Finding common ground (1 Viewer)

[NCCommish]

I think we should start with the fact that most everybody in this country, and I include Donald Trump, operate at on a higher moral plane than the really bad guys of the world: I'm talking about the terrorists, the Communists and Nazis of the past, murderous dictators like Assad, etc. For all of our faults and disagreements, we are the good guys. Almost all of us believe in the elements of our society that make us better than the bad guys: freedom, the rule of law, individual rights, etc. We disagree on how these are applied in each specific situation, but we all agree that they are worthy ideals that separate us from those who don't believe in those ideals. 

Thousand of civilians killed in a drone program gone rogue. 100's of thousands of civilians killed in our war of choice with Iraq. We back the most brutal regimes on earth including Saudi Arabia which is in the middle of prosecuting a genocide,  and for which we are providing the weapons, in Yemen. No terrorist organization can touch us. We kill a buttload of innocents daily. I'm sure they feel better it's the good guys doing it.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Sanders never advocated for government ownership of the means of production. 

Not aloud. But he was a fawning admirer of Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega and the like. And he called himself a socialist.

Connecting dots is not difficult.

I also reject the notion that the means of production must be owned by the federal government for it to be real socialism. An economy can be tightly controlled by the central government to give the effect of socialism, without the government nationalizing most industries. Chavezista Venezuela is a good example of this. And it is every bit the same disaster as an economic model as Eastern Block style Socialism/Communism. 

 

[NCCommish]

As for common ground first we have to establish our principles. Does anyone have any left? Seems like people want to play teams to me. If my guy does it it's cool if yours does he is the ******* child of the anti-Christ, Hitler and Pol Pot. Until we can get past the stupid party bull#### and remember we are supposed to be for America not the Republicans or the Democrats there can be no common ground. Until people of principle stand up and say enough there is nothing to discuss.

 

[NCCommish]

Not aloud. But he was a fawning admirer of Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega and the like. And he called himself a socialist.

Connecting dots is not difficult.

I also reject the notion that the means of production must be owned by the federal government for it to be real socialism. An economy can be tightly controlled by the central government to give the effect of socialism, without the government nationalizing most industries. Chavezista Venezuela is a good example of this. And it is every bit the same disaster as an economic model as Eastern Block style Socialism/Communism. 

No he called himself a democratic socialist as in Sweden not the USSR.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

No he called himself a democratic socialist as in Sweden not the USSR.

Address the rest and I will take that reply seriously.

 

[Henry Ford]

Not aloud. But he was a fawning admirer of Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega and the like. And he called himself a socialist.

Connecting dots is not difficult.

I also reject the notion that the means of production must be owned by the federal government for it to be real socialism. An economy can be tightly controlled by the central government to give the effect of socialism, without the government nationalizing most industries. Chavezista Venezuela is a good example of this. And it is every bit the same disaster as an economic model as Eastern Block style Socialism/Communism. 

Sanders isn't Chavez. Or even close.  I believe he's only slightly left of a true 1912 Progressive.  

 

[NCCommish]

Address the rest and I will take that reply seriously.

I could not possibly care any less than I do what you do or don't take seriously. Not even a little.

 

[NCCommish]

Sanders isn't Chavez. Or even close.  I believe he's only slightly left of a true 1912 Progressive.  

I guess since every policy proposal he made had a majority of Americans in favor the whole country is now Chavez.

 

[Henry Ford]

Address the rest and I will take that reply seriously.

Stop "connecting dots" like a conspiracy theorist and people will address your points. No one has any interest in addressing every degree of separation in the Kevin Bacon game.

As for rejecting the definition of socialism, okay. Sanders didn't support that level of regulation, but if you're going to redefine English words just let us all know what the new language is so we can discuss. 

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

I guess since every policy proposal he made had a majority of Americans in favor the whole country is now Chavez.

Economic populism has so often proven to be a great way to do things. Nothing could go wrong.

 

[NCCommish]

They could probably get jobs on frac crews. Though perhaps working outside and above ground in the fresh air wouldn't agree with them.

Or they could get jobs producing solar panels, advanced batteries and wind turbines. You know the future. High paying, high tech jobs. Not environmental wasteland jobs,.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Stop "connecting dots" like a conspiracy theorist and people will address your points. No one has any interest in addressing every degree of separation in the Kevin Bacon game.

As for rejecting the definition of socialism, okay. Sanders didn't support that level of regulation, but if you're going to redefine English words just let us all know what the new language is so we can discuss. 

Seems rude, but whatever.

We're building bridges now, clearly.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Or they could get jobs producing solar panels, advanced batteries and wind turbines. You know the future. High paying, high tech jobs. Not environmental wasteland jobs,.

Solar panels and wind turbines that go into projects that only make economic sense when they are supported by government subsidies.

That sounds marvelous.

Maybe we should just write them checks instead. 

 

[Henry Ford]

Seems rude, but whatever.

We're building bridges now, clearly.

Building bridges isn't referring to a candidate you don't support as a whacko.  You want to build bridges I'm happy to.

 

[NCCommish]

Solar panels and wind turbines that go into projects that only make economic sense when they are supported by government subsidies.

That sounds marvelous.

Maybe we should just write them checks instead. 

Wrong. Solar now is cheaper per kilowatt than coal. And every form of energy in this country ever has been and is subsidized. All of it. So there's that.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Building bridges isn't referring to a candidate you don't support as a whacko.  You want to build bridges I'm happy to.

He isn't a candidate any more. And he hasn't been since he was defeated in the Democratic primary.

How about this one. I am pro competence in the executive branch.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Solar now is cheaper per kilowatt than coal.

I don't give a #### about coal. Energy from coal is literally a technology from the 1800s, with massive downsides. And that has been painfully obvious for at least 40 years. 

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

I guess since every policy proposal he made had a majority of Americans in favor the whole country is now Chavez.

An economic policy sounding good to the majority isn't really the test of whether it is a good policy. Chavez was democratically elected (at least once or twice before he started cheating). His policies were popular with the masses.

Popular policies often lead to ruin.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I don't give a #### about coal. Energy from coal is literally a technology from the 1800s, with massive downsides. And that has been painfully obvious for at least 40 years. 

Plus we don't have to rescue black-faced dudes from a mine. 

 

[NCCommish]

Why not the easy stuff? We claim to be a Christian nation full of good, generous folks. Well how about we act more Christ like? How about we feed the hungry? Hunger is a major problem in the US. How about we house the homeless? Utah has proved it's cheaper to house and treat the homeless than to jail them. How about we treat the sick and make sure 45000 people a year don't die due to lack of healthcare? How about we reform our prison system so instead of then being hellholes we turn out productive members of society. Oh right we don't have the money. We had 16 trillion for Wall Street but not to feed people. We had 6 trillion to spend on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but no way we could afford universal healthcare. Why doesn't anybody ever ask how are we going to afford those bombs? I'm sure Jesus will understand.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Why not the easy stuff? We claim to be a Christian nation full of good, generous folks. Well how about we act more Christ like? How about we feed the hungry? Hunger is a major problem in the US. How about we house the homeless? Utah has proved it's cheaper to house and treat the homeless than to jail them. How about we treat the sick and make sure 45000 people a year don't die due to lack of healthcare? How abotu we rreform our prison system so instead of then being hellholes we turn out productive members of society. Oh right we don't have the money. We had 16 trillion for Wall Street but not to feed people. We had 6 trillion to spend on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but no way we could afford universal healthcare. Why doesn't anybody ever ask how are we going to afford those bombs? I'm sure Jesus will understand.

Pretty solid rant here

 

[NCCommish]

An economic policy sounding good to the majority isn't really the test of whether it is a good policy. Chavez was democratically elected (at least once or twice before he started cheating). His policies were popular with the masses.

Popular policies often lead to ruin.

Yeah Sweden is a hell hole. I am sure all the polls saying how happy they are are fake news.

 

[Henry Ford]

He isn't a candidate any more. And he hasn't been since he was defeated in the Democratic primary.

How about this one. I am pro competence in the executive branch.

Sure he is.  He's up for re/election next year.  

 

[NCCommish]

Sure he is.  He's up for re/election next year.  

And he is going to win easily. Part of his winning majority is going to be rural conservatives, like every cycle, because they love commies.

 

[NCCommish]

Pretty solid rant here

Coming from someone who is a pretty good ranter himself I take that as a high compliment sir.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Pretty solid rant here

Coming from someone who is a pretty good ranter himself I take that as a high compliment sir.

My only bumper sticker is "OEF VET" but if I got a second, it would be: BORN TO RANT

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Yeah Sweden is a hell hole. I am sure all the polls saying how happy they are are fake news.

The Scandinavian countries are lovely and successful in spite of their massive welfare states, not because of them.

They were among the most economically successful countries in Europe before they drifted towards socialism. The fact that it works reasonably well for them is great, but that doesn't mean it will elsewhere.

 

[NCCommish]

So there you go I've given you four areas where all good god fearing folks should be able to unite. If you have any questions for Jesus I refer you to the Judgement of Nations. And I'll join you on doing any of those despite being a commie atheist. Who's in?

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

So there you go I've given you four areas where all good god fearing folks should be able to unite. If you have any questions for Jesus I refer you to the Judgement of Nations. And I'll join you on doing any of those despite being a commie atheist. Who's in?

I'm with you on spending substantially less on the military and not starting wars for no reason.

 

[NCCommish]

I'm with you on spending substantially less on the military and not starting wars for no reason.

And that's a nice start.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I'm with both of you on Asian chick on Asian chick pr0n.

There, we found some common ground.  /thread

 

[NCCommish]

I'm with both of you on Asian chick on Asian chick pr0n.

There, we found some common ground.  /thread

Sounds like a winning platform to me.

 

[bagger]

We get it.  The left hates everything about Trump.  And the right hates everything about the left.  And the FFA loves to be snarky with gotcha moments, etc.  You know side you usually sit with on most issues.  I am opening up this thread in hopes we can try and find middling ground by people posting something from their side of politics that they disagree with.

Well I found out we both agree on not meddling in the Middle East so that's a start.

Who else likes drafting QBs late?

 

[the rover]

We all hate lawyers, right?

 

[rockaction]

I know we're kidding sround, but I'd say support for the mentally indigent needs support and greater funding.

 

[eoMMan]

Why not the easy stuff? We claim to be a Christian nation full of good, generous folks. Well how about we act more Christ like? How about we feed the hungry? Hunger is a major problem in the US. How about we house the homeless? Utah has proved it's cheaper to house and treat the homeless than to jail them. How about we treat the sick and make sure 45000 people a year don't die due to lack of healthcare? How about we reform our prison system so instead of then being hellholes we turn out productive members of society. Oh right we don't have the money. We had 16 trillion for Wall Street but not to feed people. We had 6 trillion to spend on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but no way we could afford universal healthcare. Why doesn't anybody ever ask how are we going to afford those bombs? I'm sure Jesus will understand.

Plus I think a lot of people enjoy bread, wine, fish, etc.

 

[eoMMan]

We all hate lawyers, right?

All of them except the FFA ones.

 

[AAABatteries]

Beer, Porn, Pizza - that's the list

ETA - and bacon

 

[matuski]

The idea that a single party represents all of my individual positions is funny.

The whole problem is that people identify with a "side".  It is a lazy strategy to label others so you can discredit them.  It is a stupid strategy to label yourself.

Imagine debating issues without being pressured to take the same side as those you have chosen to share a label.  Political suicide as politicians would have to stand on their own merits.. a politicians nightmare.

 

[beavers]

I am confused. For the last 8 years, I witnessed constant attacks toward a president, such as accusations of being Muslim, he's a founder of ISIS, he wasn't a legitimate president because of his false birth certificate etc. Then I then witnessed this very same vitriol toward HRC over an email server and Benghazi. And the obstruction by Congress throughout the last 8 years ... absolutely disgusting.

But yet, one of the biggest conspiracy theorist on this site who believes in Pizza Gate, now wants to find common ground? Absolutely ironic and hilarious.

My common ground with you and others like you is to peacefully coexist. That is it and quite frankly, you and others like you deserve nothing more. I have zero interest finding common ground with you because there is nothing common about us. This is not a time for us to come together as a nation and support a mentally ill, fascist demagogue. This is the time that we people like me will rise up against the president through activism and financial support.

 

[AAABatteries]

The idea that a single party represents all of my individual positions is funny.

The whole problem is that people identify with a "side".  It is a lazy strategy to label others so you can discredit them.  It is a stupid strategy to label yourself.

Imagine debating issues without being pressured to take the same side as those you have chosen to share a label.  Political suicide as politicians would have to stand on their own merits.. a politicians nightmare.

I don't agee with you a lot but I do consider this a huge part of the problem.  There's a ton of people who voted for Trump because he had a "R" by his name.  If you could find the "D" equivalent of Trump I have no doubt that there would also be a ton of people that would vote for that person for no other reason than they are not a "R".  It can be very frustrating for folks that don't have a vested interest in the parties. 

 

[Sabertooth]

I lean left.  I think the left should just lay off the guns.  Just totally change direction.  Agree with the Republicans.  Become the Bill of Rights party.  

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't agee with you a lot but I do consider this a huge part of the problem.  There's a ton of people who voted for Trump because he had a "R" by his name.  If you could find the "D" equivalent of Trump I have no doubt that there would also be a ton of people that would vote for that person for no other reason than they are not a "R".  It can be very frustrating for folks that don't have a vested interest in the parties. 

I agree with this.  An ala carte system would be much much better.  

 

[massraider]

Yeah, where was this thread during the last administration?

 

[BowieMercs]

Yeah, where was this thread during the last administration?

"When they go low, we go high" was short lived

 

[beavers]

"When they go low, we go high" was short lived

HIGH:

Peacefully coexisting

Peaceful protesting

Calling your senator

Making donations to specific causes

Attending townhalls to voice your opinion

vs.

LOW:

He is a Muslim

He wasn't born in the USA

Grab em by the *****

She's the devil. She's a nasty woman

Podesta loves kids

 

[Henry Ford]

I don't agee with you a lot but I do consider this a huge part of the problem.  There's a ton of people who voted for Trump because he had a "R" by his name.  If you could find the "D" equivalent of Trump I have no doubt that there would also be a ton of people that would vote for that person for no other reason than they are not a "R".  It can be very frustrating for folks that don't have a vested interest in the parties. 

Vermin Supreme was the D version.  Didn't come close to being elected. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Vermin Supreme was the D version.  Didn't come close to being elected. 

Is that your nickname for Hillary?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

... The left hates everything about Trump.  And the right hates everything about the left.  ... You know side you usually sit with on most issues.  I am opening up this thread in hopes we can try and find middling ground by people posting something from their side of politics that they disagree with.

If you want to open a dialogue, then open a dialogue.

And don't choose "a side". Determine things based on your values and facts.

Engage people who disagree with you, but for crying out loud read what they say. There's nothing wrong with being a liberal or conservative or even a nationalist. But don't reject facts out of hand and don't base your reaction to things on what 'the right' or 'the left' is doing. Does it matter to you personally if the right/left is acting in a particular way in deciding if some policy is right or wrong?

Yes, I think Gorsuch is a good pick. Yes, I think that some of the working and middle classes in the US have been treated shoddily by both parties and in many ways that is why what has happened has happened to the parties. Yes, I think Trump worked his ### off and earned his win in the midwest and Florida. - None of that changes my prioritization of values, which hold that Trump is inimically bad for this country and democratic institutions I hold dear.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

The right needs to back off abortion. They aren't going to win that one. 

The right needs to support equal rights for all people.

The left needs to lay off the race card about everything. Unfortunately, they use it to get votes but I wonder if that strategy backfired. 

All citizens should have access to healthcare without pre existing conditions but something is terribly wrong with ACA.  The sales job was bull#### about keeping your plan and your doctor.  This will be another political battle that continues that only hurts the people. Congress should be forced to use whatever healthcare plan they approve.

Both sides need to clean up their own party before pointing fingers at other. It's crazy what the left did to sanders to ensure Clinton won the bid. It's crazy the right voted trump over kasich or even Rubio. I have little confidence either side learned from 2016.