Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
"EMP Could kill US Power Grid" - House Committee Report (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter [icon]
- Start date
But, as Foreign Policy reported, a former PG&E vice president for transmission operations said at a conference last November that "these were not amateurs taking potshots."
Not a conspiracy guy but it would seem that the fact that no one was caught makes me think the gov't could have done this to make the utility companies address their lackadaisical security. Which was a success apparently.
Whether it was or wasn't an act of terrorism, the Journal says that "as word of the attack spread through the utility industry, some companies moved swiftly to review their security efforts. 'We're looking at things differently now,' said Michele Campanella, an FBI veteran who is director of security for Consolidated Edison Inc. in New York. For example, she said, Con Ed changed the angles of some of its 1,200 security cameras 'so we don't have any blind spots.' "
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
that's UNBELIEVABLE!
Foosball God
Foos
@Doctor Detroit is in Puerto Rico helping people on an island that is without power. I'm sure he will have some interesting insights.Obviously.
Are you implying that since no-one's grid is hardened, we shouldn't consider this to be a threat?
FYI this thread isn't intended to imply that this attack is imminent, it's to discuss the feasibility and potential outcomes. If you feel that there's no threat, that's fine. You are welcome to leave the discussion to the rest of us.
EDIT: @Doctor Detroit, would love your take on this overall issue.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Meh.
The chances of another country doing this to us in my lifetime are pretty small.
On the other hand, the chances of the sun doing it to us in my lifetime are far more concerning. The solar storm of 1859, if it occurred today, would cause so much damage to the power grid it would take years to restore it. Back then it just destroyed the telegraph system.
ETA: I see Walking Boot pointed this out.
The chances of another country doing this to us in my lifetime are pretty small.
On the other hand, the chances of the sun doing it to us in my lifetime are far more concerning. The solar storm of 1859, if it occurred today, would cause so much damage to the power grid it would take years to restore it. Back then it just destroyed the telegraph system.
ETA: I see Walking Boot pointed this out.
Last edited by a moderator:
Koya
Footballguy
Russia ('likely') has sponsored ads aimed to sow distrust and raise racial and ideological tensions here. They want to cause confusion and seed doubt... especially between and among fellow Americans. You don't think a well timed attack on our grid wouldn't further that strategy?
This is just part of the new warfare, and we best prepare for it.
The General
Footballguy
Been mentioned a ton already but “One Second After” was a fun read.
If you like this genre “Lights Out” by David Crawford was pretty good as well. A bit more preachy but entertaining.
Scary stuff.
If you like this genre “Lights Out” by David Crawford was pretty good as well. A bit more preachy but entertaining.
Scary stuff.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
They were both helped by people with power. Now imagine no one has power. Literally, no one.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
No doubt. Definitely part of the reason I tagged him. Luckily Puerto Rico is a small group of people receiving ####loads of aid and assistance (thank God).. they have a very long hard road ahead of them.
Koya
Footballguy
There is power going out and POWER GOING OUT.
During Sandy we didn't have power for 10 days. It was miserable. No cell service for a good part of that.
But ya know what? Between generators and areas of the country that you know, did have power, we slogged through. Some people moved for a couple weeks, some just dealt.
A country wide grid going down, with it most travel other than by car - IF you can get gas? Along with all the other dominos that would fall?
Not comparable to regional outages.
Closest thing is Puerto Rico, right now. It doesn't sound as if they are doing well, but let's be honest, many with means are in the one area with electricity and/or came mainland and those left didn't exactly feel entitled to the luxuries of life that most of us flat out depend upon.
That said, I think, generally, you'd see communities come together. But if I'm a not so well minded dude in a portion of society whereby I feel the man has screwed me over t entire life? I could see pockets of major unrest and in this divisive climate, I'm not sure exactly where that might lead. Some cities band together others potentially torn apart (or just sections burned down as we've seen so sadly in the past)
Last edited by a moderator:
[icon]
Insoxicated
No doubt.
I introduced the issue with a NK mention, but was definitely going to transition to the Carrington Event as some dug in heels against it being a terrestrial attack.
We're already seeing small scale RF / EMP attacks. Should be interesting.
But when people mock rational-level preppers (not folks that go nuts with it), I think of stuff like this...
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Of course, as I noted.
And to be honest, if the entire country was without power for an extended period of time....which I still say is EXTREMELY unlikely and really shouldn't be a concern to your average everyday person...you'll need a whole hell of a lot more than a shotgun.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
A solar storm of this magnitude occurring today would cause widespread disruptions and damage to a modern and technology-dependent society
Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed, in some cases giving telegraph operators electric shocks.[15] Telegraph pylons threw sparks.[16] Some telegraph operators could continue to send and receive messages despite having disconnected their power supplies.[17]
Many scientists believe the sun has done this to the earth thousands of times throughout history. It probably happens on average about once every 100 years. It last happened 158 years ago, which was the first time mankind was using electricity in any capacity during the storm. Today our society relies on electricity far more than simply sending morse code messages.
Would you be more concerned with this occuring compared to someone detonating a suitcase nuke somewhere in the US?
Politician Spock
Footballguy
As I said in my first post in this thread "The chances of another country doing this to us in my lifetime are pretty small. On the other hand, the chances of the sun doing it to us in my lifetime are far more concerning."
roadkill1292
Footballguy
It was a fascinating fictional story but it reads like swc edited it. (No offense, gb, love your, uh, unique style)
TheFanatic
Footballguy
All of this seems unlikely as the most likely people to do something like this are Russia and China but they are too dependent on our economy. We go down and they go into a massive tailspin economically. But a nation like NK that has no dependency on our economy or foreign aid and groups like Anonymous are what we need to worry about.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I would think that if the government was behind this, they wouldn't have suppressed it from the media indefinitely. Had they informed all the energy companies of this but not the general public, I would have to think that with that many people knowing about it, something would've been leaked.lod001 said:
PIK95
Footballguy
"A pinch is a device which creates, like, a cardiac arrest for any broadband electrical circuitry. Better yet, a pinch is a bomb - now, but without the bomb. See, when a nuclear weapon detonates, it unleashes an electromagnetic pulse which shuts down any power source within its blast radius. Now that tends not to matter in most cases, because the nuclear weapon usually destroys anything you might need power for anyway. But see, a pinch creates a similar electromagnetic pulse, but without the fuss of mass destruction and death. So instead of Hiroshima, you'd be getting the seventeenth century." :Basher:
culdeus
Footballguy
To my mind the biggest risk in an EMP strike or solar flare type event today is non volatile memory. The vast majority of the other risks are overblown. In most systems non volatile memory is the backup for source code in safety critical applications. I could see lots of cheap personal electronics going down hard though. NVM is used alot in handshake ID and things. Even stuff like pacemakers and crap.
culdeus
Footballguy
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
So there is a whole lot of pants crapping going on here. Does anyone have any suggestions about what we do about it? Aside from arming up and stocking MRE's of course?
TheFanatic
Footballguy
The biggest issues you'd be looking at are water, security and heat, not necessarily in that order. If you live in a warm climate, you may not have to worry about heat. If this were to happen in the summer, maybe heat isn't an issue either.
Water is the biggest issue. If something like this were to happen, the vast majority of deaths wouldn't be from starvation, it would be water borne illnesses. A $20 life straw could go a long way.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
I meant more "what can we do about our ghetto grid" but I like the cut of your jib, doomsday picker.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Not much. I worked for the last three years for one of the bigger electrical providers in the country and one that got a lot of its power from nuclear. Most electrical companies offload the delivery aspect of the grid to other companies, wanting to focus on the making of the energy more than the delivery of said power. See, maintaining those lines and substations is really expensive. A large chunk of that is managed by companies that don't make the power and thus don't make as much money. Trying to tack on extra security of said substations is not going to happen until we have a major catastrophe. Particularly when the NERC board is made up of this countries energy companies. That's right, the board that was created to help keep our electrical grid secure, is comprised of the companies that have to secure it. So we have the foxes guarding the hen house. We won't see any fix until a major catastrophe happens because the fox likes guarding the hens. We are not proactive in the way we regulate and govern. That's not how this country works. We are not proactive. We are reactive. So you may want to rethink that Life Straw.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
10/4 on the straws. Since we would all like to avoid some sort of electrical outage apocalypse (wasn't there a tv show about this a few years back? @El Floppo?) why wouldn't we funnel some federal dollars toward upgrading the grid? Is it even possible to upgrade the grid to withstand an EMP?
TheFanatic
Footballguy
It is possible, and wouldn't cost all that much, but it would have to be done by everyone. Everyone would have to agree to set aside some dollars, time and effort to get it done. If everyone doesn't do it, and some substations go down, they can overwhelm substations down the line that might've been hardened against an EMP but can't handle the energy from the ones that weren't and it's the same thing. Weakest Link basically.
And it doesn't take an EMP. Those guys that attacked a substation in california shot at the car sized cooling units from 1,000 yards away with AK47's which are by no means sniper rifles. They disabled the cooling systems and it was only a matter of time before the systems overheated. Most of these substations are in very rural areas (where land is cheap to build them and easy to acquire) and the security is only a few video cameras and maybe a guard, and the cameras are pointed in on the equipment. The only evidence that security system provided that there was an attack were sparks from bullets striking the fence and holes that appeared in the cooling systems.
In other words, all these power deliver companies need to harden against EMP as well as dramatically up the security of these facilities. The EMP's are actually easier to protect against.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
I used to store food and water, but then came to realize that if I had food and water and my neighbors didn't, the government would confiscate my food ans water using the argument that doing so is for the public good, whereas me hoarding it for me and my family is not. So other than going into compete isolation, like a secured underground bunker, there is nothing individuals can do to prepare for such, unless they are cool with the government dibursing it amongst those who didn't prepare.
[icon]
Insoxicated
Similar threads
