if I could do it, I would sign him to a one year deal every year. Let him become the TO of QBs, albeit for different reasons. I don't know what's going on with you MOP, but your posting lately leaves a lot to be desired. You're better than this.

As an Eagles fan I agree 100%. Keep him on those 1 year deals and keep him hungry. When/if something bad happens then you can cut your loses.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

And I can only laugh at Minestry of Pain....seriously? Oh because he could get more elsewhere they should just give him more, yeah, awesome idea.

Oh and I "LOL'd" at "enslaved"...thanks

 

[JohnnyU]

Every QB can get injured. His style is no worse than QBs who just sit in the pocket and get crunched week in and week out. Vick deserves at least a 3-4 year deal like any other QB in the NFL that had close to his skills would get. Conclusions? You're the one starting a thread trumpeting the Eagles as good guys for doing this. I find it dispicable after what he accomplished on the field to not commit to him. This doesn't happen to Manning, Rivers, heck even Matt Cassel got a $40-$50 million deal when he came over from New England. It's bogus and it's borderline bigotry IMO JU. I'm not saying you are but this simply doesn't happen to a majority of QBs in the NFL. The guy paid his dues and paid his debt to society and I find most people that are anti-Vick still have hostile feelings over what he went to prison for. That's fine but to feel all high and mighty about the Eagles dangling Vick out there on a 1 year contract...why do you give a flip JU? It's not your money so the only reason I can come up with is that you feel better rolling around in your Chevy that Vick isn't going to get a $75 million+ deal. Vick deserves every penny the Eagles or anyone else is willing to spend. Ask yourself if Vick were allowed to test FA...what do you think a team would be willing to spend? $50 million, $75 million, $100 million??? I did a thread showing a boatload of teams that need answers at QB so why is it fair that the Eagles get to enslave Michael Vick with the franchise tag? This is why I want the players to change the way things are handled. Vick on the open market is worth at least $50 million but you're cheering because he won't get that kind of money. Since you are a Colts fan I can only assume that you have ill will to Vick. So getting back to you feeling so shocked by what I posted...I'm just calling a spade a spade. People around here cannot handle the truth, plain and simple

OMG

 

[fruity pebbles]

Its expensive to franchise a qb for multiple years

 

[Reepicheep]

I understand the logic behind using the franchise tag given his injury history, plus wanting to see if he can play at the same level next year. But if you're concerned about injury, or his play dropping off, you can't also trade away Kolb. Say they franchise him AND trade Kolb, and Vick goes out in week 3 with a bad high-ankle sprain, the season is shot and we all find out if Mike Kafka is the future I guess.

This would suck for Vick too, he will get paid handsomely for one season but if he gets injured or stinks up the joint, there goes his shot at ever being financially solvent. From a PR perspective the Eagles have all the leverage, I don't think Vick is at the point where he can complain about contract/business stuff and not have the public (not to mention the press) turn against him.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Shameful, and shameful on you JU being judgemental on Vick. Why is it smart not locking up Vick long term even though he is top3-5 at his position and has as much talent as anyone at the position in the game? Share what is so smart about it? Because you think he will screw up again? Because he went to prison he doesn't deserve another big contract? What is it JU?

Could you jump to any more conclusions? The reason it is smart to not sign him to a long term deal is that his style of play tends to lead to injuries. If it were me and if I could do it, I would sign him to a one year deal every year. Let him become the TO of QBs, albeit for different reasons. I don't know what's going on with you MOP, but your posting lately leaves a lot to be desired. You're better than this.

Every QB can get injured. His style is no worse than QBs who just sit in the pocket and get crunched week in and week out. Vick deserves at least a 3-4 year deal like any other QB in the NFL that had close to his skills would get. Conclusions? You're the one starting a thread trumpeting the Eagles as good guys for doing this. I find it dispicable after what he accomplished on the field to not commit to him. This doesn't happen to Manning, Rivers, heck even Matt Cassel got a $40-$50 million deal when he came over from New England. It's bogus and it's borderline bigotry IMO JU. I'm not saying you are but this simply doesn't happen to a majority of QBs in the NFL. The guy paid his dues and paid his debt to society and I find most people that are anti-Vick still have hostile feelings over what he went to prison for. That's fine but to feel all high and mighty about the Eagles dangling Vick out there on a 1 year contract...why do you give a flip JU? It's not your money so the only reason I can come up with is that you feel better rolling around in your Chevy that Vick isn't going to get a $75 million+ deal. Vick deserves every penny the Eagles or anyone else is willing to spend. Ask yourself if Vick were allowed to test FA...what do you think a team would be willing to spend? $50 million, $75 million, $100 million??? I did a thread showing a boatload of teams that need answers at QB so why is it fair that the Eagles get to enslave Michael Vick with the franchise tag? This is why I want the players to change the way things are handled. Vick on the open market is worth at least $50 million but you're cheering because he won't get that kind of money. Since you are a Colts fan I can only assume that you have ill will to Vick. So getting back to you feeling so shocked by what I posted...I'm just calling a spade a spade. People around here cannot handle the truth, plain and simple

What's going on here?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

And I can only laugh at Minestry of Pain....seriously? Oh because he could get more elsewhere they should just give him more, yeah, awesome idea. Oh and I "LOL'd" at "enslaved"...thanks

Vick fills the seats, he's a player that all fans set time to the side to watch because they never know what he might do next and yet Philly fans like you don't want to see the team pay the guy like any other QB for any other NFL team would be paid. What's wrong with this picture?I watch every game he plays in no matter what and the reason is the guy is a STAR in the NFL, period. He has one of the most interesting stories in the NFL and they will do a movie on this guy one of these days. He is still in his prime and suddenly the Shark Pool doesn't want to see this guy get paid. I'm stunned. This is one of the most bigoted threads I have come across in a long time and it's not even apologetic or trying to mask what it is. Sooner or later someone is going to echo what I am saying. I cannot believe the entire Shark Pool agrees with this and is cheering this on.

 

[Sabertooth]

Shameful, and shameful on you JU being judgemental on Vick. Why is it smart not locking up Vick long term even though he is top3-5 at his position and has as much talent as anyone at the position in the game? Share what is so smart about it? Because you think he will screw up again? Because he went to prison he doesn't deserve another big contract? What is it JU?

He is a character risk. His style of play makes him an injury risk. Teams may or may not have figured out how to defend his style and he appeared to revert to the old Michael Vick late in the season once teams caught up to him. Oh and he choked away the game against the Packers. Plus he started whining about his probation late in the season making him a PR risk. HTH.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Every QB can get injured. His style is no worse than QBs who just sit in the pocket and get crunched week in and week out. Vick deserves at least a 3-4 year deal like any other QB in the NFL that had close to his skills would get. Conclusions? You're the one starting a thread trumpeting the Eagles as good guys for doing this. I find it dispicable after what he accomplished on the field to not commit to him. This doesn't happen to Manning, Rivers, heck even Matt Cassel got a $40-$50 million deal when he came over from New England. It's bogus and it's borderline bigotry IMO JU. I'm not saying you are but this simply doesn't happen to a majority of QBs in the NFL. The guy paid his dues and paid his debt to society and I find most people that are anti-Vick still have hostile feelings over what he went to prison for. That's fine but to feel all high and mighty about the Eagles dangling Vick out there on a 1 year contract...why do you give a flip JU? It's not your money so the only reason I can come up with is that you feel better rolling around in your Chevy that Vick isn't going to get a $75 million+ deal. Vick deserves every penny the Eagles or anyone else is willing to spend. Ask yourself if Vick were allowed to test FA...what do you think a team would be willing to spend? $50 million, $75 million, $100 million??? I did a thread showing a boatload of teams that need answers at QB so why is it fair that the Eagles get to enslave Michael Vick with the franchise tag? This is why I want the players to change the way things are handled. Vick on the open market is worth at least $50 million but you're cheering because he won't get that kind of money. Since you are a Colts fan I can only assume that you have ill will to Vick. So getting back to you feeling so shocked by what I posted...I'm just calling a spade a spade. People around here cannot handle the truth, plain and simple

OMG

 

[JohnnyU]

MOP, I can't believe you called this thread "bigoted". It seems you've had a bad year MOP.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Shameful, and shameful on you JU being judgemental on Vick. Why is it smart not locking up Vick long term even though he is top3-5 at his position and has as much talent as anyone at the position in the game? Share what is so smart about it? Because you think he will screw up again? Because he went to prison he doesn't deserve another big contract? What is it JU?

He is a character risk. His style of play makes him an injury risk. Teams may or may not have figured out how to defend his style and he appeared to revert to the old Michael Vick late in the season once teams caught up to him. Oh and he choked away the game against the Packers. Plus he started whining about his probation late in the season making him a PR risk. HTH.

If Vick is a character risk then what is Cromartie of the Jets? how many children does he have? How about Ray Lewis? Every team has guys with character risk bringing down millions. Vick isn't a character risk. He went to prison for his crime, what does he do day to day that you wouldn't want children to emulate? Hard work, willingness to fight back from terrible odds, eats the bad press when its flung his way??? What exactly do people not like? I don't need it spelled out. People still hate what he did and no matter how many years he wasted away in prison some people will never think it enough. We have child molestors walking the street, folks that have murdered other human beings, and even tax evaders so why does Vick get all the hate?

 

[Domination]

As an Eagles fan, I hope the franchise tag is just so they can sign and trade him. Vick's value will never be higher than it is right now. I am not buying into him being a new and improved QB, and this is the 1st yr he would have even been in consideration for "Top 3-5". I think it is more likely that he returns to closer to his old numbers, than all the sudden become a Elite QB. I may very well be wrong, and if I am I will accept my mistake, but it seems much more likely that this year was his peak, than it does that this was the beginning of a trend.

As to MoP, you are correct that anyone can get hurt, but to say that his style of play does not lead to more injuries is asinine. Support Vick, don't support Vick, it doesn't really matter to me. I am looking at it as a fan, and just as I thought that they should trade McNabb to get good value, I feel that they should do the same with Vick. I am sure that someone will definitely give him his deserved money, I just hope it isn't my team, because it could hurt them for multiple years.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

MOP, I can't believe you called this thread "bigoted". It seems you've had a bad year MOP.

Nope, won my dynasty league. Guess who is on my team though. JU, it's not personal so you shouldn't feel that way. I just am really miffed why people would cheer this. I think the players should get every penny they can in the NFL. The money the owners make hand over fist should be shared because the fans don't pile into the stadiums to watch Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder, or Bud Adams. The owners make plenty and the players make great money too, it's the best thing going. But I don't like the franchise tag and I also think the rookie contracts should be smaller and shorter...3-4 years tops and force teams to evaluate their talent quicker and better.

 

[Sabertooth]

Shameful, and shameful on you JU being judgemental on Vick. Why is it smart not locking up Vick long term even though he is top3-5 at his position and has as much talent as anyone at the position in the game? Share what is so smart about it? Because you think he will screw up again? Because he went to prison he doesn't deserve another big contract? What is it JU?

He is a character risk. His style of play makes him an injury risk. Teams may or may not have figured out how to defend his style and he appeared to revert to the old Michael Vick late in the season once teams caught up to him. Oh and he choked away the game against the Packers. Plus he started whining about his probation late in the season making him a PR risk. HTH.

If Vick is a character risk then what is Cromartie of the Jets? how many children does he have? How about Ray Lewis? Every team has guys with character risk bringing down millions. Vick isn't a character risk. He went to prison for his crime, what does he do day to day that you wouldn't want children to emulate? Hard work, willingness to fight back from terrible odds, eats the bad press when its flung his way??? What exactly do people not like? I don't need it spelled out. People still hate what he did and no matter how many years he wasted away in prison some people will never think it enough. We have child molestors walking the street, folks that have murdered other human beings, and even tax evaders so why does Vick get all the hate?

Cromartie is also a character risk and I wouldn't mortgage the franchise on. Ray Lewis is as well. None of that changes the truth about Vick. He's not entitled to a big contract. He invited all the bad press when he electrocuted dogs with impunity. I think the term "you reap what you sow" is very applicable here. The lesson that people should take is that sometimes there are consequences for your actions. Sometimes those consequences are severe. I don't feel bad for him even a tiny little bit.

 

[TheWheel]

Look, regardless of CBA issues, it's important for the Eagles to own the rights to Vick no matter what happens. They can talk contract without other suitors. As for Vick's playing style leading to injury, I don't know. I'd say you have as much chance getting jacked up with concrete feet and a crappy o-line as running the ball every few plays. Ideally, he would learn to slide or not have to run at all.

 

[No Way Jose]

Shameful, and shameful on you JU being judgemental on Vick. Why is it smart not locking up Vick long term even though he is top3-5 at his position and has as much talent as anyone at the position in the game? Share what is so smart about it? Because you think he will screw up again? Because he went to prison he doesn't deserve another big contract? What is it JU?

He is a character risk. His style of play makes him an injury risk. Teams may or may not have figured out how to defend his style and he appeared to revert to the old Michael Vick late in the season once teams caught up to him. Oh and he choked away the game against the Packers. Plus he started whining about his probation late in the season making him a PR risk. HTH.

If Vick is a character risk then what is Cromartie of the Jets? how many children does he have? How about Ray Lewis? Every team has guys with character risk bringing down millions. Vick isn't a character risk. He went to prison for his crime, what does he do day to day that you wouldn't want children to emulate? Hard work, willingness to fight back from terrible odds, eats the bad press when its flung his way??? What exactly do people not like? I don't need it spelled out. People still hate what he did and no matter how many years he wasted away in prison some people will never think it enough. We have child molestors walking the street, folks that have murdered other human beings, and even tax evaders so why does Vick get all the hate?

Franchising salary for a qb is quite high, don't see any reason to feel sorry for the guy.

 

[fruity pebbles]

U people.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

He's not entitled to a big contract. He invited all the bad press when he electrocuted dogs with impunity.

I think the term "you reap what you sow" is very applicable here.

The lesson that people should take is that sometimes there are consequences for your actions. Sometimes those consequences are severe. I don't feel bad for him even a tiny little bit.

Exhibit "A" your honor.

 

[Jason Wood]

MOP,

You're entitled to your opinion but respect others as well. I follow the Eagles as closely as anybody and I think franchising him and not giving him an extension is the ONLY solution, and I'm damn sure not a bigot. Many Eagles fans feel the same way and last time I checked we've spent the better part of our fandom rooting for black quarterbacks.

Vick is ABSOLUTELY still a character risk. I want to believe he's a changed man but it would be foolish to think it's true based on what we've seen so far. How a person acts when they're fresh out of prison and the few million they're earning are to pay back bankruptcy creditors is a lot different than seeing if they've changed once they're back in the megastar level in income and notoriety. My father is a retired detective and I can tell you countless stories of guys who swore the were changed men yet fell right back into similar patterns. Recidivism is a reality, and I don't know that theres evidence prison changes the moral fiber of a person much less their ability to use sound judgment.

Let's not forget that this is a guy who threw himself an elaborate six figure birthday party where his cousin was shot. This was while he was still playing for the $1mm we paid him in his first year and where most of those wages were garnished. So he spent a huge chunk of his disposable income on a party that ended up having a guy he wasn't supposed to be associating with anymore shot. That scares the living daylights out of me.

And then theres his play on the field. Eagles fans wanted McNabb gone because most felt he was very good but not good enough to win a championship. Well to my mind thats EXACTLY who Vick is. He'll devour average defenses but when he faces disciplined playoff caliber defenses, he can be neutralized. And those are the defenses we'll need to get through to win a title.

Last but not least, his style of play absolutely makes him a bigger risk. He takes huge hits and his game relies on his legs. That asset is going to leave him a lot faster than an ability to make throws in a strong pocket would.

So as an Eagles fan I hope upon hope that we tag him and nothing more, and let's see him repeat 2010 for a full season and keep that level of play up against teams I the playoffs.

 

[Amused to Death]

Radio chatter says the Eagles' price for Kolb is a 1 or a 2 plus a 3 (maybe future). With the less-then-stellar QB reports coming from the Senior Bowl, KK's value should only go up.

 

[Domination]

MOP, I can't believe you called this thread "bigoted". It seems you've had a bad year MOP.

Nope, won my dynasty league. Guess who is on my team though. JU, it's not personal so you shouldn't feel that way. I just am really miffed why people would cheer this. I think the players should get every penny they can in the NFL. The money the owners make hand over fist should be shared because the fans don't pile into the stadiums to watch Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder, or Bud Adams. The owners make plenty and the players make great money too, it's the best thing going. But I don't like the franchise tag and I also think the rookie contracts should be smaller and shorter...3-4 years tops and force teams to evaluate their talent quicker and better.

I think you went about your complaints in the wrong way, especially after reading this post. I agree with most of what you said, but I also understand things form the owners "business" perspective. I think that the players should get every penny while they are there, because the fans do come to see them, and they careers are relatively short. Also, the rookie contracts, is 100% dead on, and I think that it will be one of the easier things for the owners and players association to agree on. But as an owner, the franchise tag makes alot of sense. The player is still being paid as an elite of his position, and covers the owner in case of injury, behavior, attitude, assention of another player, or decline of skills. The franchise tag is not that much different from the fact that the contracts are not guaranteed. But I can tell you, as a fan of other sports, that is the smartest thing that the league could have done. If you look at just about any other sport, a bad contract could hamstrung your team for years, even after said player is gone.Vick is an amazing talent, and does things that just about no one else could. But because of this, he is viewed as reckless, and an injury concern. He plays with great heart, and has seemed to rededicate himself to learning how to be an actual QB. I think the Eagles want to know which Vick they will get, the one who put up elite stats and was a MVP candidate, albeit against mostly low level teams. Or the one who looked much more mortal, and while still making some big plays, did not play like an elite QB against some better defenses down the stretch. The one thing that I don't understand from alot of people. Is that if you want to trade Kolb, and have faith in Vick, then why should that person be afraid of giving Vick his contract?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

MOP, I can't believe you called this thread "bigoted". It seems you've had a bad year MOP.

Nope, won my dynasty league. Guess who is on my team though. JU, it's not personal so you shouldn't feel that way. I just am really miffed why people would cheer this. I think the players should get every penny they can in the NFL. The money the owners make hand over fist should be shared because the fans don't pile into the stadiums to watch Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder, or Bud Adams. The owners make plenty and the players make great money too, it's the best thing going. But I don't like the franchise tag and I also think the rookie contracts should be smaller and shorter...3-4 years tops and force teams to evaluate their talent quicker and better.

I think you went about your complaints in the wrong way, especially after reading this post. I agree with most of what you said, but I also understand things form the owners "business" perspective. I think that the players should get every penny while they are there, because the fans do come to see them, and they careers are relatively short. Also, the rookie contracts, is 100% dead on, and I think that it will be one of the easier things for the owners and players association to agree on. But as an owner, the franchise tag makes alot of sense. The player is still being paid as an elite of his position, and covers the owner in case of injury, behavior, attitude, assention of another player, or decline of skills. The franchise tag is not that much different from the fact that the contracts are not guaranteed. But I can tell you, as a fan of other sports, that is the smartest thing that the league could have done. If you look at just about any other sport, a bad contract could hamstrung your team for years, even after said player is gone.Vick is an amazing talent, and does things that just about no one else could. But because of this, he is viewed as reckless, and an injury concern. He plays with great heart, and has seemed to rededicate himself to learning how to be an actual QB. I think the Eagles want to know which Vick they will get, the one who put up elite stats and was a MVP candidate, albeit against mostly low level teams. Or the one who looked much more mortal, and while still making some big plays, did not play like an elite QB against some better defenses down the stretch. The one thing that I don't understand from alot of people. Is that if you want to trade Kolb, and have faith in Vick, then why should that person be afraid of giving Vick his contract?

I understand why folks feel like they do but that doesn't change the emotions.

 

[Grid71]

Devil's advocate time. OK, you get your wish and franchise Vick for 1 year knowing you can just franchise him again next year stringing him along. Week 2 of the NFL season, Vick gets knocked out for the season with an injury. Don't you still want the team to sign a long term contract to keep him in Philly for next season? Only difference is Vick is one year older before you've signed him to a long term contract.

I can't believe Philly is going to get to a point where they don't want Vick as their QB over the next 3-5 years. It makes much more sense to pay him now. Give him the "long term" support for stability of the franchise. Your players will know he is the man. It sends a much better message to the other players versus stringing Vick along year to year. If my employer is going to jack around a guy who has done what Vick has, what makes me think they will do right by me?

Man up Philly. You know what should be done. Find a way to get it done while Vick is still appreciative of the opportunity you gave him. It may earn you more of a discount than waiting.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

MOP,You're entitled to your opinion but respect others as well. I follow the Eagles as closely as anybody and I think franchising him and not giving him an extension is the ONLY solution, and I'm damn sure not a bigot. Many Eagles fans feel the same way and last time I checked we've spent the better part of our fandom rooting for black quarterbacks.Vick is ABSOLUTELY still a character risk. I want to believe he's a changed man but it would be foolish to think it's true based on what we've seen so far. How a person acts when they're fresh out of prison and the few million they're earning are to pay back bankruptcy creditors is a lot different than seeing if they've changed once they're back in the megastar level in income and notoriety. My father is a retired detective and I can tell you countless stories of guys who swore the were changed men yet fell right back into similar patterns. Recidivism is a reality, and I don't know that theres evidence prison changes the moral fiber of a person much less their ability to use sound judgment.Let's not forget that this is a guy who threw himself an elaborate six figure birthday party where his cousin was shot. This was while he was still playing for the $1mm we paid him in his first year and where most of those wages were garnished. So he spent a huge chunk of his disposable income on a party that ended up having a guy he wasn't supposed to be associating with anymore shot. That scares the living daylights out of me.And then theres his play on the field. Eagles fans wanted McNabb gone because most felt he was very good but not good enough to win a championship. Well to my mind thats EXACTLY who Vick is. He'll devour average defenses but when he faces disciplined playoff caliber defenses, he can be neutralized. And those are the defenses we'll need to get through to win a title.Last but not least, his style of play absolutely makes him a bigger risk. He takes huge hits and his game relies on his legs. That asset is going to leave him a lot faster than an ability to make throws in a strong pocket would. So as an Eagles fan I hope upon hope that we tag him and nothing more, and let's see him repeat 2010 for a full season and keep that level of play up against teams I the playoffs.

Jason I do respect others but there is some obvious bias against Vick over what he did. Other players have done equal if not worse things and served no jail time. Vick is a Superstar in the NFL and FF; even players in the league want his autograph, he should be paid and taken care of as one.

 

[JohnnyU]

Devil's advocate time. OK, you get your wish and franchise Vick for 1 year knowing you can just franchise him again next year stringing him along. Week 2 of the NFL season, Vick gets knocked out for the season with an injury. Don't you still want the team to sign a long term contract to keep him in Philly for next season? Only difference is Vick is one year older before you've signed him to a long term contract.

No, I wouldn't want to sign him to a long term deal if he gets hurt and is out for the season in week 2. That just reinforces the "style of play leads to injuries" argument.

 

[Grid71]

MOP,

You're entitled to your opinion but respect others as well. I follow the Eagles as closely as anybody and I think franchising him and not giving him an extension is the ONLY solution, and I'm damn sure not a bigot. Many Eagles fans feel the same way and last time I checked we've spent the better part of our fandom rooting for black quarterbacks.

Vick is ABSOLUTELY still a character risk. I want to believe he's a changed man but it would be foolish to think it's true based on what we've seen so far. How a person acts when they're fresh out of prison and the few million they're earning are to pay back bankruptcy creditors is a lot different than seeing if they've changed once they're back in the megastar level in income and notoriety. My father is a retired detective and I can tell you countless stories of guys who swore the were changed men yet fell right back into similar patterns. Recidivism is a reality, and I don't know that theres evidence prison changes the moral fiber of a person much less their ability to use sound judgment.

Let's not forget that this is a guy who threw himself an elaborate six figure birthday party where his cousin was shot. This was while he was still playing for the $1mm we paid him in his first year and where most of those wages were garnished. So he spent a huge chunk of his disposable income on a party that ended up having a guy he wasn't supposed to be associating with anymore shot. That scares the living daylights out of me.

And then theres his play on the field. Eagles fans wanted McNabb gone because most felt he was very good but not good enough to win a championship. Well to my mind thats EXACTLY who Vick is. He'll devour average defenses but when he faces disciplined playoff caliber defenses, he can be neutralized. And those are the defenses we'll need to get through to win a title.

Last but not least, his style of play absolutely makes him a bigger risk. He takes huge hits and his game relies on his legs. That asset is going to leave him a lot faster than an ability to make throws in a strong pocket would.

So as an Eagles fan I hope upon hope that we tag him and nothing more, and let's see him repeat 2010 for a full season and keep that level of play up against teams I the playoffs.

Serious question Jason. Other than a character breakdown where Vick gets in trouble with the law again, do you see a scenario where the Eagles won't want Vick as their starting QB over the next 3-5 years? The only thing I can come up with is Vick getting injured and Kolb comes in performing at an Aaron Rodgers level. Even that scenario is weak because some team out there is going to pony up a great offer for Kolb as long as the CBA doesn't get in the way.

 

[Ghost Rider]

We have child molestors walking the street, folks that have murdered other human beings, and even tax evaders so why does Vick get all the hate?

Yes, because Michael Vick is the ONLY player in the NFL that people hate. Good Lord, man, between that and your bigot accusation, you have really embarrassed yourself in this thread.

 

[Grid71]

Devil's advocate time. OK, you get your wish and franchise Vick for 1 year knowing you can just franchise him again next year stringing him along. Week 2 of the NFL season, Vick gets knocked out for the season with an injury. Don't you still want the team to sign a long term contract to keep him in Philly for next season? Only difference is Vick is one year older before you've signed him to a long term contract.

No, I wouldn't want to sign him to a long term deal if he gets hurt and is out for the season in week 2. That just reinforces the "style of play leads to injuries" argument.

To be clear. You think it's a good idea to Franchise Vick in 2011 then let him walk in 2012 if he gets injured.No offense. I find it very hard to believe the Eagles would be willing to do this. Especially if they end up trading Kolb.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

We have child molestors walking the street, folks that have murdered other human beings, and even tax evaders so why does Vick get all the hate?

Yes, because Michael Vick is the ONLY player in the NFL that people hate. Good Lord, man, between that and your bigot accusation, you have really embarrassed yourself in this thread.

Not the 1st time and won't be the last. I'm fine with everything I wrote. I'm not afraid to share my thoughts, never have been. If you don't like it or disagree that's fine but it's a lot easier to come in behind someone and just say "embarrassing". What did you write about it?

 

[renesauz]

And I can only laugh at Minestry of Pain....seriously? Oh because he could get more elsewhere they should just give him more, yeah, awesome idea. Oh and I "LOL'd" at "enslaved"...thanks

Vick fills the seats, he's a player that all fans set time to the side to watch because they never know what he might do next and yet Philly fans like you don't want to see the team pay the guy like any other QB for any other NFL team would be paid. What's wrong with this picture?I watch every game he plays in no matter what and the reason is the guy is a STAR in the NFL, period. He has one of the most interesting stories in the NFL and they will do a movie on this guy one of these days. He is still in his prime and suddenly the Shark Pool doesn't want to see this guy get paid. I'm stunned. This is one of the most bigoted threads I have come across in a long time and it's not even apologetic or trying to mask what it is. Sooner or later someone is going to echo what I am saying. I cannot believe the entire Shark Pool agrees with this and is cheering this on.

MOP...I think you're jumping to some unfair conclusions here. First of all, a franchise tag on Vick would pay him BIG bucks. And the way the tag works, it's really not feasible to use it more than once on a player, so the idea that Vick would be enslaved to any team is ludicrous.The guy is a star, but a star with an odd history which makes it very difficult to place an accurate value on him. He did tail off at the end of the year and there exists a legitimate concern that defensive schemes caught up to him a little bit, and that his production through the first 12 games of 2010 is not likely to be achieved again. No certainty mind you, but a legitimate concern. If the choice came down to a one year franchise tag or a 4 year 60 million dollar deal, a very strong case could be made that the Eagles would be wise use the tag and work a deal during the later part of the season should Vick be as productive as in 2010. This is NOT an anti-Vick sentiment, as you're far too quick to judge it. Calling him a top 3-4 QB is, IMHO, premature. Calling him a top 10-12 is not. Paying a top 12 QB like a top 3 QB would hamstring the franchise (assuming the salary cap stays in place).As far as Kolb goes...it's a tough spot both for him and the franchise. While it's certainly in Philly's short term interests to hold him, the long term interests are clouded by the uncertainty surrounding Vick. I don't see Philly letting him go for anythng less than a mid-high 1st or a late first/early 2nd and more picks.Personally, I'd like to see the Eagles trade Vick to a team desperate enough to give Vick the mega-deal and use the inbound pick bonanza to shore up the O-line and secondary....but I realize that I'm higher than most on Kolb. IE: I'm not so much anti-Vick as I am pro-Kolb.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Is Vick making 8-10 million next season some sort of unfair punishment? I am not sure why this is looked at as though the guy was told that he is not welcomed back.

I think this has less to do about his troubled past than the concerns about his age and game. As someone mentioned good defenses started to contain him and he is on the wrong side of 30 for a running QB. His passing has improved however he is not nearly as dynamic if he loses a step or two.

That is my opinion.

 

[az_prof]

Eagles indeed set to franchise Vick Adam Schefter reported on NFL Sunday Countdown that the Eagles are definitely planning to place their franchise tag on QB Michael Vick next month.Such a move would guarantee Vick will be with the Eagles in 2011, and allow them to begin shopping Kevin Kolb, whom Schefter says is generating huge interest amongst rival teams. Although the Eagles have said they would like to sign Vick to a long-term extension this offseason, don't be surprised if franchising him ends up being the extent of their dealings with him. They would likely like to see him perform at the level he did in 2010 for one more year before signing him long-term. Jan. Will they really trade Kolb? I know he made comments that he's finished in Philly if Vick stays, but is that all smoke and mirrors? The eagles have the leverage, but I'm sure they don't want to see Kolb walk after next season and get nothing, so I'm pretty sure they would take a late 1st or 2nd rd pick for Kolb.Looks like the Eagles are playing it smart to not sign Vick to a long term deal now.

I don't understand how teams can franchise if there is no CBA?

 

[az_prof]

Is Vick making 8-10 million next season some sort of unfair punishment? I am not sure why this is looked at as though the guy was told that he is not welcomed back.I think this has less to do about his troubled past than the concerns about his age and game. As someone mentioned good defenses started to contain him and he is on the wrong side of 30 for a running QB. His passing has improved however he is not nearly as dynamic if he loses a step or two. That is my opinion.

And injury. He is still more likely than most QBs to be injured.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

If by some miracle Vick were traded to Miami, do you think Miami would have any problem selling out their season tickets? Almost any team that gets him automatically sells out every game well before the season rolls around. He's the most exciting player in the NFL right now.

 

[Jason Wood]

Serious question Jason. Other than a character breakdown where Vick gets in trouble with the law again, do you see a scenario where the Eagles won't want Vick as their starting QB over the next 3-5 years? The only thing I can come up with is Vick getting injured and Kolb comes in performing at an Aaron Rodgers level. Even that scenario is weak because some team out there is going to pony up a great offer for Kolb as long as the CBA doesn't get in the way.

Probably not Grid, although again the two reasons I'm scared of giving him a long-term deal are exactly what you're suggesting...injury and/or character issues. If he plays well next year, stays healthy, and keeps the offense at a top level, I agree that the Eagles will then lock him up whether any particular fan (myself included) wants it or not.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'm also aghast at the notion that franchising Vick isn't "paying him what he's worth." MOP, we would be guaranteeing the guy $18-$20 million for one season. That's an enormous amount of money and more than fair. After that, if Vick did his part and played well, we would either be in the position to give him a long-term deal or let him sign elsewhere for an equally huge contract.

 

[TheWheel]

Here's what I want to know: why is Vick still getting crucified for killing dogs when your local animal shelter does it everyday, times a million with no backlash? Why aren't there as many topics about Ray Lewis or Donte Stallworth who allegedly or actually murdered people? PEOPLE. Not an animal who you already dominate and subject to your superiority. If you really gave a #### about your animal, you wouldn't be domesticating them--your just pumping up your ego. I'll even make the argument that you all are worse than Michael Vick. He watched dogs fight and kill each other and then put them out of their misery. You watch humans destroy each others lives every week for your entertainment and then ridicule them when their bodies have nothing left. Is it better to be a dog who gets killed or a human in utter pain for decade upon decade upon decade? Before you call Michael Vick a bad man you had better make sure you aren't bad yourself. The sadist calling the sadist sick.

 

[blackbird001]

This thread is funny.

To anyone who feels Vick has shown enough and deserves a huge mega-deal, you should have hoped that a team with an irresponsible or transient front office picked Vick up after his prison release. Not one of the most (if not the most) stable, smart, and responsible ones. I am fully aware of the anti-vick sentiments that MOP speaks of and I have people all around me who feel he hasn't paid his debt and should suffer more. That's ridiculous. I don't like the man as a person, but you can't say he hasn't paid his societal debt. But, he is one strike against being done for good and you just don't hand that guy guaranteed money of any kind. I've made this point in Kolb threads elsewhere in the SP, but if the CBA includes language that allows for recovery of money when a player defaults on his deal for some moral or legal trouble, Philly will give him his deal. But, they absolutely won't if that doesn't get amended. They are too fiscally savvy.

Oh and a franchise tag would pay the guy closer to $20 mil next season. Which is likely what his agent is going to seek in a multi-year deal, so its not that bad of a deal for him to end up with.

Too many moving parts still to determine whether Vick of Kolb goes. The good news, is I think Philly is comfortable with either scenario.

 

[Grid71]

Serious question Jason. Other than a character breakdown where Vick gets in trouble with the law again, do you see a scenario where the Eagles won't want Vick as their starting QB over the next 3-5 years? The only thing I can come up with is Vick getting injured and Kolb comes in performing at an Aaron Rodgers level. Even that scenario is weak because some team out there is going to pony up a great offer for Kolb as long as the CBA doesn't get in the way.

Probably not Grid, although again the two reasons I'm scared of giving him a long-term deal are exactly what you're suggesting...injury and/or character issues. If he plays well next year, stays healthy, and keeps the offense at a top level, I agree that the Eagles will then lock him up whether any particular fan (myself included) wants it or not.

That's the part I don't understand. You can structure a long term deal with roster bonuses (like the McNabb deal) allowing the team to part with Vick if some terrible character issue rears its ugly head. Even the casual NFL fan knows Vick is an amazing player and fun to watch. He puts butts in the seats. Why does it benefit the Eagles to pay him franchise tag money this year (nothing to sneeze at) and send a message to the other players that you don't know if you want Vick to be your starter long term? It can only create a division in the locker room between different QBs or worse, between Vick supporters and management. With Vick's history off the field. I can't see Vick having any trouble signing a contact that motivates him financially to keep his act clean off the field. He will be motivated to do the right things (or at least not do the wrong things) off the field and move forward without having to look over his shoulder.

 

[renesauz]

Here's what I want to know: why is Vick still getting crucified for killing dogs when your local animal shelter does it everyday, times a million with no backlash? Why aren't there as many topics about Ray Lewis or Donte Stallworth who allegedly or actually murdered people? PEOPLE. Not an animal who you already dominate and subject to your superiority. If you really gave a #### about your animal, you wouldn't be domesticating them--your just pumping up your ego. I'll even make the argument that you all are worse than Michael Vick. He watched dogs fight and kill each other and then put them out of their misery. You watch humans destroy each others lives every week for your entertainment and then ridicule them when their bodies have nothing left. Is it better to be a dog who gets killed or a human in utter pain for decade upon decade upon decade? Before you call Michael Vick a bad man you had better make sure you aren't bad yourself. The sadist calling the sadist sick.

Here's what I want to know....Why is every question about Vick interpreted as a crucification because of his dog-fighting? Do you really think it impossible that someone would prefer to trade Vick, and not give a rats behind about his jail time? I gotta tell you...you're way off base with your assumptions because a lot of us aren't anti-Vick over what he did. In many cases, we aren't anti-Vick at all. Assuming the tag works as it has in the past, Vick would get a one year deal paying him as the leagues third highest paid QB. This is unfair how? I (and a few others) take offense at the accusations of bias.Some people hate the franchise tag period, and I understand why, but the idea that a player can be tagged every year into perpituity is ridiculous. A tag gaurentees the HIGHER of 1: The average of the top five at his position, or 2. a 25% pay raise over the previous year. Applying a tag as econd year virtually gaurentees a player to be the highest paid at his position, and a third year would break that highest by another 25%. IE: A player is well compensated for the one year of injustice, and any additional years could hardly be an injustice at all.

 

[Jason Wood]

Serious question Jason. Other than a character breakdown where Vick gets in trouble with the law again, do you see a scenario where the Eagles won't want Vick as their starting QB over the next 3-5 years? The only thing I can come up with is Vick getting injured and Kolb comes in performing at an Aaron Rodgers level. Even that scenario is weak because some team out there is going to pony up a great offer for Kolb as long as the CBA doesn't get in the way.

Probably not Grid, although again the two reasons I'm scared of giving him a long-term deal are exactly what you're suggesting...injury and/or character issues. If he plays well next year, stays healthy, and keeps the offense at a top level, I agree that the Eagles will then lock him up whether any particular fan (myself included) wants it or not.

That's the part I don't understand. You can structure a long term deal with roster bonuses (like the McNabb deal) allowing the team to part with Vick if some terrible character issue rears its ugly head. Even the casual NFL fan knows Vick is an amazing player and fun to watch. He puts butts in the seats. Why does it benefit the Eagles to pay him franchise tag money this year (nothing to sneeze at) and send a message to the other players that you don't know if you want Vick to be your starter long term? It can only create a division in the locker room between different QBs or worse, between Vick supporters and management. With Vick's history off the field. I can't see Vick having any trouble signing a contact that motivates him financially to keep his act clean off the field. He will be motivated to do the right things (or at least not do the wrong things) off the field and move forward without having to look over his shoulder.

Let's be fair here, that's absolutely possible, too. We're reacting to a post about a "report" that has nothing official from the Eagles tied to it. The main reason for why I think a franchise tag is in order is timing. The odds of getting Vick's agent to agree to a huge new extension, particularly one with so many incentives and performance clauses, in a timely matter are slim. The franchise tag was designed for just this situation, it locks up his rights but doesn't preclude the team from then working on extension that would supersede the tag.

 

[Instinctive]

If by some miracle Vick were traded to Miami, do you think Miami would have any problem selling out their season tickets? Almost any team that gets him automatically sells out every game well before the season rolls around. He's the most exciting player in the NFL right now.

That's all well and good, but do you honestly think he's a guaranteed top 3-5 QB right now or is FF clouding your judgment?I've been one of the biggest Vick supporters, especially back when the Eagles first signed him, and I think it would be a good idea to franchise him. You can work on a long term deal down the road a bit next season, if his production is still elite. If he plays like he did against Minny, GB at the end of the season, then you pay him like a top 10 guy, and not a top 3 one.It's incredibly presumptuous and, quite frankly, moronic to assume that this is all about character/injury risk and Vick being black and all that s$@t. It's about the fact that he's never, I repeat NEVER, played at the level he did this season as a passer. I would want another 10-12 games to make sure it's not just a mirage before I committed $60+ million.

 

[Ghost Rider]

We have child molestors walking the street, folks that have murdered other human beings, and even tax evaders so why does Vick get all the hate?

Yes, because Michael Vick is the ONLY player in the NFL that people hate. Good Lord, man, between that and your bigot accusation, you have really embarrassed yourself in this thread.

Not the 1st time and won't be the last. I'm fine with everything I wrote. I'm not afraid to share my thoughts, never have been. If you don't like it or disagree that's fine but it's a lot easier to come in behind someone and just say "embarrassing". What did you write about it?

I didn't need to write anything; several others pretty much said what I would have said anyway, so I didn't feel the need to reiterate their points at that time. But your cries of bigotry were absurd and needed to be called out. You honestly don't see how destructive that can be to a good discussion? And you can't stand behind the "It is my opinion, which I am entitled to" mantra all day, unless you are ready for anyone calling you out on the possible absurdity of said opinion. But in case you are wondering, I think this is smart, what the Eagles are doing. Considering how Vick wore down at the end of the season, I think seeing how he does in another season is important in order to see if he can actually be durable and stay healthy. Let's face it, for as good as he was this past season, he didn't even play the whole season, and yet he still wore down late. His style of play is not conducive to one staying healthy on a regular basis; not with the number of shots he takes. And if the NFL goes to an 18-game season, it makes him even more of a risk.

 

[thatguy]

Shameful, and shameful on you JU being judgemental on Vick. Why is it smart not locking up Vick long term even though he is top3-5 at his position and has as much talent as anyone at the position in the game? Share what is so smart about it? Because you think he will screw up again? Because he went to prison he doesn't deserve another big contract? What is it JU?

Could you jump to any more conclusions? The reason it is smart to not sign him to a long term deal is that his style of play tends to lead to injuries. If it were me and if I could do it, I would sign him to a one year deal every year. Let him become the TO of QBs, albeit for different reasons. I don't know what's going on with you MOP, but your posting lately leaves a lot to be desired. You're better than this.

Every QB can get injured. His style is no worse than QBs who just sit in the pocket and get crunched week in and week out. Vick deserves at least a 3-4 year deal like any other QB in the NFL that had close to his skills would get. Conclusions? You're the one starting a thread trumpeting the Eagles as good guys for doing this. I find it dispicable after what he accomplished on the field to not commit to him. This doesn't happen to Manning, Rivers, heck even Matt Cassel got a $40-$50 million deal when he came over from New England. It's bogus and it's borderline bigotry IMO JU. I'm not saying you are but this simply doesn't happen to a majority of QBs in the NFL. The guy paid his dues and paid his debt to society and I find most people that are anti-Vick still have hostile feelings over what he went to prison for. That's fine but to feel all high and mighty about the Eagles dangling Vick out there on a 1 year contract...why do you give a flip JU? It's not your money so the only reason I can come up with is that you feel better rolling around in your Chevy that Vick isn't going to get a $75 million+ deal. Vick deserves every penny the Eagles or anyone else is willing to spend. Ask yourself if Vick were allowed to test FA...what do you think a team would be willing to spend? $50 million, $75 million, $100 million??? I did a thread showing a boatload of teams that need answers at QB so why is it fair that the Eagles get to enslave Michael Vick with the franchise tag? This is why I want the players to change the way things are handled. Vick on the open market is worth at least $50 million but you're cheering because he won't get that kind of money. Since you are a Colts fan I can only assume that you have ill will to Vick. So getting back to you feeling so shocked by what I posted...I'm just calling a spade a spade. People around here cannot handle the truth, plain and simple

What's going on here?

Not trying to pile on MOP, but... wow.

 

[metoo]

I can understand the character issues but Kolb would not have made it through the season with that line. Is Kolb injury prone? I would love to see what the new Vick can do behind a decent line.