Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
ESPN reporting that Ricky Williams is retiring (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Andrew
- Start date
so much promise this year.Red Hot Tamales
Footballguy
David Boston for Onterrio Smith seems much more interesting.Chris Chambers for Justin Fargas!
Makes perfect sense...
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Don't forget Miami added Sammy Morris in the off-season. He seems to fit the Williams mode more than Minor.
Morris is 6-0, 220
Leonard Henry is 6-1, 210 (7th round draft pick in 2002; East Carolina)
Minor is 5-10, 205
Ricky is 5-10, 226
Rob Konrad (6-3, 255) figures to see more action as well. The FB has been under-utilized for years in Miami. He had just thirty-six career carries in six seasons.
It's possible a committee with Morris and Minor develops. That's until Miami signs somebody
Morris is 6-0, 220
Leonard Henry is 6-1, 210 (7th round draft pick in 2002; East Carolina)
Minor is 5-10, 205
Ricky is 5-10, 226
Rob Konrad (6-3, 255) figures to see more action as well. The FB has been under-utilized for years in Miami. He had just thirty-six career carries in six seasons.
It's possible a committee with Morris and Minor develops. That's until Miami signs somebody
GregR_2
Footballguy
You think you're going to be hated?I traded Ricky and Barlow for Priest in a keeper league last Monday... trade finished review 2 days ago.The guy who did the trade is going to despise me. I don't know that I'll ever be able to convince him that I didn't have a clue this was happening.Part of me feels really, really horrible for him.Part of me is going
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Why the hell did you agree to that deal? Until this news, you were getting raped.You think you're going to be hated?I traded Ricky and Barlow for Priest in a keeper league last Monday... trade finished review 2 days ago.The guy who did the trade is going to despise me. I don't know that I'll ever be able to convince him that I didn't have a clue this was happening.Part of me feels really, really horrible for him.Part of me is going
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I was thinking the same thing. Must be something like a keep max-two RBs league, where he already had Barlow, Faulk and Portis. Otherwise, I'm with you.Why the hell did you agree to that deal? Until this news, you were getting raped.You think you're going to be hated?I traded Ricky and Barlow for Priest in a keeper league last Monday... trade finished review 2 days ago.The guy who did the trade is going to despise me. I don't know that I'll ever be able to convince him that I didn't have a clue this was happening.Part of me feels really, really horrible for him.Part of me is going
GregR_2
Footballguy
Because I couldn't keep both of them, and I have LT already. Priest and LT together on one team? How could I pass that up!?Why the hell did you agree to that deal? Until this news, you were getting raped.You think you're going to be hated?I traded Ricky and Barlow for Priest in a keeper league last Monday... trade finished review 2 days ago.The guy who did the trade is going to despise me. I don't know that I'll ever be able to convince him that I didn't have a clue this was happening.Part of me feels really, really horrible for him.Part of me is going
SammyJankis
Footballguy
No, he should have gone all out and done the best job he could for the 04 season.If I hit the lottery tomorrow, I wouldn't walk in on Monday and quit my job. Because we have a relationship, a good one and that. Furthermore, when I took that job, I made a committment, and I feel a need to honor that committment.So Ricky should have half-assed it for the year? For his teammates?It's a game. The Phins will find another RB. Life is short. Ricky's athletic ability has given him the opportunity to do what all of us wish we could do - retire early and live life on our own terms.I've got to strongly disagree with the "good for him' mentality. The man decided to retire a week before training camp. Maybe his heart isn't in it. Maybe he doesn't love the game anymore. But the fact is, the Miami Dolphins committed big time draft picks and a lot of money to this guy. He had teammates that were counting on him.If Ricky Williams felt this way, he's had a year to let them know how he feels. Surely the Dolphins either draft a RB or sign a free agent, most likely both. Its clear that the Dolphins are up the creek without him. Good for him? Is it good for Dave Wandstadt's job security? Is it good for AJ Feeley's chances of breaking out? Is it good for the Dolphins's season ticket fan that invested their hard earned money with an expectation that the Dolphins would be contenders?My sentiments exactly. Ricky just won't let the game play him. Good for him.:rotflmao: Seriously though, good for Ricky. If his heart isn't into it, props for being able to look 3.5 million in the face and say, "that's alright, I'd rather hang out in Asia and smoke cheeba."
Also, fusing together thoughts from another thread about the number of hits Ricky has taken in the past few years, I wonder if he saw what life is like for fellow UT alum Earl Campbell. Maybe Ricky does not want to end up like Earl.
Whether his heart was in it or no, he waits until a week before training camp, he should have sucked it up and played. This is like being someone being engaged, knowing their heart wasn't in it and leaving their husband/wife to be at the altar.
Good for him? Nuts to him. This stinks.
If I were a teammate of Ricky's, I'd rather have a 100% committed Travis Minor than an unhappy, "I'd rather not be here" Ricky Williams.
He has absolutely decimated the Miami Dolphins organization, his teammates and Dolphins fans. My favorite quote from the Herald article is when Ricky says ''The only people I'm accountable to are to my three children, and they love me anyway." Those are the only people he's accountable to?
The Fins will find another RB. If Ricky wouldn't have waited until the 11th hour to make this decision, they might have even found a running back this year.
Ricky didn't make the right choice, he made the easy choice. I never understood all of his actions, but I always respected him. This is no longer true.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I think the big thing to consider is where the connections are. AFC East teams love signing their own players, and getting in touch with their former contacts.Lamont Jordan is unlikely, but not an impossible scenario. Since he's in the last year of his contract, this wouldn't affect the Jets cap. However, there's little doubt that they'd force Miami to give way more than he's worth--so Miami would likely turn this down.Assuming Norv doesn't hate the Dolphins, I think a very real possibility includes them.Trying to think what other connections they have. Their new OC Chris Foerster worked with the Colts the past two years. I'm sure he has the inside scoop on James Mungro, Dominic Rhodes and Ricky Williams2.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Foerster’s job is, in the most basic sense, to run the offense through RB Ricky Williams. Foerster said in his introductory press conference that he knows Williams is the Dolphins’ bell cow, and there's no hiding the fact that he’s Foerster’s meal ticket.
:rotflmao:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Comme...spins051104.htm
:rotflmao:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Comme...spins051104.htm
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
If you won the lottery, you'd give 2 weeks, maybe a month's notice. You wouldn't work for the next 6 months, especially if you didn't like your job and it was as physically demanding and taxing as NFL football.Ricky gave a couple weeks notice. They have backups in place - it's not like the Dolphin franchise will now have to fold.If Ricky played out the season, mailing it in b/c his heart wasn't in it, just to "be there for his teammates", you and others would say that Ricky was playing for paychecks, and that you've lost respect for him. No win situation for Ricky.I have mad respect for a man who lives life by his own rules, and doesn't let money dictate his decision making.
Last edited by a moderator:
Red Hot Tamales
Footballguy
Just a polite reminder that NFL ownership is far less interested in commitment than are the players.
Un-flipping believable..But then again, after those stories of his trek to India and smoking "apple flavored tobacco" out of his hookah ... should we really be too shocked?This guy was a threat to walk away from the game at any time.Man I'm gonna tease the Williams owner in my keeper league.
RAIDERNATION.
Footballguy
Please tell me you're kidding. The Vikings would be foolish to trade a pair of cleats for Boston, much less give up a runner with as much promise as Onterrio Smith.Now if you want to talk about Jason Taylor... that will get you Onterrio.David Boston for Onterrio Smith seems much more interesting.Chris Chambers for Justin Fargas!
Makes perfect sense...
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Interesting to note:
If Ricky was going to make 3.7, and then lose at least 650 on the fine, that knocks his total take in '04 down to almost exactly 3 mill. Ricky bypasses the media circus and the hefty fine that would have made his salary extremely low for a player of his magnitude.
GregR_2
Footballguy
I should think that Ogunleye would be the name that would come up.Please tell me you're kidding. The Vikings would be foolish to trade a pair of cleats for Boston, much less give up a runner with as much promise as Onterrio Smith.Now if you want to talk about Jason Taylor... that will get you Onterrio.David Boston for Onterrio Smith seems much more interesting.Chris Chambers for Justin Fargas!
Makes perfect sense...
did the Dolphins ever give him a signing bonus?
RAIDERNATION.
Footballguy
That would need to be a sign and trade, no?I should think that Ogunleye would be the name that would come up.Please tell me you're kidding. The Vikings would be foolish to trade a pair of cleats for Boston, much less give up a runner with as much promise as Onterrio Smith.Now if you want to talk about Jason Taylor... that will get you Onterrio.David Boston for Onterrio Smith seems much more interesting.Chris Chambers for Justin Fargas!
Makes perfect sense...
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Player Info Draft Info RB (#34) Year: 1999 Miami Dolphins Round: 1 Ft. Lauderdale, FL Position: 5 Salary History 1999 175000.00 2000 275000.00 2001 389000.00 2002 450000.00 2003 2630000.00 2004 3735000.00 2005 3740000.002006 3500000.00 Obviously he doesn't care about the money. He was due a HUGE raise this year.
nittanylion
Footballguy
RW isn't the only Dolphin who won't be around in a week or so.Adewale Ogunleye is about the best tradeable commodity the fish have on their roster. Not sure how much $ the Fish get in terms of cap relief with this retirement, but if they choose not to meet his ABSURD contract demands, they could now be in a position/have the flexibility to sign him to the kind of deal another ball club would find very attractive, and one compatable with the contract of a desireable RB on another teams roster...I'm no student of the NFL Salary cap, so I may be way off base here, but moving an unhappy O-gun to acquire a starting caliber RB, was the first thing that popped into my head when I heard the news...FWIW, I think George is just fine with being in Dallas, in relation to the opp he could have gotten in Miami. At this point in his career, he's gotta be all about securing his spot in the HOF, and getting a ring. He'll see the rock enough in Dallas to do so. Anyone who doubts this should just look up what happened with Ottis Anderson when Parcells was with the GMEN back in the day. Eddie has as much or more left in his tank as Anderson did when Parcells pulled him off the scrapheap. Dallas, as much as I hate to admit it, is much closer to seeing a Super Bowl than Miami was even before RW made his announcement. Eddie is just fine with how things have shaped up for him. Just fine.
RAIDERNATION.
Footballguy
Wasn't sure if he was signed and holding out, or simply unsigned.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
It appears not.http://www.sportslawnews.com/archive/Mark&...w/Thought7.html
That talks about his contract with the Saints. Key notes from there:
Saints running back Ricky Williams' incentive-laden, seven-year contract that guarantees him $11.6 million over that time. Not a huge, huge amount these days for a top rookie. However, if all the bonuses are exercised, it could be worth $68.4 million, the most lucrative deal ever for an NFL rookie, according to the New Orleans Times-Picayune. Williams' contract includes an $8.84 million signing bonus and base salaries that range from $175,000 to $400,000 over the course of the deal. Also included is $1.6 million in annual bonuses of $100,000 for doing such things as participating in off-season workouts and keeping his weight below 240 pounds. Williams can earn another $500,000 each year if he reaches at least 10 of 26 goals worth $50,000 apiece.
The Williams deal with negotiated by an agency run by Master P, a rap artist who seeks to enter the sports world as an agent. It's a back-loaded contract, meaning that the major goodies do not even become available until the 2003 season (a major risk, since the average playing life of an NFL player is three years). Even the signing bonus is not a straight fee. More than half of it is deferred.
That makes me think the Dolphins never redid his contract. His current contract based off NFLPA.org shows that Ricky didn't see much money until 2003. Looks like Miami never gave him a signing bonus or new contract.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
yeah isn't this the NFL where contracts get broken daily by the owners and players cut?
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
"And they'll no longer have to worry about the prickly issue of Williams' contract. The eight-year deal, negotiated by rapper Master P.'s agency after the Saints made Williams the No. 5 pick in 1999, contains large incentives but low base salaries.
"It's a contract that's unique in the annals of NFL history," said Leigh Steinberg, now Williams' agent. "It's a contract that cries out for renegotiation."
The Dolphins don't plan to renegotiate, Wannstedt said.
"That has not been discussed. That's not part of the deal," he said. "Ricky and Leigh Steinberg know that if you come in and contribute and help the Dolphins win games, you're going to be taken care of."
Williams, 24, declined to discuss his contract and said he's delighted to join Miami. "
Source: http://www.nfl.com/ce/multi/0,3783,5104606,00.html
Miami likes saves nothing on the signing bonus (since they never had one), but saves 2.63 million for this year.
"It's a contract that's unique in the annals of NFL history," said Leigh Steinberg, now Williams' agent. "It's a contract that cries out for renegotiation."
The Dolphins don't plan to renegotiate, Wannstedt said.
"That has not been discussed. That's not part of the deal," he said. "Ricky and Leigh Steinberg know that if you come in and contribute and help the Dolphins win games, you're going to be taken care of."
Williams, 24, declined to discuss his contract and said he's delighted to join Miami. "
Source: http://www.nfl.com/ce/multi/0,3783,5104606,00.html
Miami likes saves nothing on the signing bonus (since they never had one), but saves 2.63 million for this year.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
For some reason, I think I remember Ricky firing Master P, and reworking his deal. It makes sense that the Phins wouldn't want to re-work the deal, but you have to think Ricky used his leverage and renegotiated when he was dealt.Then again, this is RW we're talking about.
Edit: Chase's post above shows I know nothing about the situation.
Last edited by a moderator:
David Yudkin
Footballguy
RW's salary and cap hit were both the same last year ($ 2,633,500), which makes it look like he did not have a signing bonus from Miami to divide up among the life of the contract.If there were portions of his contract that were guaranteed, would he be entitled to the money even if he retires? It sounds like he deferred a chunk of signing bonus, so that makes me think he would get the deferred money.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...9564&hl=chicago
Teams with the most cap space:
Cleveland - 11.4 million
New Orleans - 11 million
Philadelphia - 10.3 million
Minnesota has 7.3 million under the cap. Could certailny see them trading one of their RBs for Ogunleye.
Teams with the most cap space:
Cleveland - 11.4 million
New Orleans - 11 million
Philadelphia - 10.3 million
Minnesota has 7.3 million under the cap. Could certailny see them trading one of their RBs for Ogunleye.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
A side note - Ricky played rookie league baseball for the Martinsville Philles one summer when he was still at Texas. He was an incredible athlete, and could have been a major leaguer had he stuck with baseball. I went to 10-12 games that summer (I grew up in M-Ville) and Ricky put on shows during BP. Unbelievable power, and a strong arm from the outfield.He lived with an older couple near the stadium and they claim he was the most polite young man they've ever met. They said he called them the night he won the Heisman, just to say hello.Great guy.
Last edited by a moderator:
RAIDERNATION.
Footballguy
In that case, I forgive your previous smarmy retort.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Additionally, Miami has almost nothing to lose from a salary cap perspective. I'm 99% positive that O-GUN is in the final year of his contract, and he couldn't have ever had a big signing bonus.<trying to find his contract numbers>
Biabreakable
Footballguy
De Nile is a river in Egypt.
Ogunleye is a RFA who was a low draft pick because he got injured in his last year at Indiana. He can't have been making much more than the veteran minimum. He has refused to even sign the 1-year tender offer from the Dolphins because he wants a big, long-term contract. Chances are he was going to hold out til late in the season, sign the tender right before the deadline, and then hit unrestricted free agency in 2005.The Vikings, Bears, and Redskins, have all indicated interest in him at some point this offseason.The Vikings really are an obvious trade candidate, but they may not even feel the need to get him and give him a huge salary now that they've drafted Udeze.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Too tired to find Adewale Ogunleye’s 2001 contract. Suffice it to say, I think Miami can afford to make this deal from a financial standpoint. Whether or not they'll really trade him for a RB, we'll have to wait and see. But Miami could do it from a salary cap perspective, no problem.There's quite a few teams that have decent cap space--notably Cleveland. Could we see William Green in Miami? He would cost almost nothing this year (300K), but is signed through 2008. That's six years of accelerated signing bonus, which means Green will probably be in Clevleand for a long time. Lee Suggs would probably be easier to trade, since I'm sure his signing bonus was significantly lower. Of course, I'm not positive O-Gun to Cleveland is a great fit either.
Ogunleye is an RFA and was undrafted. The Dolphins have a tender offer extended to him, but he has yet to sign it.
The Cowboys are not going to the Super Bowl with Quincy Carter/Vinny Testaverde at QB. I'd bet my life on it.
madviking10
Footballguy
Man what if the Vikings gave up either Mo or SOD for Ogunleye. What the heck would that do to their D ranking ?I'd like to see it happen. As a Viking fan I'd like 50 guys that could rush the QB !
Aussie Cowboy
Footballguy
RAIDERNATION.
Footballguy
If I'm Mike Holmgren, I'm on the phone now offering Mo Morris and a 2005 2nd rounder.
they just gave a $14 Million signing bonus to Wistrom. I doubt they could afford Ogunleye or would want to have all that money tied up into one position. They have a much bigger need for a DT.
RAIDERNATION.
Footballguy
Woodard and Moore are THAT bad? I'd think the upgrade from Okeafor to Ogunleye at LDE would be too good to pass up.
Last edited by a moderator:
