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Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (4 Viewers)

It may surprise you. But nothing you have said on the issue of race or racism is new to me. When I was in law school, I took a course called Critical Legal Studies which approaches the law from the starting position that it reflects the political values from the dominant groups within society. I also took a seminar called Feminism in the Workplace which applied many racial theories to women.
How long ago was that? How much has changed in the world since then? Classes don't teach you how to apply things in the real world. As a matter of fact, when first out of law school you don't even know how to file a case until you are trained. Also, some people seem to be under the impression that people who are lawyers know how to apply law in all areas which is far from the truth. A real estate lawyer may not know the first thing about criminal law, and so on. Law School does not teach a person how to practice law. You are trained in that on the job.
 
It may surprise you. But nothing you have said on the issue of race or racism is new to me. When I was in law school, I took a course called Critical Legal Studies which approaches the law from the starting position that it reflects the political values from the dominant groups within society. I also took a seminar called Feminism in the Workplace which applied many racial theories to women.
How long ago was that? How much has changed in the world since then? Classes don't teach you how to apply things in the real world. As a matter of fact, when first out of law school you don't even know how to file a case until you are trained. Also, some people seem to be under the impression that people who are lawyers know how to apply law in all areas which is far from the truth. A real estate lawyer may not know the first thing about criminal law, and so on. Law School does not teach a person how to practice law. You are trained in that on the job.
Seriously? You are asking how much has changed in the world with respect to race relations? Put it this way, I was in law school after Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton were born.And to give it a real point of reference, the OJ trial occurred while I was in law school and the local news channels came to my school to get our views on the verdict.
 
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So the audio of Zimmerman of him saying black was edited and now he was saying bleeping cold instead of bleeping racial slur. What a mess

 
Police Gave George Zimmerman Voice Stress Test

Apr 6, 2012, REUTERS

George Zimmerman's defense team is growing, suggesting that he's planning for a grand jury indictment and a subsequent criminal trial. Interestingly, his new attorney has begun releasing some previously unknown facts.

Did you know that, on the night of Trayvon Martin's death, Sanford police gave George Zimmerman a voice stress test?

They did, and the results probably contributed to his release.

A voice stress test is like a polygraph, but instead of measuring heart rate and blood pressure, it looks for changes in an individual's voice patterns that are thought to suggest psychological stress. With the help of software, investigators record a suspect answering baseline questions and then compare them to answers about the case.

This technology is not unique to Sanford. The National Institute for Truth Verification, a manufacturer of the technology, claims that over 1,800 local, state and federal law enforcement agencies use their product. They also claim to have trained U.S. Military personnel.

Expert opinion is mixed, but a study commissioned by the Justice Department suggests that a voice stress test is "no better than flipping a coin." For this reason, like its cousin the polygraph, George Zimmerman's voice stress test probably wouldn't be admissible at trial. However, it can still be used in the investigatory phase.

George Zimmerman's voice stress test came out clean, according to attorney Hal Uhrig. If the Sanford Police Department is willing to spend more than $10,000 on the product, then it probably trusts its results. And those results probably corroborated what officers initially saw at the scene.

 
Of course it's not new to you. I was being sarcastic. If it was new to you, you'd have to be a real moron which clearly you aren't. As an aside, if going to law school means you have to take a class on feminism in the workplace, then I'm glad I didn't go.
Both courses were electives. A bunch of my classmates stuck the the "bar review" courses for their electives. I figured we'd get that stuff in the bar review classes so I took electives that that would force me to think. After a year of Con Law, I took another semester that specifically focused on the First Amendment and another on Constitutional Torts--which is civil actions for the deprivation of civil rights under the color of law.
so what type of lawyer are you? criminal, civil or corporate ?
 
Of course it's not new to you. I was being sarcastic. If it was new to you, you'd have to be a real moron which clearly you aren't. As an aside, if going to law school means you have to take a class on feminism in the workplace, then I'm glad I didn't go.
Both courses were electives. A bunch of my classmates stuck the the "bar review" courses for their electives. I figured we'd get that stuff in the bar review classes so I took electives that that would force me to think. After a year of Con Law, I took another semester that specifically focused on the First Amendment and another on Constitutional Torts--which is civil actions for the deprivation of civil rights under the color of law.
so what type of lawyer are you? criminal, civil or corporate ?
I've done all three. But civil litigation is what I've done the most. Since I've been out on my own I focus on small business litigation. Lots of shareholder, partnership, and joint venture disputes with some derivative/receivership litigation.
 
One other thing that article points out- the high number of African-Americans who are paying close attention to this case. That indicates to me that the idea that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have created this anger is a false notion. Those two exploiters (I think that's an apt description) have done nothing to foment this, or build it up. They are merely chance surfers on a huge wave. They didn't create the wave, they have no means to control the wave. Their only hope is to stand on the surfboard on top the wave until it finishes (or until they crash). I think this has to be clearly understood in order to evaluate their activities.
I agree with you, Tim. Jackson and Sharpton, though charlatans, are simply playing on the extreme racial consciousness and partisanship that black people have and white people fail to identify because they themselves do not have that extreme consciousness and partisanship. Several posters here will yell at me for stating that conclusion, but the monolothic support for Obama, the recent statements by Marion Barry, and the news reports like this (among numerous other examples) support that there is a higher degree of racial consciousness and partisanship in the black community than there is the white community.W.E.B Dubois on the point:

"Although the wonderful developments of human history teach that the grosser physical differences of color, hair and bone go but a short way toward explaining the different roles which groups of men have played in Human Progress, yet there are differences--subtle, delicate and elusive, though they may be-- which have silently but definitely separated men into groups. While these subtle forces have generally followed the natural cleavage of common blood, descent and physical peculiarities, they have at other times swept across and ignored these. At all times, however, they have divided human beings into races, which, while they perhaps transcend scientific definition, nevertheless, are clearly defined to the eye of the Historian and Sociologist. If this be true, then the history of the world is the history, not of individuals, but of groups, not of nations, but of races, and he who ignores or seeks to override the race idea in human history ignores and overrides the central thought of all history."

Louis Andrews on that point:

"Adolph Hitler's posthumous revenge on America;" the fear of whites, that by considering race or ethnic differences important or a matter for discussion brands them as budding Hitlerites.

Blacks generally don't have such fear, some because they presume that blacks cannot be racists since they lack power, but the majority because, "Talking about race for people of color...is the natural thing to do...for whites, talking about race is uncomfortable. It's a wild card." as black legal theorist, Professor Lani Guinier, recently remarked.

I suggest that the fear-driven reticence among whites while talking about race is an aberration, and that worldwide, few non-whites suffer this inhibition. It is important to note that this fear controls most discussion, both among whites, and between whites and blacks. As a result, whites are always at a disadvantage in any such black-white discussion. Honesty and lack of fear naturally prevails.

Whites tend to talk around racial issues, denying any special significance with every word. How many of us have overheard restaurant conversation among whites about a racial matter. Doesn't it always end with agreement that, of course, race is not involved, followed by the self congratulation that they are above all that? For some, this comes from an understandable desire to avoid hurt feelings; for others, from a belief that there really is no significance to human differences.

Perhaps we can begin to see a pattern that explains the observed responses and offers a rationale for the differences in behavior. For most blacks, race is personal and a given. For most whites, race is what the other person has and largely irrelevant to everyday affairs. Importantly, the black does not generally see that for the white it is irrelevant, nor can the white see that for the black it is a given.

 
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Of course it's not new to you. I was being sarcastic. If it was new to you, you'd have to be a real moron which clearly you aren't. As an aside, if going to law school means you have to take a class on feminism in the workplace, then I'm glad I didn't go.
Both courses were electives. A bunch of my classmates stuck the the "bar review" courses for their electives. I figured we'd get that stuff in the bar review classes so I took electives that that would force me to think. After a year of Con Law, I took another semester that specifically focused on the First Amendment and another on Constitutional Torts--which is civil actions for the deprivation of civil rights under the color of law.
so what type of lawyer are you? criminal, civil or corporate ?
He's an ambulance chaser.
 
Of course it's not new to you. I was being sarcastic. If it was new to you, you'd have to be a real moron which clearly you aren't. As an aside, if going to law school means you have to take a class on feminism in the workplace, then I'm glad I didn't go.
Both courses were electives. A bunch of my classmates stuck the the "bar review" courses for their electives. I figured we'd get that stuff in the bar review classes so I took electives that that would force me to think. After a year of Con Law, I took another semester that specifically focused on the First Amendment and another on Constitutional Torts--which is civil actions for the deprivation of civil rights under the color of law.
so what type of lawyer are you? criminal, civil or corporate ?
He's an ambulance chaser.
And he has terrible tastes in porn as well...yeah, so refute that COUNSELLOR!!! :P
 
NBC Fires Producer of Misleading Zimmerman Tape

April 6, 2012

NBC News has fired a producer who was involved in the production of a misleading segment about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

The person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters. They also declined to name the fired producer. A spokeswoman for NBC News declined to comment.

The action came in the wake of an internal investigation by NBC News into the production of the segment, which strung together audio clips in such a way that made George Zimmermans shooting of Mr. Martin sound racially motivated.

ARTICLE

Wow, for you guys that were arguing that the edit was just an honest "mistake", you must be outraged that this person got fired for this obvious "mistake" that any of us could have made. :rolleyes:

 
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NBC Fires Producer of Misleading Zimmerman Tape

April 6, 2012

NBC News has fired a producer who was involved in the production of a misleading segment about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

The person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters. They also declined to name the fired producer. A spokeswoman for NBC News declined to comment.

The action came in the wake of an internal investigation by NBC News into the production of the segment, which strung together audio clips in such a way that made George Zimmerman’s shooting of Mr. Martin sound racially motivated.

ARTICLE

Wow, for you guys that were arguing that the edit was just an honest "mistake", you must be outraged that this person got fired for this obvious "mistake" that any of us could have made. :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, still lots of people in a spun up frenzy because of lies which were told early on.
 
Police Gave George Zimmerman Voice Stress Test

Did you know that, on the night of Trayvon Martin's death, Sanford police gave George Zimmerman a voice stress test?
Yep. I posted as much 70 pages ago.
Did they call in a psychic too?
:confused:
It looks like junk science, just like a polygraph.At the very least, it shows they were trying to investigate his claims a bit though.

 
Here is an excerpt from the Tampa Times article regarding gun laws in Florida. This is a slippery slope they tread on because if they arrest Zimmerman and he is found innocent he can then sue the Sanford P.D.

Potential penalties for crossing gun owners also came into play in the Trayvon Martin case, where police opted not to arrest Zimmerman. A police department can be sued if it arrests someone who is later found to be innocent under the stand your ground law.

Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. said in a statement that Florida statutes prohibited police from making a lawful arrest on the night Martin was killed. Bonaparte pointed to the stand your ground law, mentioning that the city could have been "held liable" if Zimmerman was later found innocent.
This is at the heart of the case. Why didn't they arrest him? Oh, they were worried about the Stand Your Ground law.

Oh, really.

Held Liable? To whom? Civil case?

Throughout the country, folks are arrested and held for 24 hours as a matter of course, while cops and prosecutors and judges decide whether to press charges. Routinely, folks are arrsted for Disorderly Conduct. Often, when thing are sorted out, folks are released with no further charges, and often with the initial charge(s) dropped.

In this case, however, the Sanford PD claim to have been duty-bound to honor the statute, at the expense of common sense. Meanwhile, I see police cruisers routinely speeding just to get someplace faster.

The non-arrest is the reason this is a national case. The Sanford PD (possibly at the behest of a DA) made it so.

[*]Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman get into a fight.

[*]Trayvon Martin sees George Zimmerman grab his gun.

[*]Trayvon Martin fears for his life.

[*]Trayvon Martin stands his ground, wrests the pistol from Zimmerman, and shoots Zimmerman dead.

[*]Police question Trayvon Martin.

[*]Trayvon Martin tells police he feared for his life when he saw the gun. It was self-defense.

[*]Police send Trayvon home after questioning, because they were worried about being "held liable" if Martin was later found innocent.

I just don't find that story believable.

 
NBC Fires Producer of Misleading Zimmerman Tape

April 6, 2012

NBC News has fired a producer who was involved in the production of a misleading segment about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

The person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters. They also declined to name the fired producer. A spokeswoman for NBC News declined to comment.

The action came in the wake of an internal investigation by NBC News into the production of the segment, which strung together audio clips in such a way that made George Zimmerman’s shooting of Mr. Martin sound racially motivated.

ARTICLE

Wow, for you guys that were arguing that the edit was just an honest "mistake", you must be outraged that this person got fired for this obvious "mistake" that any of us could have made. :rolleyes:
:thumbup:
 
Trayvon Martin stands his ground, wrests the pistol from Zimmerman, and shoots Zimmerman dead.
The big difference is that he shot him with someone else's gun, not one that he was legally licensed to carry. Plus he's black.
 
I'm not interested in your :bs: legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.
Then why do you keep asking legal questions?
I don't keep asking legal questions. I ask a few pertinent legal questions from time to time, and I appreciate your answers. In this particular instance as to whether or not police would have treated Zimmerman the same way had he been black, your legal opinion has no bearing.
Nor does your speculation.
Of course it doesn't. See my sig.
So you're just pissing in a thread to muck things up? I don't understand why people do thing like this. How about we all strike a deal in this thread. Folks who want to talk about the legal point of view, do it here. Those who want to talk about the race and other ancillary aspects of the case do it in the other thread?Deal? :popcorn:
No deal.I'm not pissing in the thread. I don't believe we can separate the two topics, and any attempt to do takes away from the discussion. Were I a juror at the trial of George Zimmerman, I would eliminate from my mind any speculation about racism of the Sanford police or Mr. Zimmerman or our society in general when it came to determining his legal guilt or innocence, and based on what we know, as I have written now dozens of times, I would acquit him.But I am not a juror. I am posting in an interntet discussion board. I'm free to speculate. It is my FIRM opinion that race is a vital element in this discussion. So I'll continue to bring it up.
I agree. Race played a part in two ways: initial suspicion, and Sanford's handling of the case at the outset.
 
Here is an excerpt from the Tampa Times article regarding gun laws in Florida. This is a slippery slope they tread on because if they arrest Zimmerman and he is found innocent he can then sue the Sanford P.D.Potential penalties for crossing gun owners also came into play in the Trayvon Martin case, where police opted not to arrest Zimmerman. A police department can be sued if it arrests someone who is later found to be innocent under the stand your ground law.Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. said in a statement that Florida statutes prohibited police from making a lawful arrest on the night Martin was killed. Bonaparte pointed to the stand your ground law, mentioning that the city could have been "held liable" if Zimmerman was later found innocent.
This is at the heart of the case. Why didn't they arrest him? Oh, they were worried about the Stand Your Ground law.Oh, really.Held Liable? To whom? Civil case?
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).History.—s. 4, ch. 2005-27.
42 U.S.C. § 1983 Civil action for deprivation of rightsEvery person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer's judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.
 
Wow, for you guys that were arguing that the edit was just an honest "mistake", you must be outraged that this person got fired for this obvious "mistake" that any of us could have made. :rolleyes:
Who argued it was an "honest" mistake?People get fired for honest mistakes all the time.
 
NBC Fires Producer of Misleading Zimmerman Tape

April 6, 2012

NBC News has fired a producer who was involved in the production of a misleading segment about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

The person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters. They also declined to name the fired producer. A spokeswoman for NBC News declined to comment.

The action came in the wake of an internal investigation by NBC News into the production of the segment, which strung together audio clips in such a way that made George Zimmerman’s shooting of Mr. Martin sound racially motivated.

ARTICLE

Wow, for you guys that were arguing that the edit was just an honest "mistake", you must be outraged that this person got fired for this obvious "mistake" that any of us could have made. :rolleyes:
Tim pretty much dismissed this because it was exposed on FoxNews. ;)
 
Whites don't have civil rights. Pretty sure that is the message being sent.
message being sent by who?
Message sent to everyone. Zimmerman has no rights because of the civil rights pecking order. Civil rights violations can only be claimed if lower tier person does something to a higher tier person. It goes something like this.....Blacks, Women, Gays, Hispanics, Muslims, Jews, Asians, Whites. At least that seems how the race-baiting peddlers apply their rhetoric.
 
Whites don't have civil rights. Pretty sure that is the message being sent.
message being sent by who?
Message sent to everyone. Zimmerman has no rights because of the civil rights pecking order. Civil rights violations can only be claimed if lower tier person does something to a higher tier person. It goes something like this.....Blacks, Women, Gays, Hispanics, Muslims, Jews, Asians, Whites. At least that seems how the race-baiting peddlers apply their rhetoric.
you didnt answer my question, who is sending the message that white people do not have civil rigghts (excluding women and jews I guess)? Who are the vague race-baiting peddlers?
 
Whites don't have civil rights. Pretty sure that is the message being sent.
message being sent by who?
Message sent to everyone. Zimmerman has no rights because of the civil rights pecking order. Civil rights violations can only be claimed if lower tier person does something to a higher tier person. It goes something like this.....Blacks, Women, Gays, Hispanics, Muslims, Jews, Asians, Whites. At least that seems how the race-baiting peddlers apply their rhetoric.
Bump the muslims and probably gays ahead of females. I doubt a vegan could get this accomidation My link

Sign at Wegmans draws attention

Posted at: 03/30/2012 4:59 PM | Updated at: 03/30/2012 5:47 PM

By: Ray Levato | WHEC.com

It’s a first for Wegmans in this area. They’ve put up a sign asking customers buying pork or alcohol not to use a particular checkout line when a Muslim teenager is on duty as the cashier.

The sign went up a week ago at their Lyell Avenue store.

Wegmans says they haven’t gotten any in store complaints and Wegmans was very upfront about the cashier. They just wouldn’t allow us in the store to talk with her or customers.

Spokeswoman Jo Natale says the cashier is a teenaged girl who wears a head covering. She told her supervisor she was uncomfortable handling those items because of religious reasons. So the store manager who had experience with this type of situation outside of Rochester decided to put up a small sign whenever the girl was at the checkout counter.

It says, “If your order contains pork or alcohol product, we respectfully ask that you choose another lane.”

Wegmans also says the girl has been coached what to say if customers ask why. People News10NBC spoke with outside the Lyell Avenue Wegmans store said they were okay with it and one even knows Christians who don’t like the idea of serving alcohol.

Bernard Thomas said, “I feel like if they’re going to hire her and she’s got to have the job, why shouldn’t we respect her. Just go to another cashier.”

Darlene Hucko said, “I would respect her beliefs and go to the next line if I had alcohol.

Levato said, “You think that’s okay.”

Hucko said, “I think it is okay.”

Alex Gritsvuta said, “I'm from a Christian background and waiters...the Christian girls that I know have a problem serving alcohol to people in a bar. Not in the bar necessarily, maybe in the restaurant.”

The girl attends school and works part-time. Wegmans characterizes her as happy, someone who likes what she does and a good worker.

 
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Whites don't have civil rights. Pretty sure that is the message being sent.
message being sent by who?
Message sent to everyone. Zimmerman has no rights because of the civil rights pecking order. Civil rights violations can only be claimed if lower tier person does something to a higher tier person. It goes something like this.....Blacks, Women, Gays, Hispanics, Muslims, Jews, Asians, Whites. At least that seems how the race-baiting peddlers apply their rhetoric.
Bump the muslims and probably gays ahead of females. I doubt a vegan could get this accomidation My link

Sign at Wegmans draws attention

Posted at: 03/30/2012 4:59 PM | Updated at: 03/30/2012 5:47 PM

By: Ray Levato | WHEC.com

It’s a first for Wegmans in this area. They’ve put up a sign asking customers buying pork or alcohol not to use a particular checkout line when a Muslim teenager is on duty as the cashier.

The sign went up a week ago at their Lyell Avenue store.

Wegmans says they haven’t gotten any in store complaints and Wegmans was very upfront about the cashier. They just wouldn’t allow us in the store to talk with her or customers.

Spokeswoman Jo Natale says the cashier is a teenaged girl who wears a head covering. She told her supervisor she was uncomfortable handling those items because of religious reasons. So the store manager who had experience with this type of situation outside of Rochester decided to put up a small sign whenever the girl was at the checkout counter.

It says, “If your order contains pork or alcohol product, we respectfully ask that you choose another lane.”

Wegmans also says the girl has been coached what to say if customers ask why. People News10NBC spoke with outside the Lyell Avenue Wegmans store said they were okay with it and one even knows Christians who don’t like the idea of serving alcohol.

Bernard Thomas said, “I feel like if they’re going to hire her and she’s got to have the job, why shouldn’t we respect her. Just go to another cashier.”

Darlene Hucko said, “I would respect her beliefs and go to the next line if I had alcohol.

Levato said, “You think that’s okay.”

Hucko said, “I think it is okay.”

Alex Gritsvuta said, “I'm from a Christian background and waiters...the Christian girls that I know have a problem serving alcohol to people in a bar. Not in the bar necessarily, maybe in the restaurant.”

The girl attends school and works part-time. Wegmans characterizes her as happy, someone who likes what she does and a good worker.
So in your opinion a private business choosing to respect the religious customs of their employee is a violation of white mans civil rights?Aren’t you the dude who is always crying about the persecution of Catholics?

 
Whites don't have civil rights. Pretty sure that is the message being sent.
message being sent by who?
Message sent to everyone. Zimmerman has no rights because of the civil rights pecking order. Civil rights violations can only be claimed if lower tier person does something to a higher tier person. It goes something like this.....Blacks, Women, Gays, Hispanics, Muslims, Jews, Asians, Whites. At least that seems how the race-baiting peddlers apply their rhetoric.
Bump the muslims and probably gays ahead of females. I doubt a vegan could get this accomidation My link

Sign at Wegmans draws attention

Posted at: 03/30/2012 4:59 PM | Updated at: 03/30/2012 5:47 PM

By: Ray Levato | WHEC.com

It’s a first for Wegmans in this area. They’ve put up a sign asking customers buying pork or alcohol not to use a particular checkout line when a Muslim teenager is on duty as the cashier.

The sign went up a week ago at their Lyell Avenue store.

Wegmans says they haven’t gotten any in store complaints and Wegmans was very upfront about the cashier. They just wouldn’t allow us in the store to talk with her or customers.

Spokeswoman Jo Natale says the cashier is a teenaged girl who wears a head covering. She told her supervisor she was uncomfortable handling those items because of religious reasons. So the store manager who had experience with this type of situation outside of Rochester decided to put up a small sign whenever the girl was at the checkout counter.

It says, “If your order contains pork or alcohol product, we respectfully ask that you choose another lane.”

Wegmans also says the girl has been coached what to say if customers ask why. People News10NBC spoke with outside the Lyell Avenue Wegmans store said they were okay with it and one even knows Christians who don’t like the idea of serving alcohol.

Bernard Thomas said, “I feel like if they’re going to hire her and she’s got to have the job, why shouldn’t we respect her. Just go to another cashier.”

Darlene Hucko said, “I would respect her beliefs and go to the next line if I had alcohol.

Levato said, “You think that’s okay.”

Hucko said, “I think it is okay.”

Alex Gritsvuta said, “I'm from a Christian background and waiters...the Christian girls that I know have a problem serving alcohol to people in a bar. Not in the bar necessarily, maybe in the restaurant.”

The girl attends school and works part-time. Wegmans characterizes her as happy, someone who likes what she does and a good worker.
So in your opinion a private business choosing to respect the religious customs of their employee is a violation of white mans civil rights?Aren’t you the dude who is always crying about the persecution of Catholics?
as a survivor of 12 years in parochial schools I oVVn that schtickand the wegmans story is pc run amok

 
NBC Fires Producer of Misleading Zimmerman Tape

April 6, 2012

NBC News has fired a producer who was involved in the production of a misleading segment about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

The person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters. They also declined to name the fired producer. A spokeswoman for NBC News declined to comment.

The action came in the wake of an internal investigation by NBC News into the production of the segment, which strung together audio clips in such a way that made George Zimmerman’s shooting of Mr. Martin sound racially motivated.

ARTICLE

Wow, for you guys that were arguing that the edit was just an honest "mistake", you must be outraged that this person got fired for this obvious "mistake" that any of us could have made. :rolleyes:
Um, no. Depending on the circumstances, there are some on-the-job mistakes that should never be made - and if they are made, then the employee should still lose their job, even if the mistake was an honest one (because it reflected badly on their employer). Example: The ESPN Jeremy Lin headline ***** In The Armour may have been an honest mistake - the guy had used that headline numerous times before. But he should have known better in that instance, so the termination for his "honest mistake" was justified. Similar situation here, this should have been thought out better before the editing decision was made.

 
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Here is an excerpt from the Tampa Times article regarding gun laws in Florida. This is a slippery slope they tread on because if they arrest Zimmerman and he is found innocent he can then sue the Sanford P.D.

Potential penalties for crossing gun owners also came into play in the Trayvon Martin case, where police opted not to arrest Zimmerman. A police department can be sued if it arrests someone who is later found to be innocent under the stand your ground law.

Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. said in a statement that Florida statutes prohibited police from making a lawful arrest on the night Martin was killed. Bonaparte pointed to the stand your ground law, mentioning that the city could have been "held liable" if Zimmerman was later found innocent.
This is at the heart of the case. Why didn't they arrest him? Oh, they were worried about the Stand Your Ground law.

Oh, really.

Held Liable? To whom? Civil case?

Throughout the country, folks are arrested and held for 24 hours as a matter of course, while cops and prosecutors and judges decide whether to press charges. Routinely, folks are arrsted for Disorderly Conduct. Often, when thing are sorted out, folks are released with no further charges, and often with the initial charge(s) dropped.

In this case, however, the Sanford PD claim to have been duty-bound to honor the statute, at the expense of common sense. Meanwhile, I see police cruisers routinely speeding just to get someplace faster.

The non-arrest is the reason this is a national case. The Sanford PD (possibly at the behest of a DA) made it so.

[*]Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman get into a fight.

[*]Trayvon Martin sees George Zimmerman grab his gun.

[*]Trayvon Martin fears for his life.

[*]Trayvon Martin stands his ground, wrests the pistol from Zimmerman, and shoots Zimmerman dead.

[*]Police question Trayvon Martin.

[*]Trayvon Martin tells police he feared for his life when he saw the gun. It was self-defense.

[*]Police send Trayvon home after questioning, because they were worried about being "held liable" if Martin was later found innocent.

I just don't find that story believable.
[*]Well known BLACK neighborhood watch guy calls 911 and says young white punk is acting suspicious

[*]Neighborhood watch guy follows punk around to keep a visual

[*]Punk attacks neighborhood watch guy

[*]Neighborhood watch guy getting pummeled shoots in self defense

[*]Watch guy explains as much to police

[*]Police take him into custody, and take him downtown for questioning

[*]Watch guy is released because there is not enough evidence to convict

 
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I'm not interested in your :bs: legalese discussion which has no bearing whatsoever to what really happened in this case.
Then why do you keep asking legal questions?
I don't keep asking legal questions. I ask a few pertinent legal questions from time to time, and I appreciate your answers. In this particular instance as to whether or not police would have treated Zimmerman the same way had he been black, your legal opinion has no bearing.
Nor does your speculation.
Of course it doesn't. See my sig.
So you're just pissing in a thread to muck things up? I don't understand why people do thing like this. How about we all strike a deal in this thread. Folks who want to talk about the legal point of view, do it here. Those who want to talk about the race and other ancillary aspects of the case do it in the other thread?Deal? :popcorn:
No deal.I'm not pissing in the thread. I don't believe we can separate the two topics, and any attempt to do takes away from the discussion. Were I a juror at the trial of George Zimmerman, I would eliminate from my mind any speculation about racism of the Sanford police or Mr. Zimmerman or our society in general when it came to determining his legal guilt or innocence, and based on what we know, as I have written now dozens of times, I would acquit him.But I am not a juror. I am posting in an interntet discussion board. I'm free to speculate. It is my FIRM opinion that race is a vital element in this discussion. So I'll continue to bring it up.
I agree. Race played a part in two ways: initial suspicion, and Sanford's handling of the case at the outset.
There is no evidence of this.. So this is an unfounded claim..
 
Police Gave George Zimmerman Voice Stress Test

Apr 6, 2012, REUTERS

George Zimmerman's defense team is growing, suggesting that he's planning for a grand jury indictment and a subsequent criminal trial. Interestingly, his new attorney has begun releasing some previously unknown facts.

Did you know that, on the night of Trayvon Martin's death, Sanford police gave George Zimmerman a voice stress test?

They did, and the results probably contributed to his release.

A voice stress test is like a polygraph, but instead of measuring heart rate and blood pressure, it looks for changes in an individual's voice patterns that are thought to suggest psychological stress. With the help of software, investigators record a suspect answering baseline questions and then compare them to answers about the case.

This technology is not unique to Sanford. The National Institute for Truth Verification, a manufacturer of the technology, claims that over 1,800 local, state and federal law enforcement agencies use their product. They also claim to have trained U.S. Military personnel.

Expert opinion is mixed, but a study commissioned by the Justice Department suggests that a voice stress test is "no better than flipping a coin." For this reason, like its cousin the polygraph, George Zimmerman's voice stress test probably wouldn't be admissible at trial. However, it can still be used in the investigatory phase.

George Zimmerman's voice stress test came out clean, according to attorney Hal Uhrig. If the Sanford Police Department is willing to spend more than $10,000 on the product, then it probably trusts its results. And those results probably corroborated what officers initially saw at the scene.
How does being under the influence and/or high affect a voice stress test?
 
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Sanford police looked for every reason to arrest Zimmerman and did not find enough. This outrage is, well, outrageous. Show me some real unfair treatment, or ####. I have a lot less respect for all these claims of unfair treatment seeing the crap African-Americans get spun up on. This is BS. Maybe not to the level of the Duke rape case, but BS nonetheless.

 
Police Gave George Zimmerman Voice Stress Test

Apr 6, 2012, REUTERS

George Zimmerman's defense team is growing, suggesting that he's planning for a grand jury indictment and a subsequent criminal trial. Interestingly, his new attorney has begun releasing some previously unknown facts.

Did you know that, on the night of Trayvon Martin's death, Sanford police gave George Zimmerman a voice stress test?

They did, and the results probably contributed to his release.

A voice stress test is like a polygraph, but instead of measuring heart rate and blood pressure, it looks for changes in an individual's voice patterns that are thought to suggest psychological stress. With the help of software, investigators record a suspect answering baseline questions and then compare them to answers about the case.

This technology is not unique to Sanford. The National Institute for Truth Verification, a manufacturer of the technology, claims that over 1,800 local, state and federal law enforcement agencies use their product. They also claim to have trained U.S. Military personnel.

Expert opinion is mixed, but a study commissioned by the Justice Department suggests that a voice stress test is "no better than flipping a coin." For this reason, like its cousin the polygraph, George Zimmerman's voice stress test probably wouldn't be admissible at trial. However, it can still be used in the investigatory phase.

George Zimmerman's voice stress test came out clean, according to attorney Hal Uhrig. If the Sanford Police Department is willing to spend more than $10,000 on the product, then it probably trusts its results. And those results probably corroborated what officers initially saw at the scene.
How does being under the influence and/or high affect a voice stress test?
How does jumping out of an airplane affect a voice stress test?
 
NBC Fires Producer of Misleading Zimmerman Tape

April 6, 2012

NBC News has fired a producer who was involved in the production of a misleading segment about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

The person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters. They also declined to name the fired producer. A spokeswoman for NBC News declined to comment.

The action came in the wake of an internal investigation by NBC News into the production of the segment, which strung together audio clips in such a way that made George Zimmerman’s shooting of Mr. Martin sound racially motivated.

ARTICLE

Wow, for you guys that were arguing that the edit was just an honest "mistake", you must be outraged that this person got fired for this obvious "mistake" that any of us could have made. :rolleyes:
:confused: When i said mistake i didnt mean accident. I meant something that should not have been done. This person deserved to be fired. Let me know when fox fires producers for using blatantly false or misleading stock footage.

 
NBC Fires Producer of Misleading Zimmerman Tape

April 6, 2012

NBC News has fired a producer who was involved in the production of a misleading segment about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

The person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters. They also declined to name the fired producer. A spokeswoman for NBC News declined to comment.

The action came in the wake of an internal investigation by NBC News into the production of the segment, which strung together audio clips in such a way that made George Zimmerman’s shooting of Mr. Martin sound racially motivated.

ARTICLE

Wow, for you guys that were arguing that the edit was just an honest "mistake", you must be outraged that this person got fired for this obvious "mistake" that any of us could have made. :rolleyes:
:confused: When i said mistake i didnt mean accident. I meant something that should not have been done. This person deserved to be fired. Let me know when fox fires producers for using blatantly false or misleading stock footage.
[timmy]That's just TV Journalism 101[/timmy]
 
Sanford police looked for every reason to arrest Zimmerman and did not find enough. This outrage is, well, outrageous. Show me some real unfair treatment, or ####. I have a lot less respect for all these claims of unfair treatment seeing the crap African-Americans get spun up on. This is BS. Maybe not to the level of the Duke rape case, but BS nonetheless.
link?
 
I'm trying to remember something. OJ's grand jury did not indict him. The judge ruled the jury was biased due to the media coverage or something. So OJ was charged some other way. Anyone remember that? I could be making this up. I just woke up thinking about this. I think Zimmerman could be no billed, ham sandwich and all.

 
I'm trying to remember something. OJ's grand jury did not indict him. The judge ruled the jury was biased due to the media coverage or something. So OJ was charged some other way. Anyone remember that? I could be making this up. I just woke up thinking about this. I think Zimmerman could be no billed, ham sandwich and all.
IIRC the grand jury for OJ was dismissed (before they made any recommendation) due to excessive media coverage.I don't believe a grand jury is necessary to charge someone and bring them to trial.
 
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NBC Fires Producer of Misleading Zimmerman Tape

April 6, 2012

NBC News has fired a producer who was involved in the production of a misleading segment about the Trayvon Martin case in Florida.

The person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters. They also declined to name the fired producer. A spokeswoman for NBC News declined to comment.

The action came in the wake of an internal investigation by NBC News into the production of the segment, which strung together audio clips in such a way that made George Zimmerman’s shooting of Mr. Martin sound racially motivated.

ARTICLE

Wow, for you guys that were arguing that the edit was just an honest "mistake", you must be outraged that this person got fired for this obvious "mistake" that any of us could have made. :rolleyes:
:confused: When i said mistake i didnt mean accident. I meant something that should not have been done. This person deserved to be fired. Let me know when fox fires producers for using blatantly false or misleading stock footage.
[timmy]That's just TV Journalism 101[/timmy]
:lmao:
 
If the local authorites either fail to indict Zimmerman or are unable to secure a conviction due to the Stand Your Ground law, the fact that the federal authorities are also investigating this matter means he could be charged with a violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act or the 1969 Federal Hate Crlmes Law. This is the way that ultimately, the two police officers who assaulted Rodney King went to prison. If Zimmerman is indicted for either of these acts, it's my understanding that Stand Your Ground will afford him no protection whatsoever, as it is a state law.

 
I'm trying to remember something. OJ's grand jury did not indict him. The judge ruled the jury was biased due to the media coverage or something. So OJ was charged some other way. Anyone remember that? I could be making this up. I just woke up thinking about this. I think Zimmerman could be no billed, ham sandwich and all.
IIRC the grand jury for OJ was dismissed (before they made any recommendation) due to excessive media coverage.I don't believe a grand jury is necessary to charge someone and bring them to trial.
So far they're unwilling to charge Zimmerman. So if the grand jury is no billed or dismissed like the OJ precedent, which sure seems worth arguing, would the reason preventing him being charged suddenly change? The different laws in the two states could literally create a situation where Zimmerman walks away uncharged without a trial, ever. No? Also, many seem to think this grand jury is going to happen fast. Some grand juries sit for months on end. This could be a 500 page thread. :banned:
 
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If the local authorites either fail to indict Zimmerman or are unable to secure a conviction due to the Stand Your Ground law, the fact that the federal authorities are also investigating this matter means he could be charged with a violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act or the 1969 Federal Hate Crlmes Law. This is the way that ultimately, the two police officers who assaulted Rodney King went to prison. If Zimmerman is indicted for either of these acts, it's my understanding that Stand Your Ground will afford him no protection whatsoever, as it is a state law.
The feds got nothin'.
 
If the local authorites either fail to indict Zimmerman or are unable to secure a conviction due to the Stand Your Ground law, the fact that the federal authorities are also investigating this matter means he could be charged with a violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act or the 1969 Federal Hate Crlmes Law. This is the way that ultimately, the two police officers who assaulted Rodney King went to prison. If Zimmerman is indicted for either of these acts, it's my understanding that Stand Your Ground will afford him no protection whatsoever, as it is a state law.
The feds got nothin'.
You don't know that. Also, they may not need anything beyond the basic facts of the case as we now know them. Armed Latino gets in confrontation with unarmed black youth. The black youth is shot dead. That may be enough for a federal indictment and trial.
 

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