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Eagles set to franchise Vick (1 Viewer)

I don't like Tom Brady...at all...however there is room for him on my dynasty and redraft leagues, and I can sit down and even though I hate the guy I can still appreciate his skills and his way of going about the game and see the value he brings in both FF and the NFL...obviously that doesn't apply to Vick for some reason. I know it's hard for people to digest some of what I am laying out but that doesn't make it wrong just because a lot of people in here don't like Michael Vick. The double standard in here is incredible to me.
Okay so you think Tom Brady and Michael Vick are comparable and thus should be viewed the same way?As a Team leader:Brady - 3 championships and 4 super bowl appearances.Vick - 0 and 0As an individual:Brady - Career - 111 wins 32 losses, 243 yds/game, 1.82 TD's per game, .7 ints/game.Vick - Career - 46 wins 32 losses, 182 yds/game, 1.16 TD's per game, .72 ints/game.Brady 2010 - 36 TD's, 4 ints, 3900 passing yardsVick 2010 - 21 TD's, 6 ints, 3018 passing yardsCharacter:Brady - Never Been in prisonVick - Served two years for gambling relating to dog fighting.I like Michael Vick and am rooting for him as a person and as a football player. But I think it is pretty clear why people might look at him and TomBrady differently. That doesn't bother me and it doesn't keep me from rooting for him. Why do people rooting against Vick bother you so much?
 
I don't like Tom Brady...at all...however there is room for him on my dynasty and redraft leagues, and I can sit down and even though I hate the guy I can still appreciate his skills and his way of going about the game and see the value he brings in both FF and the NFL...obviously that doesn't apply to Vick for some reason. I know it's hard for people to digest some of what I am laying out but that doesn't make it wrong just because a lot of people in here don't like Michael Vick. The double standard in here is incredible to me.
Okay so you think Tom Brady and Michael Vick are comparable and thus should be viewed the same way?As a Team leader:Brady - 3 championships and 4 super bowl appearances.Vick - 0 and 0As an individual:Brady - Career - 111 wins 32 losses, 243 yds/game, 1.82 TD's per game, .7 ints/game.Vick - Career - 46 wins 32 losses, 182 yds/game, 1.16 TD's per game, .72 ints/game.Brady 2010 - 36 TD's, 4 ints, 3900 passing yardsVick 2010 - 21 TD's, 6 ints, 3018 passing yardsCharacter:Brady - Never Been in prisonVick - Served two years for gambling relating to dog fighting.I like Michael Vick and am rooting for him as a person and as a football player. But I think it is pretty clear why people might look at him and TomBrady differently. That doesn't bother me and it doesn't keep me from rooting for him. Why do people rooting against Vick bother you so much?
Wait...what? I was comparing the way I don't like Brady but I can still sit down and evaluate him honestly. I didn't say Vick was Brady. People are openly saying "I don't like Vick" and then go on to say he is 2 years out form being done...how can that be an unbiased evaluation? Thank you for posting all of Brady's accomplishments. This is a rough thread.
 
cobalt_27 said:
Deranged Hermit said:
What it comes down to for me is this: Vick is going to demand a 5-6 year contract worth probably 100 mil, give or take a few mil. IMO, I can't see him being able to play at a high level another 2 years (he'll be 31 this summer). As a fan of the team, I'd rather deal him for a 1st and rebuild my o-line to protect Kolb.
This absolutely would be my thought. All this talk about whether Kolb could garner a late-first or early second, who knows? But, the yield on Vick would be greater. And, honestly, I'd rather have a pocket passer who's on the young side of things, not injury-prone, not full of baggage, etc. Vick's talent ceiling is through the roof. But, I really suspect his ceiling for navigating a team successfully through the playoffs is less than Kolb's, given his injury risk and inconsistency.
I don't disagree that I'd rather keep Kolb and trade Vick. But looking at this from a business perspective, Vick is a money bonanza. The Eagles will be the most sought after team for prime time games next season. They'll be in the news. They'll be an international sensation. Jeffrey Lurie's eyes just turned into dollar signs.
This is also a good reason to sign Vick to a long term deal. Keep the fan interest on a big attraction. Even if you don't with the SB with Vick, your team comes out ahead. Mucho pressure is off at this point in time. It makes the pot even sweeter if the Eagles can pile up the draft picks by trading Kolb in the process. Hell, a conspiracy theorist would say the Eagles named Kolb the starter going into the season just to raise his market value before handing over the reigns to Vick.
 
I don't like Tom Brady...at all...however there is room for him on my dynasty and redraft leagues, and I can sit down and even though I hate the guy I can still appreciate his skills and his way of going about the game and see the value he brings in both FF and the NFL...obviously that doesn't apply to Vick for some reason. I know it's hard for people to digest some of what I am laying out but that doesn't make it wrong just because a lot of people in here don't like Michael Vick. The double standard in here is incredible to me.
Okay so you think Tom Brady and Michael Vick are comparable and thus should be viewed the same way?As a Team leader:Brady - 3 championships and 4 super bowl appearances.Vick - 0 and 0As an individual:Brady - Career - 111 wins 32 losses, 243 yds/game, 1.82 TD's per game, .7 ints/game.Vick - Career - 46 wins 32 losses, 182 yds/game, 1.16 TD's per game, .72 ints/game.Brady 2010 - 36 TD's, 4 ints, 3900 passing yardsVick 2010 - 21 TD's, 6 ints, 3018 passing yardsCharacter:Brady - Never Been in prisonVick - Served two years for gambling relating to dog fighting.I like Michael Vick and am rooting for him as a person and as a football player. But I think it is pretty clear why people might look at him and TomBrady differently. That doesn't bother me and it doesn't keep me from rooting for him. Why do people rooting against Vick bother you so much?
Wait...what? I was comparing the way I don't like Brady but I can still sit down and evaluate him honestly. I didn't say Vick was Brady. People are openly saying "I don't like Vick" and then go on to say he is 2 years out form being done...how can that be an unbiased evaluation? Thank you for posting all of Brady's accomplishments. This is a rough thread.
I think most people are evaluating Vick honestly. As a QB he had a major improvement in his play in 2010 and that made him one of the top QB's in the league. But as many people in this thread have pointed out, he has his negatives:-He is more injury prone, not because he is a running QB, but because he is a running QB who hasn't shown he knows how to avoid the big hit.-His play in the 2nd half of the season was not as good as the first half. Was that because he was playing better defenses, he was wearing down, defenses were figuring out how to defend him, or a combination of all three? unknown at this point.-Because of his criminal record, he is one bad act away from being banned from the league.If you take those negatives, combined with the uncertainty over what the next CBA will look like, it only makes sense for the Eagles to franchise him for one year to further evaluate what they have in Michael Vick.As for the people who say he is 2 years from being done, don't worry about whether they like him or not, argue with them about the merits of why they think he will be done in 2 years. Based on the hits he took this year while running and the injuries he suffered because of them, I would not be surprised if Vick suffered a career ending or career limiting injury in the next 2 years. That is why I hope he works on sliding and avoiding hits in the off-season.Thank you for correcting me on Vick's run stats. That should be factored into any QB comparison.
 
cobalt_27 said:
Deranged Hermit said:
What it comes down to for me is this: Vick is going to demand a 5-6 year contract worth probably 100 mil, give or take a few mil. IMO, I can't see him being able to play at a high level another 2 years (he'll be 31 this summer). As a fan of the team, I'd rather deal him for a 1st and rebuild my o-line to protect Kolb.
This absolutely would be my thought. All this talk about whether Kolb could garner a late-first or early second, who knows? But, the yield on Vick would be greater. And, honestly, I'd rather have a pocket passer who's on the young side of things, not injury-prone, not full of baggage, etc. Vick's talent ceiling is through the roof. But, I really suspect his ceiling for navigating a team successfully through the playoffs is less than Kolb's, given his injury risk and inconsistency.
I don't disagree that I'd rather keep Kolb and trade Vick. But looking at this from a business perspective, Vick is a money bonanza. The Eagles will be the most sought after team for prime time games next season. They'll be in the news. They'll be an international sensation. Jeffrey Lurie's eyes just turned into dollar signs.
Hell, a conspiracy theorist would say the Eagles named Kolb the starter going into the season just to raise his market value before handing over the reigns to Vick.
Unless you attended training camp and saw how sharp Kolb looked and how inaccurate Vick looked.
 
Hell, a conspiracy theorist would say the Eagles named Kolb the starter going into the season just to raise his market value before handing over the reigns to Vick.
Unless you attended training camp and saw how sharp Kolb looked and how inaccurate Vick looked.
Exactly. I didn't attend training camp, but watched the pre-season games. It is amazing that Vick had the season he had based on how bad he looked in the pre-season games.
 
cobalt_27 said:
Deranged Hermit said:
What it comes down to for me is this: Vick is going to demand a 5-6 year contract worth probably 100 mil, give or take a few mil. IMO, I can't see him being able to play at a high level another 2 years (he'll be 31 this summer). As a fan of the team, I'd rather deal him for a 1st and rebuild my o-line to protect Kolb.
This absolutely would be my thought. All this talk about whether Kolb could garner a late-first or early second, who knows? But, the yield on Vick would be greater. And, honestly, I'd rather have a pocket passer who's on the young side of things, not injury-prone, not full of baggage, etc. Vick's talent ceiling is through the roof. But, I really suspect his ceiling for navigating a team successfully through the playoffs is less than Kolb's, given his injury risk and inconsistency.
I don't disagree that I'd rather keep Kolb and trade Vick. But looking at this from a business perspective, Vick is a money bonanza. The Eagles will be the most sought after team for prime time games next season. They'll be in the news. They'll be an international sensation. Jeffrey Lurie's eyes just turned into dollar signs.
This is also a good reason to sign Vick to a long term deal. Keep the fan interest on a big attraction. Even if you don't with the SB with Vick, your team comes out ahead. Mucho pressure is off at this point in time. It makes the pot even sweeter if the Eagles can pile up the draft picks by trading Kolb in the process. Hell, a conspiracy theorist would say the Eagles named Kolb the starter going into the season just to raise his market value before handing over the reigns to Vick.
If by conspiracy theorist you mean someone who knows nothing at all about the Eagles or how their offseason went last year you'd be correct.
 
Here's what I want to know: why is Vick still getting crucified for killing dogs when your local animal shelter does it everyday, times a million with no backlash? Why aren't there as many topics about Ray Lewis or Donte Stallworth who allegedly or actually murdered people? PEOPLE. Not an animal who you already dominate and subject to your superiority. If you really gave a #### about your animal, you wouldn't be domesticating them--your just pumping up your ego. I'll even make the argument that you all are worse than Michael Vick. He watched dogs fight and kill each other and then put them out of their misery. You watch humans destroy each others lives every week for your entertainment and then ridicule them when their bodies have nothing left. Is it better to be a dog who gets killed or a human in utter pain for decade upon decade upon decade? Before you call Michael Vick a bad man you had better make sure you aren't bad yourself. The sadist calling the sadist sick.
* Animal shelters put down dogs humanely when there isn't anyone to take them. Vick electrocuted dogs and bashed them on concrete if they lost fights. If word got out that an animal shelter was doing that, you'd see similar backlash.* The dogs had no choice. They were bred to fight, were starved before fights to make them angrier and then killed violently if they lost fights. The humans choose to engage in that contact sport, can walk away at any time (ask Robert Smith) and get paid millions of dollars for their trouble* You can be "bad" and still recognize bad in others. I'm far from perfect and I make lots of mistakes. Sometimes I'm rude or mean to people who didn't really deserve it. But I've never thrown a dog on concrete until it died. I've never electrocuted an animal because it lost a bloody fight with another animal. I have no problem with Vick going out and earning a living. But I'm not obligated to forget about what happened. Vick apologists are going to have to accept that this will follow him for the rest of his life. Just about every story about him will include a reference to dogfighting. Too bad. Deal with it. It's not my place to "forgive" Vick. He didn't do anything to me. But to the extent that it matters, I do forgive him. He's paid a dear price and he will live with it for the rest of his life. I hope he goes on to do positive things with his life. If the experience has made him a better person, I'm glad for that.But just because I forgive doesn't mean I have to forget. It still happened. He didn't accidentally trip over a dog and kill it. He made a conscious decision to get into that lifestyle, invest in a kennel and take an active part in killing the losers. He went back time and time again. He wasn't nine years old or mentally challenged. he knew what he was doing, and he knew it was wrong because he tried to cover it up. No, I don't have to forget.The Eagles are smart to franchise Vick. He'll make a ton of money and they'll see if he's for real. If that insults him, he can play elsewhere in 2012.
This post deserves the "Spot on" Award and I agree 100% with this logic. By the sound of some of the nut job post in here, you should expect to get flamed for it.
 
Radio chatter says the Eagles' price for Kolb is a 1 or a 2 plus a 3 (maybe future). With the less-then-stellar QB reports coming from the Senior Bowl, KK's value should only go up.
For a guy who can't even earn a starting job on his own team? I'd be amazed if any team even gave up a 1.
:goodposting: Kolb is worth about a 3rd to the right team. Anything they get above that is a bonus. What's so great about Kolb? Have I skipped over his extensive resume? Is he even better than Shaun Hill?
Just when I give you props as the voice of reason, you throw out this.... :rolleyes:
 
Radio chatter says the Eagles' price for Kolb is a 1 or a 2 plus a 3 (maybe future). With the less-then-stellar QB reports coming from the Senior Bowl, KK's value should only go up.
For a guy who can't even earn a starting job on his own team? I'd be amazed if any team even gave up a 1.
:goodposting: Kolb is worth about a 3rd to the right team. Anything they get above that is a bonus. What's so great about Kolb? Have I skipped over his extensive resume? Is he even better than Shaun Hill?
Just when I give you props as the voice of reason, you throw out this.... :rolleyes:
Why are you rolling your eyes? What has Kolb done? He had 2 good games, 2 years ago against 2 pitiful teams. He looked lost and just bad when he got a chance to play this season. Kolb hasn't proven anything and he certainly isn't worth a 1st. It's questionable if he is worth a 2nd. but I'm guessing most QB-needy teams would be willing to pay a 2nd. The question is whether or not a 2nd is worth more to the Eagles than a cheap backup. I'm guessing it's not. Kolb will be an Eagle in 2011.
 
Radio chatter says the Eagles' price for Kolb is a 1 or a 2 plus a 3 (maybe future). With the less-then-stellar QB reports coming from the Senior Bowl, KK's value should only go up.
For a guy who can't even earn a starting job on his own team? I'd be amazed if any team even gave up a 1.
:thumbup: Kolb is worth about a 3rd to the right team. Anything they get above that is a bonus. What's so great about Kolb? Have I skipped over his extensive resume? Is he even better than Shaun Hill?
Just when I give you props as the voice of reason, you throw out this.... :rolleyes:
Why are you rolling your eyes? What has Kolb done? He had 2 good games, 2 years ago against 2 pitiful teams. He looked lost and just bad when he got a chance to play this season. Kolb hasn't proven anything and he certainly isn't worth a 1st. It's questionable if he is worth a 2nd. but I'm guessing most QB-needy teams would be willing to pay a 2nd. The question is whether or not a 2nd is worth more to the Eagles than a cheap backup. I'm guessing it's not. Kolb will be an Eagle in 2011.
He played a pretty solid game in Atlanta this year? 23 for 29 3TD's, 1 pick - 133 QB rating - Eagles won 31-17I think he was named NFC offensive player of the weekPitt was the only other team to beat Atlanta this year BTW
 

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