Electric cars - now worth considering (1 Viewer)

[BowieMercs]

I'll be the last guy buying gas, because i drive old but well maintained beaters. If you are buying a new car anyway, it makes sense to minimize operating costs. Not sure how long people will let you charge up for free (at work, etc) but I suspect it wont last long. In VA, hybrids used to get to ride free on HOV lanes. That was phased out for newer hybrids once the sales numbers picked up.

I'd like to see longer range batteries. We routinely (a couple times a month) drive 3-10 hours one way visiting family etc.

 

[culdeus]

I'll be the last guy buying gas, because i drive old but well maintained beaters. If you are buying a new car anyway, it makes sense to minimize operating costs. Not sure how long people will let you charge up for free (at work, etc) but I suspect it wont last long. In VA, hybrids used to get to ride free on HOV lanes. That was phased out for newer hybrids once the sales numbers picked up.

I'd like to see longer range batteries. We routinely (a couple times a month) drive 3-10 hours one way visiting family etc.

That type of range isn't feasible anytime soon. You'll be looking at charging mid trip.

 

[BowieMercs]

I'll be the last guy buying gas, because i drive old but well maintained beaters. If you are buying a new car anyway, it makes sense to minimize operating costs. Not sure how long people will let you charge up for free (at work, etc) but I suspect it wont last long. In VA, hybrids used to get to ride free on HOV lanes. That was phased out for newer hybrids once the sales numbers picked up.

I'd like to see longer range batteries. We routinely (a couple times a month) drive 3-10 hours one way visiting family etc.

That type of range isn't feasible anytime soon. You'll be looking at charging mid trip.

Nope, i'll just stop for gas

 

[dparker713]

I'll be the last guy buying gas, because i drive old but well maintained beaters. If you are buying a new car anyway, it makes sense to minimize operating costs. Not sure how long people will let you charge up for free (at work, etc) but I suspect it wont last long. In VA, hybrids used to get to ride free on HOV lanes. That was phased out for newer hybrids once the sales numbers picked up.

I'd like to see longer range batteries. We routinely (a couple times a month) drive 3-10 hours one way visiting family etc.

That type of range isn't feasible anytime soon. You'll be looking at charging mid trip.

Nope, i'll just stop for gas

Quick charge gets you 50 to 80% charge in 20-30 minutes depending on the car. Sure, it's somewhat longer than a quick fuel up, but it's hardly that much different.

 

[BowieMercs]

Somewhat? Its 6x longer and that assumes you can find a place to charge when you need it. Just curious... what kind of efficiency drop do you see in cold weather?

I'll be dead by the time I can buy a used electric car with acceptable range, but my adult kids may buy into affordable electric vehicles as they rarely drive more than an hour or two at a time.

 

[dparker713]

Somewhat? Its 6x longer and that assumes you can find a place to charge when you need it. Just curious... what kind of efficiency drop do you see in cold weather?

I'll be dead by the time I can buy a used electric car with acceptable range, but my adult kids may buy into affordable electric vehicles as they rarely drive more than an hour or two at a time.

No tank I know of fills in 3 minutes. And While I'm the type that fills and goes generally, plenty of people regularly buy stuff or use the bathroom when they stop on a long trip. I'm which case you're actually only talking about a few minutes difference.

 

[NutterButter]

I'll be the last guy buying gas, because i drive old but well maintained beaters. If you are buying a new car anyway, it makes sense to minimize operating costs. Not sure how long people will let you charge up for free (at work, etc) but I suspect it wont last long. In VA, hybrids used to get to ride free on HOV lanes. That was phased out for newer hybrids once the sales numbers picked up.

I'd like to see longer range batteries. We routinely (a couple times a month) drive 3-10 hours one way visiting family etc.

There's places that let you charge up for free?

 

[BowieMercs]

Somewhat? Its 6x longer and that assumes you can find a place to charge when you need it. Just curious... what kind of efficiency drop do you see in cold weather?

I'll be dead by the time I can buy a used electric car with acceptable range, but my adult kids may buy into affordable electric vehicles as they rarely drive more than an hour or two at a time.

No tank I know of fills in 3 minutes. And While I'm the type that fills and goes generally, plenty of people regularly buy stuff or use the bathroom when they stop on a long trip. I'm which case you're actually only talking about a few minutes difference.

5 minute fill up in my car. 5*6 = 30

Cuz... math.

 

[BowieMercs]

I'll be the last guy buying gas, because i drive old but well maintained beaters. If you are buying a new car anyway, it makes sense to minimize operating costs. Not sure how long people will let you charge up for free (at work, etc) but I suspect it wont last long. In VA, hybrids used to get to ride free on HOV lanes. That was phased out for newer hybrids once the sales numbers picked up.

I'd like to see longer range batteries. We routinely (a couple times a month) drive 3-10 hours one way visiting family etc.

There's places that let you charge up for free?

I have heard of select urban areas where there are parking spaces reserved for electric cars. If you dont/cant plug in you get towed.

The charge is essentially free since you have to pay to park anyway.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Somewhat? Its 6x longer and that assumes you can find a place to charge when you need it. Just curious... what kind of efficiency drop do you see in cold weather?

I'll be dead by the time I can buy a used electric car with acceptable range, but my adult kids may buy into affordable electric vehicles as they rarely drive more than an hour or two at a time.

No tank I know of fills in 3 minutes. And While I'm the type that fills and goes generally, plenty of people regularly buy stuff or use the bathroom when they stop on a long trip. I'm which case you're actually only talking about a few minutes difference.

No when you factor in how much more frequently you have to stop and recharge.

 

[BowieMercs]

Somewhat? Its 6x longer and that assumes you can find a place to charge when you need it. Just curious... what kind of efficiency drop do you see in cold weather?

I'll be dead by the time I can buy a used electric car with acceptable range, but my adult kids may buy into affordable electric vehicles as they rarely drive more than an hour or two at a time.

No tank I know of fills in 3 minutes. And While I'm the type that fills and goes generally, plenty of people regularly buy stuff or use the bathroom when they stop on a long trip. I'm which case you're actually only talking about a few minutes difference.

No when you factor in how much more frequently you have to stop and recharge.

Yep. Electric cars are great for commuting. It'll be a while before they are suitable for long distance driving.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

This country will always have cars, trucks and gas stations.

Bu I'm happy folks are buying into the technology.

 

[belljr]

The Chevy Volt is actually pretty nice.

Doesn't make sense for me but a friend has one.

ETA: I like that it has like an 8 gallon gas tank.

So when the charge runs out the gas kicks on to run the internal genreator

 

[culdeus]

Long term I sort of see people having a commuter pure electric car and a larger HEV that's plug in powered primarily by solar panels into a harvesting system that doesn't require an inverter.

Pure electric perhaps has a 120-140 mile range and HEV has a 40 mile range or so but can run indefinitely on gas as required. The most comparable car to this right now on the market is what Volvo is doing with the XC90 and BMW with the X5idrive.

The combination of these two in a typical family could drop emissions upwards of 80%. Where this falls short is a non family environment where someone needs just one car. That person has a more difficult choice and probably just opts for the HEV

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'm sure folks already know this but the "batteries" that make these electric and hybrids typically run, the amount of energy it takes or planet footprint let's call it, just as bad if not worse with the electric vehicles. I know it is difficult at times for people to think about but you really are not saving the planet driving an electric car. People seem to think that an electric car just magically appears.

You can research it but I was surprised that overall it doesn't make a dent in the environment. I like the idea of not having to send our sons to war over it but that reason is never the first reason discussed usually. It also does not address 18 wheelers which is the heart of this country and transportation. I cannot envision an electric hybrid 18 wheel type things.

But the more people who buy electric, the more stations they will build. I do not think you can come out ahead in terms of money. I can buy a used Honda for well under $10k that gets strong gas mileage and the car could potentially last me 10 years even purchased used.

I like the feel of cars and I have never warmed up to the Prius or any of the Toyota Hybrids but I see how well they sell. Just think people are buying them to "Save the Planet" or to protest the wars in the ME, all well and good but I also think people buy them because they think those cars leave an environmental footprint that is say half of a normal car and I say that just does not seem true. But I'm open to listening and learning more about it.

 

[culdeus]

I'm sure folks already know this but the "batteries" that make these electric and hybrids typically run, the amount of energy it takes or planet footprint let's call it, just as bad if not worse with the electric vehicles. I know it is difficult at times for people to think about but you really are not saving the planet driving an electric car. People seem to think that an electric car just magically appears.

You can research it but I was surprised that overall it doesn't make a dent in the environment. I like the idea of not having to send our sons to war over it but that reason is never the first reason discussed usually. It also does not address 18 wheelers which is the heart of this country and transportation. I cannot envision an electric hybrid 18 wheel type things.

But the more people who buy electric, the more stations they will build. I do not think you can come out ahead in terms of money. I can buy a used Honda for well under $10k that gets strong gas mileage and the car could potentially last me 10 years even purchased used.

I like the feel of cars and I have never warmed up to the Prius or any of the Toyota Hybrids but I see how well they sell. Just think people are buying them to "Save the Planet" or to protest the wars in the ME, all well and good but I also think people buy them because they think those cars leave an environmental footprint that is say half of a normal car and I say that just does not seem true. But I'm open to listening and learning more about it.

There are a lot of variables in play here. To shift from oil to coal would be bad, yes. That's what most people point to. Shifting from oil to solar is a different thing altogether. Solar is getting much cheaper and the conversion from solar->storage->EV is less expensive than Solar->AC and makes far more sense.

Storage above the needs of the EV can be converted to run things like hot water heaters and other appliances that could run off DC, but ultimately inverters will be part of the solution for many people. That's where the huge savings come in. Getting the USA off coal and onto solar and perhaps natural gas is where the huge turnaround will come.

This doesn't come without drawbacks however, the net job loss in this country as people shift from oil to solar will be dramatic. Something like for every gas station in this country 8 people are employed elsewhere to keep it full. Solar for what it is worth is maintenance free past the install and the labor units gained in the economy per total kwh of solar is negligible. Plus nobody has to pay royalties on the sun.

The end of coal energy isn't as dramatic. The impact should be much smaller as that as an industry has less of a foothold.

Longer term the batteries will get cleaner. Things like super caps and perhaps fuel cells will come on the market. These will ease the life strain of batteries. Big cell recycling is also getting much more effective. Would expect harvesting of old cells into home storage units to be a big thing long term. All of this will reduce the footprint, but sadly the economy moving off oil is going to have a disastrous effect on the US and could ultimately lead to a world war.

 

[dparker713]

Somewhat? Its 6x longer and that assumes you can find a place to charge when you need it. Just curious... what kind of efficiency drop do you see in cold weather?

I'll be dead by the time I can buy a used electric car with acceptable range, but my adult kids may buy into affordable electric vehicles as they rarely drive more than an hour or two at a time.

No tank I know of fills in 3 minutes. And While I'm the type that fills and goes generally, plenty of people regularly buy stuff or use the bathroom when they stop on a long trip. I'm which case you're actually only talking about a few minutes difference.

5 minute fill up in my car. 5*6 = 30

Cuz... math.

20/5 = 4

Cuz... reading

 

[roadkill1292]

I'm sure folks already know this but the "batteries" that make these electric and hybrids typically run, the amount of energy it takes or planet footprint let's call it, just as bad if not worse with the electric vehicles. I know it is difficult at times for people to think about but you really are not saving the planet driving an electric car. People seem to think that an electric car just magically appears.

You can research it but I was surprised that overall it doesn't make a dent in the environment. I like the idea of not having to send our sons to war over it but that reason is never the first reason discussed usually. It also does not address 18 wheelers which is the heart of this country and transportation. I cannot envision an electric hybrid 18 wheel type things.

But the more people who buy electric, the more stations they will build. I do not think you can come out ahead in terms of money. I can buy a used Honda for well under $10k that gets strong gas mileage and the car could potentially last me 10 years even purchased used.

I like the feel of cars and I have never warmed up to the Prius or any of the Toyota Hybrids but I see how well they sell. Just think people are buying them to "Save the Planet" or to protest the wars in the ME, all well and good but I also think people buy them because they think those cars leave an environmental footprint that is say half of a normal car and I say that just does not seem true. But I'm open to listening and learning more about it.

There are a lot of variables in play here. To shift from oil to coal would be bad, yes. That's what most people point to. Shifting from oil to solar is a different thing altogether. Solar is getting much cheaper and the conversion from solar->storage->EV is less expensive than Solar->AC and makes far more sense.

Storage above the needs of the EV can be converted to run things like hot water heaters and other appliances that could run off DC, but ultimately inverters will be part of the solution for many people. That's where the huge savings come in. Getting the USA off coal and onto solar and perhaps natural gas is where the huge turnaround will come.

This doesn't come without drawbacks however, the net job loss in this country as people shift from oil to solar will be dramatic. Something like for every gas station in this country 8 people are employed elsewhere to keep it full. Solar for what it is worth is maintenance free past the install and the labor units gained in the economy per total kwh of solar is negligible. Plus nobody has to pay royalties on the sun.

The end of coal energy isn't as dramatic. The impact should be much smaller as that as an industry has less of a foothold.

Longer term the batteries will get cleaner. Things like super caps and perhaps fuel cells will come on the market. These will ease the life strain of batteries. Big cell recycling is also getting much more effective. Would expect harvesting of old cells into home storage units to be a big thing long term. All of this will reduce the footprint, but sadly the economy moving off oil is going to have a disastrous effect on the US and could ultimately lead to a world war.

I'm not buying the bolded statement at all. Economic disruptions happen all the time. Economies adjust.

 

[culdeus]

I'm sure folks already know this but the "batteries" that make these electric and hybrids typically run, the amount of energy it takes or planet footprint let's call it, just as bad if not worse with the electric vehicles. I know it is difficult at times for people to think about but you really are not saving the planet driving an electric car. People seem to think that an electric car just magically appears.

You can research it but I was surprised that overall it doesn't make a dent in the environment. I like the idea of not having to send our sons to war over it but that reason is never the first reason discussed usually. It also does not address 18 wheelers which is the heart of this country and transportation. I cannot envision an electric hybrid 18 wheel type things.

But the more people who buy electric, the more stations they will build. I do not think you can come out ahead in terms of money. I can buy a used Honda for well under $10k that gets strong gas mileage and the car could potentially last me 10 years even purchased used.

I like the feel of cars and I have never warmed up to the Prius or any of the Toyota Hybrids but I see how well they sell. Just think people are buying them to "Save the Planet" or to protest the wars in the ME, all well and good but I also think people buy them because they think those cars leave an environmental footprint that is say half of a normal car and I say that just does not seem true. But I'm open to listening and learning more about it.

There are a lot of variables in play here. To shift from oil to coal would be bad, yes. That's what most people point to. Shifting from oil to solar is a different thing altogether. Solar is getting much cheaper and the conversion from solar->storage->EV is less expensive than Solar->AC and makes far more sense.

Storage above the needs of the EV can be converted to run things like hot water heaters and other appliances that could run off DC, but ultimately inverters will be part of the solution for many people. That's where the huge savings come in. Getting the USA off coal and onto solar and perhaps natural gas is where the huge turnaround will come.

This doesn't come without drawbacks however, the net job loss in this country as people shift from oil to solar will be dramatic. Something like for every gas station in this country 8 people are employed elsewhere to keep it full. Solar for what it is worth is maintenance free past the install and the labor units gained in the economy per total kwh of solar is negligible. Plus nobody has to pay royalties on the sun.

The end of coal energy isn't as dramatic. The impact should be much smaller as that as an industry has less of a foothold.

Longer term the batteries will get cleaner. Things like super caps and perhaps fuel cells will come on the market. These will ease the life strain of batteries. Big cell recycling is also getting much more effective. Would expect harvesting of old cells into home storage units to be a big thing long term. All of this will reduce the footprint, but sadly the economy moving off oil is going to have a disastrous effect on the US and could ultimately lead to a world war.

I'm not buying the bolded statement at all. Economic disruptions happen all the time. Economies adjust.

This will be one of the largest disruptions in the history of the world. The Middle East is not prepared to sustain themselves for life after oil. When they realize they can't control the supply curve to hit the price point they want due to low demand you'll see #### hit the fan.

This is exhibit a in a be careful what you wish for dynamic.

 

[dparker713]

Somewhat? Its 6x longer and that assumes you can find a place to charge when you need it. Just curious... what kind of efficiency drop do you see in cold weather?

I'll be dead by the time I can buy a used electric car with acceptable range, but my adult kids may buy into affordable electric vehicles as they rarely drive more than an hour or two at a time.

No tank I know of fills in 3 minutes. And While I'm the type that fills and goes generally, plenty of people regularly buy stuff or use the bathroom when they stop on a long trip. I'm which case you're actually only talking about a few minutes difference.

No when you factor in how much more frequently you have to stop and recharge.

Depends on the car

A Model S has up to 270 mile range. Its got the longest recharge time, but even still, you can get a 50% charge in 30 minutes. So that's 400 mile range with a 30 minute break. For 99% of trips that's more than enough. And that's with current technology.

 

[the moops]

I'm sure folks already know this but the "batteries" that make these electric and hybrids typically run, the amount of energy it takes or planet footprint let's call it, just as bad if not worse with the electric vehicles.

First, great sentence.

Second, this is not true.

 

[dparker713]

I'm sure folks already know this but the "batteries" that make these electric and hybrids typically run, the amount of energy it takes or planet footprint let's call it, just as bad if not worse with the electric vehicles. I know it is difficult at times for people to think about but you really are not saving the planet driving an electric car. People seem to think that an electric car just magically appears.

You can research it but I was surprised that overall it doesn't make a dent in the environment. I like the idea of not having to send our sons to war over it but that reason is never the first reason discussed usually. It also does not address 18 wheelers which is the heart of this country and transportation. I cannot envision an electric hybrid 18 wheel type things.

But the more people who buy electric, the more stations they will build. I do not think you can come out ahead in terms of money. I can buy a used Honda for well under $10k that gets strong gas mileage and the car could potentially last me 10 years even purchased used.

I like the feel of cars and I have never warmed up to the Prius or any of the Toyota Hybrids but I see how well they sell. Just think people are buying them to "Save the Planet" or to protest the wars in the ME, all well and good but I also think people buy them because they think those cars leave an environmental footprint that is say half of a normal car and I say that just does not seem true. But I'm open to listening and learning more about it.

There are a lot of variables in play here. To shift from oil to coal would be bad, yes. That's what most people point to. Shifting from oil to solar is a different thing altogether. Solar is getting much cheaper and the conversion from solar->storage->EV is less expensive than Solar->AC and makes far more sense.

Storage above the needs of the EV can be converted to run things like hot water heaters and other appliances that could run off DC, but ultimately inverters will be part of the solution for many people. That's where the huge savings come in. Getting the USA off coal and onto solar and perhaps natural gas is where the huge turnaround will come.

This doesn't come without drawbacks however, the net job loss in this country as people shift from oil to solar will be dramatic. Something like for every gas station in this country 8 people are employed elsewhere to keep it full. Solar for what it is worth is maintenance free past the install and the labor units gained in the economy per total kwh of solar is negligible. Plus nobody has to pay royalties on the sun.

The end of coal energy isn't as dramatic. The impact should be much smaller as that as an industry has less of a foothold.

Longer term the batteries will get cleaner. Things like super caps and perhaps fuel cells will come on the market. These will ease the life strain of batteries. Big cell recycling is also getting much more effective. Would expect harvesting of old cells into home storage units to be a big thing long term. All of this will reduce the footprint, but sadly the economy moving off oil is going to have a disastrous effect on the US and could ultimately lead to a world war.

I'm not buying the bolded statement at all. Economic disruptions happen all the time. Economies adjust.

This will be one of the largest disruptions in the history of the world. The Middle East is not prepared to sustain themselves for life after oil. When they realize they can't control the supply curve to hit the price point they want due to low demand you'll see #### hit the fan.

This is exhibit a in a be careful what you wish for dynamic.

The problem isn't the Middle East. They can't do much more than they're already doing militarily. The problem comes when Russia is facing another economic collapse.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Do these things have any torq?

The Nissan Leaf and BMW i3 have 187 and 184 lbs. of torque, respectively. One of the biggest advantages of electric cars is the instant torque.

Guy up the block has an i8. Thing so rules.

http://i.imgur.com/TaXUClL.jpg

I rented this a few months back, took it for a ride up the Palisades to Bear Mountain... Def enjoyed it, but I think at this dollar amount, I'd rather have an R8.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'm sure folks already know this but the "batteries" that make these electric and hybrids typically run, the amount of energy it takes or planet footprint let's call it, just as bad if not worse with the electric vehicles.

First, great sentence.

Second, this is not true.

Yo Moops!, could you show me where you get the info? Because I have done a lot of research and when in SoCal I wanted to buy an electric car/hybrid and once I started talking to people you got a lot of different info at the car dealers and such.

Talk to most used car lots an they will tell you they won't even take a hybrid vehicle in because people buy them used, the batteries go gouth and then they come back stormin' mad. Most of those cars are not made to run for 10-20 years. I doubt highly you will see a lot of functioning classic hybrids in 50 years. Hope I'm wrong.

You have to look at the whole picture when we talk of a footprint left behind. Where do these cars end up? I don't believe they can just be tossed into the junk pile. Those batteries have to be disposed of properly.

And then you add in limited range. I think these cars are perfect for the urban commuter going 20-40 miles round trip daily.

The energy it takes to build these vehicles...where do folks think the energy comes from that powers these vehicles? It still takes resources that a lot of folks overlook. The cars are marketed to people that want to save the planet and feel they are helping by driving these/those cars.

What do you drive sir? My V6 Accord Coupe drinks a lot more gas than I would like 16-17 mpg in city but it's paid for and I only drive a couple hundred miles a week. My car costs are very low. I buy them 5 yrs old, 60-75K miles, drive them around 4-5 years, trade in for another 5 yr old used Honda, been working out really well in terms of money spent.

I avg about $100 a month or less in ownership costs including purchase, maintenance and resale. We have neighbors who are shelling out $1,200 a month on a couple newer vehicles. They always are running low on money, I can't imagine why.

 

[culdeus]

Used hybrid batteries will be part of off grid storage soon. Tesla is already working on systems built around recycled batteries. Most of those concerns about battery removal and disposal will be dealt with soon enough. And even as things are now it's not a big deal. People tossing old phones in the trash is a far bigger environmental disaster. It's difficult to throw a car in the trash.

 

[BowieMercs]

Somewhat? Its 6x longer and that assumes you can find a place to charge when you need it. Just curious... what kind of efficiency drop do you see in cold weather?

I'll be dead by the time I can buy a used electric car with acceptable range, but my adult kids may buy into affordable electric vehicles as they rarely drive more than an hour or two at a time.

No tank I know of fills in 3 minutes. And While I'm the type that fills and goes generally, plenty of people regularly buy stuff or use the bathroom when they stop on a long trip. I'm which case you're actually only talking about a few minutes difference.

5 minute fill up in my car. 5*6 = 30Cuz... math.

20/5 = 4

Cuz... reading

My reading is fine.

YOU are the one who said 20-30 minutes. I did my math using 30 minutes. You chose to use the lower end.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't own an electric car. If you feel a need to justify an electric car, maybe its not for you.

For my driving, the current technology wont cut it. Even if it did, I don't buy new cars, so its a moot point.

 

[roadkill1292]

I'm sure folks already know this but the "batteries" that make these electric and hybrids typically run, the amount of energy it takes or planet footprint let's call it, just as bad if not worse with the electric vehicles. I know it is difficult at times for people to think about but you really are not saving the planet driving an electric car. People seem to think that an electric car just magically appears.

You can research it but I was surprised that overall it doesn't make a dent in the environment. I like the idea of not having to send our sons to war over it but that reason is never the first reason discussed usually. It also does not address 18 wheelers which is the heart of this country and transportation. I cannot envision an electric hybrid 18 wheel type things.

But the more people who buy electric, the more stations they will build. I do not think you can come out ahead in terms of money. I can buy a used Honda for well under $10k that gets strong gas mileage and the car could potentially last me 10 years even purchased used.

I like the feel of cars and I have never warmed up to the Prius or any of the Toyota Hybrids but I see how well they sell. Just think people are buying them to "Save the Planet" or to protest the wars in the ME, all well and good but I also think people buy them because they think those cars leave an environmental footprint that is say half of a normal car and I say that just does not seem true. But I'm open to listening and learning more about it.

There are a lot of variables in play here. To shift from oil to coal would be bad, yes. That's what most people point to. Shifting from oil to solar is a different thing altogether. Solar is getting much cheaper and the conversion from solar->storage->EV is less expensive than Solar->AC and makes far more sense.

Storage above the needs of the EV can be converted to run things like hot water heaters and other appliances that could run off DC, but ultimately inverters will be part of the solution for many people. That's where the huge savings come in. Getting the USA off coal and onto solar and perhaps natural gas is where the huge turnaround will come.

This doesn't come without drawbacks however, the net job loss in this country as people shift from oil to solar will be dramatic. Something like for every gas station in this country 8 people are employed elsewhere to keep it full. Solar for what it is worth is maintenance free past the install and the labor units gained in the economy per total kwh of solar is negligible. Plus nobody has to pay royalties on the sun.

The end of coal energy isn't as dramatic. The impact should be much smaller as that as an industry has less of a foothold.

Longer term the batteries will get cleaner. Things like super caps and perhaps fuel cells will come on the market. These will ease the life strain of batteries. Big cell recycling is also getting much more effective. Would expect harvesting of old cells into home storage units to be a big thing long term. All of this will reduce the footprint, but sadly the economy moving off oil is going to have a disastrous effect on the US and could ultimately lead to a world war.

I'm not buying the bolded statement at all. Economic disruptions happen all the time. Economies adjust.

This will be one of the largest disruptions in the history of the world. The Middle East is not prepared to sustain themselves for life after oil. When they realize they can't control the supply curve to hit the price point they want due to low demand you'll see #### hit the fan.

This is exhibit a in a be careful what you wish for dynamic.

The problem isn't the Middle East. They can't do much more than they're already doing militarily. The problem comes when Russia is facing another economic collapse.

Oil producing countries already know the end of oil as our primary fuel is inevitable. This isn't a "be careful what you wish for" scenario; cheaper alternatives, once developed, can't be stopped by politics.

 

[Mr. Ected]

the tax credits in GA are some of the best in the country for all electric vehicles -- there's a LOT of Leafs (Leaves?) around here. I drove one and I've ridden in 3 or 4 others.

They're nicer than I expected. I'd get one.

I was gobsmacked by the room and ride. Kind of removed like older luxury cars, but nice. I first drove it thinking "no way.," but 20 miles later I was trying to finda way to own one.Texas does not have additional rebates and incentives like many other states, so others can probably find better deals than I did.

Two things: it really cannot be your only car and you need a garage to set up the charging station.

While walking the dog the other night, saw a Tesla in my neighborhood parked outside a single car garage, charging.

 

[dparker713]

Somewhat? Its 6x longer and that assumes you can find a place to charge when you need it. Just curious... what kind of efficiency drop do you see in cold weather?

I'll be dead by the time I can buy a used electric car with acceptable range, but my adult kids may buy into affordable electric vehicles as they rarely drive more than an hour or two at a time.

No tank I know of fills in 3 minutes. And While I'm the type that fills and goes generally, plenty of people regularly buy stuff or use the bathroom when they stop on a long trip. I'm which case you're actually only talking about a few minutes difference.

5 minute fill up in my car. 5*6 = 30Cuz... math.

20/5 = 4

Cuz... reading

My reading is fine.

YOU are the one who said 20-30 minutes. I did my math using 30 minutes. You chose to use the lower end.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't own an electric car. If you feel a need to justify an electric car, maybe its not for you.

For my driving, the current technology wont cut it. Even if it did, I don't buy new cars, so its a moot point.

You're the one that reduced a range to a single point. HTH

 

[BowieMercs]

Somewhat? Its 6x longer and that assumes you can find a place to charge when you need it. Just curious... what kind of efficiency drop do you see in cold weather?

I'll be dead by the time I can buy a used electric car with acceptable range, but my adult kids may buy into affordable electric vehicles as they rarely drive more than an hour or two at a time.

No tank I know of fills in 3 minutes. And While I'm the type that fills and goes generally, plenty of people regularly buy stuff or use the bathroom when they stop on a long trip. I'm which case you're actually only talking about a few minutes difference.

5 minute fill up in my car. 5*6 = 30Cuz... math.

20/5 = 4

Cuz... reading

My reading is fine.

YOU are the one who said 20-30 minutes. I did my math using 30 minutes. You chose to use the lower end.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't own an electric car. If you feel a need to justify an electric car, maybe its not for you.

For my driving, the current technology wont cut it. Even if it did, I don't buy new cars, so its a moot point.

You're the one that reduced a range to a single point. HTH

Welcome to my ignore list

 

[SacramentoBob]

Thought about buying a Tesla Model S, but settled on a normal hybrid this year. Waiting to see what the Model 3 looks like that will be unveiled this year. If I like it, i'll probably sell my car and buy a Tesla.

 

[BowieMercs]

Thought about buying a Tesla Model S, but settled on a normal hybrid this year. Waiting to see what the Model 3 looks like that will be unveiled this year. If I like it, i'll probably sell my car and buy a Tesla.

That the one targeted for the $30K price range? Teslas around here turn heads while people dont five a Ferrari a second look

 

[SacramentoBob]

Thought about buying a Tesla Model S, but settled on a normal hybrid this year. Waiting to see what the Model 3 looks like that will be unveiled this year. If I like it, i'll probably sell my car and buy a Tesla.

That the one targeted for the $30K price range? Teslas around here turn heads while people dont five a Ferrari a second look

Yeah. Supposed to be $35K and I'm betting they are doing typical Tesla math when they subtract the cost of tax breaks and "gas savings over the life of the car". I'm expecting it to be in the $45K MSRP range in reality. No Super Charger stations around here though.

 

[BowieMercs]

This is pretty interesting stuff from Tesla:

https://my.teslamotors.com/it_IT/forum/forums/heavy-air-conditioning-use-and-battery-life

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I leased a VW eGolf last week (3 yrs, 10,000 mi/yr). Love it so far. I use a normal 110V to charge it overnight. It's our commuter car. Typically do 40-60 miles per day. I went with the eGolf over other EVs (Leaf, i3, etc.) because it still looks like a normal car.

 

[cstu]

I leased a VW eGolf last week (3 yrs, 10,000 mi/yr). Love it so far. I use a normal 110V to charge it overnight. It's our commuter car. Typically do 40-60 miles per day. I went with the eGolf over other EVs (Leaf, i3, etc.) because it still looks like a normal car.

How much was the lease?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I leased a VW eGolf last week (3 yrs, 10,000 mi/yr). Love it so far. I use a normal 110V to charge it overnight. It's our commuter car. Typically do 40-60 miles per day. I went with the eGolf over other EVs (Leaf, i3, etc.) because it still looks like a normal car.

How much was the lease?

$160/mo includes taxes, prepaid maintenance and wear & tear protection.

eta: $4,688 due at signing less $2,500 CA rebate = $2,188.

 

[nirad3]

I leased a VW eGolf last week (3 yrs, 10,000 mi/yr). Love it so far. I use a normal 110V to charge it overnight. It's our commuter car. Typically do 40-60 miles per day. I went with the eGolf over other EVs (Leaf, i3, etc.) because it still looks like a normal car.

How much was the lease?

$160/mo includes taxes, prepaid maintenance and wear & tear protection.

eta: $4,688 due at signing less $2,500 CA rebate = $2,188.

I could be all over that here in a year or so when I'm ready for my new vehicle... assuming they still have deals like that. Wow.

 

[cstu]

I leased a VW eGolf last week (3 yrs, 10,000 mi/yr). Love it so far. I use a normal 110V to charge it overnight. It's our commuter car. Typically do 40-60 miles per day. I went with the eGolf over other EVs (Leaf, i3, etc.) because it still looks like a normal car.

How much was the lease?

$160/mo includes taxes, prepaid maintenance and wear & tear protection.

eta: $4,688 due at signing less $2,500 CA rebate = $2,188.

I could be all over that here in a year or so when I'm ready for my new vehicle... assuming they still have deals like that. Wow.

No kidding...I spend more than $160 a month on gas.

ETA: I'm not getting anywhere near that on the VW website (~$400/mo.)...what dealer was that at?

 

[tuffnutt]

I leased a VW eGolf last week (3 yrs, 10,000 mi/yr). Love it so far. I use a normal 110V to charge it overnight. It's our commuter car. Typically do 40-60 miles per day. I went with the eGolf over other EVs (Leaf, i3, etc.) because it still looks like a normal car.

How much was the lease?

$160/mo includes taxes, prepaid maintenance and wear & tear protection.

eta: $4,688 due at signing less $2,500 CA rebate = $2,188.

How much has your electric bill gone up?

 

[Dragons]

I get the $169 offer, but this is in the disclosure:

..can't seen to copy paste on my phone, but it's limited to a handful of states

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I leased a VW eGolf last week (3 yrs, 10,000 mi/yr). Love it so far. I use a normal 110V to charge it overnight. It's our commuter car. Typically do 40-60 miles per day. I went with the eGolf over other EVs (Leaf, i3, etc.) because it still looks like a normal car.

How much was the lease?

$160/mo includes taxes, prepaid maintenance and wear & tear protection.

eta: $4,688 due at signing less $2,500 CA rebate = $2,188.

I could be all over that here in a year or so when I'm ready for my new vehicle... assuming they still have deals like that. Wow.

No kidding...I spend more than $160 a month on gas.

ETA: I'm not getting anywhere near that on the VW website (~$400/mo.)...what dealer was that at?

http://www.sunnyvalevw.com/E-Golf

My incentives were $7,500 rebate (Federal incentive) + $1,500 Conquest incentive. The Conquest is because I am a Honda owner.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I leased a VW eGolf last week (3 yrs, 10,000 mi/yr). Love it so far. I use a normal 110V to charge it overnight. It's our commuter car. Typically do 40-60 miles per day. I went with the eGolf over other EVs (Leaf, i3, etc.) because it still looks like a normal car.

How much was the lease?

$160/mo includes taxes, prepaid maintenance and wear & tear protection.

eta: $4,688 due at signing less $2,500 CA rebate = $2,188.

How much has your electric bill gone up?

Haven't received it yet, but a friend that has a Leaf says his bill went up about $30.

 

[cstu]

I'm getting more intrigued the by the Chevy Volt due out by the end of the year:

Pros:

- $30,000 after $7,500 tax credit

- 200 mile range

- 90 mile range with a 30 minute charge on the fast charger

- 200 hp/266 torque (0-60 under 7 seconds)

- Interior space the size of Tesla S (94 cubit feet)

Cons:

- Won't look as good as a Tesla 3 due out sometime in 2017.

 

[Apple Juice]

I'll be ready for a new vehicle in a couple years and plan on getting the new Tesla. I think Tesla is the company that is going to revolutionize travel. It'll be exciting to buy one. Hopefully the quality adds up to longevity.

Gasoline is finite. The shift away from it has to happen eventually no matter what the effects on economies are. It's interesting to be around as humanity turns the corner.

 

[Mr. Ected]

I leased a VW eGolf last week (3 yrs, 10,000 mi/yr). Love it so far. I use a normal 110V to charge it overnight. It's our commuter car. Typically do 40-60 miles per day. I went with the eGolf over other EVs (Leaf, i3, etc.) because it still looks like a normal car.

How much was the lease?

$160/mo includes taxes, prepaid maintenance and wear & tear protection.

eta: $4,688 due at signing less $2,500 CA rebate = $2,188.

I could be all over that here in a year or so when I'm ready for my new vehicle... assuming they still have deals like that. Wow.

How much does the device cost that you install in your house so that you can recharge the vehicle?

 

[NutterButter]

3/31 we get a look at the model 3. $35k without the rebates is a pretty sweet price.

Christ, Coloroda has a $6k credit on top of the $7.5k federal credit.

 

[[icon]]

3/31 we get a look at the model 3. $35k without the rebates is a pretty sweet price.

Christ, Coloroda has a $6k credit on top of the $7.5k federal credit.

If they are decently equipped at $35k before credits, tesla is going to sell a ####LOAD of these things.

 

[jabarony]

I leased a VW eGolf last week (3 yrs, 10,000 mi/yr). Love it so far. I use a normal 110V to charge it overnight. It's our commuter car. Typically do 40-60 miles per day. I went with the eGolf over other EVs (Leaf, i3, etc.) because it still looks like a normal car.

How much was the lease?

$160/mo includes taxes, prepaid maintenance and wear & tear protection.

eta: $4,688 due at signing less $2,500 CA rebate = $2,188.

How much has your electric bill gone up?

Haven't received it yet, but a friend that has a Leaf says his bill went up about $30.

Estimate based on all Evs and various kWh rates, but the eMPG cost works out to 0.35 - 0.45 gas.

 

[The Goat]

I'm sure folks already know this but the "batteries" that make these electric and hybrids typically run, the amount of energy it takes or planet footprint let's call it, just as bad if not worse with the electric vehicles.

First, great sentence.

Second, this is not true.

Until the largest source for producing electricity is no longer fossil fuels, yes it is.