Eric Ebron owners, this should excite you... (1 Viewer)

[Da Gildz]

[SIZE=14.5pt]Report: Eric Ebron could line up in slot most of the time[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]by Larry Hartstein | CBSSports.com[/SIZE]

[SIZE=7pt](12:00 pm ET)[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] The Lions will run a lot of two-tight end sets with rookie Eric Ebronhttp://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/players/playerpage/1865396 lining up in the slot "perhaps as much as two-thirds of the time[/SIZE]," reports MLive.com. Brandon Pettigrew will be the in-line blocker.

[SIZE=small]New offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi, formerly of the Saints, "saw how a pass-catching tight end such as Jimmy Graham could dice up a defense, and that is what the Lions have planned for Ebron," the paper said[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]I realize rookie TE's usually disappoint but how many get drafted and fall into this type of situation (prolific passing offense coupled with ex Jimmy Graham coach from New Orleans) ??[/SIZE]

 

[False Start]

[SIZE=14.5pt]Report: Eric Ebron could line up in slot most of the time[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]by Larry Hartstein | CBSSports.com[/SIZE]

[SIZE=7pt](12:00 pm ET)[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] The Lions will run a lot of two-tight end sets with rookie Eric Ebronhttp://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/players/playerpage/1865396 lining up in the slot "perhaps as much as two-thirds of the time[/SIZE]," reports MLive.com. Brandon Pettigrew will be the in-line blocker.

[SIZE=small]New offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi, formerly of the Saints, "saw how a pass-catching tight end such as Jimmy Graham could dice up a defense, and that is what the Lions have planned for Ebron," the paper said[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]I realize rookie TE's usually disappoint but how many get drafted and fall into this type of situation (prolific passing offense coupled with ex Jimmy Graham coach from New Orleans) ??[/SIZE]

Amaro just fell into the same situation, lots of mouths to feed in Detroit. Calvin, Tate, Bush, Bell and Ebron plus he is going to have Pettigrew take some TE reps. He has a ton of upside and will be a great TE eventually,.

 

[EBF]

[SIZE=small]I realize rookie TE's usually disappoint but how many get drafted and fall into this type of situation (prolific passing offense coupled with ex Jimmy Graham coach from New Orleans) ??[/SIZE]

It's an interesting question. People have talked about how Jordan Reed's rookie year was insanely good for a TE, but to me that's a little deceptive because Jordan Reed is essentially a slot WR. His stats were still really impressive, but they become slightly less so if you realize that he was playing WR for all intents and purposes.

Likewise, if Ebron spends less time blocking and more time as a dedicated receiver then I think that will only increase his chances of having a useful rookie year.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

[SIZE=small]how many get drafted and fall into this type of situation (prolific passing offense coupled with ex Jimmy Graham coach from New Orleans) ??[/SIZE]

I haven't put any research into it, but my guess is "one".

 

[Dr. Octopus]

It's an interesting question. People have talked about how Jordan Reed's rookie year was insanely good for a TE, but to me that's a little deceptive because Jordan Reed is essentially a slot WR. His stats were still really impressive, but they become slightly less so if you realize that he was playing WR for all intents and purposes.

Why does that matter, if he's going to be listed as a TE again this year?

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Is this one of those hype trains where you draft a guy and then do your best to fill in the blanks and cheer him on?

 

[cloppbeast]

[SIZE=14.5pt]Report: Eric Ebron could line up in slot most of the time[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]by Larry Hartstein | CBSSports.com[/SIZE]

[SIZE=7pt](12:00 pm ET)[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] The Lions will run a lot of two-tight end sets with rookie Eric Ebronhttp://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/players/playerpage/1865396 lining up in the slot "perhaps as much as two-thirds of the time[/SIZE]," reports MLive.com. Brandon Pettigrew will be the in-line blocker.

[SIZE=small]New offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi, formerly of the Saints, "saw how a pass-catching tight end such as Jimmy Graham could dice up a defense, and that is what the Lions have planned for Ebron," the paper said[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]I realize rookie TE's usually disappoint but how many get drafted and fall into this type of situation (prolific passing offense coupled with ex Jimmy Graham coach from New Orleans) ??[/SIZE]

Most of the people who liked Ebron probably already expected Lombardi to use him in the slot most of the time. I would imagine he'd use the same strategies as his old boss. Whether Ebron emerges as a player talented as Graham remains to be seen, but he will likely fill the same role in the Lions offense as long as Lombardi calls plays.

 

[menobrown]

It's an interesting question. People have talked about how Jordan Reed's rookie year was insanely good for a TE, but to me that's a little deceptive because Jordan Reed is essentially a slot WR. His stats were still really impressive, but they become slightly less so if you realize that he was playing WR for all intents and purposes.

Why does that matter, if he's going to be listed as a TE again this year?

It's easier to make an impact as rookie playing the slot then traditional in-line TE mainly by reducing the responsiblities of blocking. Has nothing to do with positional eligiblity for fantasy football.

 

[menobrown]

[SIZE=14.5pt]Report: Eric Ebron could line up in slot most of the time[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]by Larry Hartstein | CBSSports.com[/SIZE]

[SIZE=7pt](12:00 pm ET)[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] The Lions will run a lot of two-tight end sets with rookie Eric Ebronhttp://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/players/playerpage/1865396 lining up in the slot "perhaps as much as two-thirds of the time[/SIZE]," reports MLive.com. Brandon Pettigrew will be the in-line blocker.

[SIZE=small]New offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi, formerly of the Saints, "saw how a pass-catching tight end such as Jimmy Graham could dice up a defense, and that is what the Lions have planned for Ebron," the paper said[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]I realize rookie TE's usually disappoint but how many get drafted and fall into this type of situation (prolific passing offense coupled with ex Jimmy Graham coach from New Orleans) ??[/SIZE]

Amaro just fell into the same situation, lots of mouths to feed in Detroit. Calvin, Tate, Bush, Bell and Ebron plus he is going to have Pettigrew take some TE reps. He has a ton of upside and will be a great TE eventually,.

I like Amaro but other then possibly also playing a lot out of the slot nothing about his situation is really like Ebrons.

Amaro has Geno throwing him the ball, Ebron has Stafford.

Amaro had Decker and who knows what at WR2 to help open up space. Ebron has Calvin and Tate. Ebron also has better pass catching RB's which helps open up space.

Ebron plays in system that is generally among the league leaders in both pass attempts and TE targets. Amaro plays in a system that is generally in the bottom half of both.

 

[dickey moe]

Amaro having Geno throwing him the ball could be a good thing for Amaro. Geno relied a lot on Winslow last season (at least early on).

 

[Da Gildz]

If Ebron is playing the slot the majority of snaps, he's essentially a WR3/4 but getting 1.5 PPR (FFPC). Very intriguing as a lowend TE1/TE2

 

[jurb26]

I like Amaro but other then possibly also playing a lot out of the slot nothing about his situation is really like Ebrons.

Amaro has Geno throwing him the ball, Ebron has Stafford.

Amaro had Decker and who knows what at WR2 to help open up space. Ebron has Calvin and Tate. Ebron also has better pass catching RB's which helps open up space.

Ebron plays in system that is generally among the league leaders in both pass attempts and TE targets. Amaro plays in a system that is generally in the bottom half of both.

I like Ebron's situation more but I don't agree with all the points here and feel some where left out. Stafford > Geno, no doubt.

Det > NYJ, as far as passing attempts and opp, again no doubt.

Det WR > NYJ WR, no argument there but do we really know that is better for Ebron? I'm not sure. It could mean more targets for Amaro.

Det RB > NYJ RB, as far as pass catchers yeah. O argument there. I think this is reason to like Amaro though.

The part left out is that Pettirgrew, while disappointing, is not going away. He's a better all a round TR right now than Ebron and he wil still be on the field and steal targets. There are suddenly a ton of mouths to feed in Det. We know Calvin will get his but the rest is kind of up in the air a bit.

 

[menobrown]

I like Amaro but other then possibly also playing a lot out of the slot nothing about his situation is really like Ebrons.

Amaro has Geno throwing him the ball, Ebron has Stafford.

Amaro had Decker and who knows what at WR2 to help open up space. Ebron has Calvin and Tate. Ebron also has better pass catching RB's which helps open up space.

Ebron plays in system that is generally among the league leaders in both pass attempts and TE targets. Amaro plays in a system that is generally in the bottom half of both.

I like Ebron's situation more but I don't agree with all the points here and feel some where left out.Stafford > Geno, no doubt.

Det > NYJ, as far as passing attempts and opp, again no doubt.

Det WR > NYJ WR, no argument there but do we really know that is better for Ebron? I'm not sure. It could mean more targets for Amaro.

Det RB > NYJ RB, as far as pass catchers yeah. O argument there. I think this is reason to like Amaro though.

The part left out is that Pettirgrew, while disappointing, is not going away. He's a better all a round TR right now than Ebron and he wil still be on the field and steal targets. There are suddenly a ton of mouths to feed in Det. We know Calvin will get his but the rest is kind of up in the air a bit.

That's another part of why Ebron playing the slot is key. Ebron's is not just competing against Pettigrew for TE snaps, he's competing against the third WR for slot duties.

Everything negative you seem to mention is in regards to Ebron not getting enough targets but there are two counters to that and both are kind of big IMO. As mentioned this OC comes from a system that heavily utilizes the TE and that started way before Graham ever got to New Orleans. The second item regarding his usage is something I'd have to point to where he was drafted. I think it matters. I don't think you spend the 10th overall pick on him when you some big needs on the defensive side of the ball if the plan was not to heavily involve him. I mean if he's not up the task they'll adjust, but I think the design is to make him a feautured part of the offense, to create mismatches.

 

[ffgiant]

To me, Ebron is high risk in redraft league, the reward is not quite as high. I probably won't be comfortable drafting him among top TEs.

 

[Donnybrook]

The more I hear about Eric Ebron, the more I root for Joseph Fauria.

 

[georg013]

The arguments against him producing early seem far fetched to me. Almost a reach. No way would I touch Amaro who is struggling to remain on the field because he is so lost. There are lots to go around in Detroit and Ebron will eat!!!!

 

[False Start]

The arguments against him producing early seem far fetched to me. Almost a reach. No way would I touch Amaro who is struggling to remain on the field because he is so lost. There are lots to go around in Detroit and Ebron will eat!!!!

You clearly listen to everything to read on Rotoworld. Just a week before they were building him up. lol

 

[Ilov80s]

Ebron definitely has the chance to produce the best rookie TE numbers we have seen since Gronk. It's unlikely, but it is a rare combo of talent, opportunity and offense.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Following cross-posted from the other Ebron (best landing spot) thread.

The scout quotes from Bob McGinn's article at the Sentinel-Journal (courtesy of Faust):

ERIC EBRON, North Carolina (6-4½, 252, 4.58, 1) Third-year junior often compared to the 49ers' Vernon Davis. "Vernon is more sudden and compact," said one scout. "Twitchy. Eric's fluid. Where Eric makes his mark is being deceptive, running in gears and transitioning well in and out of breaks. I think he has special hands. You see him making one-handed palm of the ball in traffic. He has a chance to be an exceptional player, especially the way the game's played now." Two-year starter with 112 catches for 1,805 yards (16.1) and eight TDs. "He's a top-10 talent," another scout said. "He's as talented a tight end as has come out in the last five years." Played most of his career flanked wide or in the slot. "He's not a great big bulky guy but he'll block," another scout said. "Watch him against (Jadeveon) Clowney. He didn't win but he wasn't afraid. He's (Rob) Gronkowski-like but he's a lot smoother." From Greensboro, N.C. "In this new-fangled tight end position he can stretch the field and be a matchup issue," a third scout said. "He's better than (Jermichael) Finley and (Tyler) Eifert." Wonderlic of 16.

Vernon Davis is the stock comp for Ebron. He isn't as freakish a physical specimen and athlete (Davis arguably like a Calvin Johnson among TEs, physically and athletically), but may be a more fluid, natural and polished pass catcher at a comparable stage of development.

Davis was the last previous top 10 overall TE (1.6 in 2006), and Ebron broke his ACC receiving yardage record for a TE in 2013.

DET seems like a great destination. Pettigrew will likely block a lot in 2 TE sets (base?). Tate should be good enough to take some pressure off Calvin Johnson and Ebron, but not so good as to be an obstacle to Ebron being the clear second most important receiving weapon on the team, long term (imo). Most rookie TEs struggle, but I like his dynasty prospects in a year or two.

With Johnson, Ebron and Tate (not to mention RB Bush), Stafford could have a shot at 5,000 yards. If that transpires, Ebron will be well positioned for production if he becomes the clear future #2 target in the passing attack, and receptions aren't too distributed across the WRs after Johnson.

* In his Sports Science segment, he graded higher than Davis (just below Tony Gonzalez), tested with a larger effective catching radius than Gronkowski and had the quickest acceleration (shortest time to top speed) they have ever measured at the position.


** Ebron could have some positional upside, other than Pop Warner, he didn't play until his junior year in high school. He was such a good athlete, despite not having played yet (before his junior season), after a work out at North Carolina, then-HC Butch Davis offered him a scholarship on the spot.*** Matt Waldman's Futures scouting profile, from last October.

http://www.footballo...c-te-eric-ebron

**** Vernon Davis (wiki bio)

"He finished his college career with 1371 yards on 83 receptions for 16.5 yards per catch, the best average of any first round tight end ever and more yards than other previous high first round tight ends such as Tony Gonzalez, Jeremy Shockey, Kyle Brady and Kellen Winslow II."

Ebron's career reception and receiving yardage numbers were 105-1,727 = 16.45 average.

 

[Bob Magaw]

There were some scouts that thought Sammy Watkins and Eric Ebron were the two best receiving weapons in the draft. Historically top WRs are drafted higher than top TEs. While Watkins has been called the best WR prospect since AJ Green and Julio Jones, Ebron is the first top 10 TE since Vernon Davis, so he is arguably a more rare talent, independent of position. Since he is expected to be used like a WR at times, we can note he went three picks after the consensus #2 WR Evans and two picks before consensus #3 WR OBJ. Ebron (6'5", 245 lbs. & 4.6 40) is as tall as Evans (6'5", 230 lbs. & 4.53 40), 15 lbs. heavier and nearly as fast. Evans does have huge positional upside, too, imo, Ebron didn't play competitively until his Junior year, Evans until his senior year (and one less year of college), but Ebron may have even more fluid movement skills, crisp footwork and route running skills for a big man.

Standard disclaimer - I like Ebron far more in dynasty, where I think he is an elite, blue chip prospect, far less in redraft, at a position where young prospects historically take a while before they begin to figure things out.

Eric Ebron Can Be the Final Piece in Detroit Lions' Arsenal
By Cian Fahey, May 26, 2014

http://bleacherrepor...t-lions-arsenal

Eric Ebron, Ladarius Green among young tight ends to watch

http://www.nfl.com/n...t-ends-to-watch

"Ebron broke Vernion Davis' single-season record for receiving yards by a tight end in the ACC in 2013, collecting 895 yards -- and it's no coincidence that he has Vernon Davis-type skills, plus better hands. The 6-foot-4, 250-pound speedster was inspired by Graham's situation to recently argue that his position should be redefined as a "hybrid" or "joker," but regardless of what he's called, he'll be a matchup nightmare. Ebron can play outside, like a receiver, and has enough route-running ability to scare opponents. He figures to rack up yards after the catch.

Between Ebron and Golden Tate, the Lions look to finally have some legitimate options to support super-weapon Calvin Johnson."

* A lot has been made of the new DET OC's background and how he has already gone on record and stated his intent to use Ebron in SOME ways like NO used Jimmy Graham. But we could also look at HC Caldwell's background, who spent a lot of years in IND (more recently, Dennis Pitta had a breakout 61-669-7 campaign in 2012). In Dallas Clark's three most injury-free seasons (from 28-30 in 2007-2009, when he only missed one game in each of the first two seasons), he was a combined 235-2,570-27, including a career best 100-1,106-10 in 2009. Reggie Wayne had 100-1,264-10 the same season. Even Jacob Tamme had 67-631-4 in just the last 10 games of 2010 (eight starts), which would have prorated to 107-1,010-6. Not saying Stafford is Manning, just that the TE was an integral part of the Colts passing attack at times.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

did this get posted?

The biggest knock on Detroit Lions tight end Eric Ebron through off-season workouts and the first two days of training camp has been an inordinate number of dropped passes that have negated his big-play ability.

Ebron dropped a well-placed Matthew Stafford pass in seven-on-seven drills Tuesday and had an 11.4% drop rate as a junior at North Carolina last year according to Rotoworld,

http://www.freep.com/article/20140730/SPORTS01/307300097

 

[Bob Magaw]

On drops.

http://distinctathlete.com/will-eric-ebron-be-ready-to-impact-the-lions-in-week-1/

Drops are always going to be part of the equation with Eric Ebron. But that doesn’t make him unusual among big, talented receivers.

Pro Football Focus (subscription required) tracks receiver drops religiously, and some of the names that appear with the most drops are some of the best receivers in the game:

• Brandon Marshall
• Vincent Jackson
• Dez Bryant
• A.J. Green
• Andre Jonson
• Calvin Johnson

All of those top-shelf talents finished in the top 10 in total drops in 2013. Calvin Johnson, Marshall and Bryant finished in the top 10 in 2012 as well.

The most direct comparable player to Ebron, Saints hybrid tight end/receiver Jimmy Graham, had an ugly 15 drops in 2012.

Those players make enough positive plays to more than compensate for the ones that inexplicably slip through their hands. That is what the Lions are hoping for with Ebron.

* Of course, higher volume WRs would be expected to have more drops.

 

[cstu]

On drops.

http://distinctathlete.com/will-eric-ebron-be-ready-to-impact-the-lions-in-week-1/

Drops are always going to be part of the equation with Eric Ebron. But that doesn’t make him unusual among big, talented receivers.

Pro Football Focus (subscription required) tracks receiver drops religiously, and some of the names that appear with the most drops are some of the best receivers in the game:

• Brandon Marshall
• Vincent Jackson
• Dez Bryant
• A.J. Green
• Andre Jonson
• Calvin Johnson

All of those top-shelf talents finished in the top 10 in total drops in 2013. Calvin Johnson, Marshall and Bryant finished in the top 10 in 2012 as well.

The most direct comparable player to Ebron, Saints hybrid tight end/receiver Jimmy Graham, had an ugly 15 drops in 2012.

Those players make enough positive plays to more than compensate for the ones that inexplicably slip through their hands. That is what the Lions are hoping for with Ebron.

* Of course, higher volume WRs would be expected to have more drops.

Yards per target (YPT) isn't a popular way to evaluate receivers, but I think it comes down to that for playing time. If a player drops a lot of passes then they need to make up for it with a high YPR when they do catch the ball. Ultimately, teams want to move the ball as efficiently as possible and receivers with high YPT are going to get the ball more.

 

[jurb26]

On drops.

http://distinctathlete.com/will-eric-ebron-be-ready-to-impact-the-lions-in-week-1/

Drops are always going to be part of the equation with Eric Ebron. But that doesn’t make him unusual among big, talented receivers.

Pro Football Focus (subscription required) tracks receiver drops religiously, and some of the names that appear with the most drops are some of the best receivers in the game:

• Brandon Marshall
• Vincent Jackson
• Dez Bryant
• A.J. Green
• Andre Jonson
• Calvin Johnson

All of those top-shelf talents finished in the top 10 in total drops in 2013. Calvin Johnson, Marshall and Bryant finished in the top 10 in 2012 as well.The most direct comparable player to Ebron, Saints hybrid tight end/receiver Jimmy Graham, had an ugly 15 drops in 2012.

Those players make enough positive plays to more than compensate for the ones that inexplicably slip through their hands. That is what the Lions are hoping for with Ebron.

* Of course, higher volume WRs would be expected to have more drops.

Drop rate is the only thing that matters. Some of the guys are only there because the get do many passes. Others are there because they drop a decent % of them, Marshall and Calvin. IMO a drop rate over 6% is poor for a WR. For RBs I'd raise it to 7.5. TEs, 7. Nothing really concrete about my numbers. Just what seems about right looking over the numbers year after year.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

On drops.

http://distinctathlete.com/will-eric-ebron-be-ready-to-impact-the-lions-in-week-1/

Drops are always going to be part of the equation with Eric Ebron. But that doesn’t make him unusual among big, talented receivers.

Pro Football Focus (subscription required) tracks receiver drops religiously, and some of the names that appear with the most drops are some of the best receivers in the game: EDIT: along with their targets and league rank in targets

• Brandon Marshall 164 / 5th
• Vincent Jackson 160 / 6th
• Dez Bryant 159 / 7th
• A.J. Green 178 / 3rd
• Andre Jonson 181 / 2nd
• Calvin Johnson 156 / 9th

All of those top-shelf talents finished in the top 10 in total drops in 2013. Calvin Johnson, Marshall and Bryant finished in the top 10 in 2012 as well.

The most direct comparable player to Ebron, Saints hybrid tight end/receiver Jimmy Graham, had an ugly 15 drops in 2012.

Those players make enough positive plays to more than compensate for the ones that inexplicably slip through their hands. That is what the Lions are hoping for with Ebron.

* Of course, higher volume WRs would be expected to have more drops.

so, you've shown us guys in the top 10 in drops are also in the top 10 in targets, or opportunities for drops --- thx

if I expected ebron to get 180 targets I probably wouldn't care too much about drops

 

[Bob Magaw]

On drops.

http://distinctathlete.com/will-eric-ebron-be-ready-to-impact-the-lions-in-week-1/

Drops are always going to be part of the equation with Eric Ebron. But that doesn’t make him unusual among big, talented receivers.

Pro Football Focus (subscription required) tracks receiver drops religiously, and some of the names that appear with the most drops are some of the best receivers in the game:

• Brandon Marshall
• Vincent Jackson
• Dez Bryant
• A.J. Green
• Andre Jonson
• Calvin Johnson

All of those top-shelf talents finished in the top 10 in total drops in 2013. Calvin Johnson, Marshall and Bryant finished in the top 10 in 2012 as well.

The most direct comparable player to Ebron, Saints hybrid tight end/receiver Jimmy Graham, had an ugly 15 drops in 2012.

Those players make enough positive plays to more than compensate for the ones that inexplicably slip through their hands. That is what the Lions are hoping for with Ebron.

* Of course, higher volume WRs would be expected to have more drops.

Yards per target (YPT) isn't a popular way to evaluate receivers, but I think it comes down to that for playing time. If a player drops a lot of passes then they need to make up for it with a high YPR when they do catch the ball. Ultimately, teams want to move the ball as efficiently as possible and receivers with high YPT are going to get the ball more.

Good post.

I don't know what his YPT is, but this was noted above. Vernon Davis had the highest yards per catch mark of any first round TE in NCAA history, and Ebron was just a whisker under that (.05 yard).

Vernon Davis (wiki bio)

"He finished his college career with 1371 yards on 83 receptions for 16.5 yards per catch, the best average of any first round tight end ever and more yards than other previous high first round tight ends such as Tony Gonzalez, Jeremy Shockey, Kyle Brady and Kellen Winslow II."

Ebron's career reception and receiving yardage numbers were 105-1,727 = 16.45 average.

 

[Bob Magaw]

On drops.

http://distinctathlete.com/will-eric-ebron-be-ready-to-impact-the-lions-in-week-1/

Drops are always going to be part of the equation with Eric Ebron. But that doesn’t make him unusual among big, talented receivers.

Pro Football Focus (subscription required) tracks receiver drops religiously, and some of the names that appear with the most drops are some of the best receivers in the game: EDIT: along with their targets and league rank in targets

• Brandon Marshall 164 / 5th
• Vincent Jackson 160 / 6th
• Dez Bryant 159 / 7th
• A.J. Green 178 / 3rd
• Andre Jonson 181 / 2nd
• Calvin Johnson 156 / 9th

All of those top-shelf talents finished in the top 10 in total drops in 2013. Calvin Johnson, Marshall and Bryant finished in the top 10 in 2012 as well.

The most direct comparable player to Ebron, Saints hybrid tight end/receiver Jimmy Graham, had an ugly 15 drops in 2012.

Those players make enough positive plays to more than compensate for the ones that inexplicably slip through their hands. That is what the Lions are hoping for with Ebron.

* Of course, higher volume WRs would be expected to have more drops.

so, you've shown us guys in the top 10 in drops are also in the top 10 in targets, or opportunities for drops --- thx

if I expected ebron to get 180 targets I probably wouldn't care too much about drops

Like I said, high volume WRs would be expected to have more drops, but thanks for repeating that in case anybody missed it the first time.

http://www.kffl.com/fantasy-football/targets/

I didn't vet the Graham drop stat above (15 in 2012?)*, but the above link had Graham with 135 targets that season (in which he was the #1 TE).

DETs new OC is from NO. From a post-draft press conference.

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2014/5/9/5699608/2014-nfl-draft-jim-caldwell-joe-lombardi-eric-ebron-pick

On if Ebron's likeness to Saints TE Jimmy Graham makes it easier to install some of the plays he brought from New Orleans: "I think it helps some things. They are not exactly the same players, but they are both very athletic guys. Jimmy has a little bit more length, while Eric has a little more quickness. There are some things that we did with Jimmy in New Orleans that we will be able to do with Eric, and maybe some things we can do with Eric that we didn't do with Jimmy. They are both unique, but he (Ebron) is going to have a pretty big role in what we plan on doing."

Drops weren't a death blow to Graham's career, they might not be for Ebron, either.

* Graham was the #1 TE in 2012 and 2013 with 135 (third) and 140 (first) targets, respectively.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

On drops.

http://distinctathlete.com/will-eric-ebron-be-ready-to-impact-the-lions-in-week-1/

Drops are always going to be part of the equation with Eric Ebron. But that doesn’t make him unusual among big, talented receivers.

Pro Football Focus (subscription required) tracks receiver drops religiously, and some of the names that appear with the most drops are some of the best receivers in the game: EDIT: along with their targets and league rank in targets

• Brandon Marshall 164 / 5th
• Vincent Jackson 160 / 6th
• Dez Bryant 159 / 7th
• A.J. Green 178 / 3rd
• Andre Jonson 181 / 2nd
• Calvin Johnson 156 / 9th

All of those top-shelf talents finished in the top 10 in total drops in 2013. Calvin Johnson, Marshall and Bryant finished in the top 10 in 2012 as well.

The most direct comparable player to Ebron, Saints hybrid tight end/receiver Jimmy Graham, had an ugly 15 drops in 2012.

Those players make enough positive plays to more than compensate for the ones that inexplicably slip through their hands. That is what the Lions are hoping for with Ebron.

* Of course, higher volume WRs would be expected to have more drops.

so, you've shown us guys in the top 10 in drops are also in the top 10 in targets, or opportunities for drops --- thx

if I expected ebron to get 180 targets I probably wouldn't care too much about drops

Like I said, high volume WRs would be expected to have more drops, but thanks for repeating that in case anybody missed it the first time.

which would make it an entirely pointless list, so why post it at all like it means something?

thx for making me repeat myself

 

[Bob Magaw]

No worries, and thank YOU for repeating that point again, AGAIN, in case anybody missed it the first few times.

Please feel free to re-re-repeat the point again, AGAIN, AGAIN, or as many times as you like, if you still have any questions.

I think the comparison he was trying to draw was that if high volume WRs can overcome a high number of drops, so can a high volume TE. Like Jimmy Graham. Which was mentioned in the article. Which was why I posted it.

Anyways, if Ebron at some point gets in the 135-140 target range like Graham (he was the only TE in 2013, but in 2012, Witten had 147, Gonzalez had 139, Graham had 135 and Owen Daniels had 130, according to the link in the post immediately above), even with a 10% drop rate, that would put him around 14 drops. Again (AGAIN), Graham had 15 drops in 2012 according to the above article, and was the #1 TE.

So, again, if a high drop rate wasn't a death blow for Graham's 2012 season, that could bode well for Ebron's NFL career and dynasty projection.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

10th pick in the draft has potential -- thx

 

[Bob Magaw]

Some people are more concerned about the drops than others, so just trying to provide some context (before being berated for posting the article ).

Tavon Austin was the #8 pick in 2013, but many question his potential, so pedigree isn't always bullet proof.

Ebron doesn't have the same size concerns, but if you think about it for a few seconds, I'm sure you will have no trouble coming up with many top 10 skill position players without size concerns that busted. Maybe even due to their hands (Troy Williamson and DHB, to name a few, come immediately to mind).

Where would you rank Ebron in redraft and dynasty?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

dynasty - I don't care

redraft -- probably wouldn't bother unless a very late round and I had roster space for what's probably a waste of a flier

 

[ZWK]

Ebron had 10.1 yards per target last year. Out of the 12 WRs drafted in the first 2 rounds this year, 6 did better than that and 6 did worse. Amaro had 8.9. Average for a college team's top WR was around 9.6. Data here.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

dynasty - I don't care

redraft -- probably wouldn't bother unless a very late round and I had roster space for what's probably a waste of a flier

You certainly devoted a lot of time to this thread about a player you don't care much about either way. IDK, but I kinda find that odd.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

dynasty - I don't care

redraft -- probably wouldn't bother unless a very late round and I had roster space for what's probably a waste of a flier

You certainly devoted a lot of time to this thread about a player you don't care much about either way. IDK, but I kinda find that odd.

copying over a rotoblurb doesn't take up much of my day

pm me and I'll show you how to do it

 

[jurb26]

Some people are more concerned about the drops than others, so just trying to provide some context (before being berated for posting the article ).

Everyone should be concerned about drops IMO. The things is the total number can be a misleading stat. It's the drop rate that is important.

 

[steveski]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think where and how the drops occur matter too. If he's dropping a pass on 1st down when the teams out of scoring range then it's not as bad as Pettigrew who likes to drop passes in the endzone on 3rd down.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Some people are more concerned about the drops than others, so just trying to provide some context (before being berated for posting the article ).

Everyone should be concerned about drops IMO. The things is the total number can be a misleading stat. It's the drop rate that is important.

Should everyone have been concerned with Jimmy Graham's drops in 2012 (if the article data is correct). You mean, enough to think about not drafting him in 2013 due to drops? Maybe we are defining concerned differently.

 

[lod01]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think where and how the drops occur matter too. If he's dropping a pass on 1st down when the teams out of scoring range then it's not as bad as Pettigrew who likes to drop passes in the endzone on 3rd down.

Pettigrew was a major drive killer last year. This guy better learn how to catch or they are going to have 2 TE drive killers on the roster.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Some people are more concerned about the drops than others, so just trying to provide some context (before being berated for posting the article ).

Everyone should be concerned about drops IMO. The things is the total number can be a misleading stat. It's the drop rate that is important.

Should everyone have been concerned with Jimmy Graham's drops in 2012 (if the article data is correct). You mean, enough to think about not drafting him in 2013 due to drops? Maybe we are defining concerned differently.

so, you posted a list of 7 guys, and when it's repeatedly pointed out to you what irrelevant statistical nonsense it is you just fixate on one of them -- a guy who also happens to be one of the absolutely historically greatest producers at the position of all time, in one of the perennially greatest offenses, who got 44 targets as a rookie.

 

[jurb26]

Some people are more concerned about the drops than others, so just trying to provide some context (before being berated for posting the article ).

Everyone should be concerned about drops IMO. The things is the total number can be a misleading stat. It's the drop rate that is important.

Should everyone have been concerned with Jimmy Graham's drops in 2012 (if the article data is correct). You mean, enough to think about not drafting him in 2013 due to drops? Maybe we are defining concerned differently.

There are levels of concern and it isn't a black and white issue. Some players with exceptional skill and overall ability are simply going to be given more "mulligans" if you will when it comes to drops. Calvin, Marshall and Graham types fall into this category. These are guys who have shown a relative high drop rate over the past few years but simply make up for in with such on field dominance in other ways. Guys like T. Austin, D. Avery, S. Hill and DHB will simply never get the length of leash as guys who are elite at their position. So, it matter more in that case. Plus, it's important to understand how a drop gets associated to a player, generally speaking. If the ball touches his hands, doesn't really matter if he's being contested while it happens or it was off a fingernail the process is rather subjective, then it generally goes down as a drop. I'd say some of those elite players are perhaps penalized by this in some ways because they are trusted more and likely placed in more compromising positions that could be perceived as drops.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think where and how the drops occur matter too. If he's dropping a pass on 1st down when the teams out of scoring range then it's not as bad as Pettigrew who likes to drop passes in the endzone on 3rd down.

Pettigrew was a major drive killer last year. This guy better learn how to catch or they are going to have 2 TE drive killers on the roster.

I think the larger point is, if Ebron shows he can make plays consistently more on the explosiveness level of Graham than Pettigrew, who has shown he doesn't have that kind of talent, his drops will be weighed against his overall production differently than Pettigrew, as jurb just alluded to (in the context of Graham).

 

[Bob Magaw]

Some people are more concerned about the drops than others, so just trying to provide some context (before being berated for posting the article ).

Everyone should be concerned about drops IMO. The things is the total number can be a misleading stat. It's the drop rate that is important.

Should everyone have been concerned with Jimmy Graham's drops in 2012 (if the article data is correct). You mean, enough to think about not drafting him in 2013 due to drops? Maybe we are defining concerned differently.

so, you posted a list of 7 guys, and when it's repeatedly pointed out to you what irrelevant statistical nonsense it is you just fixate on one of them -- a guy who also happens to be one of the absolutely historically greatest producers at the position of all time, in one of the perennially greatest offenses, who got 44 targets as a rookie.

If you didn't find the article of interest as an entry point into a conversation in a thread that interests you about a player that doesn't interest you, maybe there are other possible entry points, but I don't have strong interest in dissecting an article that isn't interesting to you in a thread that does interest you about a player that doesn't interest you. Thanks for your interest in a player you aren't interested in, though.

* Ebron is a lot more relevant for dynasty purposes (I mean, being a historically good prospect at the position and all ), a subject which holds a lot of interest for me, but you have professed none to you. So more generally, yet another reason (as if we needed one) to think further attempts, even in a broader sense, to have a discussion that interests you about a player that doesn't interest you, made doubly irrelevant by being nested within the context of a format that doesn't interest you, will be abortive, and suggests moving on from the subject.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Well said Bob. I hate to debate things I don't care about either.

 

[alger]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think where and how the drops occur matter too. If he's dropping a pass on 1st down when the teams out of scoring range then it's not as bad as Pettigrew who likes to drop passes in the endzone on 3rd down.

Pettigrew was a major drive killer last year. This guy better learn how to catch or they are going to have 2 TE drive killers on the roster.

I think the larger point is, if Ebron shows he can make plays consistently more on the explosiveness level of Graham than Pettigrew, who has shown he doesn't have that kind of talent, his drops will be weighed against his overall production differently than Pettigrew, as jurb just alluded to (in the context of Graham).

He will certainly have a longer leash as Bob alluded to