Ebola (1 Viewer)

[Apple Jack]

Ebola isn't the joke. The predictably paranoid are the joke. That should go without saying.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I'm more surprised that these doctors, who are being so selfless by going over there to help people and putting themselves in harm's way, don't apply the same mindset when coming back before kissing their girlfriends or spending a night with friends. It just seems so inconsistent.

Nobody's girlfriend or family member has been infected. Just the health workers who had direct contact with Ebola patients or specimens. The doctor monitoring temperature and symptoms is 100% the proper protocol. You're not contagious until symptoms manifest, so he likely was not contagious while bowling. Should you maybe not take public transit or go out of feeling rundown within 21 days of handling Ebola poop? Probably, but probably not necessary either.

He spiked 103 fever Thursday morning... I find it hard to believe he wasn't infectious Wednesday night.

 

[Apple Jack]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

I believe the line as long as there is a clear distinction between no symptoms and symptoms. But if the person can be confusing their normal "feeling kinda run down" at the end of a long workday, with the very initial onset of Ebola symptoms, that's obviously an issue. I am completely ignorant on that though, maybe this hits you like a ton of bricks.

They don't know for sure. Ebola, and especially this strain of ebola, has a lot of unknown quantities. Do I believe it's very unlikely to get it from an asymptomatic person? Yes.

They are trying to calm the public down, and there is probably some merit in that. People are freaking out that this doctor went to the bowling alley, that the nurse rode on the plane, etc. But what harm is there in saying "it's unlikely that it can be spread if you are asymptomatic."

And what would cause you to disregard what the doctors and scientists who have studied and observed the virus up close are telling you about it?

 

[matuski]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

I believe the line as long as there is a clear distinction between no symptoms and symptoms. But if the person can be confusing their normal "feeling kinda run down" at the end of a long workday, with the very initial onset of Ebola symptoms, that's obviously an issue. I am completely ignorant on that though, maybe this hits you like a ton of bricks.

They don't know for sure. Ebola, and especially this strain of ebola, has a lot of unknown quantities. Do I believe it's very unlikely to get it from an asymptomatic person? Yes.

They are trying to calm the public down, and there is probably some merit in that. People are freaking out that this doctor went to the bowling alley, that the nurse rode on the plane, etc. But what harm is there in saying "it's unlikely that it can be spread if you are asymptomatic."

And what would cause you to disregard what the doctors and scientists who have studied and observed the virus up close are telling you about it?

Fear of course.

 

[shader]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

I believe the line as long as there is a clear distinction between no symptoms and symptoms. But if the person can be confusing their normal "feeling kinda run down" at the end of a long workday, with the very initial onset of Ebola symptoms, that's obviously an issue. I am completely ignorant on that though, maybe this hits you like a ton of bricks.

They don't know for sure. Ebola, and especially this strain of ebola, has a lot of unknown quantities. Do I believe it's very unlikely to get it from an asymptomatic person? Yes.

They are trying to calm the public down, and there is probably some merit in that. People are freaking out that this doctor went to the bowling alley, that the nurse rode on the plane, etc. But what harm is there in saying "it's unlikely that it can be spread if you are asymptomatic."

And what would cause you to disregard what the doctors and scientists who have studied and observed the virus up close are telling you about it?

I'm not disregarding it.

 

[Swing 51]

I'm more surprised that these doctors, who are being so selfless by going over there to help people and putting themselves in harm's way, don't apply the same mindset when coming back before kissing their girlfriends or spending a night with friends. It just seems so inconsistent.

Nobody's girlfriend or family member has been infected. Just the health workers who had direct contact with Ebola patients or specimens. The doctor monitoring temperature and symptoms is 100% the proper protocol. You're not contagious until symptoms manifest, so he likely was not contagious while bowling. Should you maybe not take public transit or go out of feeling rundown within 21 days of handling Ebola poop? Probably, but probably not necessary either.

He spiked 103 fever Thursday morning... I find it hard to believe he wasn't infectious Wednesday night.

Spencer registered a fever of 100.3 degrees between 10 a.m. and 11 a.m. Thursday, New York health officials said. Initial reports that his temperature was 103 degrees were incorrect, Cuomo told Fox 5 News on Friday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/new-york-physician-who-worked-in-guinea-tests-positive-for-ebola/2014/10/24/f61499f8-5b58-11e4-8264-deed989ae9a2_story.html

 

[timschochet]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

Why not?

Why not what? Why not believe that asymptomatic carriers can't spread Ebola? Or are you doubtful/curious and asking for the reasons asymptomatic carriers can't spread Ebola?

we are being told this by people who have devoted their lives to the study and prevention of infectious diseases. They are heroes in my book, always have been. I find it absurd that I should distrust these guys in favor of conspiracy theorists.

 

[Doug B]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

Of course I don't believe that. Why would I?

There are many sources -- here is what WHO has to say:

4. What are typical signs and symptoms of infection?Sudden onset of fever, intense weakness, muscle pain, headache and sore throat are typical signs and symptoms. This is followed by vomiting, diarrhoea, rash, impaired kidney and liver function, and in some cases, both internal and external bleeding.

Laboratory findings include low white blood cell and platelet counts, and elevated liver enzymes.

The incubation period, or the time interval from infection to onset of symptoms, is from 2 to 21 days. The patients become contagious once they begin to show symptoms. They are not contagious during the incubation period.

Ebola virus disease infections can only be confirmed through laboratory testing.

Now, if you just think health authorities and others are just BSing the public, well, there's no response to that. You gotta believe what you gotta believe, I guess.

 

[matuski]

I'm more surprised that these doctors, who are being so selfless by going over there to help people and putting themselves in harm's way, don't apply the same mindset when coming back before kissing their girlfriends or spending a night with friends. It just seems so inconsistent.

Nobody's girlfriend or family member has been infected. Just the health workers who had direct contact with Ebola patients or specimens. The doctor monitoring temperature and symptoms is 100% the proper protocol. You're not contagious until symptoms manifest, so he likely was not contagious while bowling. Should you maybe not take public transit or go out of feeling rundown within 21 days of handling Ebola poop? Probably, but probably not necessary either.

He spiked 103 fever Thursday morning... I find it hard to believe he wasn't infectious Wednesday night.

The symptoms are the pathway for infecting others, I'm not sure how this can be confusing.

Not even the symptoms, but specifically the later stage symptoms.

Fever doesn't spread the disease.

 

[Doug B]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

I believe the line as long as there is a clear distinction between no symptoms and symptoms. But if the person can be confusing their normal "feeling kinda run down" at the end of a long workday, with the very initial onset of Ebola symptoms, that's obviously an issue. I am completely ignorant on that though, maybe this hits you like a ton of bricks.

They don't know for sure. Ebola, and especially this strain of ebola, has a lot of unknown quantities. Do I believe it's very unlikely to get it from an asymptomatic person? Yes.

I don't believe the bolded to be true -- this is an illness that's been studied and treated since the 1970s. And I don't believe they're seeing some kind of new strain. If you can source the bolded, I would like to learn more.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

I believe this. But it's not a black and white issue. The problem, for me, is the gray area. People don't go from not sick to sick instantaneously. At what point does it become contagious? I've gone to work before thinking I was just slightly under the weather, then had to leave early because it turned out I had the flu.

This is also a mental nag that I share. I don't worry at all about the gray area around the onset of the fever, though. I worry about the very early coughing and sneezing. However, I rationalize that by telling myself I'd have to both be very close and fairly gross (e.g. getting sneezed on and then not washing up immediately) to have any risk of contraction.

From what I can gather from Ebola, it does seem to come on very fast. From no fever (?) Wednesday night to a 103o fever 12-16 hours later is pretty damn rapid. That gray area probably exists, but it seems to be a tiny target.

I think you're missing my point. When you say "no fever" Wednesday night, I'm saying that he could have been sick for that whole day. That's the gray area. He may have had a fever and not known it.

 

[shader]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

Of course I don't believe that. Why would I?

There are many sources -- here is what WHO has to say:

4. What are typical signs and symptoms of infection?Sudden onset of fever, intense weakness, muscle pain, headache and sore throat are typical signs and symptoms. This is followed by vomiting, diarrhoea, rash, impaired kidney and liver function, and in some cases, both internal and external bleeding.

Laboratory findings include low white blood cell and platelet counts, and elevated liver enzymes.

The incubation period, or the time interval from infection to onset of symptoms, is from 2 to 21 days. The patients become contagious once they begin to show symptoms. They are not contagious during the incubation period.

Ebola virus disease infections can only be confirmed through laboratory testing.

Now, if you just think health authorities and others are just BSing the public, well, there's no response to that. You gotta believe what you gotta believe, I guess.

So lets say your wife went to West Africa to treat people. Let's imagine that she came back and was fine. You had sex and then the next day she got sick, went to the hospital and was diagnosed with ebola.

Would you be 100% sure that you were in the clear?

 

[Doug B]

But what harm is there in saying "it's unlikely that it can be spread if you are asymptomatic."

Because people tend to treat tiny risks exactly the same as they treat certainties.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

Of course I don't believe that. Why would I?

There are many sources -- here is what WHO has to say:

4. What are typical signs and symptoms of infection?Sudden onset of fever, intense weakness, muscle pain, headache and sore throat are typical signs and symptoms. This is followed by vomiting, diarrhoea, rash, impaired kidney and liver function, and in some cases, both internal and external bleeding.

Laboratory findings include low white blood cell and platelet counts, and elevated liver enzymes.

The incubation period, or the time interval from infection to onset of symptoms, is from 2 to 21 days. The patients become contagious once they begin to show symptoms. They are not contagious during the incubation period.

Ebola virus disease infections can only be confirmed through laboratory testing.

Now, if you just think health authorities and others are just BSing the public, well, there's no response to that. You gotta believe what you gotta believe, I guess.

What are you guys arguing? I haven't seen one person disagree with you on this?

 

[shader]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

I believe the line as long as there is a clear distinction between no symptoms and symptoms. But if the person can be confusing their normal "feeling kinda run down" at the end of a long workday, with the very initial onset of Ebola symptoms, that's obviously an issue. I am completely ignorant on that though, maybe this hits you like a ton of bricks.

They don't know for sure. Ebola, and especially this strain of ebola, has a lot of unknown quantities. Do I believe it's very unlikely to get it from an asymptomatic person? Yes.

I don't believe the bolded to be true -- this is an illness that's been studied and treated since the 1970s. And I don't believe they're seeing some kind of new strain. If you can source the bolded, I would like to learn more.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-lab-samples-yield-questions-as-well-as-answers/

I'm no expert for sure Doug, so all I can do is search google. But from what I've read there are still a lot of things to be learned.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

I believe the line as long as there is a clear distinction between no symptoms and symptoms. But if the person can be confusing their normal "feeling kinda run down" at the end of a long workday, with the very initial onset of Ebola symptoms, that's obviously an issue. I am completely ignorant on that though, maybe this hits you like a ton of bricks.

They don't know for sure. Ebola, and especially this strain of ebola, has a lot of unknown quantities. Do I believe it's very unlikely to get it from an asymptomatic person? Yes.

I don't believe the bolded to be true -- this is an illness that's been studied and treated since the 1970s. And I don't believe they're seeing some kind of new strain. If you can source the bolded, I would like to learn more.

I actually thought this was a new strain...not sure about the source of information though. Might have been wrapped around the hysteria that this could become airborne ... something about each outbreak being a slightly mutated version of prior outbreaks

 

[3C's]

Good chance an MD doesn't know he has a fever.

 

[Doug B]

He spiked 103 fever Thursday morning... I find it hard to believe he wasn't infectious Wednesday night.

Depends on whether or not Spencer was coughing and sneezing or not. The onset of the fever alone is not a particular danger, because it ca't be spread by touching stuff like a cold can.

There was no danger at all from bowling shoes, bowling ball, common contact surfaces, etc. Drinking after him would have been problematic. Handling the top of his empty beer bottle, and then immediately licking your fingers ... that's problematic.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Personally, I don't think that's what Sheik is saying.

I think it's more "They should quarantine for 21 hours, if they display symptoms get properly medivac'd out to a US hospital prepared for it and treated.

Yes. You are correct. Minus the mistake of putting hours instead of days. And I've stated this a couple of times in this thread. Amazingly, if we would have done it the way I've suggested, we wouldn't have had an infected doctor walking around NYC, riding subways and going bowling.

I'm not saying they shouldn't come back. Just seems irresponsible to have someone handling Ebola patients just be allowed to come back to the US and mingle within the population until they do or do not develop the disease themselves.

Ah - the old guilty until proven innocent, eh?

What a strange comment.

You are asking someone to give up 21 days of their life, without any indication that they are a risk to others. You are essentially saying we are going to assume you have ebola until you prove otherwise.

You mean besides having treated people with an infectious disease?

I'm not saying a quarantine is necessarily worth it -- I'm not qualified to even have an opinion on that. But this isn't a "personal liberty" issue.

Treating people with an infection does not equate to contracting the disease. You are making assumptions about a person, not supported by the facts.

If someone is symptomatic, then yes, they should be quarantined. If this was a case where people were contagious for a period before showing symptoms, I would be ok with quarantines. Based on what we know now, simply putting someone in quarantine who has been in contact with a ebola patient is not warranted - just like its not necessary to quarantine someone who has come in contact with an HIV patient, or a flu patient, or any other contagious disease patient.

Apparently they're quarantining people who came into contact with this doctor even though they haven't shown any symptoms. Epidemiologists who actually understand how this works seem to think that quarantines are warranted.

 

[shader]

But what harm is there in saying "it's unlikely that it can be spread if you are asymptomatic."

Because people tend to treat tiny risks exactly the same as they treat certainties.

That is irrelevant. I'm not talking about what you tell the public to quell the fear.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Good chance an MD doesn't know he has a fever.

Yes. Because every doctor knows immediately when their temperature is no longer 98.6. Excellent point.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Personally, I don't think that's what Sheik is saying.

I think it's more "They should quarantine for 21 hours, if they display symptoms get properly medivac'd out to a US hospital prepared for it and treated.

Yes. You are correct. Minus the mistake of putting hours instead of days. And I've stated this a couple of times in this thread. Amazingly, if we would have done it the way I've suggested, we wouldn't have had an infected doctor walking around NYC, riding subways and going bowling.

I'm not saying they shouldn't come back. Just seems irresponsible to have someone handling Ebola patients just be allowed to come back to the US and mingle within the population until they do or do not develop the disease themselves.

Ah - the old guilty until proven innocent, eh?

What a strange comment.

You are asking someone to give up 21 days of their life, without any indication that they are a risk to others. You are essentially saying we are going to assume you have ebola until you prove otherwise.

You mean besides having treated people with an infectious disease?

I'm not saying a quarantine is necessarily worth it -- I'm not qualified to even have an opinion on that. But this isn't a "personal liberty" issue.

Treating people with an infection does not equate to contracting the disease. You are making assumptions about a person, not supported by the facts.

If someone is symptomatic, then yes, they should be quarantined. If this was a case where people were contagious for a period before showing symptoms, I would be ok with quarantines. Based on what we know now, simply putting someone in quarantine who has been in contact with a ebola patient is not warranted - just like its not necessary to quarantine someone who has come in contact with an HIV patient, or a flu patient, or any other contagious disease patient.

Apparently they're quarantining people who came into contact with this doctor even though they haven't shown any symptoms. Epidemiologists who actually understand how this works seem to think that quarantines are warranted.

Big deal. The FFA knows better than them.

 

[Doug B]

I think you're missing my point. When you say "no fever" Wednesday night, I'm saying that he could have been sick for that whole day. That's the gray area. He may have had a fever and not known it.

Ah, OK. Well, the fever kind of doesn't count -- it does nothing to get the virus out of the body, as matsuki points out.

It's when coughing and sneezing starts that the virus gets outside of the body. Without coughing and sneezing, an early-fever ebola carrier can't spread the illness through touching things. No doorknob/faucet transmissions, nothing like that.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Personally, I don't think that's what Sheik is saying.

I think it's more "They should quarantine for 21 hours, if they display symptoms get properly medivac'd out to a US hospital prepared for it and treated.

Yes. You are correct. Minus the mistake of putting hours instead of days. And I've stated this a couple of times in this thread. Amazingly, if we would have done it the way I've suggested, we wouldn't have had an infected doctor walking around NYC, riding subways and going bowling.

I'm not saying they shouldn't come back. Just seems irresponsible to have someone handling Ebola patients just be allowed to come back to the US and mingle within the population until they do or do not develop the disease themselves.

Ah - the old guilty until proven innocent, eh?

What a strange comment.

You are asking someone to give up 21 days of their life, without any indication that they are a risk to others. You are essentially saying we are going to assume you have ebola until you prove otherwise.

You mean besides having treated people with an infectious disease?

I'm not saying a quarantine is necessarily worth it -- I'm not qualified to even have an opinion on that. But this isn't a "personal liberty" issue.

Treating people with an infection does not equate to contracting the disease. You are making assumptions about a person, not supported by the facts.

If someone is symptomatic, then yes, they should be quarantined. If this was a case where people were contagious for a period before showing symptoms, I would be ok with quarantines. Based on what we know now, simply putting someone in quarantine who has been in contact with a ebola patient is not warranted - just like its not necessary to quarantine someone who has come in contact with an HIV patient, or a flu patient, or any other contagious disease patient.

Apparently they're quarantining people who came into contact with this doctor even though they haven't shown any symptoms. Epidemiologists who actually understand how this works seem to think that quarantines are warranted.

It is certainly the safest course of action, but is it warranted? How many people have been quarantined, and how many have subsequently been found to be infected?

 

[Harry Manback]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

I believe this. But it's not a black and white issue. The problem, for me, is the gray area. People don't go from not sick to sick instantaneously. At what point does it become contagious? I've gone to work before thinking I was just slightly under the weather, then had to leave early because it turned out I had the flu.

I'll go on record here again as saying I don't think we'll see a huge outbreak from 1 person to thousands in the U.S. But unless we figure out a way to fight this, the spread is real. It may not kill a million people, but there's a very good chance it could kill a bunch. Should we be panicking? No. Should we be worried? Yeah, I think so. I think anyone who is playing Ebola off like it's a joke is as ridiculous as the people who think the US will see an outbreak before Christmas.

When they begin oozing bodily fluids...ie: Sweating, puking, diarrhea'ing etc.

Once the fever hits your sweat, saliva, urine, semen, blood etc is contagious.

 

[shadyridr]

BTW I just wanna say I agree 100% with EVERYTHING Shiek said in this thread. He is spot on.

 

[Doug B]

So lets say your wife went to West Africa to treat people. Let's imagine that she came back and was fine. You had sex and then the next day she got sick, went to the hospital and was diagnosed with ebola.

Would you be 100% sure that you were in the clear?

I'm human -- I'd absolutely be worried. Still, I'd be astonished to actually catch ebola that way -- I'd have had the sex while she was fine under your hypothetical.

You want to change the hypothetical a tad to get me truly worried? Postulate that she sneezed in my direction a few times during the deed. Changes the game completely for me.

 

[jamny]

I'm more surprised that these doctors, who are being so selfless by going over there to help people and putting themselves in harm's way, don't apply the same mindset when coming back before kissing their girlfriends or spending a night with friends. It just seems so inconsistent.

Because it's currently accepted as iron-clad fact that ebola cannot be spread by a asymptomatic carrier. If new information ever comes in to change that understanding, hopefully behaviors will change as well.

Amber Vinson's fellow passengers flying from Cleveland to Dallas were Test Case 1. The Uber riders and Craig Spencer's bowling buddies in NYC will be Test Case 2. Will an asymptomatic Ebola patient ever spread the virus to another person thgough social means a la colds and flu? Stay tuned.

I think Case 1 was Duncan's family and it was a very good sign when none of them came down with it. The doctors friend is a concern but nothing proven yet. But I still go along with a mandatory 21 self-quarantine in a case like this.

 

[3C's]

Good chance an MD doesn't know he has a fever.

Yes. Because every doctor knows immediately when their temperature is no longer 98.6. Excellent point.

I know when my temp is higher than normal. Not rocket science.

 

[shader]

I think you're missing my point. When you say "no fever" Wednesday night, I'm saying that he could have been sick for that whole day. That's the gray area. He may have had a fever and not known it.

Ah, OK. Well, the fever kind of doesn't count -- it does nothing to get the virus out of the body, as matsuki points out.

It's when coughing and sneezing starts that the virus gets outside of the body. Without coughing and sneezing, an early-fever ebola carrier can't spread the illness through touching things. No doorknob/faucet transmissions, nothing like that.

I cough every day. It doesn't mean I'm sick. Maybe I have an abnormally itchy throat.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think you're missing my point. When you say "no fever" Wednesday night, I'm saying that he could have been sick for that whole day. That's the gray area. He may have had a fever and not known it.

Ah, OK. Well, the fever kind of doesn't count -- it does nothing to get the virus out of the body, as matsuki points out.

It's when coughing and sneezing starts that the virus gets outside of the body. Without coughing and sneezing, an early-fever ebola carrier can't spread the illness through touching things. No doorknob/faucet transmissions, nothing like that.

You're talking in absolutes again, GB. This could be my fault, so let me try to explain my point a little better. I'll use this doctor as an example. He could have sneezed a couple of times yesterday, or coughed onto his hand and then shook someone else's hand. There are many times that people get sick, but don't realize they are sick right away. I can go one step further and say during the Fall, I sneeze and cough a lot. And most of the time, I'm not actually sick. So these aren't really symptoms of anything. In fact, if you asked me if I sneezed or coughed yesterday, I couldn't tell you. But I probably did. Now, if I got sick today, my first thought wouldn't be, "Hmmm... I did have some symptoms yesterday." It just doesn't work that way.

Than gray period could be a day long, where you have a fever and are starting to get symptoms. But you're not aware of it. Again, I don't think anything will come of this. This time. But it will happen.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Good chance an MD doesn't know he has a fever.

Yes. Because every doctor knows immediately when their temperature is no longer 98.6. Excellent point.

I know when my temp is higher than normal. Not rocket science.

Congratulations?

 

[shadyridr]

I have one question. I keep seeing people saying its not airborne but that its transfered via bodily fluids. Isnt saliva a bodily fluid. If someone with ebola sneezes on you doesnt that mean its airborne?

 

[Harry Manback]

I have one question. I keep seeing people saying its not airborne but that its transfered via bodily fluids. Isnt saliva a bodily fluid. If someone with ebola sneezes on you doesnt that mean its airborne?

I don't think so, because the virus is still in the bodily fluid.

If the virus is in your body, and you get on a plane, is it airborne? The virus itself cannot move through the air without the aid of another vehicle.

 

[shader]

I have one question. I keep seeing people saying its not airborne but that its transfered via bodily fluids. Isnt saliva a bodily fluid. If someone with ebola sneezes on you doesnt that mean its airborne?

This is part of the problem. The confusion over "airborne". It is theoretically possible for it to spread through the air. But it would probably require two things: First, the sneezer to be carrying a large portion of the ebola virus (so they'd be really sick), and second they would need to sneeze in a very close proximity to you. I can't remember the last time someone (other than my kid) has sneezed in my face.

But airborne in the sense of "this virus is going to infect everyone on the plane through the air conditioning system"...that's not gonna happen with ebola, and honestly I don't know that there are very many viruses at all that can be transmitted that easily. (could be wrong on that)

 

[Doug B]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

I believe the line as long as there is a clear distinction between no symptoms and symptoms. But if the person can be confusing their normal "feeling kinda run down" at the end of a long workday, with the very initial onset of Ebola symptoms, that's obviously an issue. I am completely ignorant on that though, maybe this hits you like a ton of bricks.

They don't know for sure. Ebola, and especially this strain of ebola, has a lot of unknown quantities. Do I believe it's very unlikely to get it from an asymptomatic person? Yes.

I don't believe the bolded to be true -- this is an illness that's been studied and treated since the 1970s. And I don't believe they're seeing some kind of new strain. If you can source the bolded, I would like to learn more.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-lab-samples-yield-questions-as-well-as-answers/

I'm no expert for sure Doug, so all I can do is search google. But from what I've read there are still a lot of things to be learned.

Thanks for the link. The first 2/3 of that CBS News article summarizes an article I had posted a link to Wednesday in this thread. That particular article made me feel pretty good about the unlikelihood of free-&-easy ebola transmission, personally.

The end of the article you just linked is interesting -- it's a crib of a NYT opinion written by a reseacher:

A New York Times opinion piece from early September by Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, suggested that it would not surprise many virologists if Ebola were eventually to mutate and become airborne -- an alarming possibility that would put millions of lives at risk."Viruses like Ebola are notoriously sloppy in replicating, meaning the virus entering one person may be genetically different from the virus entering the next," Osterholm wrote. "The current Ebola virus's hyper-evolution is unprecedented; there has been more human-to-human transmission in the past four months than most likely occurred in the last 500 to 1,000 years. Each new infection represents trillions of throws of the genetic dice."

So, OK. I have to rationalize and downplay that risk mentally -- gotta admit that up front.

Anyway, this I know -- the next easy-to-spread Ebola strain to go airborne will be the first one. Yes, while every new infection is "trillions of dice rolls", there have been quadrillions of dice rolls since the mid 1970s, and the airborne version hasn't come up yet.

I believe -- but don't know -- that Osterholm would hedge his words heavily if asked about ebola mutation into an air-spread strain today. He may not have meant to imply it was a genetic piece-of-cake -- that it wasn't considered an eventuality, just something that was conceivable.

Also, I did read an article about the difficulty of ebola mutating into a airborne strain elsewhere within the last few days ... gotta track that down and link it here.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

:JESUSWEPT: the ignorance of supposedly very educated people infecting others. mind Numbing!

 

[dhockster]

Good chance an MD doesn't know he has a fever.

Yes. Because every doctor knows immediately when their temperature is no longer 98.6. Excellent point.

I know when my temp is higher than normal. Not rocket science.

Are you a doctor?

 

[Swing 51]

Put it out on the table, everyone:

Do you or do you not believe the official line re: ebola: "No symptoms, no spread "?

I believe the line as long as there is a clear distinction between no symptoms and symptoms. But if the person can be confusing their normal "feeling kinda run down" at the end of a long workday, with the very initial onset of Ebola symptoms, that's obviously an issue. I am completely ignorant on that though, maybe this hits you like a ton of bricks.

They don't know for sure. Ebola, and especially this strain of ebola, has a lot of unknown quantities. Do I believe it's very unlikely to get it from an asymptomatic person? Yes.

I don't believe the bolded to be true -- this is an illness that's been studied and treated since the 1970s. And I don't believe they're seeing some kind of new strain. If you can source the bolded, I would like to learn more.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-lab-samples-yield-questions-as-well-as-answers/

I'm no expert for sure Doug, so all I can do is search google. But from what I've read there are still a lot of things to be learned.

Thanks for the link. The first 2/3 of that CBS News article summarizes an article I had posted a link to Wednesday in this thread. That particular article made me feel pretty good about the unlikelihood of free-&-easy ebola transmission, personally.

The end of the article you just linked is interesting -- it's a crib of a NYT opinion written by a reseacher:

A New York Times opinion piece from early September by Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, suggested that it would not surprise many virologists if Ebola were eventually to mutate and become airborne -- an alarming possibility that would put millions of lives at risk."Viruses like Ebola are notoriously sloppy in replicating, meaning the virus entering one person may be genetically different from the virus entering the next," Osterholm wrote. "The current Ebola virus's hyper-evolution is unprecedented; there has been more human-to-human transmission in the past four months than most likely occurred in the last 500 to 1,000 years. Each new infection represents trillions of throws of the genetic dice."

Also, I did read an article about the difficulty of ebola mutating into a airborne strain elsewhere within the last few days ... gotta track that down and link it here.

I've read a similar article and am surprised Osterholm would say "it would not surprise many virologists if Ebola were eventually to mutate and become airborne -- an alarming possibility that would put millions of lives at risk."

From what I've been reading virologists would be very surprised if this went airborne.

 

[Apple Jack]

:JESUSWEPT: the ignorance of supposedly very educated people infecting others. mind Numbing!

link?

 

[Swing 51]

Just saw a crawl. He tested positive for Ebola

damn it. I thought I was going to be done.

Deceased: Thomas Duncan

Need an update as Pham is good to go

 

[Doug B]

Apparently they're quarantining people who came into contact with this doctor even though they haven't shown any symptoms. Epidemiologists who actually understand how this works seem to think that quarantines are warranted.

Self-monitoring symptoms (with 12-hr call-ins to medical staff), or quarantines? Also, what level of contact are we talking here? Girlfriend makes sense. Bowling alley patrons? Uber riders?

 

[3C's]

Good chance an MD doesn't know he has a fever.

Yes. Because every doctor knows immediately when their temperature is no longer 98.6. Excellent point.

I know when my temp is higher than normal. Not rocket science.

Congratulations?

It's like a gift I suppose. One that I apparently share with almost everyone other than you. Sorry nature was so unkind.

 

[3C's]

Good chance an MD doesn't know he has a fever.

Yes. Because every doctor knows immediately when their temperature is no longer 98.6. Excellent point.

I know when my temp is higher than normal. Not rocket science.

Are you a doctor?

No but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.

 

[dhockster]

Good chance an MD doesn't know he has a fever.

Yes. Because every doctor knows immediately when their temperature is no longer 98.6. Excellent point.

I know when my temp is higher than normal. Not rocket science.

Are you a doctor?

No but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.

Nice. To your original point, being a doctor has nothing to do with your ability to know when you have a fever.

 

[urbanhack]

http://www.vox.com/cards/ebola-facts-you-need-to-know/ebola-virus-isnt-easily-spread-not-airborne-how-do-you-get-ebola#E6821212

 

[TheIronSheik]

Good chance an MD doesn't know he has a fever.

Yes. Because every doctor knows immediately when their temperature is no longer 98.6. Excellent point.

I know when my temp is higher than normal. Not rocket science.

Congratulations?

It's like a gift I suppose. One that I apparently share with almost everyone other than you. Sorry nature was so unkind.

Yes. Everyone knows when their temperature hits 98.7. You are truly a genius.

 

[Fennis]

One of NYC Doc's friends admitted to hospital?

The one person I am concerned about is his wife. Unfortunately, they don't release data like this, but If I had to bet, I would say the odds are he is the only one of the 9 US patients who had sex with a partner post infection, pre-symptoms.

 

[matuski]

Good chance an MD doesn't know he has a fever.

He was self monitoring, knowing he was at risk.

He was taking his own temperature twice a day.

 

[Fennis]

Just saw a crawl. He tested positive for Ebola

damn it. I thought I was going to be done.

Deceased: Thomas Duncan

Need an update as Pham is good to go

Wow, Pham and Vinson sure recovered quickly.

Ebola patients treated in US: 9

Patients Infected in Africa: 7

Patients infected in US: 2

Non health care workers infected in US: 0

Patients released: 7

Patients under treatment: 1

Deceased: 1

Current mortality rate of Americans treated in US: 0%.

Current mortality rate of all treated in US: 11%

Cured: Nina Pham (nurse of Duncan); Amber Vinson (nurse of Duncan); Ashoka Mukpo (cameraman), Unidentified Aid Worker (AKA CIA), Dr. Kent Brantley , Dr. Rick Sacra, Nancy Writebol

Under treatment: Dr. Craig Spencer (the bowling, uber riding, hipster, doctors without border doctor)

Deceased: Thomas Duncan