Edward Snowden poll (5/20/14): Hero or Traitor? (1 Viewer)

[StrikeS2k]

Probably not a coincidence that those of us with a military background, whether it's me and Dr Detroit or John Kerry, largely think Ed Snowden is a douchecanoe.

I watched last night and I haven't changed my mind. I still don't buy his take on the active "suppression of valid concerns" either. One can only assume he expressed concerns about active programs that are currently considered part of NSA's mandated mission, and was told tough ####.

I tip my hat to you all for keeping it relatively civil as I tried mostly in vain to express my thoughts. This is a fanboy thread and I've had my day on the hot seat, probably ticked off enough people for a while, so I bid you adieu.

So you're contending that ANYONE with a military background think Snowden is a #####? Or just those who you hand picked that happen to agree with you?

 

[JZilla]

Probably not a coincidence that those of us with a military background, whether it's me and Dr Detroit or John Kerry, largely think Ed Snowden is a douchecanoe.

I watched last night and I haven't changed my mind. I still don't buy his take on the active "suppression of valid concerns" either. One can only assume he expressed concerns about active programs that are currently considered part of NSA's mandated mission, and was told tough ####.

I tip my hat to you all for keeping it relatively civil as I tried mostly in vain to express my thoughts. This is a fanboy thread and I've had my day on the hot seat, probably ticked off enough people for a while, so I bid you adieu.

So you're contending that ANYONE with a military background think Snowden is a #####? Or just those who you hand picked that happen to agree with you?

I said largely

 

[StrikeS2k]

Probably not a coincidence that those of us with a military background, whether it's me and Dr Detroit or John Kerry, largely think Ed Snowden is a douchecanoe.

I watched last night and I haven't changed my mind. I still don't buy his take on the active "suppression of valid concerns" either. One can only assume he expressed concerns about active programs that are currently considered part of NSA's mandated mission, and was told tough ####.

I tip my hat to you all for keeping it relatively civil as I tried mostly in vain to express my thoughts. This is a fanboy thread and I've had my day on the hot seat, probably ticked off enough people for a while, so I bid you adieu.

So you're contending that ANYONE with a military background think Snowden is a #####? Or just those who you hand picked that happen to agree with you?

I said largely

Your placement of the word largely doesn't really go with the context you're implying here. You might have said "Many (or Most) with a Military background think he's a.......Where you put the word largely could mean other things. Regardless, do you have anything to suggest that a significant portion of the military community agrees with you?

 

[fatness]

Daniel Ellsberg chimes in

But when I finally heard my lawyer ask the prearranged question in direct examination – Why did you copy the Pentagon Papers? – I was silenced before I could begin to answer. The government prosecutor objected – irrelevant – and the judge sustained. My lawyer, exasperated, said he "had never heard of a case where a defendant was not permitted to tell the jury why he did what he did." The judge responded: well, you're hearing one now.

And so it has been with every subsequent whistleblower under indictment, and so it would be if Edward Snowden was on trial in an American courtroom now.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act

Worth repeating.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

You might be amazed by some of the judges on the FISA court.

We have a local federal judge who, it was just reported, is actually on the FISA court. It was mentioned in the article because, well, he said, in relation to a matter totally unrelated to FISA issues, paraphrasing, "I'm really not a big fan of the First Amendment."

Nice, huh?

 

[Tackling Dummies]

I'm a military vet and completely support Snowden.

 

[timschochet]

Probably not a coincidence that those of us with a military background, whether it's me and Dr Detroit or John Kerry, largely think Ed Snowden is a douchecanoe.

I watched last night and I haven't changed my mind. I still don't buy his take on the active "suppression of valid concerns" either. One can only assume he expressed concerns about active programs that are currently considered part of NSA's mandated mission, and was told tough ####.

I tip my hat to you all for keeping it relatively civil as I tried mostly in vain to express my not-so-popular opinion. This is a fanboy thread and I've had my day on the hot seat, probably ticked off enough people for a while, so I bid you adieu.

I guess it depends on who you are. When I made several of the exact same arguments as you a few months back, I was treated to insult after insult.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Probably not a coincidence that those of us with a military background, whether it's me and Dr Detroit or John Kerry, largely think Ed Snowden is a douchecanoe.

I watched last night and I haven't changed my mind. I still don't buy his take on the active "suppression of valid concerns" either. One can only assume he expressed concerns about active programs that are currently considered part of NSA's mandated mission, and was told tough ####.

I tip my hat to you all for keeping it relatively civil as I tried mostly in vain to express my not-so-popular opinion. This is a fanboy thread and I've had my day on the hot seat, probably ticked off enough people for a while, so I bid you adieu.

I guess it depends on who you are. When I made several of the exact same arguments as you a few months back, I was treated to insult after insult.

God you're so wrong here I don't know where to begin.

 

[timschochet]

Daniel Ellsberg chimes in

But when I finally heard my lawyer ask the prearranged question in direct examination – Why did you copy the Pentagon Papers? – I was silenced before I could begin to answer. The government prosecutor objected – irrelevant – and the judge sustained. My lawyer, exasperated, said he "had never heard of a case where a defendant was not permitted to tell the jury why he did what he did." The judge responded: well, you're hearing one now.

And so it has been with every subsequent whistleblower under indictment, and so it would be if Edward Snowden was on trial in an American courtroom now.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act

Worth repeating.

Not really. Daniel Ellsberg was acquitted. He wanted to turn the courtroom into a circus where he could further his political agenda. The judge refused. This would be a serious issue if Ellsberg had gone to prison but he did not.

Just because Daniel Ellsberg doesn't believe he was given a fair trial doesn't mean he wasn't given a fair trial. And it certainly doesn't mean that Snowden wouldn't be given a fair trial.

 

[timschochet]

Daniel Ellsberg chimes in

John Kerry's challenge to Snowden to return and face trial is either disingenuous or simply ignorant that current prosecutions under the Espionage Act allow no distinction whatever between a patriotic whistleblower and a spy. Either way, nothing excuses Kerry's slanderous and despicable characterizations of a young man who, in my opinion, has done more than anyone in or out of government in this century to demonstrate his patriotism, moral courage and loyalty to the oath of office the three of us swore: to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act

Nails it. Kerry is nothing more than a tool.

Based on what?

 

[SacramentoBob]

Daniel Ellsberg chimes in

John Kerry's challenge to Snowden to return and face trial is either disingenuous or simply ignorant that current prosecutions under the Espionage Act allow no distinction whatever between a patriotic whistleblower and a spy. Either way, nothing excuses Kerry's slanderous and despicable characterizations of a young man who, in my opinion, has done more than anyone in or out of government in this century to demonstrate his patriotism, moral courage and loyalty to the oath of office the three of us swore: to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act

Nails it. Kerry is nothing more than a tool.

Based on what?

His toolish behavior.

 

[The Commish]

Probably not a coincidence that those of us with a military background, whether it's me and Dr Detroit or John Kerry, largely think Ed Snowden is a douchecanoe.

I watched last night and I haven't changed my mind. I still don't buy his take on the active "suppression of valid concerns" either. One can only assume he expressed concerns about active programs that are currently considered part of NSA's mandated mission, and was told tough ####.

I tip my hat to you all for keeping it relatively civil as I tried mostly in vain to express my not-so-popular opinion. This is a fanboy thread and I've had my day on the hot seat, probably ticked off enough people for a while, so I bid you adieu.

Martyr shtick just doesn't fit you. I'd move on.

You're not on the hot seat..well, at least with me. My problem with any of these sorts of reports is that your assessment doesn't match what we are seeing come out of the black box. Guys like me like to understand why. That's all I'm after...an explanation for the discrepancies. That's why I asked for evidence we've seen from our government, because I haven't seen it. If they are trying to throw me off their trail, they've done a good job.

 

[Ted Mullins]

Probably not a coincidence that those of us with a military background, whether it's me and Dr Detroit or John Kerry, largely think Ed Snowden is a douchecanoe.

I watched last night and I haven't changed my mind. I still don't buy his take on the active "suppression of valid concerns" either. One can only assume he expressed concerns about active programs that are currently considered part of NSA's mandated mission, and was told tough ####.

I tip my hat to you all for keeping it relatively civil as I tried mostly in vain to express my thoughts. This is a fanboy thread and I've had my day on the hot seat, probably ticked off enough people for a while, so I bid you adieu.

So you're contending that ANYONE with a military background think Snowden is a #####? Or just those who you hand picked that happen to agree with you?

I said largely

I would assume that this is correct. I would expect current and ex-military to be more loyal to and have a better perception of the national security organizations than the average person.

 

[Politician Spock]

This is a fanboy thread

Heroes have fans.

DUH!

 

[Todd Andrews]

Traitor. There are channels for releasing the information he had and he didnt follow them and then he fled to our enemies.

 

[fatness]

Traitor. There are channels for releasing the information he had and he didnt follow them and then he fled to our enemies.

He did a good job getting it to the right channel: the press.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Part of my problem with Snowden is how pompous he sounds. He seems genuinely pleased with himself and lapses into self congratulatory dialogue far too often. He's also pegging the narcissism meter pretty hard. This even after watch Elliott Roger YouTube rants.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Part of my problem with Snowden is how pompous he sounds. He seems genuinely pleased with himself and lapses into self congratulatory dialogue far too often. He's also pegging the narcissism meter pretty hard. This even after watch Elliott Roger YouTube rants.

Agreed, but his intentions and his personality aren't the issue. It can take someone with those selfish traits to pony up for the risk he is taking to shine the light on the situation and himself.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Part of my problem with Snowden is how pompous he sounds. He seems genuinely pleased with himself and lapses into self congratulatory dialogue far too often. He's also pegging the narcissism meter pretty hard. This even after watch Elliott Roger YouTube rants.

Agreed, but his intentions and his personality aren't the issue. It can take someone with those selfish traits to pony up for the risk he is taking to shine the light on the situation and himself.

I dunno. I get the impression he's doing this largely for attention. It seems like there are myriad other ways to shine a light on this sort of thing without taking the approach he did.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Part of my problem with Snowden is how pompous he sounds. He seems genuinely pleased with himself and lapses into self congratulatory dialogue far too often. He's also pegging the narcissism meter pretty hard. This even after watch Elliott Roger YouTube rants.

Agreed, but his intentions and his personality aren't the issue. It can take someone with those selfish traits to pony up for the risk he is taking to shine the light on the situation and himself.

I dunno. I get the impression he's doing this largely for attention. It seems like there are myriad other ways to shine a light on this sort of thing without taking the approach he did.

What would that be? Take it to his local congressman?

 

[Todd Andrews]

Part of my problem with Snowden is how pompous he sounds. He seems genuinely pleased with himself and lapses into self congratulatory dialogue far too often. He's also pegging the narcissism meter pretty hard. This even after watch Elliott Roger YouTube rants.

Agreed, but his intentions and his personality aren't the issue. It can take someone with those selfish traits to pony up for the risk he is taking to shine the light on the situation and himself.

I dunno. I get the impression he's doing this largely for attention. It seems like there are myriad other ways to shine a light on this sort of thing without taking the approach he did.

What would that be? Take it to his local congressman?

He could have gone the traditional whistleblower route (although that is still very dangerous). Or he could have quit and give it to the NYT anonymously....you are joking right? He didnt have to publicly go all in with attention whore Glenn Greenwald, run into the arms of our enemies with all of that info, and then hide under the protection of a dictator.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Part of my problem with Snowden is how pompous he sounds. He seems genuinely pleased with himself and lapses into self congratulatory dialogue far too often. He's also pegging the narcissism meter pretty hard. This even after watch Elliott Roger YouTube rants.

Agreed, but his intentions and his personality aren't the issue. It can take someone with those selfish traits to pony up for the risk he is taking to shine the light on the situation and himself.

I dunno. I get the impression he's doing this largely for attention. It seems like there are myriad other ways to shine a light on this sort of thing without taking the approach he did.

:goodpost:

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Probably not a coincidence that those of us with a military background, whether it's me and Dr Detroit or John Kerry, largely think Ed Snowden is a douchecanoe.

I watched last night and I haven't changed my mind. I still don't buy his take on the active "suppression of valid concerns" either. One can only assume he expressed concerns about active programs that are currently considered part of NSA's mandated mission, and was told tough ####.

I tip my hat to you all for keeping it relatively civil as I tried mostly in vain to express my thoughts. This is a fanboy thread and I've had my day on the hot seat, probably ticked off enough people for a while, so I bid you adieu.

So you're contending that ANYONE with a military background think Snowden is a #####? Or just those who you hand picked that happen to agree with you?

I said largely

Your placement of the word largely doesn't really go with the context you're implying here. You might have said "Many (or Most) with a Military background think he's a.......Where you put the word largely could mean other things. Regardless, do you have anything to suggest that a significant portion of the military community agrees with you?

You should go back to picking on Tim and not argue with the adults in the forum. You are uninformed, ignorant, and you have no context with which to argue with Jzilla. He's absolutely correct, those in the military largely think Snowden is a dooshbag traitor.

LARGELY

Is that clear enough?

 

[flapgreen]

Trero

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Probably not a coincidence that those of us with a military background, whether it's me and Dr Detroit or John Kerry, largely think Ed Snowden is a douchecanoe.

I watched last night and I haven't changed my mind. I still don't buy his take on the active "suppression of valid concerns" either. One can only assume he expressed concerns about active programs that are currently considered part of NSA's mandated mission, and was told tough ####.

I tip my hat to you all for keeping it relatively civil as I tried mostly in vain to express my thoughts. This is a fanboy thread and I've had my day on the hot seat, probably ticked off enough people for a while, so I bid you adieu.

So you're contending that ANYONE with a military background think Snowden is a #####? Or just those who you hand picked that happen to agree with you?

I said largely

Your placement of the word largely doesn't really go with the context you're implying here. You might have said "Many (or Most) with a Military background think he's a.......Where you put the word largely could mean other things. Regardless, do you have anything to suggest that a significant portion of the military community agrees with you?

You should go back to picking on Tim and not argue with the adults in the forum. You are uninformed, ignorant, and you have no context with which to argue with Jzilla. He's absolutely correct, those in the military largely think Snowden is a dooshbag traitor.

LARGELY

Is that clear enough?

And it's not just military folks. My girlfriend is contracted by an agency based in McLean and she told me that every single person she works with thinks Snowden is a traitor. I recognize that a lot of that is perspective bias, but it adds to the "boots on the ground think he's a #####" theme that seems to be prevalent among those in the know.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Like Hayden said, people are pissed at the NSA for not catching the 9/11 conspiracy and then they are pissed at the NSA because they collect too much information. Finding a happy medium probably doesn't exist but I'll go back to what I said when this first broke: No one gives a #### if you are cheating on your wife or what you ate last night that didn't agree with you. You can't be entirely free in this world, if you want that then move to a country like Sweden that isn't a terrorist target. Oh wait...no, don't move there either.

Government's job is not to make you happy, it's to protect and serve you. The NSA is not the Savak, no one cares if you are a communist or like to dress up like a potato. Commish saying that Snowden might come up dead had he stayed in the U.S. is paranoia and mindless shtick if there was ever such a thing. You don't live in Uzbekistan, Snowden would be treated just like any other person who gave away state secrets like Alrich Ames or Robert Hanssen. If what he gave to reporters and maybe to China and Russia was innocuous, then he'd be a free man and write many books and get on some speaking tours. Commish and Strikes2K could throw their panties at him, America would love it.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Like Hayden said, people are pissed at the NSA for not catching the 9/11 conspiracy and then they are pissed at the NSA because they collect too much information. Finding a happy medium probably doesn't exist but I'll go back to what I said when this first broke: No one gives a #### if you are cheating on your wife or what you ate last night that didn't agree with you. You can't be entirely free in this world, if you want that then move to a country like Sweden that isn't a terrorist target. Oh wait...no, don't move there either.

Government's job is not to make you happy, it's to protect and serve you. The NSA is not the Savak, no one cares if you are a communist or like to dress up like a potato. Commish saying that Snowden might come up dead had he stayed in the U.S. is paranoia and mindless shtick if there was ever such a thing. You don't live in Uzbekistan, Snowden would be treated just like any other person who gave away state secrets like Alrich Ames or Robert Hanssen. If what he gave to reporters and maybe to China and Russia was innocuous, then he'd be a free man and write many books and get on some speaking tours. Commish and Strikes2K could throw their panties at him, America would love it.

Fan-#######-tastic posting

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Like Hayden said, people are pissed at the NSA for not catching the 9/11 conspiracy

I don't find this to be true.

Not of everyday people.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Like Hayden said, people are pissed at the NSA for not catching the 9/11 conspiracy

I don't find this to be true.

Not of everyday people.

Depends on when you talk to someone and who's POTUS, I've found. Those I know who shouted from the rooftops when Bush was prez got really quiet when Obama was elected, and those who were not on the conspriacy bandwagon back then all of a sudden discovered the "truth" in November 2008. Funny how that works, but it's most probably a coincidence.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Like Hayden said, people are pissed at the NSA for not catching the 9/11 conspiracy

I don't find this to be true.

Not of everyday people.

Largely maybe?

They took a lot of heat for it, from the public and especially from Congress. Keep in mind that many of your elected officials allowed all this to happen, people that disagree with it all should make sure their elected representatives are aware of their displeasure. Other than that, you just aren't going to be able to pick and choose what methods your government uses to make sure planes aren't flying into your buildings. It's a dirty job working in DoD and intelligence, it's not all Captain Phillips rescues and parades. 99% of what is done for Americans is unknown to them, and it's better that way. You can believe that or not, but I know it to be true.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Like Hayden said, people are pissed at the NSA for not catching the 9/11 conspiracy

I don't find this to be true.

Not of everyday people.

Largely maybe?

They took a lot of heat for it, from the public and especially from Congress. Keep in mind that many of your elected officials allowed all this to happen, people that disagree with it all should make sure their elected representatives are aware of their displeasure. Other than that, you just aren't going to be able to pick and choose what methods your government uses to make sure planes aren't flying into your buildings. It's a dirty job working in DoD and intelligence, it's not all Captain Phillips rescues and parades. 99% of what is done for Americans is unknown to them, and it's better that way. You can believe that or not, but I know it to be true.

Congress doesnt count.

People were not pissed at the NSA or intelligence.

 

[DrJ]

Like Hayden said, people are pissed at the NSA for not catching the 9/11 conspiracy

I don't find this to be true.

Not of everyday people.

Largely maybe? They took a lot of heat for it, from the public and especially from Congress. Keep in mind that many of your elected officials allowed all this to happen, people that disagree with it all should make sure their elected representatives are aware of their displeasure. Other than that, you just aren't going to be able to pick and choose what methods your government uses to make sure planes aren't flying into your buildings. It's a dirty job working in DoD and intelligence, it's not all Captain Phillips rescues and parades. 99% of what is done for Americans is unknown to them, and it's better that way. You can believe that or not, but I know it to be true.

Like Hayden said, people are pissed at the NSA for not catching the 9/11 conspiracy

I don't find this to be true.

Not of everyday people.

Largely maybe? They took a lot of heat for it, from the public and especially from Congress. Keep in mind that many of your elected officials allowed all this to happen, people that disagree with it all should make sure their elected representatives are aware of their displeasure. Other than that, you just aren't going to be able to pick and choose what methods your government uses to make sure planes aren't flying into your buildings. It's a dirty job working in DoD and intelligence, it's not all Captain Phillips rescues and parades. 99% of what is done for Americans is unknown to them, and it's better that way. You can believe that or not, but I know it to be true.

I actually feel less safe because of our government and military actions. I suspect it's likely that far less people would actually want to fly planes into our buildings if it weren't for some of these actions. And I find this mentality you military guys have to be pretty scary. Largely.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

It's a matter of perspective, I don't know if chicken tenders are completely safe because I don't work in the industry. A chicken man like yourself would definitely know what I don't, and you'd probably tell me I could actually keep my frozen tenders for 30+ years and never have to worry. Follow?

Not all of what out government does is right, not saying that. I just have worked with so many other foreign governments that I can tell you that ours does the best by its citizens by and large. It's ok if you don't believe it, that's your right.

 

[DrJ]

Like Hayden said, people are pissed at the NSA for not catching the 9/11 conspiracy

I don't find this to be true.

Not of everyday people.

Largely maybe? They took a lot of heat for it, from the public and especially from Congress. Keep in mind that many of your elected officials allowed all this to happen, people that disagree with it all should make sure their elected representatives are aware of their displeasure. Other than that, you just aren't going to be able to pick and choose what methods your government uses to make sure planes aren't flying into your buildings. It's a dirty job working in DoD and intelligence, it's not all Captain Phillips rescues and parades. 99% of what is done for Americans is unknown to them, and it's better that way. You can believe that or not, but I know it to be true.

Congress doesnt count.

People were not pissed at the NSA or intelligence.

They were pissed that it didn't seem there was a lot being done despite these terrorist attacks happening relatively frequently and increasing in sophistication. And Clinton was taking a lot of that criticism, along with Bush. I don't think people were upset that not enough details of their personal lives were being recorded as part of that though...

 

[Joe T]

Is this the new drunk thread?

 

[Fennis]

I would assume that this is correct. I would expect current and ex-military to be more loyal to and have a better different perception of the national security organizations than the average person.

I'm tired of this country bowing at the altar of the military industrial complex.

 

[DrJ]

It's a matter of perspective, I don't know if chicken tenders are completely safe because I don't work in the industry. A chicken man like yourself would definitely know what I don't, and you'd probably tell me I could actually keep my frozen tenders for 30+ years and never have to worry. Follow?

Not all of what out government does is right, not saying that. I just have worked with so many other foreign governments that I can tell you that ours does the best by its citizens by and large. It's ok if you don't believe it, that's your right.

No matter what industry you work in, the answer is usually it depends. The chicken nuggets are probably pretty safe - until you go overboard and eat 5 lbs of them a day. Intelligence is probably similar. There's a point where it goes over some lines and all I'm saying is that you're getting dangerously close to being Mossad.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

It's a matter of perspective, I don't know if chicken tenders are completely safe because I don't work in the industry. A chicken man like yourself would definitely know what I don't, and you'd probably tell me I could actually keep my frozen tenders for 30+ years and never have to worry. Follow?

Not all of what out government does is right, not saying that. I just have worked with so many other foreign governments that I can tell you that ours does the best by its citizens by and large. It's ok if you don't believe it, that's your right.

No matter what industry you work in, the answer is usually it depends. The chicken nuggets are probably pretty safe - until you go overboard and eat 5 lbs of them a day. Intelligence is probably similar. There's a point where it goes over some lines and all I'm saying is that you're getting dangerously close to being Mossad.

I think that is a legitimate worry for the public. Also would largely depend on what sauce you were using I suppose.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Is this the new drunk thread?

Better get those panties ready for the Snowden speaking tour.

 

[jonessed]

He's articulate and speaks well. He's going to be a thorn in the intelligence community's side for quite some time.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I would assume that this is correct. I would expect current and ex-military to be more loyal to and have a better different perception of the national security organizations than the average person.

I'm tired of this country bowing at the altar of the military industrial complex.

Until the world we live in changes, you have no choice. India isn't buying F-16s for air shows.

 

[timschochet]

Like Hayden said, people are pissed at the NSA for not catching the 9/11 conspiracy and then they are pissed at the NSA because they collect too much information. Finding a happy medium probably doesn't exist but I'll go back to what I said when this first broke: No one gives a #### if you are cheating on your wife or what you ate last night that didn't agree with you. You can't be entirely free in this world, if you want that then move to a country like Sweden that isn't a terrorist target. Oh wait...no, don't move there either.

Government's job is not to make you happy, it's to protect and serve you. The NSA is not the Savak, no one cares if you are a communist or like to dress up like a potato. Commish saying that Snowden might come up dead had he stayed in the U.S. is paranoia and mindless shtick if there was ever such a thing. You don't live in Uzbekistan, Snowden would be treated just like any other person who gave away state secrets like Alrich Ames or Robert Hanssen. If what he gave to reporters and maybe to China and Russia was innocuous, then he'd be a free man and write many books and get on some speaking tours. Commish and Strikes2K could throw their panties at him, America would love it.

Awesome post. Couldn't agree more. Are you reading this, Politician Spock? Slapdash? Strikes2K? This guy gets it.

 

[DrJ]

I would assume that this is correct. I would expect current and ex-military to be more loyal to and have a better different perception of the national security organizations than the average person.

I'm tired of this country bowing at the altar of the military industrial complex.

Until the world we live in changes, you have no choice. India isn't buying F-16s for air shows.

F-16's in India? This is what we're supposed to be afraid of?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I would assume that this is correct. I would expect current and ex-military to be more loyal to and have a better different perception of the national security organizations than the average person.

I'm tired of this country bowing at the altar of the military industrial complex.

Until the world we live in changes, you have no choice. India isn't buying F-16s for air shows.

F-16's in India? This is what we're supposed to be afraid of?

I'm sure you know that isn't the point. Or maybe you don't.

 

[Joe T]

Is this the new drunk thread?

Better get those panties ready for the Snowden speaking tour.

So, yes? Thx for clarifying.

 

[DrJ]

I would assume that this is correct. I would expect current and ex-military to be more loyal to and have a better different perception of the national security organizations than the average person.

I'm tired of this country bowing at the altar of the military industrial complex.

Until the world we live in changes, you have no choice. India isn't buying F-16s for air shows.

F-16's in India? This is what we're supposed to be afraid of?

I'm sure you know that isn't the point. Or maybe you don't.

Guilty as charged. Please explain the point. We've got a pair of oceans surrounding us, and Texas probably has more private weapons than the Indian army. I really want to know what India buying F-16's means to me and my tax dollars.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I would assume that this is correct. I would expect current and ex-military to be more loyal to and have a better different perception of the national security organizations than the average person.

I'm tired of this country bowing at the altar of the military industrial complex.

Until the world we live in changes, you have no choice. India isn't buying F-16s for air shows.

F-16's in India? This is what we're supposed to be afraid of?

I'm sure you know that isn't the point. Or maybe you don't.

Guilty as charged. Please explain the point. We've got a pair of oceans surrounding us, and Texas probably has more private weapons than the Indian army. I really want to know what India buying F-16's means to me and my tax dollars.

It means that the world we live in is full of people who want to own it all, see Russia and Ukraine. India buys military weaponry to protect itself from Pakistan and China, Brazil buys it to protect itself from trans-gender prostitutes taking over. Pakistan has nuclear weapons so Iran doesn't walk on in, or India decides Pakistan is rightfully theirs. Saudi Arabia buys planes and gear because they hate Iran, Finland is in NATO so they don't get overrun by the Russians.

If you hate the military industrial complex then Africa might be best for you. They don't have much of it and are overrun with civil wars and chaos. Humans have been trying to invade and take each other over since the beginning of time, I find it hard to understand how people hate the military industrial complex when it has largely (especially in the United States) preserved and strengthened us.

 

[DrJ]

I would assume that this is correct. I would expect current and ex-military to be more loyal to and have a better different perception of the national security organizations than the average person.

I'm tired of this country bowing at the altar of the military industrial complex.

Until the world we live in changes, you have no choice. India isn't buying F-16s for air shows.

F-16's in India? This is what we're supposed to be afraid of?

I'm sure you know that isn't the point. Or maybe you don't.

Guilty as charged. Please explain the point. We've got a pair of oceans surrounding us, and Texas probably has more private weapons than the Indian army. I really want to know what India buying F-16's means to me and my tax dollars.

It means that the world we live in is full of people who want to own it all, see Russia and Ukraine. India buys military weaponry to protect itself from Pakistan and China, Brazil buys it to protect itself from trans-gender prostitutes taking over. Pakistan has nuclear weapons so Iran doesn't walk on in, or India decides Pakistan is rightfully theirs. Saudi Arabia buys planes and gear because they hate Iran, Finland is in NATO so they don't get overrun by the Russians.

If you hate the military industrial complex then Africa might be best for you. They don't have much of it and are overrun with civil wars and chaos. Humans have been trying to invade and take each other over since the beginning of time, I find it hard to understand how people hate the military industrial complex when it has largely (especially in the United States) preserved and strengthened us.

Right, and we've got Canada and ####### Mexico to worry about. I think we can handle ourselves with maybe 1/10th of the F-16's we currently have. If that.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I would assume that this is correct. I would expect current and ex-military to be more loyal to and have a better different perception of the national security organizations than the average person.

I'm tired of this country bowing at the altar of the military industrial complex.

Until the world we live in changes, you have no choice. India isn't buying F-16s for air shows.

F-16's in India? This is what we're supposed to be afraid of?

I'm sure you know that isn't the point. Or maybe you don't.

Guilty as charged. Please explain the point. We've got a pair of oceans surrounding us, and Texas probably has more private weapons than the Indian army. I really want to know what India buying F-16's means to me and my tax dollars.

It means that the world we live in is full of people who want to own it all, see Russia and Ukraine. India buys military weaponry to protect itself from Pakistan and China, Brazil buys it to protect itself from trans-gender prostitutes taking over. Pakistan has nuclear weapons so Iran doesn't walk on in, or India decides Pakistan is rightfully theirs. Saudi Arabia buys planes and gear because they hate Iran, Finland is in NATO so they don't get overrun by the Russians.

If you hate the military industrial complex then Africa might be best for you. They don't have much of it and are overrun with civil wars and chaos. Humans have been trying to invade and take each other over since the beginning of time, I find it hard to understand how people hate the military industrial complex when it has largely (especially in the United States) preserved and strengthened us.

Right, and we've got Canada and ####### Mexico to worry about. I think we can handle ourselves with maybe 1/10th of the F-16's we currently have. If that.

What would have happened had we not responded after 9/11 in your opinion? Had we done absolutely nothing at all? Just curious, not trying to get in a protracted argument. You know what I think about it already. Would like Fennis' opinion on that also.

 

[DrJ]

I would assume that this is correct. I would expect current and ex-military to be more loyal to and have a better different perception of the national security organizations than the average person.

I'm tired of this country bowing at the altar of the military industrial complex.

Until the world we live in changes, you have no choice. India isn't buying F-16s for air shows.

F-16's in India? This is what we're supposed to be afraid of?

I'm sure you know that isn't the point. Or maybe you don't.

Guilty as charged. Please explain the point. We've got a pair of oceans surrounding us, and Texas probably has more private weapons than the Indian army. I really want to know what India buying F-16's means to me and my tax dollars.

It means that the world we live in is full of people who want to own it all, see Russia and Ukraine. India buys military weaponry to protect itself from Pakistan and China, Brazil buys it to protect itself from trans-gender prostitutes taking over. Pakistan has nuclear weapons so Iran doesn't walk on in, or India decides Pakistan is rightfully theirs. Saudi Arabia buys planes and gear because they hate Iran, Finland is in NATO so they don't get overrun by the Russians.

If you hate the military industrial complex then Africa might be best for you. They don't have much of it and are overrun with civil wars and chaos. Humans have been trying to invade and take each other over since the beginning of time, I find it hard to understand how people hate the military industrial complex when it has largely (especially in the United States) preserved and strengthened us.

Right, and we've got Canada and ####### Mexico to worry about. I think we can handle ourselves with maybe 1/10th of the F-16's we currently have. If that.

What would have happened had we not responded after 9/11 in your opinion? Had we done absolutely nothing at all? Just curious, not trying to get in a protracted argument. You know what I think about it already.

Obviously we had to respond in some fashion, but all of the F-16's in the world (largely) didn't prevent it from happening in the first place. It's even possible that they contributed to it happening in the first place by pissing a bunch of people off that might not have otherwise cared all that much had we been content to simply be Canada's buttcrack and leave them alone.