Felix Jones "needs to touch the ball more" -Jerry Jones (2 Viewers)

[Chunkylover77]

too bad that dulled his skillset to the level of guys like barber and addai.

He had a career day. WTF are you talking about?

He is a bitter Barber owner, or he just dropped Felix last week.

i hate this argument and i hate how much it is perpetuated on this board. its illogical. merely owning a player should not transform ppl into mindless homers. i own plenty of players that i think suck and are deserving of criticism. barber is not one of them fwiw even tho i am sure you wont believe that, since it seems any disagreement is handwaved away by the he owns him or his rival argument.

I hate it too, but its the only logical explanation for what you said.

It really isn't though. Another logical explanation is that Jones has lost some quickness by adding bulk. Don't know why everyone is jumping on this guy. I also don't see any logic in saying that because he averaged 6 ypc that means he is still as explosive as he used to be. Any Cowboy fan should be able to tell that the old Jones would not get run down once he broke free. The only way you used to be able to stop him was when he pulled up from a pulled hammy or some other injury. He looks stronger yes, but he has clearly lost some explosiveness. Could be a good tradeoff if it keeps him on the field for longer.

 

[ROBOPUNTER]

He had a career day. WTF are you talking about?

He is a bitter Barber owner, or he just dropped Felix last week.

i hate this argument and i hate how much it is perpetuated on this board. its illogical. merely owning a player should not transform ppl into mindless homers. i own plenty of players that i think suck and are deserving of criticism. barber is not one of them fwiw even tho i am sure you wont believe that, since it seems any disagreement is handwaved away by the he owns him or his rival argument.

I hate it too, but its the only logical explanation for what you said.

It really isn't though. Another logical explanation is that Jones has lost some quickness by adding bulk. Don't know why everyone is jumping on this guy. I also don't see any logic in saying that because he averaged 6 ypc that means he is still as explosive as he used to be. Any Cowboy fan should be able to tell that the old Jones would not get run down once he broke free. The only way you used to be able to stop him was when he pulled up from a pulled hammy or some other injury. He looks stronger yes, but he has clearly lost some explosiveness. Could be a good tradeoff if it keeps him on the field for longer.

Logic should take a Restraining Order against you people.The guy said he dulled his skillset. Now mabye the guy doesn't know what skillset means, I don't know. Maybe by "skillset" he just means "faster". But Jones just had a career day, with the worth OL Dallas has had in some time. So even if Jones was a bit slower than he was (which can't be confirmed anyway), the important thing is that he has the build and football skills as of today to gain yards to greater degree than his build and football skills in the past.I am not a Jones fan. I don't own Jones. I have no bias here. For those that insist on Jones is not as explosive or fast or something else than he used to be, you are going to have to show me something more than just a long run ( ) as your evidence.

 

[Go deep]

It really isn't though. Another logical explanation is that Jones has lost some quickness by adding bulk. Don't know why everyone is jumping on this guy. I also don't see any logic in saying that because he averaged 6 ypc that means he is still as explosive as he used to be. Any Cowboy fan should be able to tell that the old Jones would not get run down once he broke free. The only way you used to be able to stop him was when he pulled up from a pulled hammy or some other injury. He looks stronger yes, but he has clearly lost some explosiveness. Could be a good tradeoff if it keeps him on the field for longer.

I agree, but neither would the new Felix Jones.

 

[Nightly Mistake]

And please post your roster and scoring system.

I asked a fair question that a lot of Felix owners are probably wondering. His perceived value drastically increased since two weeks ago. Thanks for the wasted post though

I was interested.

 

[texansfan80]

So how are we feeling now about Jones after Jerry said last week he was going to be more involved? First game more involved, 109 yds rushing. Can we expect consistent production from him from here on out?

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Felix Jones flourishes with larger role

October, 10, 2010

By Tim MacMahon

ARLINGTON, Texas -- Is there any question that Felix Jones should be the Cowboys’ lead running back for the foreseeable future?

Jason Garrett finally granted Jerry Jones’ wish Sunday. The Cowboys lost to the Titans, but the running game certainly wasn’t to blame.

Felix Jones rushed for 109 yards on 15 carries. That’s his highest yardage total in a regular-season game, and it matched his most carries.

“I call him Black Dynamite,” Roy Williams said. “I mean, he’s exciting. He can break it at any moment, just like Chris Johnson. Those are two of the exact same kind of backs.”

Marion Barber was a ceremonial starter, with Jones getting in the game on the next play. Barber carried six times for 19 yards.

It appears clear that Jones is the Cowboys’ biggest threat out of the backfield. However, Garrett said he isn’t ready to commit to Jones as the lead horse despite the results against the Titans.

“Game situations dictate how much a guy is going to get the ball,” Garrett said. “[Jones] was in there, got some opportunities and took advantage of them.

“That’s almost a week-to-week type thing. Marion got some shots, too. I thought he ran the ball well. We like our backfield. We like the different guys that are playing.”

Perhaps Garrett is just being coy, as Jerry Jones described the offensive coordinator’s public statements this week that indicated that getting the ball to Felix Jones wasn’t being emphasized any more than it was before the bye week.

It’s either that, or Garrett’s crazy.

 

[steelwind]

"Coach Wade Phillips stated Monday that Felix Jones' role will continue to grow after Jones received a career-high 19 touches in Week 5.

"We need to get Felix the ball more," Phillips said. "We did that (Sunday), and I thought it showed up well. ... It helped our running game." Jones is averaging 5.6 yards per touch compared to Marion Barber's 3.3. Jones is likely to take over as the Cowboys' feature back while Barber is used primarily in short-yardage situations. Consider Jones an RB2 from here on out."

 

[Chunkylover77]

Robopunter discussions go a lot further when you don't group people into "you people" and say we are not logical. There was nothing about my post that wasn't logical. I said he bulked up to possibly be tougher and stay on the field longer and even said it could be a good tradeoff. 9 times out of 10 if you bulk up you are going to lose speed. It is completely logical and it is what happened. He has lost a step and it's obvious when you watch every game that the Cowboys play. I watch every Sunday with the same 10 people every week. Every one of us has said Felix looks slower. That is as scientific as I can get as I don't have access to Cowboys practices so sorry I can't prove it to you.

By the way I am a Jones fan. I don't own him in any leagues and as a Cowboy fan I'm completely biased in his favor. But he is a step slower this year.

 

[rubennbl]

Ughhh... Dropped him this weekend to pick up a Bye Week defense and someone already picked him up.. DOH!! Coulda used him for a nice trade..

 

[Mr. Bojangles]

He has lost a step and it's obvious when you watch every game that the Cowboys play. I watch every Sunday with the same 10 people every week. Every one of us has said Felix looks slower. That is as scientific as I can get as I don't have access to Cowboys practices so sorry I can't prove it to you.

Well there it is. Ten Cowboys fans sitting on their couches have confirmed Jones is slower. End of thread.

 

[Go deep]

Robopunter discussions go a lot further when you don't group people into "you people" and say we are not logical. There was nothing about my post that wasn't logical. I said he bulked up to possibly be tougher and stay on the field longer and even said it could be a good tradeoff. 9 times out of 10 if you bulk up you are going to lose speed. It is completely logical and it is what happened. He has lost a step and it's obvious when you watch every game that the Cowboys play. I watch every Sunday with the same 10 people every week. Every one of us has said Felix looks slower. That is as scientific as I can get as I don't have access to Cowboys practices so sorry I can't prove it to you.By the way I am a Jones fan. I don't own him in any leagues and as a Cowboy fan I'm completely biased in his favor. But he is a step slower this year.

It is not automatic that when a player puts on weight he gets slower. Its not like he put on 30 lbs, it was in the 10 range. If he added he weight by eating better and lifting weights, its possible his speed could have improved. Considering Jones was a guy who bench pressed 225 eight times at the combine, i can say almost certainly he never spent much time in the gym before then. This might have also had something to do with his getting knicked up early in his career. Its possible Jones added 20 lbs of muscle and lost 10 lbs of fat while spenind the offseason in the gym, which would almost certainly not affect his speed, other than maybe getting faster. Not to mention make him more powerful and durable. He certainly looked more powerful yesterday than i ever remember him being.I dont remember exactly what Jones ran at the combine, but i think it was around 4.48, i would bet he still runs in the 4.4 range.

 

[switz]

“That’s almost a week-to-week type thing. Marion got some shots, too. I thought he ran the ball well. We like our backfield. We like the different guys that are playing.”

It’s either that, or Garrett’s crazy.

I'm voting for crazy no other real explanation.

 

[cvnpoka]

Its possible Jones added 20 lbs of muscle and lost 10 lbs of fat while spenind the offseason in the gym

this is pretty much impossible.

 

[switz]

I dont remember exactly what Jones ran at the combine, but i think it was around 4.48, i would bet he still runs in the 4.4 range.

4.47 and it was surprisingly slow to most scouts, there was even talk that it would cause him to drop in the draft.He ran a 4.34, 4.39, and 4.46 in workouts for teams, and his draft stock didn't really slide. I have no doubts he runs in the low 4.4's.Interestingly, Tennessee admitted they had Felix ranked higher than Chris Johnson.

 

[switz]

Its possible Jones added 20 lbs of muscle and lost 10 lbs of fat while spenind the offseason in the gym

this is pretty much impossible.

Care to elaborate? It's definitely possible, given the right nutrition and exercise. I'm wondering why you'd say it's impossible...

 

[Go deep]

Its possible Jones added 20 lbs of muscle and lost 10 lbs of fat while spenind the offseason in the gym

this is pretty much impossible.

No it isnt, i do it every every winter, and im not an NFL RB.

 

[cvnpoka]

Its possible Jones added 20 lbs of muscle and lost 10 lbs of fat while spenind the offseason in the gym

this is pretty much impossible.

Care to elaborate? It's definitely possible, given the right nutrition and exercise. I'm wondering why you'd say it's impossible...

i dont think an offseason is enough time for such a massive change to occur, esp for an already near elite specimen.

 

[cvnpoka]

No it isnt, i do it every every winter, and im not an NFL RB.

it would be easier for an out of shape person to achieve such changes. still, i would question your measurement techniques.

 

[Go deep]

Its possible Jones added 20 lbs of muscle and lost 10 lbs of fat while spenind the offseason in the gym

this is pretty much impossible.

Care to elaborate? It's definitely possible, given the right nutrition and exercise. I'm wondering why you'd say it's impossible...

i dont think an offseason is enough time for such a massive change to occur, esp for an already near elite specimen.

Like i pointed out, he only benched 225 8 times at the combine, he had a TON of room for improvement. An elite 5'10, 210 lb speciman should bench press 225 at least double that.

 

[Go deep]

No it isnt, i do it every every winter, and im not an NFL RB.

it would be easier for an out of shape person to achieve such changes. still, i would question your measurement techniques.

At the end of fall, i weigh around 170, at about 16% BF. By the begining of summer i weigh 180 at about 5% BF. If i can do it, a guy like Felix Jones would have no problem.

 

[switz]

Its possible Jones added 20 lbs of muscle and lost 10 lbs of fat while spenind the offseason in the gym

this is pretty much impossible.

Care to elaborate? It's definitely possible, given the right nutrition and exercise. I'm wondering why you'd say it's impossible...

i dont think an offseason is enough time for such a massive change to occur, esp for an already near elite specimen.

So, is it impossible, or you just dont think it is... Nah, all sarcasm aside, one thing to consider is that Jones was not known for hitting the gym much at Arkansas. Even his combine bench was terrible. If he decided to address some of his weak areas, it's definitely possible to add 20 pounds of muscle and lose 10 pounds of fat over 5 months. You are only talking about 1 pound of muscle a month to add, and half a pound to lose.If the muscle added was upper body strength, it likely wouldn't effect his speed.

 

[cvnpoka]

ya i agree he could make gains. but it seems we disagree on how long it takes to go from near elite, to elite.

 

[Go deep]

Its possible Jones added 20 lbs of muscle and lost 10 lbs of fat while spenind the offseason in the gym

this is pretty much impossible.

Care to elaborate? It's definitely possible, given the right nutrition and exercise. I'm wondering why you'd say it's impossible...

i dont think an offseason is enough time for such a massive change to occur, esp for an already near elite specimen.

So, is it impossible, or you just dont think it is... Nah, all sarcasm aside, one thing to consider is that Jones was not known for hitting the gym much at Arkansas. Even his combine bench was terrible. If he decided to address some of his weak areas, it's definitely possible to add 20 pounds of muscle and lose 10 pounds of fat over 5 months. You are only talking about 1 pound of muscle a month to add, and half a pound to lose.

If the muscle added was upper body strength, it likely wouldn't effect his speed.

If he distibuted it evenly to upper and lower body, its quite possible he could improve his speed.

 

[cvnpoka]

No it isnt, i do it every every winter, and im not an NFL RB.

it would be easier for an out of shape person to achieve such changes. still, i would question your measurement techniques.

At the end of fall, i weigh around 170, at about 16% BF. By the begining of summer i weigh 180 at about 5% BF. If i can do it, a guy like Felix Jones would have no problem.

how are you certain you can do this?

 

[Go deep]

ya i agree he could make gains. but it seems we disagree on how long it takes to go from near elite, to elite.

Im not sure what you are basing this on, but i can assure you it is 100% possible.

 

[Go deep]

No it isnt, i do it every every winter, and im not an NFL RB.

it would be easier for an out of shape person to achieve such changes. still, i would question your measurement techniques.

At the end of fall, i weigh around 170, at about 16% BF. By the begining of summer i weigh 180 at about 5% BF. If i can do it, a guy like Felix Jones would have no problem.

how are you certain you can do this?

I have done it every year for the last 10 years with almost identical results each time.

 

[cvnpoka]

yes i heard you the first 8 times. i am curious on how you measure it.

 

[switz]

yes i heard you the first 8 times. i am curious on how you measure it.

I thought he already said he measures his body fat %, and his weight (LMM)Unless you are into sports fitness, you'd likely be surprised how much you can transform your body in how little time without and synthetic "supplements."

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

No it isnt, i do it every every winter, and im not an NFL RB.

it would be easier for an out of shape person to achieve such changes. still, i would question your measurement techniques.

At the end of fall, i weigh around 170, at about 16% BF. By the begining of summer i weigh 180 at about 5% BF. If i can do it, a guy like Felix Jones would have no problem.

Felix Jones was probably already down around 5% bodyfat. I don't think he had an extra 10 pounds of fat to lose.

 

[cvnpoka]

yes i heard you the first 8 times. i am curious on how you measure it.

I thought he already said he measures his body fat %, and his weight (LMM)Unless you are into sports fitness, you'd likely be surprised how much you can transform your body in how little time without and synthetic "supplements."

how does he measure his body fat? what is the method? i guess i wasnt making my question obv.

 

[Go deep]

yes i heard you the first 8 times. i am curious on how you measure it.

You step on a scale, it will show you how much you weigh. Then you get your body fat taken(with calipers, or a hand held electronic device). After months or dieting and going to the gym, you do the same thing again.In order to figure out how much of your body weight is fat/muscle, multiply your weight by the BF percentage(in decimal form) and that will tell you how much of your weight is body fat. Subtract that number from your weight, and that will tell you how much of your weight is muscle(minus bones/cartilage, hair, nails, etc.)

 

[Go deep]

yes i heard you the first 8 times. i am curious on how you measure it.

I thought he already said he measures his body fat %, and his weight (LMM)Unless you are into sports fitness, you'd likely be surprised how much you can transform your body in how little time without and synthetic "supplements."

how does he measure his body fat? what is the method? i guess i wasnt making my question obv.

Check the post above this one. I have a hand held device, but i also get it done at the gym with calipers. Most gyms will do it for free.

 

[Go deep]

The most encouraging thing for Jones is if that is what happened(Jones losing fat while gaining muscle) not only will he be more powerful, he will be alot more durable and better equipped to handle a full workload...all while being able to maintain his speed.

 

[cvnpoka]

At the end of fall, i weigh around 170, at about 16% BF. By the begining of summer i weigh 180 at about 5% BF

actually you lost 18.2 lbs of body fat while gaining 28.2lbs of lean mass in 5 months time. well, i remain skeptical.

 

[Go deep]

At the end of fall, i weigh around 170, at about 16% BF. By the begining of summer i weigh 180 at about 5% BF

actually you lost 18.2 lbs of body fat while gaining 28.2lbs of lean mass in 5 months time. well, i remain skeptical.

Exactly, so im sure Jones is more than capable of doing just more than half of that.

 

[Chaka]

No it isnt, i do it every every winter, and im not an NFL RB.

it would be easier for an out of shape person to achieve such changes. still, i would question your measurement techniques.

At the end of fall, i weigh around 170, at about 16% BF. By the begining of summer i weigh 180 at about 5% BF. If i can do it, a guy like Felix Jones would have no problem.

Are you using a DEXA scan or hydrodensitometry to measure body fat?Are you an Olympic marathoner? Very few of even the most elite athletes in the world reach 5% body fat. The health risks at that level of BF are significant.

 

[NatronIsMean]

Guiding this conversation off of the gayness of gaining muscle and losing body fat and putting calipers on parts of your body, promising news on Felix.

Great to have Wade come out and say that they are happy with the results and planning to actually increase his involvement.

Sounding like RB2 possibility...

 

[Chaka]

No it isnt, i do it every every winter, and im not an NFL RB.

it would be easier for an out of shape person to achieve such changes. still, i would question your measurement techniques.

At the end of fall, i weigh around 170, at about 16% BF. By the begining of summer i weigh 180 at about 5% BF. If i can do it, a guy like Felix Jones would have no problem.

Felix Jones was probably already down around 5% bodyfat. I don't think he had an extra 10 pounds of fat to lose.

I am surprised to hear that you think this Maurile. 5% is a ridiculous number. Elite male athletes compete between the 6-10% BF range.Yes, at that level 1% makes a big difference.

 

[Chaka]

yes i heard you the first 8 times. i am curious on how you measure it.

You step on a scale, it will show you how much you weigh. Then you get your body fat taken(with calipers, or a hand held electronic device). After months or dieting and going to the gym, you do the same thing again.In order to figure out how much of your body weight is fat/muscle, multiply your weight by the BF percentage(in decimal form) and that will tell you how much of your weight is body fat. Subtract that number from your weight, and that will tell you how much of your weight is muscle(minus bones/cartilage, hair, nails, etc.)

Skinfold techniques (calipers) and bioelectrical impedance techniques aren't exactly consistently accurate.Calipers can be precise over time but not accurate (i.e. they are a good way to measure relative changes in body composition over time but they are not reliable to tell you your actual body composition).Impedance has multiple variables and has around a +/- 4% accuracy.

 

[Chaka]

Sorry. I'll stop my hijack before getting this thread moved to the FFA.

 

[Go deep]

No it isnt, i do it every every winter, and im not an NFL RB.

it would be easier for an out of shape person to achieve such changes. still, i would question your measurement techniques.

At the end of fall, i weigh around 170, at about 16% BF. By the begining of summer i weigh 180 at about 5% BF. If i can do it, a guy like Felix Jones would have no problem.

Are you using a DEXA scan or hydrodensitometry to measure body fat?Are you an Olympic marathoner? Very few of even the most elite athletes in the world reach 5% body fat. The health risks at that level of BF are significant.

Neither, just a trainer with calipers. I also use a hand help body fat analyzer. Both usually give very similar results, within 1%.

I am not an olympic althete, but i do take my weight training.diet pretty seriously. At least 7-8 months of the year.

You are right about it not being healthy once you get to the 5% level. I hit 4.2% last summer(2009), but im usually pretty careful to stay in the 5-6 range.

Sorry for the hijack, im done talking about myself now that i answered his question.

 

[Go deep]

No it isnt, i do it every every winter, and im not an NFL RB.

it would be easier for an out of shape person to achieve such changes. still, i would question your measurement techniques.

At the end of fall, i weigh around 170, at about 16% BF. By the begining of summer i weigh 180 at about 5% BF. If i can do it, a guy like Felix Jones would have no problem.

Felix Jones was probably already down around 5% bodyfat. I don't think he had an extra 10 pounds of fat to lose.

I am surprised to hear that you think this Maurile. 5% is a ridiculous number. Elite male athletes compete between the 6-10% BF range.Yes, at that level 1% makes a big difference.

I would be willing to bet Felix Jones wasnt near 5% BF during the combine. While its possible, guys who are 5'10", 200+ lbs and 5% BF can almost surely bench 225 more than 8 times.Basically what im trying to get at with all this gayness is it appears Felix Jones has finally commited himself to the gym. Which should benefit him in not only strength, but durability, while not really affecting his speed. Those two things usually go hand in hand.

 

[Chaka]

Not sure what JB was trying to get at with this one (Felix The Fat) but, that's a flak jacket...right?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

No it isnt, i do it every every winter, and im not an NFL RB.

it would be easier for an out of shape person to achieve such changes. still, i would question your measurement techniques.

At the end of fall, i weigh around 170, at about 16% BF. By the begining of summer i weigh 180 at about 5% BF. If i can do it, a guy like Felix Jones would have no problem.

Felix Jones was probably already down around 5% bodyfat. I don't think he had an extra 10 pounds of fat to lose.

I am surprised to hear that you think this Maurile. 5% is a ridiculous number. Elite male athletes compete between the 6-10% BF range.Yes, at that level 1% makes a big difference.

Tomlinson has always been at around 5 percent. Dez Bryant is reportedly at 4 percent. I can't find a number for Felix Jones, but I suspect that somewhere around 5%-8% is fairly standard for guys with his speed.Nobody who runs like that has much extra body fat to lose.The idea that he gained muscle is fine. The idea that he did so while also losing body fat is not all that plausible to me, considering his starting point.

 

[switz]

Not sure what JB was trying to get at with this one (Felix The Fat) but, that's a flak jacket...right?

It's a distorted image, Photoshopped to make Felix look squattier...

 

[Go deep]

Tomlinson has always been at around 5 percent. Dez Bryant is reportedly at 4 percent. I can't find a number for Felix Jones, but I suspect that somewhere around 5%-8% is fairly standard for guys with his speed.

Nobody who runs like that has much extra body fat to lose.

He could certainly be in the 12-14 range and still run a 4.47 40.

Also, i bet Tomlinson and Bryant had more bench reps of 225 than Jones, assuming their BF% is what you said during the time of their bench.

 

[Chaka]

Neither, just a trainer with calipers. I also use a hand help body fat analyzer. Both usually give very similar results, within 1%.

If these things are important to you then you should know that 1% is not even close with those two methods. They are both highly dependent on multiple variables and have a relatively high degree of error (+/- 3-5% depending on the tools, calculations, and people using them).DEXA and hydrodensitometry are far and away the gold standard and are most likely to fall in that 1% range.The truth is there is no way to measure body fat with complete accuracy while you are alive.Ugh, I keep hijacking, I guess I can't help myself but health and fitness issues are sort of my shtick over in the FFA. Take a visit over there and ask around.

 

[Go deep]

Not sure what JB was trying to get at with this one (Felix The Fat) but, that's a flak jacket...right?

It's a distorted image, Photoshopped to make Felix look squattier...

I dont know, that belly doesnt looked photo shopped. I am curious to know when that picture was taken though.

 

[Chaka]

Back on topic. Felix is clearly uber talented and explosive enough for government work. Since it seems that he will continue to get a large workload going forward I question if he is really injury prone or is there just a perception that he is?

I know what switz thinks. I'm on the fence, after Fred Taylor strung together 7 years missing only 12 games (not bad for a RB and quite excellent for a RB with his history prior to that) I am very open to the possibility that Felix will do just fine.

 

[Chaka]

Not sure what JB was trying to get at with this one (Felix The Fat) but, that's a flak jacket...right?

It's a distorted image, Photoshopped to make Felix look squattier...

I am wondering if that is the case but I also wonder then what was the point at all? Doesn't seem like something JB would do if someone hadn't made the observation that Felix was looking chunky.Can any staffer verify if the cat parts were the only aspects of that photo that were 'shopped?