Falcons OC blames Vick for passing game woes: (1 Viewer)

[Da Guru]

According to Profootballtalk.com editor Mike Florio, there was a huge blowup at team headquarters after Sunday's loss -- and the problems spilled over into Monday.

According to Florio, the issue arose shortly after Sunday's loss, when defensive coordinator Ed Donatell got in offensive coordinator Greg Knapp's face regarding the inability of the offense to sustain drives, which resulted in the defense being on the field for too long.

Word is that Donatell blamed several injuries sustained by his troops on the poor play of the offense -- because the defensive players were exhausted late in the game.

Florio was also told that, on Monday, owner Arthur Blank summoned Donatell and Knapp to his office, and that Blank wouldn't allow Mora inside the room until Blank had a chance to talk with them. After the four men met, Knapp was angry -- and word is that Knapp is openly blaming the performance of the offense on the limited passing skills of Vick.

I should stress that Florio's report on this is first -- and only -- available on this. The local media certainly haven't picked up on it. Still, thought I'd pass it along in case becomes more relevant at some point. ...

 

[Trap Play]

And the OC would be right.

 

[joffer]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

 

[KCC]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Of course Vick's to blame for the passing game. Why is this a question? Yes, the receivers drop balls they shouldn't, but ALL QBs have receivers who drop balls they shouldn't. The majority of the woes in the passing game are on Vick.

I'm not exactly going to be shocked if this becomes much more relevant, obviously.

 

[joffer]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

vick's passing is bad. the WRs are bad. it's a bad combination.

 

[Family Matters]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

And you could say "if Vick makes that pass" a hundred times. Jenkins rarely drops passes (2 this year so far). So really do not think his 2 drops even began to open him to criticism. Without a doubt, Vick is not a very good passer. You can afford to be 1 demiensional as a Qb but not being able to pass isn't 1 that's a good thing.

 

[joffer]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

And you could say "if Vick makes that pass" a hundred times. Jenkins rarely drops passes (2 this year so far). So really do not think his 2 drops even began to open him to criticism. Without a doubt, Vick is not a very good passer. You can afford to be 1 demiensional as a Qb but not being able to pass isn't 1 that's a good thing.

true, but part of the reason the Falcons win when Vick plays despite him being a poor passer are rare plays like that, where he scrambles around for 5 minutes and flicks his wrist on the run for 60 yards down the field right into the WR's hands.

 

[Family Matters]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

Just for a point of reference, the 3 main recievers on ATL, Crumpler, Jenkins and White have combined for 6 dropped passes this year. That's not exactly a number you associate with recievers having trouble catching the ball. Of course you can't catch what isn't catchable. Vick's passing completion % is 50.4%. Only Young, Walter & Collins are lower. I think this explains the problem better than blaming the recievers.

 

[juveduke]

Of course Vick's to blame for the passing game. Why is this a question? Yes, the receivers drop balls they shouldn't, but ALL QBs have receivers who drop balls they shouldn't. The majority of the woes in the passing game are on Vick.I'm not exactly going to be shocked if this becomes much more relevant, obviously.

Vick is average passing the ball. Combine that with a line that is among the league's worst at pass blocking, a terrible set of receivers, a clueless OC, and you get the Falcon's passing attack, or lack thereof.

 

[joffer]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

Just for a point of reference, the 3 main recievers on ATL, Crumpler, Jenkins and White have combined for 6 dropped passes this year.

not sure who is keeping those stats, but i can easily remember 6 drops by Crumpler alone.

 

[KCC]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

Just for a point of reference, the 3 main recievers on ATL, Crumpler, Jenkins and White have combined for 6 dropped passes this year. That's not exactly a number you associate with recievers having trouble catching the ball. Of course you can't catch what isn't catchable. Vick's passing completion % is 50.4%. Only Young, Walter & Collins are lower. I think this explains the problem better than blaming the recievers.

Thanks, FM. That's just the kind of data-based reply I was hoping for.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Of course Vick's to blame for the passing game. Why is this a question? Yes, the receivers drop balls they shouldn't, but ALL QBs have receivers who drop balls they shouldn't. The majority of the woes in the passing game are on Vick.I'm not exactly going to be shocked if this becomes much more relevant, obviously.

Vick is average passing the ball. Combine that with a line that is among the league's worst at pass blocking, a terrible set of receivers, a clueless OC, and you get the Falcon's passing attack, or lack thereof.

His career passer rating is a 75. I don't think that's even average in the NFL.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

Just for a point of reference, the 3 main recievers on ATL, Crumpler, Jenkins and White have combined for 6 dropped passes this year.

not sure who is keeping those stats, but i can easily remember 6 drops by Crumpler alone.

It seemed like they had that many in the NO game.

 

[joffer]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

Just for a point of reference, the 3 main recievers on ATL, Crumpler, Jenkins and White have combined for 6 dropped passes this year.

not sure who is keeping those stats, but i can easily remember 6 drops by Crumpler alone.

It seemed like they had that many in the NO game.

judgement on whether a pass was "dropped" can be pretty subjective.

 

[Da Guru]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

And you could say "if Vick makes that pass" a hundred times. Jenkins rarely drops passes (2 this year so far). So really do not think his 2 drops even began to open him to criticism. Without a doubt, Vick is not a very good passer. You can afford to be 1 demiensional as a Qb but not being able to pass isn't 1 that's a good thing.

true, but part of the reason the Falcons win when Vick plays despite him being a poor passer are rare plays like that, where he scrambles around for 5 minutes and flicks his wrist on the run for 60 yards down the field right into the WR's hands.

Would the Falcons be a more potent and consistant offensive team with Schaub? I think so.

 

[Family Matters]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

And you could say "if Vick makes that pass" a hundred times. Jenkins rarely drops passes (2 this year so far). So really do not think his 2 drops even began to open him to criticism. Without a doubt, Vick is not a very good passer. You can afford to be 1 demiensional as a Qb but not being able to pass isn't 1 that's a good thing.

true, but part of the reason the Falcons win when Vick plays despite him being a poor passer are rare plays like that, where he scrambles around for 5 minutes and flicks his wrist on the run for 60 yards down the field right into the WR's hands.

I agree Vick is a great scrambler but the reality is the Falcons are 1 demionsional and can be defended a little easier. When a defensive coordinator is not worried much about you throwing the ball then he can make adjustments in defending your running/scrambling style. It might explain the reason they've had little playoff success.While Vick's style might help in the regular season, the fact is he can't get his team far in the playoffs with this style.Of course this has more to do with being a business and Vick sells tickets/ratings for sure and that fact cannot be ignored. But the criticism is fair so long as he cannot win the playoff games. Another fact I noticed is that his comp % has actually dropped from the last 2 years. He's on track to throw 9 TD's and 9 INT's. You should at least be able to throw a TD/INT ration of about 2-1. According to anothe passing stat, 20.5% of all his throws are considered "poorly thrown".One last point. He went out of his way in the pre-season to state he was going to use his legs and not worry about passing the ball becasue that's what he does. Well, he's doing it his way and it isn't working so great with only 83 points scored, or 16 ppg.

 

[Texican]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

Just for a point of reference, the 3 main recievers on ATL, Crumpler, Jenkins and White have combined for 6 dropped passes this year.

not sure who is keeping those stats, but i can easily remember 6 drops by Crumpler alone.

It seemed like they had that many in the NO game.

 

[joffer]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

And you could say "if Vick makes that pass" a hundred times. Jenkins rarely drops passes (2 this year so far). So really do not think his 2 drops even began to open him to criticism. Without a doubt, Vick is not a very good passer. You can afford to be 1 demiensional as a Qb but not being able to pass isn't 1 that's a good thing.

true, but part of the reason the Falcons win when Vick plays despite him being a poor passer are rare plays like that, where he scrambles around for 5 minutes and flicks his wrist on the run for 60 yards down the field right into the WR's hands.

Would the Falcons be a more potent and consistant offensive team with Schaub? I think so.

i don't

 

[Family Matters]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

Just for a point of reference, the 3 main recievers on ATL, Crumpler, Jenkins and White have combined for 6 dropped passes this year.

not sure who is keeping those stats, but i can easily remember 6 drops by Crumpler alone.

They were likely rated as "poorly thrown". While it's subjective, it's subjective for all the QB's, not just Vick.

 

[Da Guru]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

And you could say "if Vick makes that pass" a hundred times. Jenkins rarely drops passes (2 this year so far). So really do not think his 2 drops even began to open him to criticism. Without a doubt, Vick is not a very good passer. You can afford to be 1 demiensional as a Qb but not being able to pass isn't 1 that's a good thing.

true, but part of the reason the Falcons win when Vick plays despite him being a poor passer are rare plays like that, where he scrambles around for 5 minutes and flicks his wrist on the run for 60 yards down the field right into the WR's hands.

Would the Falcons be a more potent and consistant offensive team with Schaub? I think so.

i don't

I disagree....Plus value for $$$$ spent would be a huge upside.

 

[Tau837]

One could argue various viewpoints on what makes QBs successful.

1. Offensive scheme that is well suited to a QB's skills can make a QB look better than his natural ability. One could argue that the schemes of Walsh & Martz have done this for multiple QBs. To choose a different example, one could argue that McNair has succeeded in large part due to being in an offense that is well suited to his abilities. Same for Roethlisberger.

2. Surrounding offensive players can make a QB look better than he might really be. Consider Minnesota during the years they had Moss and Carter, and had a number of QBs who looked better there than they had/have elsewhere.

3. Great coaching can make a QB look better. As one example, suppose Brady, who isn't necessarily in a great scheme or surrounded by great players, had played his career for someone other than Belichek. One of the main reasons Brady is thought to be an elite QB is that he has quarterbacked his team to multiple Super Bowl titles. IMO without BB that wouldn't have happened... and we would have a lesser opinion of Brady.

4. Of course, QBs can simply be great and lift the others around him as well. Marino and Elway did this, to name a couple.

So. What to make of Vick? I think as a football player, which includes his ability to run and the attention this requires from the defense and the corresponding boost that gives to his teammates fits #4. But as a passer only, he clearly isn't great. That said, he also isn't being made to look better as a passer by (1) his scheme; (2) his receivers; and/or (3) his coaching.

I think he gets an overly bad rap for his passing. In 2002, he was healthy and showed very solid improvement over the course of the season as a passer. IMO that offense was better suited to his skills. Then he got hurt and when he returned was placed into an ill fitting West Coast Offense, with a rookie head coach, and no real talent improvement to offset any of that.

Sure, he has been overhyped at times, and I wish that he hadn't been. . As a fan of him and the NFL, I'd like to see him do better as a passer. But his receivers and coaches aren't really doing him any favors either.

I didn't see this past week's game, and no doubt one dropped pass by Jenkins isn't the whole answer for why Vick isn't a better passing QB. But there is a fine line between "not a great passer but good enough" and "bad passer". Last week, it sounds like if Jenkins made that play, he would have been the former rather than the latter.

I know I did see his game against New Orleans a few weeks ago, and there were a handful of bad drops and a handful of other plays that could have been made by the receivers (including the TE Crumpler)... combined there were probably three plays that could have been passing TDs that were not made.

I'm just saying that this bashing of his passing is over the top, just as at other times his hype is over the top. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. I personally believe he can improve as a passer, because not only can he improve his ability as a passer as he continues to gain experience, the conditions that contribute to his passing effectiveness can all improve as well.

 

[qimqam]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

Aside from Dunns 90 yd run which included several missed tackles ... The Giants completely dominated the game on both sides of the ball.

 

[-jb-]

One could argue various viewpoints on what makes QBs successful.1. Offensive scheme that is well suited to a QB's skills can make a QB look better than his natural ability. One could argue that the schemes of Walsh & Martz have done this for multiple QBs. To choose a different example, one could argue that McNair has succeeded in large part due to being in an offense that is well suited to his abilities. Same for Roethlisberger.2. Surrounding offensive players can make a QB look better than he might really be. Consider Minnesota during the years they had Moss and Carter, and had a number of QBs who looked better there than they had/have elsewhere.3. Great coaching can make a QB look better. As one example, suppose Brady, who isn't necessarily in a great scheme or surrounded by great players, had played his career for someone other than Belichek. One of the main reasons Brady is thought to be an elite QB is that he has quarterbacked his team to multiple Super Bowl titles. IMO without BB that wouldn't have happened... and we would have a lesser opinion of Brady.4. Of course, QBs can simply be great and lift the others around him as well. Marino and Elway did this, to name a couple.So. What to make of Vick? I think as a football player, which includes his ability to run and the attention this requires from the defense and the corresponding boost that gives to his teammates fits #4. But as a passer only, he clearly isn't great. That said, he also isn't being made to look better as a passer by (1) his scheme; (2) his receivers; and/or (3) his coaching.I think he gets an overly bad rap for his passing. In 2002, he was healthy and showed very solid improvement over the course of the season as a passer. IMO that offense was better suited to his skills. Then he got hurt and when he returned was placed into an ill fitting West Coast Offense, with a rookie head coach, and no real talent improvement to offset any of that.Sure, he has been overhyped at times, and I wish that he hadn't been. . As a fan of him and the NFL, I'd like to see him do better as a passer. But his receivers and coaches aren't really doing him any favors either.I didn't see this past week's game, and no doubt one dropped pass by Jenkins isn't the whole answer for why Vick isn't a better passing QB. But there is a fine line between "not a great passer but good enough" and "bad passer". Last week, it sounds like if Jenkins made that play, he would have been the former rather than the latter.I know I did see his game against New Orleans a few weeks ago, and there were a handful of bad drops and a handful of other plays that could have been made by the receivers (including the TE Crumpler)... combined there were probably three plays that could have been passing TDs that were not made.I'm just saying that this bashing of his passing is over the top, just as at other times his hype is over the top. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. I personally believe he can improve as a passer, because not only can he improve his ability as a passer as he continues to gain experience, the conditions that contribute to his passing effectiveness can all improve as well.

re: the "dropped" passes, it was more of the same of what you saw vs. the saints.

 

[-jb-]

Aside from Dunns 90 yd run which included several missed tackles ... The Giants completely dominated the game on both sides of the ball.

i disagree. the giants dominated the last quarter and a half. the score was 14-3 ATL through half of the 3rd quarter. then they imploded.

 

[juveduke]

Of course Vick's to blame for the passing game. Why is this a question? Yes, the receivers drop balls they shouldn't, but ALL QBs have receivers who drop balls they shouldn't. The majority of the woes in the passing game are on Vick.I'm not exactly going to be shocked if this becomes much more relevant, obviously.

Vick is average passing the ball. Combine that with a line that is among the league's worst at pass blocking, a terrible set of receivers, a clueless OC, and you get the Falcon's passing attack, or lack thereof.

His career passer rating is a 75. I don't think that's even average in the NFL.

:whoosh: That rating is a result of every other element in the Falcon's passing attack being well below par.

 

[Loopdog]

this debate never ends. The Vick supporters (including myself) will say he has terrible WR's and the Vick haters will say that he can't pass. It's a little deeper than that. The fact that it says his WR's only have 6 drops all year is laughable. There's gotta be a FBG who watches every play of every game and breaks down tape, is there not? They have stats for everything else under the sun, I'd definitely say its in the double digits hands down

 

[Loopdog]

it also doesnt help that the west coast offense is Vick's cryptonite. That guy needs to be in a Denny Green offense or a Dan Reeves offense. Something that spreads the field and is predicated on the deep ball more than dink and dunk stuff, which is Vick's biggest weakness. He looked phenominal under Reeves in his first full year as a starter, and then they changed the offense and he's been pretty much stagnant in it ever since. I actually think he looks better from the pocket this year, but I guess I'm alone on that one.

 

[Tau837]

this debate never ends. The Vick supporters (including myself) will say he has terrible WR's and the Vick haters will say that he can't pass. It's a little deeper than that. The fact that it says his WR's only have 6 drops all year is laughable. There's gotta be a FBG who watches every play of every game and breaks down tape, is there not? They have stats for everything else under the sun, I'd definitely say its in the double digits hands down

Agree that I would have called more than 6 of Vick's incompletions drops... I saw almost that many in the New Orleans game. But perhaps there is a distinction to be made. There are plays that aren't perfect passes and thus if they are not completed are not ruled as drops... but they are plays that can be made by the receivers, and better receivers make a lot of them. With respect to Vick's effectiveness, if his receivers make the fewest plays for their QB in the league, or are near the bottom, it is essentially the same thing as having more official drops... either way, a lot of the responsibility goes to the receivers. But Vick essentially gets all the blame.

 

[Tau837]

it also doesnt help that the west coast offense is Vick's cryptonite. That guy needs to be in a Denny Green offense or a Dan Reeves offense. Something that spreads the field and is predicated on the deep ball more than dink and dunk stuff, which is Vick's biggest weakness. He looked phenominal under Reeves in his first full year as a starter, and then they changed the offense and he's been pretty much stagnant in it ever since. I actually think he looks better from the pocket this year, but I guess I'm alone on that one.

 

[Da Guru]

this debate never ends. The Vick supporters (including myself) will say he has terrible WR's and the Vick haters will say that he can't pass. It's a little deeper than that. The fact that it says his WR's only have 6 drops all year is laughable. There's gotta be a FBG who watches every play of every game and breaks down tape, is there not? They have stats for everything else under the sun, I'd definitely say its in the double digits hands down

Agree that I would have called more than 6 of Vick's incompletions drops... I saw almost that many in the New Orleans game. But perhaps there is a distinction to be made. There are plays that aren't perfect passes and thus if they are not completed are not ruled as drops... but they are plays that can be made by the receivers, and better receivers make a lot of them. With respect to Vick's effectiveness, if his receivers make the fewest plays for their QB in the league, or are near the bottom, it is essentially the same thing as having more official drops... either way, a lot of the responsibility goes to the receivers. But Vick essentially gets all the blame.

This was one game....how many games have we seen Vick one hop passes?? Sail balls over the heads of wRs?? Just plain throw bad passes?? That is what the OC is talking about..the passing game in general. It is and always has been in a funk since Vick has been there.

 

[Tau837]

this debate never ends. The Vick supporters (including myself) will say he has terrible WR's and the Vick haters will say that he can't pass. It's a little deeper than that. The fact that it says his WR's only have 6 drops all year is laughable. There's gotta be a FBG who watches every play of every game and breaks down tape, is there not? They have stats for everything else under the sun, I'd definitely say its in the double digits hands down

Agree that I would have called more than 6 of Vick's incompletions drops... I saw almost that many in the New Orleans game. But perhaps there is a distinction to be made. There are plays that aren't perfect passes and thus if they are not completed are not ruled as drops... but they are plays that can be made by the receivers, and better receivers make a lot of them. With respect to Vick's effectiveness, if his receivers make the fewest plays for their QB in the league, or are near the bottom, it is essentially the same thing as having more official drops... either way, a lot of the responsibility goes to the receivers. But Vick essentially gets all the blame.

This was one game....how many games have we seen Vick one hop passes?? Sail balls over the heads of wRs?? Just plain throw bad passes?? That is what the OC is talking about..the passing game in general. It is and always has been in a funk since Vick has been there.

Not true. It wasn't in a funk under Dan Reeves. 2002 was easily Vick's best season as a passer, even more so if you look at his first half/second half splits that season, which is relevant because it was his first full season as a starter. Before someone goes off, I'm not saying he was Dan Marino under Reeves... but he was much better than he has been since Mora took over and installed the west coast offense... that is when Atlanta's passing game went into a funk.

 

[Yenrub]

One could argue various viewpoints on what makes QBs successful.1. Offensive scheme that is well suited to a QB's skills can make a QB look better than his natural ability. One could argue that the schemes of Walsh & Martz have done this for multiple QBs. To choose a different example, one could argue that McNair has succeeded in large part due to being in an offense that is well suited to his abilities. Same for Roethlisberger.2. Surrounding offensive players can make a QB look better than he might really be. Consider Minnesota during the years they had Moss and Carter, and had a number of QBs who looked better there than they had/have elsewhere.3. Great coaching can make a QB look better. As one example, suppose Brady, who isn't necessarily in a great scheme or surrounded by great players, had played his career for someone other than Belichek. One of the main reasons Brady is thought to be an elite QB is that he has quarterbacked his team to multiple Super Bowl titles. IMO without BB that wouldn't have happened... and we would have a lesser opinion of Brady.4. Of course, QBs can simply be great and lift the others around him as well. Marino and Elway did this, to name a couple.So. What to make of Vick? I think as a football player, which includes his ability to run and the attention this requires from the defense and the corresponding boost that gives to his teammates fits #4. But as a passer only, he clearly isn't great. That said, he also isn't being made to look better as a passer by (1) his scheme; (2) his receivers; and/or (3) his coaching.I think he gets an overly bad rap for his passing. In 2002, he was healthy and showed very solid improvement over the course of the season as a passer. IMO that offense was better suited to his skills. Then he got hurt and when he returned was placed into an ill fitting West Coast Offense, with a rookie head coach, and no real talent improvement to offset any of that.Sure, he has been overhyped at times, and I wish that he hadn't been. . As a fan of him and the NFL, I'd like to see him do better as a passer. But his receivers and coaches aren't really doing him any favors either.I didn't see this past week's game, and no doubt one dropped pass by Jenkins isn't the whole answer for why Vick isn't a better passing QB. But there is a fine line between "not a great passer but good enough" and "bad passer". Last week, it sounds like if Jenkins made that play, he would have been the former rather than the latter.I know I did see his game against New Orleans a few weeks ago, and there were a handful of bad drops and a handful of other plays that could have been made by the receivers (including the TE Crumpler)... combined there were probably three plays that could have been passing TDs that were not made.I'm just saying that this bashing of his passing is over the top, just as at other times his hype is over the top. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. I personally believe he can improve as a passer, because not only can he improve his ability as a passer as he continues to gain experience, the conditions that contribute to his passing effectiveness can all improve as well.

I really like point #1. Vick isn't a west coast type QB. I know it, you know it, the public knows it! Why the Falcon coaching staff hasn't figured it yet out is beyone me.If they want to keep Vick as thier QB, they need to change the offense to suit his skills.If they want to run the west coast offense (or some variation of it) they need to trade Vick.

 

[hector31]

I'n not a Vick guy at all - in truth I'm a Schaub guy - but I saw every snap and he *definitely* had a bunch of passes dropped on him. The pass blocking was a problem all day too. Mind you he made some skittish throws, but the team around him didn't do Vick any favors in Week 6.

 

[SproutDaddy]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

Just for a point of reference, the 3 main recievers on ATL, Crumpler, Jenkins and White have combined for 6 dropped passes this year.

not sure who is keeping those stats, but i can easily remember 6 drops by Crumpler alone.

I watched the Monday night game at NO and Sunday's against the Giants. Roddy White rarely catches a thing. I remember him dropping AT LEAST 5 balls combined in both games. I had a feeling when I opened this thread it would be a Vick bashing thread.

 

[tlw109]

I'm a big Falcons fan and I've watched every Falcons game this year. The number of drops is easily in the double digits. Heck, Vick has had at least 6 tds dropped by his WRs and Crumpler. Roddy White seems to be the worst of the bunch. Why they haven't given Lelie a shot in the starting lineup is beyond me.

Also, how does a guy like Vick get sacked 7 times in a game? The Falcons O-line are really good at run blocking, but they stink at pass blocking.

 

[Stashy]

Speedy QB with a rifle and no touch.

Kordell anyone?

Good luck never winning the big ones with Vick.

 

[Da Guru]

Speedy QB with a rifle and no touch.Kordell anyone? Good luck never winning the big ones with Vick.

If Kordell was drafted #1 he still would be starting.

 

[Tony Jabroni]

Don't tell me Ed Donatell is laying blame....

:cheesehead:

 

[AcousticNut]

Speedy QB with a rifle and no touch.Kordell anyone? Good luck never winning the big ones with Vick.

If Kordell was drafted #1 he still would be starting.

The Kordell comparison is very interesting, because as a Steeler fan, I got to watch first-hand the rise and fall of Kordell Stewart. If I remember correctly, Kordell's big year was 1997 and a huge reason for that was that he had a great possession receiver in Yancy Thigpen. After Thigpen left, the Steelers WRs suddenly had a huge case of the 'dropsies' in 1998 and you could see Kordell's confidence in his receiving corp wither away as the season went on. As his receivers dropped more passes, he started to think too much about his throwing and tried to be too accurate and always make the 'perfect pass'. This took away from his natural talent for the game and thus contributed to his fantasy (and RL) downward spiral following that strong 1997 season.I see a lot of comparisons in Vick in that the more he loses confidence in his receivers, the more he's going to skip passes to them trying to be too perfect with his throws. He needs a good possession receiver that's going to make some of the difficult catches to get his passing game up to where it needs to be. Crumpler has been his security blanket, but this season Crumpler's dropping big passes as well.

 

[AcousticNut]

To follow up on my previous Kordell Stewart post, after 3 down years in the Steeler system, Kordell put together a fantastic 2001 year, finishing 3rd in the NFL MVP voting and taking the team to the AFC Championship game behind a 13-3 record.

The difference from the previous 3 years? The evolution of Hines Ward and the drafting of Plexico Burris. Good WRs can make a world of difference.

 

[Assani Fisher]

if Jenkins catches that pass, the Falcons win that game.

I did not see the game, but I've heard similar things from others - specificly that the WRs were dropping a lot of catchable passes. I don't think anyone would confuse Vick's throwing ability with Palmer's or Manning's, but, for those who saw the game, do you feel that the receivers were as responsible (or more) as Vick for the struggling passing game?

Just for a point of reference, the 3 main recievers on ATL, Crumpler, Jenkins and White have combined for 6 dropped passes this year. That's not exactly a number you associate with recievers having trouble catching the ball. Of course you can't catch what isn't catchable. Vick's passing completion % is 50.4%. Only Young, Walter & Collins are lower. I think this explains the problem better than blaming the recievers.

To be fair...I've seen 2 Atlanta games this year(the Saints game and the Giants one), and in my 15 or so years as a football fan I don't know if I've ever seen WRs be as completely covered on every play. They simply don't create separation.I'm a big fan of Vick, so take all of this with a dash of pepper, but I think that his accuracy problems are overblown. IMO he is just as accurate as someone like McNabb, and McNabb seems to have developed into a very good passing QB.

 

[juveduke]

Here's what happened the last time the Falcons and Steelers faced off. Things were much better under Reeves.

Look at the end of the scoring summary.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Of course Vick's to blame for the passing game. Why is this a question? Yes, the receivers drop balls they shouldn't, but ALL QBs have receivers who drop balls they shouldn't. The majority of the woes in the passing game are on Vick.I'm not exactly going to be shocked if this becomes much more relevant, obviously.

Vick is average passing the ball. Combine that with a line that is among the league's worst at pass blocking, a terrible set of receivers, a clueless OC, and you get the Falcon's passing attack, or lack thereof.

His career passer rating is a 75. I don't think that's even average in the NFL.

:whoosh: That rating is a result of every other element in the Falcon's passing attack being well below par.

So... that's the reason he has a passer rating just slightly below Charlie Frye this year? Everybody else?Is there anyone you think is in a similar situation this year at all?

 

[Loopdog]

fact is, his WR's wouldnt start on any other team in the league besides maybe over the half dead Peerless Price as the #2 in Buffalo.

They are terrible, if he had halfway serviceable wideouts, he'd be head and shoulders better. If he had a Randy Moss/TO/Holt/CJ type, he'd be unstoppable

 

[juveduke]

Of course Vick's to blame for the passing game. Why is this a question? Yes, the receivers drop balls they shouldn't, but ALL QBs have receivers who drop balls they shouldn't. The majority of the woes in the passing game are on Vick.I'm not exactly going to be shocked if this becomes much more relevant, obviously.

Vick is average passing the ball. Combine that with a line that is among the league's worst at pass blocking, a terrible set of receivers, a clueless OC, and you get the Falcon's passing attack, or lack thereof.

His career passer rating is a 75. I don't think that's even average in the NFL.

:whoosh: That rating is a result of every other element in the Falcon's passing attack being well below par.

So... that's the reason he has a passer rating just slightly below Charlie Frye this year? Everybody else?Is there anyone you think is in a similar situation this year at all?

I can't think of any other offense that sacrifices so much for the run, no.BTW, come up with something better than the QB rating to ctiticize Vick. It's heavily weighted for passing TDs.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Of course Vick's to blame for the passing game. Why is this a question? Yes, the receivers drop balls they shouldn't, but ALL QBs have receivers who drop balls they shouldn't. The majority of the woes in the passing game are on Vick.I'm not exactly going to be shocked if this becomes much more relevant, obviously.

Vick is average passing the ball. Combine that with a line that is among the league's worst at pass blocking, a terrible set of receivers, a clueless OC, and you get the Falcon's passing attack, or lack thereof.

His career passer rating is a 75. I don't think that's even average in the NFL.

:whoosh: That rating is a result of every other element in the Falcon's passing attack being well below par.

So... that's the reason he has a passer rating just slightly below Charlie Frye this year? Everybody else?Is there anyone you think is in a similar situation this year at all?

I can't think of any other offense that sacrifices so much for the run, no.BTW, come up with something better than the QB rating to ctiticize Vick. It's heavily weighted for passing TDs.

Okay. He's thrown for 165 yards more than Andrew Walter, with 2 more starts. That makes him 29th in the NFL. His TD to INT ratio is 1-1. His completion percentage is 50.4%.

 

[juveduke]

Of course Vick's to blame for the passing game. Why is this a question? Yes, the receivers drop balls they shouldn't, but ALL QBs have receivers who drop balls they shouldn't. The majority of the woes in the passing game are on Vick.I'm not exactly going to be shocked if this becomes much more relevant, obviously.

Vick is average passing the ball. Combine that with a line that is among the league's worst at pass blocking, a terrible set of receivers, a clueless OC, and you get the Falcon's passing attack, or lack thereof.

His career passer rating is a 75. I don't think that's even average in the NFL.

:whoosh: That rating is a result of every other element in the Falcon's passing attack being well below par.

So... that's the reason he has a passer rating just slightly below Charlie Frye this year? Everybody else?Is there anyone you think is in a similar situation this year at all?

I can't think of any other offense that sacrifices so much for the run, no.BTW, come up with something better than the QB rating to ctiticize Vick. It's heavily weighted for passing TDs.

Okay. He's thrown for 165 yards more than Andrew Walter, with 2 more starts. That makes him 29th in the NFL. His TD to INT ratio is 1-1. His completion percentage is 50.4%.

Looks like his rating is better than Walter's from where I'm sitting.

 

[VICK-tory]

Yeah I had to admit long ago that Vick can't throw. He really can't hit Wrs in stride.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

Of course Vick's to blame for the passing game. Why is this a question? Yes, the receivers drop balls they shouldn't, but ALL QBs have receivers who drop balls they shouldn't. The majority of the woes in the passing game are on Vick.I'm not exactly going to be shocked if this becomes much more relevant, obviously.

Vick is average passing the ball. Combine that with a line that is among the league's worst at pass blocking, a terrible set of receivers, a clueless OC, and you get the Falcon's passing attack, or lack thereof.

His career passer rating is a 75. I don't think that's even average in the NFL.

:whoosh: That rating is a result of every other element in the Falcon's passing attack being well below par.

So... that's the reason he has a passer rating just slightly below Charlie Frye this year? Everybody else?Is there anyone you think is in a similar situation this year at all?

I can't think of any other offense that sacrifices so much for the run, no.BTW, come up with something better than the QB rating to ctiticize Vick. It's heavily weighted for passing TDs.

Okay. He's thrown for 165 yards more than Andrew Walter, with 2 more starts. That makes him 29th in the NFL. His TD to INT ratio is 1-1. His completion percentage is 50.4%.

Looks like his rating is better than Walter's from where I'm sitting.

And you're saying that that makes him an average passer for an NFL starting QB? Being better than Andrew Walter?