Federal Agents Converge On Vick Property (1 Viewer)

[ELI2TYREE]

Why do people assume that if they find something that Vick is guilty? He didn't live there and if they can't tie him directly to it he likely won't be charged.

It doesn't look like they will find anything at all conclusive about dog fighting anyway, but even if they do don't assume Mike Vick will be the one charged with it.

These Vick threads just get more pathetic every day. Enjoy the witch hunt boys.

It's his property and he is still resonsibile for how it's used. Why do you assume he wasn't there when it was used for dog fighting. Have you seen his cousin? That guy couldn't bankroll this operation.

What does this mean? Your looks determine the amount of money you have or can have? Simply amazing and I will leave it like that

Do you think that guy has the smarts or experience to bankroll a large dog fighting operation.

I reserve judgment because I, just like you obviously, don't know the guy from a bottle of water. I ask, can you just look at a picture and tell if a person has or does not have money? How do you really know if someone has a bankroll, as you say, or not. It is a stereotypical statement you made without facts that is why I am pointing it out. Example, if the 4 guys who own FUBU (millionaires) walked into your office or knocked on your door would you know if they were fashion designers or thugs? If you saw a picture of me, I make 6 figures, would you say I was a thug or a working class citizen. My point to you is education and simply do not judge a book by the cover. I hope you can understand where I am coming from because I can tell you probably have not been where I have been.

My friend, I understand what you are saying here, but people have the right to express their opinions or their impressions of a situation, whether they be right or wrong. If the first impression someone has of comeone says "lower class, poor, uneducated," they have a right to that impression. If it's wrong it's wrong. But to sit here and say, "let's reserve judgment" over and over is ridiculous. We are here on this thread to share whatver news we find, our judgements and opinions on that news. To keep saying we don't know all the facts is stating the obvious, but as the story develops we should be allowed to comment on it as we see it.

 

[3C's]

This can't help Vick out much either:

<snip>

"When the Liberty County sheriff's office began snooping for leads, they found a road that led in all directions. Pittsburgh. Atlanta. Los Angeles. Dayton, Ohio. Even Ecuador.

And they kept hearing one name in particular: Michael Vick. "Ohhhh, yes," said sheriff's Capt. Chip Fairchild. "When we were in Dayton, they mentioned it there. In Atlanta and Pittsburgh, too. They all knew about Michael Vick being into it and sinking big dollars into it. We kept hearing that over and over."

<snip>

Link

 

[fatness]

He apparantly doeesn't believe in executing search warrants in a timely manner before evidence can be removed either. That's my interpretation of why the Feds moved quickly. My interpretation of not involving him in the discussions is that they may feel he was knowingly allowing evidence to be removed. Do you have another guess as to why they would usurp his authority in such a manner?

Yes, I have 2 guesses. 1. A followup search to the April search that the feds conducted looking for evidence against Vick's cousin who lived on the property.2. A decision by someone that "hey, we need to get involved in this Vick thing" for PR reasons. I guess a similar example of that would be how state and federal governments injected themselves into the Terry Shiavo "case", which was already being handled by other legitimate government entities.Those are just guesses, with some connection to reality.

 

[fatness]

Does anyone have a link confirming the dog carcasses were found? I have looked and found nothing.

No.There was an apparently-erroneous report earlier from WVEC-TV that carcasses were found. They pulled their story. This is what PFT has to say about it:

POSTED 6:22 a.m. EDT, June 9, 2007

WVEC DROPS CLAIM THAT 30-PLUS DOG CARCASSES WERE FOUND

Several readers have pointed out to us that WVEC-TV has dropped without explanation from its web site a statement that ESPN Radio has reported that nearly three dozen dead dogs were found on the property owned by Mike Vick in Surry County, Virginia.

Attention, WVEC: You can't just make a claim like that, drop it, and make no mention as to why you've done so.

We suspect that the error resulted from WVEC's interpretation of an interview of ESPN's Kelly Naqi during Friday's Dan Patrick Show on ESPN Radio. Naqi said that the suspicion was that up to 37 dogs were buried on the property. She never said that 37 dogs have been actually found there.

With that said, it's our understanding that WAVY-TV's Mary Kay Mallonee said during a Friday afternoon appearance with Rick Ballou on 1010XL in Jacksonville that dog carcasses were found on the property, and that investigators were happy with the outcome of the search.

AOL Sports link as well

 

[fatness]

Direct link to raw video of property search from helicopter

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

As to the prosecutor:

He had a dog fighting ring prosecution going with 30-something counts in the recent past which was dismissed because of an improper warrant. That's why he's gun-shy now, I bet.

As to the 30-something dogs on the property:

If that's the case, and they're not puppies, this was unequivocally a dog-fighting operation. Frankly, with the media descriptions of the property where dogs are chained in a dog yard which keeps them just inches from one another but never able to connect is probably enough to say it's definitely a dog-fighting operation, but whatever.

 

[nightmare]

Being silent=being guilty-in most peoples eyes anyway.

M Vick(if innocent) should come out and say "this is what I did/what I know".

"Yes, this is bad judgment about my cousin in my house"

"Yes, having that many dogs there looks bad"

"Yes, selling the house for half price doesn't look good but I want this behind me"

"Yes I was at some dog fights and gambled on them"

"I'm sorry, I've done some things I now regret"

Hiding behind lawyers and waiting for the cops/feds to find the truth

makes M Vick GUILTY-my opinion/judgment.

Coming out and saying you're sorry after the charges have been leveled

means NOTHING.

 

[Big Score]

So were there any actual dog carcasses found, or not?

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

So were there any actual dog carcasses found, or not?

That information will be released when the Feds are ready to either file charges or not. Federal investigators are pretty tight-lipped until they know exactly what they're charging, etc. They want control of the information.

 

[Big Score]

So were there any actual dog carcasses found, or not?

That information will be released when the Feds are ready to either file charges or not. Federal investigators are pretty tight-lipped until they know exactly what they're charging, etc. They want control of the information.

I take it from the above that basically no one really knows if the Feds found any dog carcasses, or not?So the published report of 37 dog carcasses being found was bunk? Is that right?

 

[fatness]

So the published report of 37 dog carcasses being found was bunk? Is that right?

That appears to be correct --- it was bunk.

 

[Chaos Commish]

This can't help Vick out much either:

<snip>

"When the Liberty County sheriff's office began snooping for leads, they found a road that led in all directions. Pittsburgh. Atlanta. Los Angeles. Dayton, Ohio. Even Ecuador.

And they kept hearing one name in particular: Michael Vick. "Ohhhh, yes," said sheriff's Capt. Chip Fairchild. "When we were in Dayton, they mentioned it there. In Atlanta and Pittsburgh, too. They all knew about Michael Vick being into it and sinking big dollars into it. We kept hearing that over and over."

<snip>

Link

This is a good read all the way through. Recommended reading. I think we should exercise caution with any quotes for now, but wow, they paint Vick with the same brush ESPN did and this time it's just law enforcement discussing indirect information re. Vick from another huge dogfighting operation.I wonder if he wishes he set Boddie up in Georgia?

In Georgia, for instance, it's not illegal to be a spectator or even to breed dogs with the purpose of fighting.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

So were there any actual dog carcasses found, or not?

That information will be released when the Feds are ready to either file charges or not. Federal investigators are pretty tight-lipped until they know exactly what they're charging, etc. They want control of the information.

I take it from the above that basically no one really knows if the Feds found any dog carcasses, or not?So the published report of 37 dog carcasses being found was bunk? Is that right?

What I've read suggests that the Feds went in response to reports that there were dozens of dogs buried on the property and reporters watched what looked like remains being removed from the property. They drew the conclusion that they1) actually were remains and2) were dog remains.

 

[Big Score]

So were there any actual dog carcasses found, or not?

That information will be released when the Feds are ready to either file charges or not. Federal investigators are pretty tight-lipped until they know exactly what they're charging, etc. They want control of the information.

I take it from the above that basically no one really knows if the Feds found any dog carcasses, or not?So the published report of 37 dog carcasses being found was bunk? Is that right?

What I've read suggests that the Feds went in response to reports that there were dozens of dogs buried on the property and reporters watched what looked like remains being removed from the property. They drew the conclusion that they1) actually were remains and2) were dog remains.

I guess this is a polite way of saying that the report was indeed bunk?

 

[jonessed]

So were there any actual dog carcasses found, or not?

That information will be released when the Feds are ready to either file charges or not. Federal investigators are pretty tight-lipped until they know exactly what they're charging, etc. They want control of the information.

I take it from the above that basically no one really knows if the Feds found any dog carcasses, or not?So the published report of 37 dog carcasses being found was bunk? Is that right?

What I've read suggests that the Feds went in response to reports that there were dozens of dogs buried on the property and reporters watched what looked like remains being removed from the property. They drew the conclusion that they1) actually were remains and2) were dog remains.

I guess this is a polite way of saying that the report was indeed bunk?

Not really. It just means the Feds won't confirm it.

 

[redman]

More than 30 carcasses found on Vick property.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/storie...e.29fbf67a.html

Vick is toast, goodell already told him he is responsible for what goes on on his property.

WHen did he tell him that .If they cant link him directly nothing will happen to Vick, he might get the feds on his ### but if thewy cant prove he was there too bad.

The government may not be able to get a conviction, but the NFL does not need one. A player can be suspended even without having charges filed. Interesting, that the informant told them they would find carcasses and they did. And an informant (not sure if the same one) also said Vick is involved in dogfighting.

And if these carcasses are adult dogs, it sounds less likely that this was just a dog breeding business. I could see an occasional young pup not making it, but not 30+ adult dogs.

Not only that, but I'm sure they're going to conduct necropsies, and if they detect injuries on those dogs they'll have very good circumstantial evidence of dog fighting.

 

[fatness]

I guess this is a polite way of saying that the report was indeed bunk?

There's no reason to believe the report came from anyone involved in the search. There is reason to belive it came from a misunderstanding about (or willful distortion of) a Friday interview on a sports show.

......an interview of ESPN's Kelly Naqi during Friday's Dan Patrick Show on ESPN Radio. Naqi said that the suspicion was that up to 37 dogs were buried on the property. She never said that 37 dogs have been actually found there.

AOL Sports link

 

[ELI2TYREE]

watcht that clip of the feds diggin in the back yard and tell me another reason for handing out face masks while they are diggin in that hole. Personally, I thought I saw the outline of the rear half of a dog in that mud which they were prodding around, right before they handed out the masks. From what I've read, whether the 30 carcasses report was "verified" or not, I truly believe the feds found carcasses, and are just being tight lipped until the time is right to release that information before a grand jury, if not sooner.

 

[Big Score]

So were there any actual dog carcasses found, or not?

That information will be released when the Feds are ready to either file charges or not. Federal investigators are pretty tight-lipped until they know exactly what they're charging, etc. They want control of the information.

I take it from the above that basically no one really knows if the Feds found any dog carcasses, or not?So the published report of 37 dog carcasses being found was bunk? Is that right?

What I've read suggests that the Feds went in response to reports that there were dozens of dogs buried on the property and reporters watched what looked like remains being removed from the property. They drew the conclusion that they1) actually were remains and2) were dog remains.

I guess this is a polite way of saying that the report was indeed bunk?

Not really. It just means the Feds won't confirm it.

Then why did they pull the report?

 

[Big Score]

watcht that clip of the feds diggin in the back yard and tell me another reason for handing out face masks while they are diggin in that hole.

Guess you've never hit a leach field pipe from a septic tank before.

 

[Slider]

So were there any actual dog carcasses found, or not?

That information will be released when the Feds are ready to either file charges or not. Federal investigators are pretty tight-lipped until they know exactly what they're charging, etc. They want control of the information.

I take it from the above that basically no one really knows if the Feds found any dog carcasses, or not?So the published report of 37 dog carcasses being found was bunk? Is that right?

What I've read suggests that the Feds went in response to reports that there were dozens of dogs buried on the property and reporters watched what looked like remains being removed from the property. They drew the conclusion that they1) actually were remains and2) were dog remains.

I guess this is a polite way of saying that the report was indeed bunk?

Not really. It just means the Feds won't confirm it.

Then why did they pull the report?

Common sense would say because they are gathering evidence and don't want to show their hand (like every other case in the world). You are acting like you want the end result to something that is in the early stages.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It's 11 minutes long but interesting interview with Davon Boddie (Vick's Cousin) http://wavy.com/global/video/popup/pop_pla...ane=info&pl

Sorry if honda.

J

 

[Chaos Commish]

watcht that clip of the feds diggin in the back yard and tell me another reason for handing out face masks while they are diggin in that hole. Personally, I thought I saw the outline of the rear half of a dog in that mud which they were prodding around, right before they handed out the masks. From what I've read, whether the 30 carcasses report was "verified" or not, I truly believe the feds found carcasses, and are just being tight lipped until the time is right to release that information before a grand jury, if not sooner.

I agree they probably found what they were looking for. The report that the feds were "happy" with the search doesn't validate errant reporting of carcasses, but the error doesn't compel me to believe the search was a failure. That seems unreasonable. Definitely need better definition for those clips. The masks were telling, and so was that Ute with the bed loaded... with... stuff they probably found. Boddie calling the carcasses "planted" verifies something was found or maybe he too was reacting to bad reporting?

 

[BusMan]

watcht that clip of the feds diggin in the back yard and tell me another reason for handing out face masks while they are diggin in that hole.

Guess you've never hit a leach field pipe from a septic tank before.

Would that still apply to the heavily-wooded area shown in the clip?

 

[Big Score]

So were there any actual dog carcasses found, or not?

That information will be released when the Feds are ready to either file charges or not. Federal investigators are pretty tight-lipped until they know exactly what they're charging, etc. They want control of the information.

I take it from the above that basically no one really knows if the Feds found any dog carcasses, or not?So the published report of 37 dog carcasses being found was bunk? Is that right?

What I've read suggests that the Feds went in response to reports that there were dozens of dogs buried on the property and reporters watched what looked like remains being removed from the property. They drew the conclusion that they1) actually were remains and2) were dog remains.

I guess this is a polite way of saying that the report was indeed bunk?

Not really. It just means the Feds won't confirm it.

Then why did they pull the report?

Common sense would say because they are gathering evidence and don't want to show their hand (like every other case in the world). You are acting like you want the end result to something that is in the early stages.

Not acting like anything. Just wanted to know if the initial report saying 37 dog carcasses were found was true or not?But you're saying that the initial report, that a plethora of other media sources picked up and carried as well, was pulled because the Feds don't want to show their hand?I'd say that considering how many mainstream media outlets have now recarried that initial report, the Feds hand was already tipped.So that can't be the reason the report was pulled.What other reason would they have for pulling the report?

 

[Big Score]

watcht that clip of the feds diggin in the back yard and tell me another reason for handing out face masks while they are diggin in that hole.

Guess you've never hit a leach field pipe from a septic tank before.

Would that still apply to the heavily-wooded area shown in the clip?

Doubtful

 

[Chaos Commish]

What other reason would they have for pulling the report?

The link is at AOL, but I am not looking for it. The report was not pulled by the Feds. The report was pulled by the tv station that published it. They misinterpreted part of the story. Like everyone following this closely they had numbers-- 30 old carcasses and 7 fresh ones. They thought, erroneously, that those numbers were actual discovery. They were not. They were the numbers an informant provided and said were buried on the property. None of this means nothing was found. It just means we were subject to very bad journalism.

 

[Big Score]

What other reason would they have for pulling the report?

The link is at AOL, but I am not looking for it. The report was not pulled by the Feds. The report was pulled by the tv station that published it. They misinterpreted part of the story. Like everyone following this closely they had numbers-- 30 old carcasses and 7 fresh ones. They thought, erroneously, that those numbers were actual discovery. They were not. They were the numbers an informant provided and said were buried on the property. None of this means nothing was found. It just means we were subject to very bad journalism.

Gotcha. Thanks

 

[ELI2TYREE]

watcht that clip of the feds diggin in the back yard and tell me another reason for handing out face masks while they are diggin in that hole.

Guess you've never hit a leach field pipe from a septic tank before.

Would that still apply to the heavily-wooded area shown in the clip?

Doubtful

i don't think you'd run septic pipes out under trees...

 

[3C's]

So were there any actual dog carcasses found, or not?

That information will be released when the Feds are ready to either file charges or not. Federal investigators are pretty tight-lipped until they know exactly what they're charging, etc. They want control of the information.

I take it from the above that basically no one really knows if the Feds found any dog carcasses, or not?So the published report of 37 dog carcasses being found was bunk? Is that right?

What I've read suggests that the Feds went in response to reports that there were dozens of dogs buried on the property and reporters watched what looked like remains being removed from the property. They drew the conclusion that they1) actually were remains and2) were dog remains.

I guess this is a polite way of saying that the report was indeed bunk?

Not really. It just means the Feds won't confirm it.

Then why did they pull the report?

Correction: Friday, WVEC.com reported information about dog remains allegedly found at the Vick property. We attributed the information to ESPN Radio. That information was not reported by ESPN and cannot be confirmed by WVEC. We regret the error.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Some of this was new news to me

The news that Vick is at the center of the case is not a surprise to Goodwin, who said he had been hearing about the quarterback's alleged involvement in dog-fighting for years.

"We started a reward fund offering up to $2,500 for information that leads to an arrest and conviction for dog fighting, and that's when we started hearing that Michael Vick was involved," Goodwin said. "That was in 2004. There was nothing we could do about it at the time, because it wasn't substantive enough."

...

"It's being investigated," said Poindexter, who added the dogs found on the property were in good health. "We're not dragging our feet. This case, in terms of its priority, if it were not for the celebrity status of Vick, it wouldn't mean much to me. It's a Class 6 felony, which is the lowest grade of felony. After that, it's misdemeanors."

 

[3C's]

Some of this was new news to me

The news that Vick is at the center of the case is not a surprise to Goodwin, who said he had been hearing about the quarterback's alleged involvement in dog-fighting for years.

"We started a reward fund offering up to $2,500 for information that leads to an arrest and conviction for dog fighting, and that's when we started hearing that Michael Vick was involved," Goodwin said. "That was in 2004. There was nothing we could do about it at the time, because it wasn't substantive enough."

...

"It's being investigated," said Poindexter, who added the dogs found on the property were in good health. "We're not dragging our feet. This case, in terms of its priority, if it were not for the celebrity status of Vick, it wouldn't mean much to me. It's a Class 6 felony, which is the lowest grade of felony. After that, it's misdemeanors."

I think (speculate) that the people on the inside, dog fighting investigators, had been hearing Vick's name for quite a while and that's why Ms. Strouse said "We got him, we got Vick" or whatever it was she said.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

Getting back to Ray Buchanan's chirping about knowing Vick was into 'dog fighting'. I find it kind of amusing that Buchanan himself was wearing a studded dog collar the year the Falcons attempted to play the Broncos in the Super Bowl:

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/michael...p1_buchanan.jpg

 

[bcr8f]

LT's take on dog fighting.

 

[kingmalaki]

How is dog fighting bad but the rodeo isn't, or foxhunting, or hunting for sport in general? I understand one is legal and one isn't (i.e. weed and liquor)......

 

[Chaos Commish]

How is dog fighting bad but the rodeo isn't, or foxhunting, or hunting for sport in general? I understand one is legal and one isn't (i.e. weed and liquor)......

This has been beaten to death in the FFA, and that's where it belongs. Let's not get started again and destroy another thread. You can search for the threads there and kick start the conversation, thanks.

 

[bcr8f]

How is dog fighting bad but the rodeo isn't, or foxhunting, or hunting for sport in general? I understand one is legal and one isn't (i.e. weed and liquor)......

Clinton is that you?At least hunted animals are free until they are shot.

 

[kingmalaki]

How is dog fighting bad but the rodeo isn't, or foxhunting, or hunting for sport in general? I understand one is legal and one isn't (i.e. weed and liquor)......

This has been beaten to death in the FFA, and that's where it belongs. Let's not get started again and destroy another thread. You can search for the threads there and kick start the conversation, thanks.

Sorry. My fault.

 

[gman8343]

LT's take on dog fighting.

Portis should take notes.

 

[roadkill1292]

Why do people assume that if they find something that Vick is guilty? He didn't live there and if they can't tie him directly to it he likely won't be charged.

It doesn't look like they will find anything at all conclusive about dog fighting anyway, but even if they do don't assume Mike Vick will be the one charged with it.

These Vick threads just get more pathetic every day. Enjoy the witch hunt boys.

It's his property and he is still resonsibile for how it's used. Why do you assume he wasn't there when it was used for dog fighting. Have you seen his cousin? That guy couldn't bankroll this operation.

What does this mean? Your looks determine the amount of money you have or can have? Simply amazing and I will leave it like that

Do you think that guy has the smarts or experience to bankroll a large dog fighting operation.

I reserve judgment because I, just like you obviously, don't know the guy from a bottle of water. I ask, can you just look at a picture and tell if a person has or does not have money? How do you really know if someone has a bankroll, as you say, or not. It is a stereotypical statement you made without facts that is why I am pointing it out. Example, if the 4 guys who own FUBU (millionaires) walked into your office or knocked on your door would you know if they were fashion designers or thugs? If you saw a picture of me, I make 6 figures, would you say I was a thug or a working class citizen. My point to you is education and simply do not judge a book by the cover. I hope you can understand where I am coming from because I can tell you probably have not been where I have been.

My friend, I understand what you are saying here, but people have the right to express their opinions or their impressions of a situation, whether they be right or wrong. If the first impression someone has of comeone says "lower class, poor, uneducated," they have a right to that impression. If it's wrong it's wrong. But to sit here and say, "let's reserve judgment" over and over is ridiculous. We are here on this thread to share whatver news we find, our judgements and opinions on that news. To keep saying we don't know all the facts is stating the obvious, but as the story develops we should be allowed to comment on it as we see it.

What I do, see, is, I have this mat. And it's got these conclusions on it. And then I jump to one of them. "Jump to conclusions." Get it? It's gonna make me a million.

 

[Stealthycat]

How is dog fighting bad but the rodeo isn't, or foxhunting, or hunting for sport in general? quote]I'll take that one, seeing as how I'm a life long hunter.

A rodeo isn't fighting, its not bloodshed, the whole sport isn't about one animal killing another for human enjoyment. Foxhunting is 99% about running the dogs and riding the horses. Foxes aren't game animals, they're considered predators and nusicant animals in most places, varmits.

Now for hunting. Hunting is a sport that has nothing to do with watching an animal die or torn apart and getting your giggles from it. Hunting is about being in the woods, enjoying the enviroment, and if you'r elucky killing a deer quick and clean and enjoying the best meat on earth. Remember that almost ALL of the conservation efforts in this country are through hunters funding them, if it wasn't for hunters, and the Robertson / Pittman act, there would be but a fraction of the wildlife we have today.

Pit bull fighting is about money, greed, bloodlust, watching man's best friend tear apart another, and laughing about it. Its about back alley betting, slipping around the law, illegal activities and dog killing.

There aint no comparisons between hunting and dog fighting

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Just so I have it straight.

Mike Vick has a passionate hobby, dog breeding. He is so passionate about the hobby that he obtains a license, purchases a half a million dollar piece of property that is furnished with big screen plasma T.V.'s and $17,000.00 couches for his comfort. He sets up a web site, or more likely pays to have it done, and then he never goes to the property purchased specifically for his passionate hobby.

Now the operation is a breeding operation, or so we are told, so we expect to find certain things. Certainly a legitmate breeding operation will have records of bloodlines, records of health and shots, kennels, areas to acclimatize puppies to humans, puppy chow and inoculation records, and most importantly a plethora of females of breeding age. After all one or two sires can effectively impregnate dozens of females. Hell it could even be done with straws of semen.

From what I understand these items, excepting a rape stand which would indicate some breeding may have taken place there(or which might have been nothing more than a handy restraint for vicious beasts in general), were generally, even conspicuously, not found. Rather items accompanying fighting operations were. Well this is starting to sound rather fishy to me. From what I gather we had an unususal number of males of fighting age and few females and no puppies that I know of, of course our information is sketchy

Now I know the legal system presupposes his innocence, and allows him the right to remain silent, yet I have never seen an innocent man, or even a guilty one with a palbable concocted story, not try to get out in front of the story and try the matter in the press. Of course maybe I'm again jumping to conclusions. Now this weekend they ran out the cousin to run interference. He was, to my observations, a man of extreme ignorance whose explanations to my mind actually damaged Vick's hopes, the explanations being so outlandish and poorly done and he having exposed his ignorance to the level where it's a certainty he could not tie his own shoe more less run any sort of operation. Let's face it the man was maybe there to feed the animals and scoop poop and I doubt his qualifications to do even that much.

Next we have some people coming forward, at least to authorities if not yet to the press. These are often people of shady associations themselves as would of course be the case in an illegal subculture. Maybe they should be ignored because of their shady past, or maybe their stories will make more sense than the incredible crock Vick has tried to sell about his passionate hobby that costs him hundreds of thousands but in which he has never had any hand whatsoever.

Now the feds are involved. They got involved after they had a chance to carefully evaluate the evidence so far. If this looked like a hummer, a jackpot of stupidity that could ruin careers by coming up false, they could have avoided the whole mess. Instead they are in. Not only that they have taken the matter to a judge who has reviewed their evidence and who has issued a warrant. Now it seems that the warrant was productive as we know some items were removed from the property. Precisely what, and how many can only be speculated upon at this time as the Feds are not trying the matter in the press, a responsible stance.

When I put this together I get a very negative jackpot for Mr. Vick. Yes I get that some can hold on to the salve of his legal presumptions which control only legal proceedings. I would note, however, that there is no legal presumption that prohibits me from thinking or drawing conclusions. I have done so, and I am pretty comfortable with my conclusions. Of course I would, because of my conclusions, never get to be on his jury absent an ability to put my conclusions aside, but I have made my conclusions nonetheless. Michael Vick is pissing down peoples legs and asking them to think it's raining.

 

[BusMan]

A solid, well-reasoned recap, DW. Kudos from a frequent thread lurker.

 

[suchislife]

A solid, well-reasoned recap, DW. Kudos from a frequent thread lurker.

I'm another "thread lurker" who completely agrees. DW. The one fact I can't get out of my mind is how fast he sold the property at the first sign of trouble. A person with nothing to hide would be much more willing to provide answers, not sweep them under the rug. Selling the property seems like a panic move to me. Especially when he sold it for half price to the first buyer. If he wasn't hiding anything I'd think he'd invite them to search the property. Not run away from it. Innocent people don't run.

 

[ookook]

So, who hasa the under and over on 8 game suspension?

 

[Big Score]

So, who hasa the under and over on 8 game suspension?

I'll take the under. I say 4 games.

 

[alg]

LT's take on dog fighting.

Portis should take notes.

It reads more like an endoresment then a critism. He did it and understands it. And that Vick could have been scamed into it.No indignation by a long shot. How common is this 'sport'? Seems like no big deal to these people.

 

[Chaos Commish]

LT's take on dog fighting.

Portis should take notes.

It reads more like an endoresment then a critism. He did it and understands it. And that Vick could have been scamed into it.No indignation by a long shot. How common is this 'sport'? Seems like no big deal to these people.

Agreed. Tomlinson was exposed as a kid like I was. I wasn't surrounded by dogfights that usually ended in death like him though. His take is mild and lacks incredulity, and I understand where he is coming from. My argument way back in the initial thread that got closed was that dogfighting is very common. It is.

 

[fatness]

Michael Vick may or may not have played a role in an apparent dog fighting ring. But Vick, the Atlanta Falcons’ besieged quarterback. has already been indicted in the court of public opinion and by the news media, which increasingly embrace the presumption of guilt as vital to entertainment value.

What seems at play here is a lust, a clamoring, for a high-profile takedown.

There was a similar case a few years ago in Surry County. A man named Benjamin Butts was suspected of running a dog fighting operation. Dogs and training equipment were found on the property, and Poindexter authorized a search of Butts’s property.

Dave Forster, who is covering the Vick story with Linda McNatt for The Virginian-Pilot, said he asked Poindexter if the federal government had showed any interest in the Butts case. “He laughed and said, ‘Are you kidding me?’ ” Forster recalled yesterday in a phone interview.

The Butts case was dismissed by a judge who said the search had violated his rights.

William Rhoden, NY Times

 

[Chaos Commish]

Interesting twist

Local veterinarian Dr. Melinda Merck, one of the nation's top forensic vets, is assisting the prosecution in the investigation of dogfighting at property owned by Falcons quarterback Michael Vick in Surry County, Virginia, she confirmed Monday.

Merck said she was working with the Surry County sheriff's office and Commonwealth attorney Gerald Poindexter. Merck, of Canton, had no knowledge of what was removed from Vick's property last Thursday, when the office of inspector general, U.S. Department of Agriculture executed a warrant — the third at the property.

...

Merck, who founded the Cat Clinic of Roswell in 1990, is considered one of the top animal crime scene investigators in the nation, according the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

...

Merck and Randall Lockwood co-authored an award-winning book, Forensic Investigation of Animal Cruelty: A Guide for Veterinarians and Law Enforcement Professionals.

So the much maligned Poindexter had one of the nation's heavy hitters for animal csi on the job, and Feds have yet to work with her while possibly doing an LAPD to the alleged crime scene. I think there's a ton more to this story than we're discussing in this thread or getting in the media. It's possible Poindexter was far more dangerous to Vick than the feds who were goaded into something they rarely touch by the rabid media, hsus whackos, and the media attenntion of a celebrity sports star.