Flash in the Pan/Sign of Things to Come (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

Players of note . . .

QB

1 Ben Roethlisberger

2 Jake Delhomme

7 Kyle Boller

12 Chris Simms

RB

1 Larry Johnson

6 Willie Parker

11 DeShaun Foster

12 Cadillac Williams

13 Ricky Williams

14 Tatum Bell

16 Frank Gore

18 Ryan Moats

19 Cedric Houston

22 LaBrandon Toefield

WR

3 Chris Chambers

9 David Givens

15 Mark Clayton

16 Cedrick Wilson

23 Marty Booker

26 Ernest Wilford

30 Reggie Brown

TE

1 Chris Cooley

2 Jerramy Stevens

6 Ben Watson

7 Heath Miller

13 Zachary Hilton

Thoughts? Opinions? Anecdotes?

 

[CalBear]

Players of note . . .QB1 Ben Roethlisberger2 Jake Delhomme 7 Kyle Boller 12 Chris Simms

Roethlisberger could put up usable fantasy numbers; if the Pittsburgh running game struggles, he can easily be a top-10 QB.Delhomme will likely remain streaky; he will put up good numbers at times, and not much at other times.Boller will become a borderline QB1 in 2006.Simms might be a bye week filler in 2006.

RB1 Larry Johnson 6 Willie Parker 11 DeShaun Foster12 Cadillac Williams 13 Ricky Williams14 Tatum Bell 16 Frank Gore 18 Ryan Moats 19 Cedric Houston 22 LaBrandon Toefield

LJ is a stud (big news there).Willie Parker will follow up huge games with zeros.Foster seems pretty brittle, but capable of putting up acceptable numbers when he's healthy.C.Williams could easily be a stud in the making.R.Williams, it will really depend on his situation in 2006. He certainly still has gas in the tank.Bell, it totally depends on the Denver situation. If he's not starting, he'll have two or three more big games, but be pretty much useless from a fantasy perspective.Gore will join Reshard Lee in the annals of FBG lore.Cedric Houston will become a decent backup in New York, worthless in fantasy terms.LaBrandon Toefield will not produce consistently.

WR3 Chris Chambers 9 David Givens 15 Mark Clayton 16 Cedrick Wilson 23 Marty Booker 26 Ernest Wilford30 Reggie Brown

Chambers should be a top-10 WR.Givens, it totally depends where he lands. Don't expect top-10 numbers in any case.Clayton could easily finish as a WR1.Wilson will disappear.Booker will disappear.Wilford might become a WR2.Brown could easily be a WR2.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Nothing to add at the moment, but this thread will be worth revisting come draft time.

 

[Family Matters]

Big Ben is the most interesting player in tis group fantasy wise. It appears that Cower has decided to play to his team's strengths. Will he continue? Well he won the playoffs and Super Bowl doing that so why wouldn't he? Clearly he now knows Ben can get it done. You have to think he will continue to do so. That being said I like Ben to be a top 10 for sure and maybe top 8 for 2006. And you can get him cheap in most leagues.

 

[wannabee]

Thanks, David for starting this thread. Will re-visit as offseason goes on.

 

[Rev]

Chris Cooley was a nice surprise this year, even though we knew before the season that Washington would give him plenty of opportunities. If he can keep up his level of production, he'll be a top 5 TE with some good years ahead of him.

 

[Texasmouth]

QB

1 Ben Roethlisberger- Sign of things to come.

2 Jake Delhomme- As long as Steve Smith stays healthy......

7 Kyle Boller- sign of things to come. He will be better and he will be solid next year.

12 Chris Simms- Flash in the pan. As soon as you put your faith in him, he will let you down

RB

1 Larry Johnson- Sign of things to come. This guy is a stud. Beyond a stud.

6 Willie Parker- He is a good back, not a great back.

11 DeShaun Foster- I have always said if he could stay healthy he would be top ten. Who knows. He is Fred Taylor's cousin in IR.

12 Cadillac Williams- Sign of things to come. He will be a top ten back for a long time, carrying sorry Chris Simms along for the ride.

13 Ricky Williams- depending on the situation, he could be a fantasy machine again.

14 Tatum Bell- Too brittle to ever be a star.

16 Frank Gore- Has the potential to be a monster. The offense is young and has a great coordinator to make him into a star.

18 Ryan Moats- Too bad they gave Westy so much money, I think Moats is the real deal.

19 Cedric Houston- Didnt see enough to make a good opinion.

22 LaBrandon Toefield- Did he even play?

WR

3 Chris Chambers- This guy could lead the league if he just had a decent QB to throw to him

9 David Givens- Seems to be more of a #2 guy than anything in my opinion

15 Mark Clayton- Tough call, could make for a nice combo with Boller maturing

16 Cedrick Wilson- Thought he would do more. Probably a flash in the pan.

23 Marty Booker- See Chris Chambers, Booker still has some life left.

26 Ernest Wilford- Could be a huge star. He struggled once Lefty was out.

30 Reggie Brown- Future star.

TE

1 Chris Cooley- Could be a Tony Gonzales in the makings with Saunders calling the plays.

2 Jerramy Stevens- Stud but dont count on him in a big game.

6 Ben Watson- Super TE, will post monster numbers next year.

7 Heath Miller- Sign of things to come. His numbers will be even better next year.

13 Zachary Hilton- no clue.

 

[SuperJohn96]

13 Ricky Williams

I'm gonna go out on limb with this one.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

13 Ricky Williams

I'm gonna go out on limb with this one.

Good call... the only 'flash in the pan' with Ricky is the lighter as it hits the bowl.

 

[Family Matters]

QB

1 Ben Roethlisberger- Sign of things to come.

2 Jake Delhomme- As long as Steve Smith stays healthy......

7 Kyle Boller- sign of things to come. He will be better and he will be solid next year.

12 Chris Simms- Flash in the pan. As soon as you put your faith in him, he will let you down

RB

1 Larry Johnson- Sign of things to come. This guy is a stud. Beyond a stud.

6 Willie Parker- He is a good back, not a great back.

11 DeShaun Foster- I have always said if he could stay healthy he would be top ten. Who knows. He is Fred Taylor's cousin in IR.

12 Cadillac Williams- Sign of things to come. He will be a top ten back for a long time, carrying sorry Chris Simms along for the ride.

13 Ricky Williams- depending on the situation, he could be busted again.

14 Tatum Bell- Too brittle to ever be a star.

16 Frank Gore- Has the potential to be a monster. The offense is young and has a great coordinator to make him into a star.

18 Ryan Moats- Too bad they gave Westy so much money, I think Moats is the real deal.

19 Cedric Houston- Didnt see enough to make a good opinion.

22 LaBrandon Toefield- Did he even play?

WR

3 Chris Chambers- This guy could lead the league if he just had a decent QB to throw to him

9 David Givens- Seems to be more of a #2 guy than anything in my opinion

15 Mark Clayton- Tough call, could make for a nice combo with Boller maturing

16 Cedrick Wilson- Thought he would do more. Probably a flash in the pan.

23 Marty Booker- See Chris Chambers, Booker still has some life left.

26 Ernest Wilford- Could be a huge star. He struggled once Lefty was out.

30 Reggie Brown- Future star.

TE

1 Chris Cooley- Could be a Tony Gonzales in the makings with Saunders calling the plays.

2 Jerramy Stevens- Stud but dont count on him in a big game.

6 Ben Watson- Super TE, will post monster numbers next year.

7 Heath Miller- Sign of things to come. His numbers will be even better next year.

13 Zachary Hilton- no clue.

I fixed that one for you.

 

[MLBrandow]

Players of note . . .QB1 Ben Roethlisberger2 Jake Delhomme 7 Kyle Boller 12 Chris Simms

Boller will become a borderline QB1 in 2006.

Did I hear this right? Someone else who actually believes in Kyle Boller other than me? We are two of a kind my friend.

 

[Urinal Mint]

Chris Simms all but won his first playoff game. I think the kid is a late bloomer but he can play.

 

[gump]

Chris Simms all but won his first playoff game.  I think the kid is a late bloomer but he can play.

Not only that, he played very well down the stretch in must win games...and he led the team to the division title.

Along the way he showed a lot of growth...from a decision-making standpoint, a game-management standpoint, and a leadership standpoint. He already had the tools.

And his harshest critic is now in his corner...Jon Gruden.

People who say he was a "flash in the pan" didn't pay much attention to him the last 2 months of the season.

On topic, I could very easily see him being a top-15 fantasy QB. Depends a lot on what WR corp he ends up with...

 

[stbugs]

Big Ben is the most interesting player in tis group fantasy wise. It appears that Cower has decided to play to his team's strengths. Will he continue? Well he won the playoffs and Super Bowl doing that so why wouldn't he? Clearly he now knows Ben can get it done. You have to think he will continue to do so. That being said I like Ben to be a top 10 for sure and maybe top 8 for 2006. And you can get him cheap in most leagues.

You did watch the Super Bowl, correct? While Ben had 2 very good playoff games, he had an awful Super Bowl and Pitt had more rushing yards than passing (including ARE's 43 yards).I think Ben will get better, but unless they replace ARE with a stud, I think that Pittsburgh will continue to lean on the running game in the regular season. Cowher has shown in the playoffs that he will lean on the passing game to surprise people, but the NFL playoffs don't mean much to FF folks.

Don't forget that Pittsburgh's best passing year Plaxico had 1300+ yards and ARE had almost 500 yards. That is 1800 yards to make up if Ben is going to have a year like Maddox/Stewart had in 2002 and combined they were still the #12 QB (I took out Kordell's 200 yards rushing to make it a good comparison).

 

[Godsbrother]

Big Ben is the most interesting player in tis group fantasy wise. It appears that Cower has decided to play to his team's strengths. Will he continue? Well he won the playoffs and Super Bowl doing that so why wouldn't he? Clearly he now knows Ben can get it done. You have to think he will continue to do so. That being said I like Ben to be a top 10 for sure and maybe top 8 for 2006. And you can get him cheap in most leagues.

Don't forget that Pittsburgh's best passing year Plaxico had 1300+ yards and ARE had almost 500 yards. That is 1800 yards to make up if Ben is going to have a year like Maddox/Stewart had in 2002 and combined they were still the #12 QB (I took out Kordell's 200 yards rushing to make it a good comparison).

Heath Miller + Cedrick Wilson + another WR they acquire will come very close to Plaxico + ARE.

 

[Texasmouth]

Chris Simms all but won his first playoff game. I think the kid is a late bloomer but he can play.

Not only that, he played very well down the stretch in must win games...and he led the team to the division title.

Along the way he showed a lot of growth...from a decision-making standpoint, a game-management standpoint, and a leadership standpoint. He already had the tools.

And his harshest critic is now in his corner...Jon Gruden.

People who say he was a "flash in the pan" didn't pay much attention to him the last 2 months of the season.

On topic, I could very easily see him being a top-15 fantasy QB. Depends a lot on what WR corp he ends up with...

Not only did I see him play, I saw him play all of his college games as well. Put all the faith in him you want. He will let you down. He is never going to be an elite QB or a top 15 anything. You will see. He didn't play that well down any stretch either, you are not remembering correctly at all. His performances were average at best and only benefitted when the running game was really clicking and he got some lucky lob passes to Galloway.

* He had one game where he ALMOST got to three hundred yards but he didn't. He also had two interceptions that game.

* Week 12-14 he didnt have one touchdown pass.....real impressive.

* He had two games the whole season where he had more TD than INT. One was against power house New Orleans in the last game of the season.

* In five of his starts he didn't even break the 200 yards passing mark. Only one of those games he broke 150 yards passing. Even Quincy Carter was better than that....

* His lone playoff start he had a 56.7% QB rating with two INT and less than 200 yards passing in his only BIG game.

You guys are dreaming about him playing well down the stretch, if anything, he got worse as the season went on. Look up his stats yourself. I am not making this up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6433

 

[BigTex]

Players of note . . .QB1 Ben Roethlisberger2 Jake Delhomme 7 Kyle Boller 12 Chris Simms

I'll be watching Berger King alot closer as I believe he has "IT"

 

[Cookiemonster]

Players of note . . .

QB

1 Ben Roethlisberger-++Real football, O.K. fantasy.

2 Jake Delhomme - Worthy of #1 FF. A little up and down, but I'd take him.

7 Kyle Boller - Didn't see any of his late season heroics, but it sounds O.K. Up to #2 FF from #3.

12 Chris Simms - I've liked him since his rookie pre-season. He'll be solid and should attain top 20 FF. He may break top 10 a few times in his career.

RB

1 Larry Johnson - Not as high on him as everyone else, but I wouldn't hesitate to own him. K.C. line will not stay dominant much longer.

6 Willie Parker - Unless he learns to fight for more yardage, he won't even be the starter in Pitt next year. Has everybody forgotten the #s Staley had pre-injury in 04?

11 DeShaun Foster- I'd be glad to own him, handcuffs come cheap!

12 Cadillac Williams - Stud!

13 Ricky Williams - Dud!

14 Tatum Bell - Should be the starter. Won't be. Not worth much due to hit-n-miss until Anderson goes down.

16 Frank Gore - Great #2 if S.F. does anything to improve OL.

18 Ryan Moats - Doubt it.

19 Cedric Houston - Ditto

22 LaBrandon Toefield - Tritto. Jones can be a stud though.

WR

3 Chris Chambers - If he can do that w/ current QB, he's a top 10 nomination every year.

9 David Givens - Due to leage draft habits, he can be a great value or way too $.

15 Mark Clayton - Forget last year. Fully healed, this guy is a top 15 and may be a top 5 in the future.

16 Cedrick Wilson - Way underrated. FF #3 or 4. Good real #2. He'll put up better #s than El. Look at 2007 to establish his career value.

23 Marty Booker - Uh...

26 Ernest Wilford - True stud! Get him now if you can! Smith is too old and faded badly last year, R.Williams is a career slot - especially when M.Jones gets going.

30 Reggie Brown - I like Philly's young WRs. More than most people. Future top 20 at least. Top 10 at best, but don't count on it.

TE

1 Chris Cooley - I like him, but big one week and not the next. If you don't need concistent #s from your TE, he'll boom more often than bust.

2 Jerramy Stevens - The most concistent TE here. Maybe top 5.

6 Ben Watson - When can you play him? Stud potential, but will not see the field in some games.

7 Heath Miller - Top 10 maybe now, definately in the future. Can disappear at times. See Cooley.

13 Zachary Hilton - ?Who?

Thoughts? Opinions? Anecdotes?

 

[stbugs]

Big Ben is the most interesting player in tis group fantasy wise. It appears that Cower has decided to play to his team's strengths. Will he continue? Well he won the playoffs and Super Bowl doing that so why wouldn't he? Clearly he now knows Ben can get it done. You have to think he will continue to do so. That being said I like Ben to be a top 10 for sure and maybe top 8 for 2006. And you can get him cheap in most leagues.

Don't forget that Pittsburgh's best passing year Plaxico had 1300+ yards and ARE had almost 500 yards. That is 1800 yards to make up if Ben is going to have a year like Maddox/Stewart had in 2002 and combined they were still the #12 QB (I took out Kordell's 200 yards rushing to make it a good comparison).

Heath Miller + Cedrick Wilson + another WR they acquire will come very close to Plaxico + ARE.

Possibly, but not IMHO. In 2002, Plax/ARE had much better numbers than Miller/#2WR (Wilson or another WR - one will put up stats and the other won't).BTW, how was Big Ben #1 over weeks 14-17 with stats like this:

WK TM OPP CMP ATT YD TD INT RSH YD TD FPT

14 PIT CHI 13 20 173 1 0 2 -2 0 12.5 [play-by-play]

15 PIT MIN 10 15 149 0 0 6 7 1 14.1 [play-by-play]

16 PIT CLE 13 20 226 1 0 0 0 0 15.3 [play-by-play]

17 PIT DET 7 16 135 0 2 3 5 1 11.2

These are copied straight from FBGs.

Mr Yudkin, were you counting the playoffs for Big Ben, cause 2 passing TDs and 2 rushing TDs sure doesn't seem like it would be the #1 QB over 4 weeks. Just a quick glance, but Brady had 8 passing TDs and 1 rushing TD and more yards. Something ain't adding up here.

 

[David Yudkin]

Big Ben is the most interesting player in tis group fantasy wise. It appears that Cower has decided to play to his team's strengths. Will he continue? Well he won the playoffs and Super Bowl doing that so why wouldn't he? Clearly he now knows Ben can get it done. You have to think he will continue to do so. That being said I like Ben to be a top 10 for sure and maybe top 8 for 2006. And you can get him cheap in most leagues.

Don't forget that Pittsburgh's best passing year Plaxico had 1300+ yards and ARE had almost 500 yards. That is 1800 yards to make up if Ben is going to have a year like Maddox/Stewart had in 2002 and combined they were still the #12 QB (I took out Kordell's 200 yards rushing to make it a good comparison).

Heath Miller + Cedrick Wilson + another WR they acquire will come very close to Plaxico + ARE.

Possibly, but not IMHO. In 2002, Plax/ARE had much better numbers than Miller/#2WR (Wilson or another WR - one will put up stats and the other won't).BTW, how was Big Ben #1 over weeks 14-17 with stats like this:

WK TM OPP CMP ATT YD TD INT RSH YD TD FPT

14 PIT CHI 13 20 173 1 0 2 -2 0 12.5 [play-by-play]

15 PIT MIN 10 15 149 0 0 6 7 1 14.1 [play-by-play]

16 PIT CLE 13 20 226 1 0 0 0 0 15.3 [play-by-play]

17 PIT DET 7 16 135 0 2 3 5 1 11.2

These are copied straight from FBGs.

Mr Yudkin, were you counting the playoffs for Big Ben, cause 2 passing TDs and 2 rushing TDs sure doesn't seem like it would be the #1 QB over 4 weeks. Just a quick glance, but Brady had 8 passing TDs and 1 rushing TD and more yards. Something ain't adding up here.

According to the Data Dominator, here were the Top 10 QB over Weeks 14-17. I make the assumption that the information is complete and accurate, but you never can tell . . .1 Ben Roethlisberger qb 2005 91 142 1355 9.54 61 9 3 120.95

2 Jake Delhomme qb 2005 116 195 1474 7.56 63 11 7 119.80

3 Tom Brady qb 2005 104 168 1330 7.92 65 12 6 118.50

4 Matt Hasselbeck qb 2005 101 135 1189 8.81 65 12 1 118.25

5 Jake Plummer qb 2005 99 169 1274 7.54 61 5 4 92.60

6 David Garrard qb 2005 78 130 954 7.34 50 2 0 77.80

7 Kyle Boller qb 2005 81 136 944 6.94 48 7 5 71.90

8 Trent Green qb 2005 77 124 1079 8.70 51 4 1 71.65

9 Mark Brunell qb 2005 75 136 827 6.08 37 8 6 70.55

10 Eli Manning qb 2005 90 159 1059 6.66 53 4 8 68.65

 

[stbugs]

Big Ben is the most interesting player in tis group fantasy wise. It appears that Cower has decided to play to his team's strengths. Will he continue? Well he won the playoffs and Super Bowl doing that so why wouldn't he? Clearly he now knows Ben can get it done. You have to think he will continue to do so. That being said I like Ben to be a top 10 for sure and maybe top 8 for 2006. And you can get him cheap in most leagues.

Don't forget that Pittsburgh's best passing year Plaxico had 1300+ yards and ARE had almost 500 yards. That is 1800 yards to make up if Ben is going to have a year like Maddox/Stewart had in 2002 and combined they were still the #12 QB (I took out Kordell's 200 yards rushing to make it a good comparison).

Heath Miller + Cedrick Wilson + another WR they acquire will come very close to Plaxico + ARE.

Possibly, but not IMHO. In 2002, Plax/ARE had much better numbers than Miller/#2WR (Wilson or another WR - one will put up stats and the other won't).BTW, how was Big Ben #1 over weeks 14-17 with stats like this:

WK TM OPP CMP ATT YD TD INT RSH YD TD FPT

14 PIT CHI 13 20 173 1 0 2 -2 0 12.5 [play-by-play]

15 PIT MIN 10 15 149 0 0 6 7 1 14.1 [play-by-play]

16 PIT CLE 13 20 226 1 0 0 0 0 15.3 [play-by-play]

17 PIT DET 7 16 135 0 2 3 5 1 11.2

These are copied straight from FBGs.

Mr Yudkin, were you counting the playoffs for Big Ben, cause 2 passing TDs and 2 rushing TDs sure doesn't seem like it would be the #1 QB over 4 weeks. Just a quick glance, but Brady had 8 passing TDs and 1 rushing TD and more yards. Something ain't adding up here.

According to the Data Dominator, here were the Top 10 QB over Weeks 14-17. I make the assumption that the information is complete and accurate, but you never can tell . . .1 Ben Roethlisberger qb 2005 91 142 1355 9.54 61 9 3 120.95

2 Jake Delhomme qb 2005 116 195 1474 7.56 63 11 7 119.80

3 Tom Brady qb 2005 104 168 1330 7.92 65 12 6 118.50

4 Matt Hasselbeck qb 2005 101 135 1189 8.81 65 12 1 118.25

5 Jake Plummer qb 2005 99 169 1274 7.54 61 5 4 92.60

6 David Garrard qb 2005 78 130 954 7.34 50 2 0 77.80

7 Kyle Boller qb 2005 81 136 944 6.94 48 7 5 71.90

8 Trent Green qb 2005 77 124 1079 8.70 51 4 1 71.65

9 Mark Brunell qb 2005 75 136 827 6.08 37 8 6 70.55

10 Eli Manning qb 2005 90 159 1059 6.66 53 4 8 68.65

I think there is something wrong with that. Check the game logs above, those are straight for your site for weeks 14-17 for Big Ben.I think I know what happened. I think it is taking weeks 14-17 and adding in the playoff games as well. Look at the TD passes. You have Big Ben at 9, Brady at 12, Hasslebeck at 12 and Delhomme at 11. 12 TDs in 4 games is 3 a game. Neither Brady nor Hasslebeck had 4 straight 3 TD games all season, but from weeks 14-19 Brady had 12 and from weeks 14-20 Matt had 12 as well. Big Ben's best stretch of 4 games all season was 7 TDs, but he also had 9 in weeks 14-20.

Oh well, even the best of us make mistakes.

 

[BroadwayG]

Any way to go back a few years and get some historical data and next year performance for these 'late bloomers?'

 

[David Yudkin]

Big Ben is the most interesting player in tis group fantasy wise. It appears that Cower has decided to play to his team's strengths. Will he continue? Well he won the playoffs and Super Bowl doing that so why wouldn't he? Clearly he now knows Ben can get it done. You have to think he will continue to do so. That being said I like Ben to be a top 10 for sure and maybe top 8 for 2006. And you can get him cheap in most leagues.

Don't forget that Pittsburgh's best passing year Plaxico had 1300+ yards and ARE had almost 500 yards. That is 1800 yards to make up if Ben is going to have a year like Maddox/Stewart had in 2002 and combined they were still the #12 QB (I took out Kordell's 200 yards rushing to make it a good comparison).

Heath Miller + Cedrick Wilson + another WR they acquire will come very close to Plaxico + ARE.

Possibly, but not IMHO. In 2002, Plax/ARE had much better numbers than Miller/#2WR (Wilson or another WR - one will put up stats and the other won't).BTW, how was Big Ben #1 over weeks 14-17 with stats like this:

WK TM OPP CMP ATT YD TD INT RSH YD TD FPT

14 PIT CHI 13 20 173 1 0 2 -2 0 12.5 [play-by-play]

15 PIT MIN 10 15 149 0 0 6 7 1 14.1 [play-by-play]

16 PIT CLE 13 20 226 1 0 0 0 0 15.3 [play-by-play]

17 PIT DET 7 16 135 0 2 3 5 1 11.2

These are copied straight from FBGs.

Mr Yudkin, were you counting the playoffs for Big Ben, cause 2 passing TDs and 2 rushing TDs sure doesn't seem like it would be the #1 QB over 4 weeks. Just a quick glance, but Brady had 8 passing TDs and 1 rushing TD and more yards. Something ain't adding up here.

According to the Data Dominator, here were the Top 10 QB over Weeks 14-17. I make the assumption that the information is complete and accurate, but you never can tell . . .1 Ben Roethlisberger qb 2005 91 142 1355 9.54 61 9 3 120.95

2 Jake Delhomme qb 2005 116 195 1474 7.56 63 11 7 119.80

3 Tom Brady qb 2005 104 168 1330 7.92 65 12 6 118.50

4 Matt Hasselbeck qb 2005 101 135 1189 8.81 65 12 1 118.25

5 Jake Plummer qb 2005 99 169 1274 7.54 61 5 4 92.60

6 David Garrard qb 2005 78 130 954 7.34 50 2 0 77.80

7 Kyle Boller qb 2005 81 136 944 6.94 48 7 5 71.90

8 Trent Green qb 2005 77 124 1079 8.70 51 4 1 71.65

9 Mark Brunell qb 2005 75 136 827 6.08 37 8 6 70.55

10 Eli Manning qb 2005 90 159 1059 6.66 53 4 8 68.65

I think there is something wrong with that. Check the game logs above, those are straight for your site for weeks 14-17 for Big Ben.I think I know what happened. I think it is taking weeks 14-17 and adding in the playoff games as well. Look at the TD passes. You have Big Ben at 9, Brady at 12, Hasslebeck at 12 and Delhomme at 11. 12 TDs in 4 games is 3 a game. Neither Brady nor Hasslebeck had 4 straight 3 TD games all season, but from weeks 14-19 Brady had 12 and from weeks 14-20 Matt had 12 as well. Big Ben's best stretch of 4 games all season was 7 TDs, but he also had 9 in weeks 14-20.

Oh well, even the best of us make mistakes.

You're right . . . something is rotten in the State of Denmark. We'll try this again once I get the real info.

 

[gump]

Not only did I see him play, I saw him play all of his college games as well. Put all the faith in him you want. He will let you down. He is never going to be an elite QB or a top 15 anything. You will see.

He didn't play that well down any stretch either, you are not remembering correctly at all. His performances were average at best and only benefitted when the running game was really clicking and he got some lucky lob passes to Galloway.

You guys are dreaming about him playing well down the stretch, if anything, he got worse as the season went on. Look up his stats yourself. I am not making this up.

1) College careers mean nothing now. Move on.2) Those "lob passes" are called the deep ball, something all coaches want their QB to be able to throw. Simms throws one of the best in the NFL.

3) His stats were not impressive down the stretch, but his play was. Anyone who watched the games saw him improve drastically from a QB standpoint. He was essentially on trial for a contract, played well, and won the contract. Goodbye Griese.

Bottom line is if Brad Johnson can throw for 3800 yards and 26 TDs under Jon Gruden, I see no reason Simms can't throw for 3100 yards and 16 TDs...good for 15th in 2005.

 

[wannabee]

Not only did I see him play, I saw him play all of his college games as well. Put all the faith in him you want. He will let you down. He is never going to be an elite QB or a top 15 anything. You will see.

He didn't play that well down any stretch either, you are not remembering correctly at all. His performances were average at best and only benefitted when the running game was really clicking and he got some lucky lob passes to Galloway.

You guys are dreaming about him playing well down the stretch, if anything, he got worse as the season went on. Look up his stats yourself. I am not making this up.

1) College careers mean nothing now. Move on.2) Those "lob passes" are called the deep ball, something all coaches want their QB to be able to throw. Simms throws one of the best in the NFL.

3) His stats were not impressive down the stretch, but his play was. Anyone who watched the games saw him improve drastically from a QB standpoint. He was essentially on trial for a contract, played well, and won the contract. Goodbye Griese.

Bottom line is if Brad Johnson can throw for 3800 yards and 26 TDs under Jon Gruden, I see no reason Simms can't throw for 3100 yards and 16 TDs...good for 15th in 2005.

Gump, I see this as realistic for Simms. I do not think he could go much higher, especially with a strong running game. Simms is what he is. He will manage the game and should be a better NFL QB than a fantasy one. I am not as high on him as most in terms of the NFL-side and winning, but these projections are attainable.

 

[Texasmouth]

Not only did I see him play, I saw him play all of his college games as well. Put all the faith in him you want. He will let you down. He is never going to be an elite QB or a top 15 anything. You will see.

He didn't play that well down any stretch either, you are not remembering correctly at all. His performances were average at best and only benefitted when the running game was really clicking and he got some lucky lob passes to Galloway.

You guys are dreaming about him playing well down the stretch, if anything, he got worse as the season went on. Look up his stats yourself. I am not making this up.

1) College careers mean nothing now. Move on.2) Those "lob passes" are called the deep ball, something all coaches want their QB to be able to throw. Simms throws one of the best in the NFL.

3) His stats were not impressive down the stretch, but his play was. Anyone who watched the games saw him improve drastically from a QB standpoint. He was essentially on trial for a contract, played well, and won the contract. Goodbye Griese.

Bottom line is if Brad Johnson can throw for 3800 yards and 26 TDs under Jon Gruden, I see no reason Simms can't throw for 3100 yards and 16 TDs...good for 15th in 2005.

Gump, I see this as realistic for Simms. I do not think he could go much higher, especially with a strong running game. Simms is what he is. He will manage the game and should be a better NFL QB than a fantasy one. I am not as high on him as most in terms of the NFL-side and winning, but these projections are attainable.

I agree, he is what he is.....an average at best QB who won't win any games for his team, but he will lose some.And to the poster above, there is a big difference between lobbing a ball up for the biggest jumper and throwing a deep ball. Simms does the first.

 

[Family Matters]

Big Ben is the most interesting player in tis group fantasy wise. It appears that Cower has decided to play to his team's strengths. Will he continue? Well he won the playoffs and Super Bowl doing that so why wouldn't he? Clearly he now knows Ben can get it done. You have to think he will continue to do so. That being said I like Ben to be a top 10 for sure and maybe top 8 for 2006. And you can get him cheap in most leagues.

You did watch the Super Bowl, correct? While Ben had 2 very good playoff games, he had an awful Super Bowl and Pitt had more rushing yards than passing (including ARE's 43 yards).I think Ben will get better, but unless they replace ARE with a stud, I think that Pittsburgh will continue to lean on the running game in the regular season. Cowher has shown in the playoffs that he will lean on the passing game to surprise people, but the NFL playoffs don't mean much to FF folks.

Don't forget that Pittsburgh's best passing year Plaxico had 1300+ yards and ARE had almost 500 yards. That is 1800 yards to make up if Ben is going to have a year like Maddox/Stewart had in 2002 and combined they were still the #12 QB (I took out Kordell's 200 yards rushing to make it a good comparison).

I think I saw 3 good playoff games. And you're right, a terrible Super Bowl in so many ways but I won't go there. But I stand by what I said. 8 TD's in 3 games is solid. And clearly the Steelers rode Ben's passing through the playoffs. So I'm not too upset over 1 bad game. I'm more impressed that Cower allowed his team to what they did. Like I said, I can't imagine that he won't continue what got him through the palyoffs so successfully.As for the past, clearly Cowher has shown he isn't living in the past. He has never had someone like Ben before. And I think he's going to ride that horse all the way.

Like I said, top 10 and maybe top 8 and you get him cheap. That's where the value lies. By making this move you can afford to build another part of your team while others are drafting QB's too early.

 

[KTM]

QB

1 Ben Roethlisberger - Will be the most dependable/consistent QB in the league. He's not going to put up those flashy numbers, but he'll get you borderline top 10 numbers every week.

2 Jake Delhomme - The perfect QB in redraft for those who like to sit and wait to take a QB.

7 Kyle Boller - Bye week fill-in, nothing more. Has he taken Prozac yet?

12 Chris Simms - Intriguing dynasty prospect who could pay off for those who've sat on him this long. Gruden should put him to good use.

RB

1 Larry Johnson - His ability for taking hits and continue to move is something people overlook. I think he'll surprise people even if the OLine doesn't stay intact. He's my favorite RB to watch. You can just picture him ticked off at every defender trying to take him down.

6 Willie Parker - Way too incosistent for my tastes. The PIT RBBC will continue.

11 DeShaun Foster - Sounds like he might be staying in CAR but can he string atleast 3 games together without getting nicked up? I'm afraid that they'll draft a pounder who'll split carries with him to keep him fresh.

12 Cadillac Williams - STUD

13 Ricky Williams -

14 Tatum Bell - Change of pace back at best. Shanny was pretty adament about him only getting 10-15 touches a game.

16 Frank Gore - Nice talent but he's so banged up already...Can he really take the full load if given the chance? I don't see him as a full time starter because of his injury history. It's ashame as he seems to be a pretty nice guy.

18 Ryan Moats - Nice handcuff for Westy owners. He's not built for the full time gig, but he's a great fit in the Philly O. I had high hopes for him to be Westy Jr. but the contract extension for Westbrook pretty much killed that.

19 Cedric Houston - Didn't really see enough of him to say much. It'll be interesting to see how the Jets draft comes along.

22 LaBrandon Toefield - Career backup.

WR

3 Chris Chambers - STUD but needs a QB desparately.

9 David Givens - If he stays in NE, he's too streaky for me. If he goes somewhere else, he'd be a nice #2.

15 Mark Clayton - Silky smooth. He'll be good for a very long time in this league.

16 Cedrick Wilson -

23 Marty Booker - Did I see somewhere that he's gonna be released?

26 Ernest Wilford - JAX is going to be very interesting next year. Wilford and Matt Jones could be a nice combo if Jones can continue to improve.

30 Reggie Brown - Finally a Philly WR that holds some promise. I really like his chances to succeed.

TE

1 Chris Cooley - STUD

2 Jerramy Stevens - Good but too streaky for my tastes.

6 Ben Watson - STUD but in the wrong system. NE spreads it out too much for him to do anything dependable.

7 Heath Miller - Great talent but like many of the TE's not in the top 5, he's going to have his ups and downs.

13 Zachary Hilton - Huge target but the situation is up in the air in NO. He could be a nice safety outlet for Leinart (I assume he goes to NO and starts right away).

 

[stbugs]

Big Ben is the most interesting player in tis group fantasy wise. It appears that Cower has decided to play to his team's strengths. Will he continue? Well he won the playoffs and Super Bowl doing that so why wouldn't he? Clearly he now knows Ben can get it done. You have to think he will continue to do so. That being said I like Ben to be a top 10 for sure and maybe top 8 for 2006. And you can get him cheap in most leagues.

You did watch the Super Bowl, correct? While Ben had 2 very good playoff games, he had an awful Super Bowl and Pitt had more rushing yards than passing (including ARE's 43 yards).I think Ben will get better, but unless they replace ARE with a stud, I think that Pittsburgh will continue to lean on the running game in the regular season. Cowher has shown in the playoffs that he will lean on the passing game to surprise people, but the NFL playoffs don't mean much to FF folks.

Don't forget that Pittsburgh's best passing year Plaxico had 1300+ yards and ARE had almost 500 yards. That is 1800 yards to make up if Ben is going to have a year like Maddox/Stewart had in 2002 and combined they were still the #12 QB (I took out Kordell's 200 yards rushing to make it a good comparison).

I think I saw 3 good playoff games. And you're right, a terrible Super Bowl in so many ways but I won't go there. But I stand by what I said. 8 TD's in 3 games is solid. And clearly the Steelers rode Ben's passing through the playoffs. So I'm not too upset over 1 bad game. I'm more impressed that Cower allowed his team to what they did. Like I said, I can't imagine that he won't continue what got him through the palyoffs so successfully.As for the past, clearly Cowher has shown he isn't living in the past. He has never had someone like Ben before. And I think he's going to ride that horse all the way.

Like I said, top 10 and maybe top 8 and you get him cheap. That's where the value lies. By making this move you can afford to build another part of your team while others are drafting QB's too early.

I guess my main issue is that for him to have a top 10 season, Cowher has to go totally against the grain.It isn't like Pittsburgh hasn't gone 15-1 and 9-3 with Ben throwing for 185 ypg and 1.26 TDs per game. Yes, they got to the Super Bowl in large part to his 3 great playoff games, but they also won the Super Bowl inspite of him and went to the AFC Championship last year and lost against a very, very good NE team when Ben played awful in the playoffs.

Anyway, what I am saying is that in order for Ben to be certain of top 10 status he has to play 16 games and second he has to have at least 3590 passing yards and 22 TDs*. That represents a 44% jump in yardage and a 29% jump in TDs from his first 2 years. I expect him to improve, but losing ARE makes me think that he may get the TD numbers, but will not achieve the yardage numbers. I think further down the road he may grow into a more prolific passer, but until his team starts to decline on defense (I was a Tom Brady owner this past year), I don't think he will have enough opportunities to be a good QB1 instead of a good QB2. His name alone will probably make him less cheap than he should be, alah Aikman.

*I took the average of Kerry Collins at 9 and Delhomme at 12 since Vick/Plummer were 9/10 and had more rushing yards, so I thought Collins/Delhomme would provide a better average.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Not only did I see him play, I saw him play all of his college games as well. Put all the faith in him you want. He will let you down. He is never going to be an elite QB or a top 15 anything. You will see.

He didn't play that well down any stretch either, you are not remembering correctly at all. His performances were average at best and only benefitted when the running game was really clicking and he got some lucky lob passes to Galloway.

You guys are dreaming about him playing well down the stretch, if anything, he got worse as the season went on. Look up his stats yourself. I am not making this up.

1) College careers mean nothing now. Move on.2) Those "lob passes" are called the deep ball, something all coaches want their QB to be able to throw. Simms throws one of the best in the NFL.

3) His stats were not impressive down the stretch, but his play was. Anyone who watched the games saw him improve drastically from a QB standpoint. He was essentially on trial for a contract, played well, and won the contract. Goodbye Griese.

Bottom line is if Brad Johnson can throw for 3800 yards and 26 TDs under Jon Gruden, I see no reason Simms can't throw for 3100 yards and 16 TDs...good for 15th in 2005.

Gump, I see this as realistic for Simms. I do not think he could go much higher, especially with a strong running game. Simms is what he is. He will manage the game and should be a better NFL QB than a fantasy one. I am not as high on him as most in terms of the NFL-side and winning, but these projections are attainable.

I agree, he is what he is.....an average at best QB who won't win any games for his team, but he will lose some.And to the poster above, there is a big difference between lobbing a ball up for the biggest jumper and throwing a deep ball. Simms does the first.

Throwing a designed jump ball (where you know you're wr has a size and/or leaping advantage) takes skill. Throwing the deep ball takes skill.

Chris Simms does both well. He throws the deep ball far better now than in college, when he was terrible at it. Too flat. He's thrown some beautiful deep balls this year, some for scores, and some dropped in the end zone (visions of the Holiday Bowl).

I think he did pretty well considering Clayton fell off the edge of the world and the run game was playing out of a hospital ward for half the season.

 

[Family Matters]

Big Ben is the most interesting player in tis group fantasy wise. It appears that Cower has decided to play to his team's strengths. Will he continue? Well he won the playoffs and Super Bowl doing that so why wouldn't he? Clearly he now knows Ben can get it done. You have to think he will continue to do so. That being said I like Ben to be a top 10 for sure and maybe top 8 for 2006. And you can get him cheap in most leagues.

You did watch the Super Bowl, correct? While Ben had 2 very good playoff games, he had an awful Super Bowl and Pitt had more rushing yards than passing (including ARE's 43 yards).I think Ben will get better, but unless they replace ARE with a stud, I think that Pittsburgh will continue to lean on the running game in the regular season. Cowher has shown in the playoffs that he will lean on the passing game to surprise people, but the NFL playoffs don't mean much to FF folks.

Don't forget that Pittsburgh's best passing year Plaxico had 1300+ yards and ARE had almost 500 yards. That is 1800 yards to make up if Ben is going to have a year like Maddox/Stewart had in 2002 and combined they were still the #12 QB (I took out Kordell's 200 yards rushing to make it a good comparison).

I think I saw 3 good playoff games. And you're right, a terrible Super Bowl in so many ways but I won't go there. But I stand by what I said. 8 TD's in 3 games is solid. And clearly the Steelers rode Ben's passing through the playoffs. So I'm not too upset over 1 bad game. I'm more impressed that Cower allowed his team to what they did. Like I said, I can't imagine that he won't continue what got him through the palyoffs so successfully.As for the past, clearly Cowher has shown he isn't living in the past. He has never had someone like Ben before. And I think he's going to ride that horse all the way.

Like I said, top 10 and maybe top 8 and you get him cheap. That's where the value lies. By making this move you can afford to build another part of your team while others are drafting QB's too early.

I guess my main issue is that for him to have a top 10 season, Cowher has to go totally against the grain.It isn't like Pittsburgh hasn't gone 15-1 and 9-3 with Ben throwing for 185 ypg and 1.26 TDs per game. Yes, they got to the Super Bowl in large part to his 3 great playoff games, but they also won the Super Bowl inspite of him and went to the AFC Championship last year and lost against a very, very good NE team when Ben played awful in the playoffs.

Anyway, what I am saying is that in order for Ben to be certain of top 10 status he has to play 16 games and second he has to have at least 3590 passing yards and 22 TDs*. That represents a 44% jump in yardage and a 29% jump in TDs from his first 2 years. I expect him to improve, but losing ARE makes me think that he may get the TD numbers, but will not achieve the yardage numbers. I think further down the road he may grow into a more prolific passer, but until his team starts to decline on defense (I was a Tom Brady owner this past year), I don't think he will have enough opportunities to be a good QB1 instead of a good QB2. His name alone will probably make him less cheap than he should be, alah Aikman.

*I took the average of Kerry Collins at 9 and Delhomme at 12 since Vick/Plummer were 9/10 and had more rushing yards, so I thought Collins/Delhomme would provide a better average.

Sounds like we are not that far apart in what we are saying. So let me clarify a few points with 1 & 2 being the most important:1. Clearly I am assuming that Cower will continue to ride Big Ben. I made that clear.

2. Ben does not need 3590 yards and 22 TD's to be top 10. He can be there on less than that. At least in every league I play in.

3. Referring to his bad playoff games last year is kind of pointless. But in doing so what you have done is shown to me he's improved. And that's what you're looking for in any young QB.

4. You are placing way too much value on Randel El. He isn't that good and he can replaced very easily.

According to FBG's stats, as of week 16 the #8, 9, 10, 11 & 12 QB's were as follows:

8. Vick: 2907 combined yards & 21 TD's.

9. Plummer: 3431 & 20 TD's.

10. Green: 3753 & 16.

11. Delhomme: 3341 & 16.

12. Collins: 3466 & 18.

So clearly I can see Ben out producing these guys and cracking top 8 if Cowher continues to utilize him like he did in the playoffs.

 

[stbugs]

Sounds like we are not that far apart in what we are saying. So let me clarify a few points with 1 & 2 being the most important:

1. Clearly I am assuming that Cower will continue to ride Big Ben. I made that clear.

2. Ben does not need 3590 yards and 22 TD's to be top 10. He can be there on less than that. At least in every league I play in.

3. Referring to his bad playoff games last year is kind of pointless. But in doing so what you have done is shown to me he's improved. And that's what you're looking for in any young QB.

4. You are placing way too much value on Randel El. He isn't that good and he can replaced very easily.

According to FBG's stats, as of week 16 the #8, 9, 10, 11 & 12 QB's were as follows:

8. Vick: 2907 combined yards & 21 TD's.

9. Plummer: 3431 & 20 TD's.

10. Green: 3753 & 16.

11. Delhomme: 3341 & 16.

12. Collins: 3466 & 18.

So clearly I can see Ben out producing these guys and cracking top 8 if Cowher continues to utilize him like he did in the playoffs.

I agree, we aren't that far apart and the funny thing is the difference for QB 4-9 is 15 points and QB 8-13 is only 16 points.A couple things. The 3590/22 was for Collins/Delhomme for 17 weeks (16 games). I understand that most FF folks don't play in week 17, but you need to include it to compare full 16 game stats. FBGs stats include bye weeks, so week 17 is the full regular season. For example, here is the 8-12 for the full regular season (LINK to Stats):

RANK NAME TM AGE EXP CMP ATT YD TD INT RSH YD TD FPT VBD

8 Trent Green KC 35 9 317 507 4014 17 10 35 82 0 267 7

9 Kerry Collins OAK 33 11 302 565 3759 20 12 18 38 1 266 6

10 Michael Vick ATL 25 5 214 387 2412 15 13 102 597 6 262 2

11 Jake Plummer DEN 31 9 277 456 3366 18 7 46 151 2 260 0

12 Jake Delhomme CAR 30 7 262 435 3421 24 16 24 31 1 260 0

Taking Vick out (since he is harder to standardize), you still have 3640 yards and 20 passing TDs/1 rushing TD. While I think the TDs are achievable if Ben improves and Cowher uses him a bit more, I think the yardage is the biggest issue, especially losing ARE, who isn't great but does put up some stats and knows the system well. Pittsburgh was the underdog in the playoffs so Cowher opened up the reigns, but Ben is not going to need to do that every week in the regular season when their competition is worse on average than Cincy/Indy/Denver.

Anwyay, that is enough from me, in the end one extra rushing TD or one extra long TD pass and the QB 13 is QB 8 or QB9 is QB4.