Ethical Vegan Converts (1 Viewer)

[Chaos Commish]

I find Daiya cheese to be the best tasting and melting, though not all that nutritious.  They use it at Mad Mex (local mex-ish chain) and a few other restaurants.  The Yard House (sporty beer bar chain, not sure how many locations) has a bunch of gardein items on the menu.  They are usually good and not too bad on the fat.  Quorn products (meatballs and chicken nuggets/patties) seem to be the ones that my daughter goes for the best.

The Beyond meat sausage and meatballs are rather good too.

And the aquafaba definitely works great in baking.

It's a new language. I had to look up a few things. I tried Daiya and didn't like it though. 

 

[culdeus]

I know that this is bandied about, but is this really true?  I have gained a little weight since going almost fully plant-based and kind of wonder why.  I might be drinking slightly more the past couple of months, but really not that much. 

No. Its one of those studies where someone dosed a billion g of soy to rats and extrapolated hormone levels to humans and a myth was born. 

 

[Long Ball Larry]

It's a new language. I had to look up a few things. I tried Daiya and didn't like it though. 

i will say that a few of them are definitely worse than others.  The cheddar is not that good.  Provolone seems to be best and the smoked gouda is pretty good too. Swiss is in the middle.  The mozzarella a little less than average.  But it's an acquired taste probably and I get not liking it.  I don't know if there's any dairy-free cheese that tastes decent and is all that healthy anyway.

 

[tjnc09]

I'm pleasantly surprised to see reasonable discussion in here instead of rabid vegan-bashing that often occurs when the subject is brought up. Nice job, fbgs.

I've recently made the transition to veganism, after being ovo-lacto vegetarian for the past fifteen or twenty years. It's always been an ethical consideration for me, and I finally decided that I was being hypocritical in supporting the dairy and egg industry. Basically I felt I was kidding myself that eggs and dairy were not a violation of my desire to avoid harming animals for my own dietary convenience. Even "free range" hens lead a miserable life of mostly confinement, in most cases, and the egg industry slaughters millions of male chicks every year as they weed them out from the laying hens shortly after they hatch. Dairy, as has been mentioned, involves constant artificial insemination of cows and the removal of their calves immediately after they're born, which are then either penned up and slaughtered for veal (if they're male) or turned into milking cattle themselves, and eventually slaughtered when they're spent.

There's currently a lot of whitewashing of these industries with "ethical" labelling and while it's good to see that the producers have been forced to respond to an increase in concern over animal welfare, I think people are too quick to buy into comforting images of happy animals that are often little more than marketing gimmicks. I wouldn't necessarily object to anyone getting their milk or eggs from a small-scale producer that has been proven to treat animals humanely -- though I still think it's not really possible to avoid some of the issues I mentioned -- but I've realized that I don't need these things in my diet. I feel healthy, and it's not that difficult to replace eggs in cooking once you learn the tricks. My waffles taste just as good using applesauce as they ever did when they had eggs in them. Even vegan cheeses have come a long, long way in the past few years. I eat a lot of plant-based meats because they're convenient sources of proteins, and some of them are absolutely delicious. Maybe they don't compare to a juicy steak or burger, but that's a sacrifice I'm definitely willing to make.

Animal products like leather and even wool are problematic too, because the demand is so huge that they are industrialized in similar ways that meat production is. I used to think leather was just a byproduct of the meat industry, so better to use it than let it go to waste, but it turns out it's actually the skin of the cows that is most valuable in many parts of the world, and that the leather industry tends to drive the meat industry in some cases. Leather is an amazing material but I won't be buying it in the future. I'll use what I have until it wears out and then choose vegan options (some of which come with their own environmental issues, no doubt).

Veganism definitely doesn't need to be an all-or-nothing proposition. I try not to overanalyze labels looking for trace animal products -- vitamin D3 is often added to cereals, for example, and it's sourced from lanolin. Being 99% (or 90%) vegan is better than not trying at all, and I'm not going to kill myself trying to attain perfection. I also don't want to scare anyone away from attempting it themselves by making it look like an impossible task. Vegans who insist on this kind of fundamentalist approach do more harm than good, and they can't avoid a number of contradictions in their choices, as Maurile pointed out.

Most of the common objections to veganism are, quite frankly, silly or even stupid. "Plants have feelings too" is one of the dumbest. Yes, plants are alive, and yes, life by necessity involves death. There's no avoiding that. But clearly there is a spectrum of consciousness and sensitivity that needs to be considered. Only a psychopath could equate stomping on a kitten with pulling a radish out of the ground.

What do you eat to get sufficient protein?  

I cut out red meat about 15 years ago and finally cut out poultry this year.  I was content eating eggs from free range chickens and then I stumbled across a maceration video :vomit: I still eat fish and dairy, but that's primarily because I'm not educated enough on alternatives for protein.  I agree the dairy/egg industries are equally disgusting.  

 

[Arizona Ron]

Good luck on the health side of things, GB.  

No cholesterol lowering drugs for you?

I'm fine, any doc will tell you anything under 200 total cholesterol is great.  I just wanted to stay in front of it since I saw it creeping up in the 190s.  I'm 170s now and very happy.

If you're over 40, these are numbers you guys should get familiar with.  A doctor shouldn't put you on meds IMO unless you're over 240 total and definitely anything close or over 300s total.

 

[culdeus]

I was mostly vegan for 7 years.  I find it difficult to get good tasting food using that method.

Now my focus is getting as much veg as possible in my diet without grains.  

I think my focus will soon shift to trying to get as much protein from non dead animal sources that I can't source, or plant based protein.  I just haven't figured out how to manage that yet.  

Eating out is a huge problem.  You just can't know what's in what and vegan dishes are uniformly awful.

If I had to guess 15% of my calories are probably poorly sourced. I'd like to get that down to under 5%.  

 

[drpill]

It's a new language. I had to look up a few things. I tried Daiya and didn't like it though. 

Of all the vegan cheeses I’ve tried, Daiya is actually my least preferred. As far as I can tell there are two main types of plant-based cheese. One, like the Daiya, is made from oils and tapioca starch or something along those lines. The other uses cashews as a base. Cashews get really creamy when blended and can be used in lots of ways. It’s actually easy to make a simple cashew cheese at home. You’re not going to be fooling anyone into thinking it’s dairy but it is quite tasty as a spread or a dip.

The Daiya-type cheeses are more dairy-like but there are definitely better products out there. I like the Earth Island brand ones; they melt pretty well and have a better flavour and mouth feel than the Daiya. It’s not a perfect simulation and less is often more, but I find I can even make a decent grilled cheese with these.

There are a bunch of more gourmet options out there — the market has really exploded. I haven’t tried many of them because they aren’t available where I live but I would really like to. I do want to start making my own as well, apparently the key is using a liquid called rejuvelac (made from fermenting grains) to culture the cheese and give it the kind of sharpness you expect.

What do you eat to get sufficient protein?  

I cut out red meat about 15 years ago and finally cut out poultry this year.  I was content eating eggs from free range chickens and then I stumbled across a maceration video :vomit: I still eat fish and dairy, but that's primarily because I'm not educated enough on alternatives for protein.  I agree the dairy/egg industries are equally disgusting.  

Quite a wide variety of protein sources... beans and legumes, nuts, quinoa, tofu, tempeh and plant-based “meat” products. A lot of store bought veggie burgers don’t have that much protein in them, but some have quite a bit, so it pays to check the labels. The ones made with vital wheat gluten (aka seitan) are really quite good and have a lot of protein. Field Roast makes killer sausages that have something like 25-30 grams of protein per sausage. It looks like it’s pretty easy to make seitan at home so I’m going to give that a whirl soon.

Most plant based milks don’t have a lot of protein but I think soy milk is good as far as that goes. Then of course there are also vegan protein powders if you’re a smoothie kind of guy. I don’t lift so I don’t worry too much about protein, but it’s definitely possible to build muscle or be a serious athlete on a vegan diet.

 

[drpill]

I find Daiya cheese to be the best tasting and melting, though not all that nutritious.  They use it at Mad Mex (local mex-ish chain) and a few other restaurants.  The Yard House (sporty beer bar chain, not sure how many locations) has a bunch of gardein items on the menu.  They are usually good and not too bad on the fat.  Quorn products (meatballs and chicken nuggets/patties which are actually made out of fungi) seem to be the ones that my daughter goes for the best.

The Beyond meat sausage and meatballs are rather good too.

And the aquafaba definitely works great in baking.

I’m in central Canada and we can’t get Quorn or Beyond Burger products here. So I haven’t had a chance to try those. Apparently next month A&W in Canada is introducing a Beyond Burger hamburger. You can make it vegan by getting it on a gluten free bun, I’m told. I don’t normally eat fast food unless I’m traveling, but I think it’s very cool that they are doing this, and I will make a point of getting it on the regular.

One easy way to get some protein and cook recipes you are already familiar with is to buy the packages of veggie ground and use it in place of ground beef. Pasta sauce, chilli, burritos, whatever. It tastes basically the same, though some brands are a little better than others (the Gardein is probably the best I’ve tried). If you’re on a budget or more DIY you can try using TVP — textured vegetable protein — and it actually works great.

I splurged a couple of months ago and signed up for this mail order vegan “meat club” out of Victoria, Very Good Butchers. They make burgers, sausages, and a bunch of other stuff and it is all really high quality and delicious. This month they sent me bbq pulled jackfruit (vegan “pulled pork”) and seitan ribs, which I have yet to try. The kids aren’t crazy about it so I cancelled the subscription because it’s too much for me to eat by myself, but I wanna work on making it at home.

I think it’s important to keep in mind that if you go in looking for something that tricks you into thinking you’re eating meat, you’ll be disappointed. But if you’re looking for tasty food that has protein in a familiar form then these kinds of things are awesome. At this point I prefer a good homemade veggie burger or meat loaf to the real thing, but I’m a good cook and I’ve been vegetarian for a long time.

Oh, also hemp seeds are an awesome source of protein and healthy fats. And packaged deli meats in sandwiches is another one I forgot. Sorry these posts are so long, yikes!

 

[Mister CIA]

Been "mostly vegan" for 5 years now.  My wife and I started it solely for health reasons, without any concern for the environment.  That thought never even crossed our minds at first.  After a month or so of doing it we decided it was for us and theres no way I could go back to eating meat.  It's lost all appeal to me.  

We're not the high and mighty type that are out there.  Eating meals at home, its strictly vegan, but tomorrow is my daughter bday and she'll have a cookie cake.  I'll have a piece knowing there is dairy on it.  No biggie.

After a few months passed we did start to become aware of the environmental reasons as to why some people become vegan.  

There's not one bad apple from MS in this forum, except maybe me. 

Wishing your Bulldogs the best tomorrow.

 

[EYLive]

I'm lucky to be in a big city where there time off great vegan options. I never used to even glance at the vegetarian or vegan side of the menu. Now I find and appreciate that those dishes require more creativity than meat dishes.

 

[EYLive]

I find it really weird that some people think tofu is a meat substitute. I grew up eating tofu so maybe I have very different view of it than those that only started eating it as adults.

 

[EYLive]

The only time I'd come close to "vegan bashing" is when they get annoyed that a restaurant only has a couple of vegan items.  Yeah, when your diet removes 75% of the ####### food pyramid, the chef's options are gonna be kinda limited.  

From what I understand, that food pyramid is paid for and created by the meat and dairy industry. Not nutritionists.

 

[msommer]

Would an ethical vegan eat lab grown meat?

Just asked my vegetarian (not vegan) daughter this (she's not 100% clear on why she became vegetarian but mostly ethical reasons from what I've picked up).

She said yes, but with the caveat that she doesn't really like meat anymore 

 

[worrierking]

I saw the thread title after a couple of beers and I thought it said "Ethical Vegan Concerts."  I thought maybe the Ethical Vegans were a new band I should check out.  Kind of disappointed.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

From what I understand, that food pyramid is paid for and created by the meat and dairy industry. Not nutritionists.

It’s by the Department of Agriculture, so not just meat and dairy, but also wheat, corn, soy...

 

[Long Ball Larry]

From what I understand, that food pyramid is paid for and created by the meat and dairy industry. Not nutritionists.

yes, from what I can tell, the food industry and government have driven the nutrition information most of the USA history, based mostly on production and monetary incentives and little on science..

 

[MrJimiT]

...Sorry these posts are so long, yikes!

No worries. I've been way more informed since reading your posts than when I started. I am at the discovery stage of veganism. Mostly out of disgust for....well....all the crap that goes on. And to some point, I am embarrassed at the fact that it never entered my mind, for decades, at the mistreatment of industrialized food/product processing while I enjoyed certain animal-based cuisine. I am not interested in a crusade. Just making a small difference. Education is key and knowledge is helpful!!

 

[jb1020]

I find Daiya cheese to be the best tasting and melting, though not all that nutritious.  They use it at Mad Mex (local mex-ish chain) and a few other restaurants.  The Yard House (sporty beer bar chain, not sure how many locations) has a bunch of gardein items on the menu.  They are usually good and not too bad on the fat.  Quorn products (meatballs and chicken nuggets/patties which are actually made out of fungi) seem to be the ones that my daughter goes for the best.

The Beyond meat sausage and meatballs are rather good too.

And the aquafaba definitely works great in baking.

Theres a new, at least new to me, brand of cheese called "Follow your Heart."  It blows Diaya away.  Diaya has come a long way in the 5 years I've been at it.  

Beyond Meat is a fantastic burger option. 

Its crazy to see how far this whole industry has come in 5 years.  Anxious for the next 5 years.  

 

[parasaurolophus]

The yard house menu is awesome. 

Why is chicken fat/flavor/broth put into so many foods. Can it really affect the flavor of processed foods that much as the 13th ingredient? 

Simple truth makes a breakfast patty i love.

 

[eoMMan]

Is veganism child abuse?

 

[drpill]

Is veganism child abuse?

Well, that's a sensational headline that's hardly justified by the text of the article. Clickbait 101. Parents who fail to meet their children's nutritional requirements are obviously guilty of neglect, and stupid people shouldn't be trying to raise babies on soy and apple juice. It's tragic when this sort of thing happens but it's just another example of how some people are too irresponsible to be raising children -- there are lots of ways to neglect your kids and this is not inherent to veganism per se.

From the article: 

Plenty of parents can and do responsibly raise vegan children, but it takes considerable thought, self-education and care to assure they are getting adequate nutrition. 

 

[Jaysus]

I spent the majority of my life, and the last 20+ years, meat free.  I did it because "I prefer my animals alive".  Ethical reasons, compassion, attempting to effect change, blah, blah, blah... all that stuff was considered in my decisions regarding my diet.   You know what?  None of it fn matters.  I changed nothing. I convinced nobody of anything.  It was all talk... sure it made me feel better about myself, but that was pure selfishness. I had no impact on all the animals I prefer to see alive. So what difference did it make? None.  All I was doing was inconveniencing my family.  I was even setting a bad example for my children. Why could I get a special meal at dinner time if they couldn't?  My wife and I wound up making 4 different meals way more often than not. How could I sit at the table and tell my daughter she had to finish a meal that I would not even consider eating.  So I had a choice.  Keep feeling good about myself, or stop caring. 

I stopped caring. 

I care about my kids and my family more than I care about an unstoppable industry.  At some point in the spring I ate chicken for the first time since the 90s. I have had it a handful of times since then, and I plan to continue to do so whenever it is easy.  Because I don't care anymore... there's no point to it. 

 

[drpill]

I spent the majority of my life, and the last 20+ years, meat free.  I did it because "I prefer my animals alive".  Ethical reasons, compassion, attempting to effect change, blah, blah, blah... all that stuff was considered in my decisions regarding my diet.   You know what?  None of it fn matters.  I changed nothing. I convinced nobody of anything.  It was all talk... sure it made me feel better about myself, but that was pure selfishness. I had no impact on all the animals I prefer to see alive. So what difference did it make? None.  All I was doing was inconveniencing my family.  I was even setting a bad example for my children. Why could I get a special meal at dinner time if they couldn't?  My wife and I wound up making 4 different meals way more often than not. How could I sit at the table and tell my daughter she had to finish a meal that I would not even consider eating.  So I had a choice.  Keep feeling good about myself, or stop caring. 

I stopped caring. 

I care about my kids and my family more than I care about an unstoppable industry.  At some point in the spring I ate chicken for the first time since the 90s. I have had it a handful of times since then, and I plan to continue to do so whenever it is easy.  Because I don't care anymore... there's no point to it. 

I empathize, but I see flaws in your way of thinking. Obviously no one is going to effect large-scale change by themselves, but your choices did make an impact, however small. Every animal you didn't eat was one less actual living creature that needed to be replaced on the assembly line of industrialized farming. 

Supply and demand is a real thing, and the demand for non-animal protein is growing tremendously these days. Something like 85% of vegan products are purchased by non-vegans. Things are changing, and in large part this is because of a growing awareness created by people like you. The industry will likely never be eradicated, but that doesn't have to be the only worthwhile goal. 

Apathy is a powerful impulse; I feel it myself when it comes to a number of topics like mainstream politics. But the fact that me recycling my cardboard isn't going to save the planet doesn't mean I should give up recycling altogether. It's the cumulative effect of millions of small changes that makes a difference, and when it comes to not eating animals it's even easier to envision a direct impact made by your choices. 

I'm not telling you to go back to not eating meat; that's obviously your choice, and it must be especially difficult with your family situation. It sounds like your wife is not on board, and I don't know how I'd deal with that. But even if you add some amount of animal products back into your diet, you're still making a difference by minimizing it to whatever extent you think is reasonable. It's not an all or nothing thing, and there is value in caring.

 

[chet]

My wife and daughter are vegetarian.  My son when he was about 6 said, "Mom, I'd like to be a vegetarian too but animals just taste too good."

 

[parasaurolophus]

I care about my kids and my family more than I care about an unstoppable industry. 

I don't really understand this comment. This isn't an actual choice anybody has to make. 

It is perfectly ok to say "I found it too inconvenient come dinner time to remain vegetarian." But to paint it as setting a bad example and being selfish and that somehow that it is a choice between your family and eating meat is just weird. 

My wife is not vegetarian, neither is my son or daughter. We find plenty of meals that we all enjoy. We also find plenty of meals that we can just prepare the chicken/beef/fish/etc separately and they can add it. On some days we do in fact make two completely different meals. Sometimes they prefer the vegetarian dish on those days. We love to cook though and we love to try new foods, so for us it is not something we consider an inconvenience. If somebody hated cooking or wasn't very good at it, I can completely understand why they would think this is too much extra work and just make one easy family meal.     

 

[Chaos Commish]

My best friend from childhood was vegetarian growing up and has been vegan for 30+ years. Pretty sure he'd tell Jaysus it's not about opposing things you cannot stand and cannot change but about supporting things you admire. Then again he may have just recited the serenity prayer.

 

[EYLive]

I'm really interested in more of the frozen vegan foods you guys like. I still have some meat in my freezer that I either need to give to my mom or throw out. Once I make space I'll fill it with Boca Burgers and gardein/seitan products.

I used to work near a vegan Thai cafe that used some of those meat substitutes that tasted like chicken skin and tender beeef jerky. So dang good. I should have asked what those fake eats were.

 

[drpill]

I'm really interested in more of the frozen vegan foods you guys like. I still have some meat in my freezer that I either need to give to my mom or throw out. Once I make space I'll fill it with Boca Burgers and gardein/seitan products.

I used to work near a vegan Thai cafe that used some of those meat substitutes that tasted like chicken skin and tender beeef jerky. So dang good. I should have asked what those fake eats were.

My selection here in Canada is a bit limited, but I really like Gardein and Field Roast brands. Gardein makes all kinds of things -- burgers, ground "beef," meatballs, chicken and fish alternatives. Looking at their website they also make some convenience foods like vegan pizza pockets and skillet meals.

Field Roast makes a lot of things too; I've only tried their sausages and burgers but they are both excellent. Because they are seitan-based the Field Roast items are higher in protein than a lot of other options. It looks like they offer a wider selection in the US than they do here, and I would gamble on anything made by them at this point. They also produce a variety of vegan cheeses that are pretty solid.

I've eaten the Sol Cuisine burgers in the past and they are quite good. Yves brand is hit and miss. Quorn products were mentioned earlier but I haven't tried them. I hear Beyond Burger is great and the closest thing there is to an actual beef burger, but I haven't had a chance to try it.

Also that Very Good Butchers meat club I mentioned earlier does ship to the States. I imagine there are similar services closer to home, too.

Youtube is full of vegan channels, The Vegan Zombie is one I like and he does a lot of "taste test" videos that might give you some ideas for what you'd want to try.

 

[EYLive]

My selection here in Canada is a bit limited, but I really like Gardein and Field Roast brands. Gardein makes all kinds of things -- burgers, ground "beef," meatballs, chicken and fish alternatives. Looking at their website they also make some convenience foods like vegan pizza pockets and skillet meals.

Field Roast makes a lot of things too; I've only tried their sausages and burgers but they are both excellent. Because they are seitan-based the Field Roast items are higher in protein than a lot of other options. It looks like they offer a wider selection in the US than they do here, and I would gamble on anything made by them at this point. They also produce a variety of vegan cheeses that are pretty solid.

I've eaten the Sol Cuisine burgers in the past and they are quite good. Yves brand is hit and miss. Quorn products were mentioned earlier but I haven't tried them. I hear Beyond Burger is great and the closest thing there is to an actual beef burger, but I haven't had a chance to try it.

Also that Very Good Butchers meat club I mentioned earlier does ship to the States. I imagine there are similar services closer to home, too.

Youtube is full of vegan channels, The Vegan Zombie is one I like and he does a lot of "taste test" videos that might give you some ideas for what you'd want to try.

Awesome, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Thanks!