FBG Furnace Guys - Furnace is Acting Up (1 Viewer)

[joker]

I've got a five year old gas furnace that has suddenly started sort of "heating when it wants to". It will blow out hot air, then shut off and give me an LED code reading of 13 and only blow out cold air or not blow out at all. If I reset the breaker the pilot light will come back on and it will blow hot air again, but then it will trip and switch to no air or cold air. In addition, I've got a little flame icon that has popped up on my thermostat.

The filter is brand new, it hasn't been too cold up here (around 40 or so in MN before the last few days, when it dropped down into the teens) and it's been a mild winter so the furnace hasn't been overworked. Can anyone shed some light on this? What other info do you need? For some added info, my thermostat starting acting up not too long ago and would just go completely dark unless I popped it off and then reconnected it, so I bought a new programmable one that I haven't installed yet but am ready to - could the old thermostat be contributing at all?

Does this sound like something that's an easy fix or am I going to be hosed (pleasepleaseno)? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DCThunder]

I've got a five year old gas furnace that has suddenly started sort of "heating when it wants to". It will blow out hot air, then shut off and give me an LED code reading of 13 and only blow out cold air or not blow out at all. If I reset the breaker the pilot light will come back on and it will blow hot air again, but then it will trip and switch to no air or cold air. In addition, I've got a little flame icon that has popped up on my thermostat. The filter is brand new, it's not too cold up here (around 40 or so in MN) and it's been a mild winter so the furnace hasn't been overworked. Can anyone shed some light on this? What other info do you need? For some added info, my thermostat starting acting up not too long ago and would just go completely dark unless I popped it off and then reconnected it, so I bought a new programmable one that I haven't installed yet but am ready to - could the old thermostat be contributing at all?Does this sound like something that's an easy fix or am I going to be hosed (pleasepleaseno)? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I just had to have the electronic igniter replaced in my gas furnace. I came home from spending Christmas at my brothers and the house was cold. Turning up the thermostat did nothing, so I had to call the repair man. My furnace has no standing pilot light, but uses this electronic igniter like what would be used in a diesel engine. I'll bet your furnace does too. Not something you can replace yourself, though, and the repairs to mine (on an emergency basis) cost around $500.Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that sounds like the problem.

 

[joker]

Thanks for the info. Mine doesn't have a standing pilot light either like the old ones, so it's very possible. I'm thinking we can make do until tomorrow when it won't be an emergency repair (I assume today is a holiday for most businesses), but I guess tomorrow I'll have to get the repair man out here

 

[joker]

Heater just popped on again and is blowing hot air, but I'm guessing the next time it does it will be cold air. Argghhhh....

 

[GroveDiesel]

If it's a gas furnace, you should be able to see if you have a flame or not. If it's blowing hot air at all, it seems like the igniter is working at least some of the time.

I would replace the thermostat first and see if that fixes the problem. It could be malfunctioning and sending the wrong info to the furnace.

 

[parasaurolophus]

What brand is it? Model number? Is it a 90%?

 

[parasaurolophus]

I've got a five year old gas furnace that has suddenly started sort of "heating when it wants to". It will blow out hot air, then shut off and give me an LED code reading of 13 and only blow out cold air or not blow out at all. If I reset the breaker the pilot light will come back on and it will blow hot air again, but then it will trip and switch to no air or cold air. In addition, I've got a little flame icon that has popped up on my thermostat. The filter is brand new, it's not too cold up here (around 40 or so in MN) and it's been a mild winter so the furnace hasn't been overworked. Can anyone shed some light on this? What other info do you need? For some added info, my thermostat starting acting up not too long ago and would just go completely dark unless I popped it off and then reconnected it, so I bought a new programmable one that I haven't installed yet but am ready to - could the old thermostat be contributing at all?Does this sound like something that's an easy fix or am I going to be hosed (pleasepleaseno)? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I just had to have the electronic igniter replaced in my gas furnace. I came home from spending Christmas at my brothers and the house was cold. Turning up the thermostat did nothing, so I had to call the repair man. My furnace has no standing pilot light, but uses this electronic igniter like what would be used in a diesel engine. I'll bet your furnace does too. Not something you can replace yourself, though, and the repairs to mine (on an emergency basis) cost around $500.Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that sounds like the problem.

I just replaced my ignitor and control panel by myself. The ignitor is actually very easy to replace. It cost me 70 bucks for a two pack of ignitors. The control panel turned out to be the root cause though as it was causing the ignitor to stay on continuously which is why it failed prematurely. I ended up with a code 13 because the heat of the ignitor always being on tripped the flame rollout safety switch.

 

[pittstownkiller]

I've got a five year old gas furnace that has suddenly started sort of "heating when it wants to". It will blow out hot air, then shut off and give me an LED code reading of 13 and only blow out cold air or not blow out at all. If I reset the breaker the pilot light will come back on and it will blow hot air again, but then it will trip and switch to no air or cold air. In addition, I've got a little flame icon that has popped up on my thermostat.

The filter is brand new, it's not too cold up here (around 40 or so in MN) and it's been a mild winter so the furnace hasn't been overworked. Can anyone shed some light on this? What other info do you need? For some added info, my thermostat starting acting up not too long ago and would just go completely dark unless I popped it off and then reconnected it, so I bought a new programmable one that I haven't installed yet but am ready to - could the old thermostat be contributing at all?

Does this sound like something that's an easy fix or am I going to be hosed (pleasepleaseno)? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I just had to have the electronic igniter replaced in my gas furnace. I came home from spending Christmas at my brothers and the house was cold. Turning up the thermostat did nothing, so I had to call the repair man. My furnace has no standing pilot light, but uses this electronic igniter like what would be used in a diesel engine. I'll bet your furnace does too. Not something you can replace yourself, though, and the repairs to mine (on an emergency basis) cost around $500.Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that sounds like the problem.

I just replaced my ignitor and control panel by myself. The ignitor is actually very easy to replace. It cost me 70 bucks for a two pack of ignitors. The control panel turned out to be the root cause though as it was causing the ignitor to stay on continuously which is why it failed prematurely. I ended up with a code 13 because the heat of the ignitor always being on tripped the flame rollout safety switch.

this is where I would look. I would say that you either don't have all the panels in place correctly or you have effected you draft somehow (blocked chimney or make-up air vent). The furnace is acting correctly in shutting down the gas but runnin the fan to cool itself. Try to look inside the furnace when it has flame and see where the flame an heat is going. Around the exhaust, or chimney is a sensor that looks like a dime with 2 wires going in and out of it; this can also be located on the ******** hat of the stack pipe. This sensor is detecting heat, which of course is CO fumes, and is a very dangerous condition. See if something is blocking your chimney or the fresh air intake for your furnace, ASAP! If you can't remedy this call a serviceman, today!

 

[pittstownkiller]

Are you alive?

 

[joker]

I'm alive, yes - sorry, I worked all weekend. I'll check the scene when I get home to make sure nothing is blocking what you were talking about. Where would the fresh air intake be? AFAIK, nothing has changed so I'm not sure why anything would be blocking it or the chimney. I live in a tuck-under townhouse on an end-unit so there are no trees/bushes to block them. I'm not really sure where to check, but can describe or take pictures if someone wants to tell me where to look or what to look for. My entire unit is housed in the laundry room and I can get at most of it...

 

[pittstownkiller]

I'm alive, yes - sorry, I worked all weekend. I'll check the scene when I get home to make sure nothing is blocking what you were talking about. Where would the fresh air intake be? AFAIK, nothing has changed so I'm not sure why anything would be blocking it or the chimney. I live in a tuck-under townhouse on an end-unit so there are no trees/bushes to block them. I'm not really sure where to check, but can describe or take pictures if someone wants to tell me where to look or what to look for. My entire unit is housed in the laundry room and I can get at most of it...

This sort of thing is what I am referring to. If everything is packed up tight against the unit it can effect your draft; the chimney (stack) being dislodged can do the same thing. Take a look, take photos if you would like (it would most likely be difficult to troubleshoot accurately just from those), and see if your door to that room is sealing the room to well to allow outside air infiltration. Other possibilities are that the dryer, by exhausting its air, is causing negative pressure in that room which will suck air back down the chimney causing the flame roll-out condition or that your gas dryer (?) is sharing the same chimney with your furnace and there is not enough diameter in the pipe to allow this.

 

[shaunmzs]

Check the flame sense rod. looks like a small diameter (about as thick as a cue-tip without the cotton ball on the end) metal rod that sits in the path of the flame to sense the heat. Sometimes these get a layer of something that is hard to see but if you clean it with a piece of steel wool or fine sand paper it will fix the problem. That is if the furnace is starting up normally, igniting the gas, then shuts of within a few seconds and try's again till it errors out....

 

[Payne]

Check the flame sense rod. looks like a small diameter (about as thick as a cue-tip without the cotton ball on the end) metal rod that sits in the path of the flame to sense the heat. Sometimes these get a layer of something that is hard to see but if you clean it with a piece of steel wool or fine sand paper it will fix the problem. That is if the furnace is starting up normally, igniting the gas, then shuts of within a few seconds and try's again till it errors out....

I have to do this about every other winter. After paying the guy for the 2nd time in four years, I watched him. You clean it with steel wool. Good as new.They are fragile though. They will break. Or buy a spare and have it ready.

 

[joker]

Check the flame sense rod. looks like a small diameter (about as thick as a cue-tip without the cotton ball on the end) metal rod that sits in the path of the flame to sense the heat. Sometimes these get a layer of something that is hard to see but if you clean it with a piece of steel wool or fine sand paper it will fix the problem. That is if the furnace is starting up normally, igniting the gas, then shuts of within a few seconds and try's again till it errors out....

I have to do this about every other winter. After paying the guy for the 2nd time in four years, I watched him. You clean it with steel wool. Good as new.They are fragile though. They will break. Or buy a spare and have it ready.

My furnace has three circular "flame blowers" (for lack of a better word) that shoot out flame when the furnace is on, and in between the first and second flame blowers from the left is a split metal piece that sits in the path of the flame. Could this be the flame sense rod, only instead of one rod it's actually two? Both are about the width of a Q-tip. Whatever the thing is, it's covered in a very sparkly coating.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Check the flame sense rod. looks like a small diameter (about as thick as a cue-tip without the cotton ball on the end) metal rod that sits in the path of the flame to sense the heat. Sometimes these get a layer of something that is hard to see but if you clean it with a piece of steel wool or fine sand paper it will fix the problem. That is if the furnace is starting up normally, igniting the gas, then shuts of within a few seconds and try's again till it errors out....

I have to do this about every other winter. After paying the guy for the 2nd time in four years, I watched him. You clean it with steel wool. Good as new.They are fragile though. They will break. Or buy a spare and have it ready.

My furnace has three circular "flame blowers" (for lack of a better word) that shoot out flame when the furnace is on, and in between the first and second flame blowers from the left is a split metal piece that sits in the path of the flame. Could this be the flame sense rod, only instead of one rod it's actually two? Both are about the width of a Q-tip. Whatever the thing is, it's covered in a very sparkly coating.

does it look like anything on this page?http://arnoldservice.com/goodman_janitrol_ignitors.htm

 

[joker]

Yep - looks exactly like the Goodman Janitrol Furnace Hot Surface Ignitor Part #B1401018S, only it's all sparkly

 

[joker]

Do you think the sparkly stuff is a buildup on the igniter? I have steel wool that I could try to clean it with.

I checked the outside air intake and it looks fine. I shop-vac'd the outside vent to remove all the dust, and the inside end is certainly allowing cold air in. As far as I can tell there are no blockages, although I haven't been on the roof to check the chimney. We haven't had any major snow, though, and it's a high sloped peak w/not trees nearby, so I'm not sure what could block it. The furnace itself looks fine w/no rust, water, etc., although the inner workings are a little dusty. Nothing is blocking it/laid against it/ etc.

Not sure where to go from here, but I'm all ears if there's more advice. Trying not to call the furnace guy if I can avoid it.

 

[DCThunder]

Yep - looks exactly like the Goodman Janitrol Furnace Hot Surface Ignitor Part #B1401018S, only it's all sparkly

That's the part that had to be replaced in my furnace on New Years Eve. Except the part that had to be replaced had a black line across the prongs where the thing short circuited and failed. I'd replace the part and be done with it. I think some posters have lead you down blind alleys when the problem is staring you in the face. If the part is giving problems, cleaning it will only delay the inevitable to some night when it's -20 outside and snowing.

 

[joker]

I'm cool with that. Is this something I can get locally or do I have to order it online?

 

[DCThunder]

I'm cool with that. Is this something I can get locally or do I have to order it online?

I have no idea, I'd have a professional do it.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Do you think the sparkly stuff is a buildup on the igniter? I have steel wool that I could try to clean it with. I checked the outside air intake and it looks fine. I shop-vac'd the outside vent to remove all the dust, and the inside end is certainly allowing cold air in. As far as I can tell there are no blockages, although I haven't been on the roof to check the chimney. We haven't had any major snow, though, and it's a high sloped peak w/not trees nearby, so I'm not sure what could block it. The furnace itself looks fine w/no rust, water, etc., although the inner workings are a little dusty. Nothing is blocking it/laid against it/ etc.Not sure where to go from here, but I'm all ears if there's more advice. Trying not to call the furnace guy if I can avoid it.

Do not touch the ignitor. It is supposed to be "sparkly".Your furnace vents out of your chimney? It must not be a 90% furnace then. I sent you a PM with a list of questions. Any updates on those? Are you able to film the firing sequence? If not can you at least describe it. When does it shut down? Does the burner box get real hot?

 

[joker]

I'm cool with that. Is this something I can get locally or do I have to order it online?

I have no idea, I'd have a professional do it.

Checked this out and it's fine, according to an co-worker's HVAC hubby. He had me pull the flame sensor and clean it, but still no go. I did notice that my code is a 33 that changes to a 13 after a few minutes. The guide says that usually means something is obstructed, but so far I can't find anything blocked. Looks like I may have to have the HVAC hubby come out and spend the money after all. Good thing it's warming up here in MN...

 

[joker]

Do you think the sparkly stuff is a buildup on the igniter? I have steel wool that I could try to clean it with. I checked the outside air intake and it looks fine. I shop-vac'd the outside vent to remove all the dust, and the inside end is certainly allowing cold air in. As far as I can tell there are no blockages, although I haven't been on the roof to check the chimney. We haven't had any major snow, though, and it's a high sloped peak w/not trees nearby, so I'm not sure what could block it. The furnace itself looks fine w/no rust, water, etc., although the inner workings are a little dusty. Nothing is blocking it/laid against it/ etc.Not sure where to go from here, but I'm all ears if there's more advice. Trying not to call the furnace guy if I can avoid it.

Do not touch the ignitor. It is supposed to be "sparkly".Your furnace vents out of your chimney? It must not be a 90% furnace then. I sent you a PM with a list of questions. Any updates on those? Are you able to film the firing sequence? If not can you at least describe it. When does it shut down? Does the burner box get real hot?

I've got a cold air intake (I think that's what it is) that runs from underneath my front balcony, straight through my garage to the laundry room on the ground floor, where it ends in flexible tubing. I shop-vac'd the outside vent, and can feel the cold air coming from the flexible tubing end in the laundry room, so I assume that it's not blocked. The furnace itself has ductwork that shoots up into the ceiling but I'm not sure where it goes after that , so I can't be positive that it vents through the chimney. I'll try to answer all your PM questions and film the firing sequence for you.

 

[joker]

Update on this situation: My co-worker had the same situation about a week before I did, and the HVAC guy that he hired to come out and look at his furnace told him that there was a good chance he was using a filter that was too energy efficient. *headexplode*

He had me go home, pop my high efficiency filter up out of the slot about 4 inches and put a finish nail into it to keep it up there so air could flow freely into the furnace. I did as he said and the furnace kicked on and started running normally, and my codes went away. I then went out and bought the cheap-o filters at 4 for $3, popped one in like normal, and the furnace has been humming along ever since

I'm not an HVAC guy, so I don't know, but I'm sure that I hadn't changed the filter in too many months, so I wonder if it tripped something on my furnace once the airflow became too low, and even putting in a new filter didn't help because it was so high efficiency? And that only getting a clear airflow in for a few hours was the key to getting it back to normal? At any rate, it's been working fine since then and my plan for now is to replace the cheap filters every first of the month when I do bills and see what happens. Thanks to everyone in here who chimed in, it's much appreciated.

PS - in the interest of full disclosure we did have a period of very warm weather that coincided with all of this, so it's possible that there was a chimney blockage (snow, ice, etc.) that somehow went away with the warm weather. It's just odd that the problem totally cleared up once I propped the filter up and allowed straight airflow into the furnace for those few hours.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Update on this situation: My co-worker had the same situation about a week before I did, and the HVAC guy that he hired to come out and look at his furnace told him that there was a good chance he was using a filter that was too energy efficient. *headexplode* He had me go home, pop my high efficiency filter up out of the slot about 4 inches and put a finish nail into it to keep it up there so air could flow freely into the furnace. I did as he said and the furnace kicked on and started running normally, and my codes went away. I then went out and bought the cheap-o filters at 4 for $3, popped one in like normal, and the furnace has been humming along ever since I'm not an HVAC guy, so I don't know, but I'm sure that I hadn't changed the filter in too many months, so I wonder if it tripped something on my furnace once the airflow became too low, and even putting in a new filter didn't help because it was so high efficiency? And that only getting a clear airflow in for a few hours was the key to getting it back to normal? At any rate, it's been working fine since then and my plan for now is to replace the cheap filters every first of the month when I do bills and see what happens. Thanks to everyone in here who chimed in, it's much appreciated.PS - in the interest of full disclosure we did have a period of very warm weather that coincided with all of this, so it's possible that there was a chimney blockage (snow, ice, etc.) that somehow went away with the warm weather. It's just odd that the problem totally cleared up once I propped the filter up and allowed straight airflow into the furnace for those few hours.

It sounds like you got it. By restricting the amount of air going across the heat-exchanger, the unit was over-heating and going off on high limit (which is why the fan kept running but no flame). I thought that you had said that you had a flame roll-out condition?

 

[LittleLarry]

Hi - quick question for those that might know

When my furnace fires up lately, I get the distinct odor of burnt dust throughout the house.

Is this something I should be worried about?