Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[Carolina Hustler]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

If we are to believe Martin's girlfriend statements from her phone call with Martin during this time period, it was Martin who spoke first to Zimmerman, saying 'Why are you following me?'. Martin engaged Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Yeah, asking someone who's been following you for a while is engaging the encounter.

'for a while'



How long was this 'chase' going on?

Not sure on the timeline, it's in here a lot I'm sure. But long enough for Martin to be worried about it, try to ditch Zimmerman and get found again.

There it is again - how do you know it was Zimmerman who found Martin again or it was Martin who found Zimmerman?

Are you trying to deny the fact that Zimmerman was trailing/stalking/following Martin even after the 911 operator said they didn't need him to?

You have any proof that Zimm did follow after the phone call?

 

[greenroom]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

If we are to believe Martin's girlfriend statements from her phone call with Martin during this time period, it was Martin who spoke first to Zimmerman, saying 'Why are you following me?'. Martin engaged Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Yeah, asking someone who's been following you for a while is engaging the encounter.

'for a while'



How long was this 'chase' going on?

Not sure on the timeline, it's in here a lot I'm sure. But long enough for Martin to be worried about it, try to ditch Zimmerman and get found again.

There it is again - how do you know it was Zimmerman who found Martin again or it was Martin who found Zimmerman?

Are you trying to deny the fact that Zimmerman was trailing/stalking/following Martin even after the 911 operator said they didn't need him to?

Again - don't let what's known or not known get in the way of you making your point. You have ZERO way of knowing whether Zimmerman was still looking for Martin after the police dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow him. Zero.

Yes we know that is a fact, because he got out of his car. He even admits that he was following him. It is not to be disputed. If Zimmerman had listened to the police dispatcher we are not having this discussion and that 17 year old kid is not dead.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

Zimmerman didn't claim he was attacked from behind, he said Trayvon approached him from behind, and after the exchange of some words, Zimmerman went for his phone to call the police again (that is the story as per a news source tells it) and Trayvon punched him..Can you provide a link showing that Zimmerman says he was attacked from behind?

And it is illogical for someone to attack another person for little to no reason whatsoever, but it happens all the time. I've witnessed it more times than I can remember. Some people just like to hurt others... If you've never seen this, I'd say you've lived a very sheltered life..

Zimmerman sure seems like that type of guy.

no clue what you're insinuating here

Think about it hard, you'll get it.

 

[Mark Davis]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

If we are to believe Martin's girlfriend statements from her phone call with Martin during this time period, it was Martin who spoke first to Zimmerman, saying 'Why are you following me?'. Martin engaged Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Yeah, asking someone who's been following you for a while is engaging the encounter.

'for a while'



How long was this 'chase' going on?

Not sure on the timeline, it's in here a lot I'm sure. But long enough for Martin to be worried about it, try to ditch Zimmerman and get found again.

There it is again - how do you know it was Zimmerman who found Martin again or it was Martin who found Zimmerman?

Are you trying to deny the fact that Zimmerman was trailing/stalking/following Martin even after the 911 operator said they didn't need him to?

Again - don't let what's known or not known get in the way of you making your point. You have ZERO way of knowing whether Zimmerman was still looking for Martin after the police dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow him. Zero.

Yes we know that is a fact, because he got out of his car. He even admits that he was following him. It is not to be disputed. If Zimmerman had listened to the police dispatcher we are not having this discussion and that 17 year old kid is not dead.

That is not true. It is a fact Zimmerman got out of his car and began to follow Martin. At some point along the way the dispatcher advised Zimmerman not to follow Martin, to which he replied "ok". Those are facts. What none of us know is did he then stop pursuing Martin as he claims or did he keep going. I don't know and the only person who does is George Zimmerman.

 

[Witz]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

If we are to believe Martin's girlfriend statements from her phone call with Martin during this time period, it was Martin who spoke first to Zimmerman, saying 'Why are you following me?'. Martin engaged Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Yeah, asking someone who's been following you for a while is engaging the encounter.

'for a while'



How long was this 'chase' going on?

Not sure on the timeline, it's in here a lot I'm sure. But long enough for Martin to be worried about it, try to ditch Zimmerman and get found again.

There it is again - how do you know it was Zimmerman who found Martin again or it was Martin who found Zimmerman?

Are you trying to deny the fact that Zimmerman was trailing/stalking/following Martin even after the 911 operator said they didn't need him to?

Again - don't let what's known or not known get in the way of you making your point. You have ZERO way of knowing whether Zimmerman was still looking for Martin after the police dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow him. Zero.

Yes we know that is a fact, because he got out of his car. He even admits that he was following him. It is not to be disputed. If Zimmerman had listened to the police dispatcher we are not having this discussion and that 17 year old kid is not dead.

He was following him - No disputeGotten out of the car while on with the police dispatcher - No dispute

Zimmerman disobeyed the dispatcher and continued to follow him - disputed

No one else has been able to but maybe you can provide a link or proof that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin

 

[Carolina Hustler]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

If we are to believe Martin's girlfriend statements from her phone call with Martin during this time period, it was Martin who spoke first to Zimmerman, saying 'Why are you following me?'. Martin engaged Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Yeah, asking someone who's been following you for a while is engaging the encounter.

'for a while'



How long was this 'chase' going on?

Not sure on the timeline, it's in here a lot I'm sure. But long enough for Martin to be worried about it, try to ditch Zimmerman and get found again.

There it is again - how do you know it was Zimmerman who found Martin again or it was Martin who found Zimmerman?

Are you trying to deny the fact that Zimmerman was trailing/stalking/following Martin even after the 911 operator said they didn't need him to?

Again - don't let what's known or not known get in the way of you making your point. You have ZERO way of knowing whether Zimmerman was still looking for Martin after the police dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow him. Zero.

Yes we know that is a fact, because he got out of his car. He even admits that he was following him. It is not to be disputed. If Zimmerman had listened to the police dispatcher we are not having this discussion and that 17 year old kid is not dead.

No we don't..Please shed some light.. How do you know Zimmerman continued to follow after the dispatchers statement?

 

[mad sweeney]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

If we are to believe Martin's girlfriend statements from her phone call with Martin during this time period, it was Martin who spoke first to Zimmerman, saying 'Why are you following me?'. Martin engaged Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Yeah, asking someone who's been following you for a while is engaging the encounter.

'for a while'



How long was this 'chase' going on?

Not sure on the timeline, it's in here a lot I'm sure. But long enough for Martin to be worried about it, try to ditch Zimmerman and get found again.

There it is again - how do you know it was Zimmerman who found Martin again or it was Martin who found Zimmerman?

Are you trying to deny the fact that Zimmerman was trailing/stalking/following Martin even after the 911 operator said they didn't need him to?

Again - don't let what's known or not known get in the way of you making your point. You have ZERO way of knowing whether Zimmerman was still looking for Martin after the police dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow him. Zero.

So why are you making any points if it's not known?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

It is silly of the police to speculate that this could have been prevented had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle. Why not speculate that this could have been prevented had Martin not doubled back to confront Zimmerman and start kicking his ###? There are lots of circumstances that could have prevented the situation from occurring. The hard facts seem to support Zimmerman's version.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/5/18/zimmerman_evidence.html

SANFORD --

"Avoidable" -- that's how some investigators described the deadly encounter between George Zimmerman and 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

After Thursday's release of new documents, photos and other pieces of evidence in the case against Zimmerman, lawyers on both sides have spoken about Florida state prosecutors' findings.

The newly released evidence includes nearly 200 pages of documents, interviews with witnesses and Zimmerman's father, and some intense photos of blood on Zimmerman's head and face shortly after the shooting.

The officers who first investigated the shooting scene said it might not have happened if Zimmerman would have stayed in his car, waited for police and identified himself as a concerned citizen.

But Friday morning, Zimmerman's lawyer, Mark O'Mara, reacted to police statements saying the situation could have been avoided.

"I understand the law enforcement perceptive that this was avoidable -- and quite honesty, in every life event or experience, we can go back to one of the premises and say had it not happened, had he not been going to the target store, had Trayvon Martin not been in the neighborhood had he not gotten out of his car," O'Mara told NBC's "Today" show Friday. "We have to deal with what did happen, and explain that properly and in a courtroom."

There were no clear witness statements among the evidence released Thursday about who started the scuffle between Zimmerman and Martin.

What we do know is that there were just 8½ minutes between the time George Zimmerman first dialed 911 and the moment the fatal shot was fired.

The reports also indicated Martin had traces of THC in his system, a main component in marijuana.

But Benjamin Crump, the Martin family's lawyer who appeared Thursday on CNN's "Piers Morgan Tonight," said that didn't matter.

"What's really relevant is the fact there was no toxicology report done on George Zimmerman," said Crump. "We don't know what else was in his system with the prescribed medicines he was on, to have him get out of his car in the rain and profile, pursue and confront Trayvon Martin, and then kill Trayvon Martin in cold blood, even though he was unarmed. So the trace amounts of marijuana is irrelevant."

According to forensics reports, Zimmerman's DNA was found on the gun, except for the trigger. Another person's DNA was also found on the gun, but experts said could not immediately identify whose it was.

Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to charges of second-degree murder for Martin's death. His whereabouts have been kept secret after he bonded out of jail in April.

This wasnt like treyvon caught a stray bullitt walking down the street,this was the direct result of a bad decision by zimmerman.

Trayvons decisions play a part as well.

going to a store to buy something shouldnt cost you your life...no matter what

Punching someone in the face and then climbing on top of them, smacking their head against the ground is more likely to cost you your life then getting out of your car because you're in the neighborhood watch program and your trying to look out for your neighbors..

You mean, making sure a stalker is unconscious before you walk away from him? Sorry, if that was me, I'd pound the guy til I was sure he couldn't get up and come after me. That's what all you guys seem to think shouldn't matter. Zimmerman is an armed man stalking a kid, but the kid can't defend himself and make sure he's safe before he lets up.

So in your world you are allowed to punch someone until he is unconscious just because you think he is following you. Got it.

Because I think he's following me? There was no doubt about it, and he was confrontational with "What are you doing here" instead of identifying himself first. Plus, if you believe the gf, Zimmerman may have made the first contact. Yeah, if someone is stalking me, is confrontational and it gets physical, I'm knocking him out so he can't do something crazy, like pull a gun on me.

Well then guess what Sweeney? You're dead. You thought he was a smaller guy so you sucker punched him in the nose and tried to knock him out. But he was packing, got the gun out and shot you. You're dead. Good decision.

 

[mad sweeney]

Look above. It's absurd to say that Martin speaking first "started" the encounter when he clearly tried to ditch Zimmerman but Z found him again.

Even with Zimmerman following Martin in the development (where he lived), it was Martin who engaged with Zimmerman first (unless of course you don't believe Martin's GF).

Martin spoke first to ask a guy who's been following him why he was following him. Yeah, that's starting it all right!eta: and if you further believe the gf, Zimmerman made first physical contact.

Yea, he was so afraid for his life that he decided to start a conversation..

Demanding to know why you're being followed is not "starting a conversation".

 

[Charlie Frown]

It is silly of the police to speculate that this could have been prevented had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle. Why not speculate that this could have been prevented had Martin not doubled back to confront Zimmerman and start kicking his ###? There are lots of circumstances that could have prevented the situation from occurring. The hard facts seem to support Zimmerman's version.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/5/18/zimmerman_evidence.html

SANFORD --

"Avoidable" -- that's how some investigators described the deadly encounter between George Zimmerman and 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

After Thursday's release of new documents, photos and other pieces of evidence in the case against Zimmerman, lawyers on both sides have spoken about Florida state prosecutors' findings.

The newly released evidence includes nearly 200 pages of documents, interviews with witnesses and Zimmerman's father, and some intense photos of blood on Zimmerman's head and face shortly after the shooting.

The officers who first investigated the shooting scene said it might not have happened if Zimmerman would have stayed in his car, waited for police and identified himself as a concerned citizen.

But Friday morning, Zimmerman's lawyer, Mark O'Mara, reacted to police statements saying the situation could have been avoided.

"I understand the law enforcement perceptive that this was avoidable -- and quite honesty, in every life event or experience, we can go back to one of the premises and say had it not happened, had he not been going to the target store, had Trayvon Martin not been in the neighborhood had he not gotten out of his car," O'Mara told NBC's "Today" show Friday. "We have to deal with what did happen, and explain that properly and in a courtroom."

There were no clear witness statements among the evidence released Thursday about who started the scuffle between Zimmerman and Martin.

What we do know is that there were just 8½ minutes between the time George Zimmerman first dialed 911 and the moment the fatal shot was fired.

The reports also indicated Martin had traces of THC in his system, a main component in marijuana.

But Benjamin Crump, the Martin family's lawyer who appeared Thursday on CNN's "Piers Morgan Tonight," said that didn't matter.

"What's really relevant is the fact there was no toxicology report done on George Zimmerman," said Crump. "We don't know what else was in his system with the prescribed medicines he was on, to have him get out of his car in the rain and profile, pursue and confront Trayvon Martin, and then kill Trayvon Martin in cold blood, even though he was unarmed. So the trace amounts of marijuana is irrelevant."

According to forensics reports, Zimmerman's DNA was found on the gun, except for the trigger. Another person's DNA was also found on the gun, but experts said could not immediately identify whose it was.

Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to charges of second-degree murder for Martin's death. His whereabouts have been kept secret after he bonded out of jail in April.

This wasnt like treyvon caught a stray bullitt walking down the street,this was the direct result of a bad decision by zimmerman.

Trayvons decisions play a part as well.

His decision to protect his own life from a stranger following him?

Well, he confronted Zimmerman, they spoke.. Tray's GF said that Zimmerman asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood. I think if that did happen, me being in Trays shoes, I'd have understood that Zimmerman was a concerned adult, and not a rapist or murderer..

Oh, now its ok to assume what one of them was thinking? All Z had to do was say that he was neighborhood watch but he didn't, he went with the more confrontational "What are you doing here". Plenty of bad blooded encounters start that way and it in no way disarms the situation at all.

This has been happening all thread.

 

[Witz]

So why are you making any points if it's not known?

What did I say above that I stated as fact?

 

[Christo]

I'm still completely flabbergasted. Zimmerman can be armed, pick a fight, starting losing it, then shoot to kill and get no penalty? Its just....absurdly baffling. Its like Florida is sending out an open invitation to psychopaths.

 

[Christo]

It is silly of the police to speculate that this could have been prevented had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle. Why not speculate that this could have been prevented had Martin not doubled back to confront Zimmerman and start kicking his ###? There are lots of circumstances that could have prevented the situation from occurring. The hard facts seem to support Zimmerman's version.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/5/18/zimmerman_evidence.html

SANFORD --

"Avoidable" -- that's how some investigators described the deadly encounter between George Zimmerman and 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

After Thursday's release of new documents, photos and other pieces of evidence in the case against Zimmerman, lawyers on both sides have spoken about Florida state prosecutors' findings.

The newly released evidence includes nearly 200 pages of documents, interviews with witnesses and Zimmerman's father, and some intense photos of blood on Zimmerman's head and face shortly after the shooting.

The officers who first investigated the shooting scene said it might not have happened if Zimmerman would have stayed in his car, waited for police and identified himself as a concerned citizen.

But Friday morning, Zimmerman's lawyer, Mark O'Mara, reacted to police statements saying the situation could have been avoided.

"I understand the law enforcement perceptive that this was avoidable -- and quite honesty, in every life event or experience, we can go back to one of the premises and say had it not happened, had he not been going to the target store, had Trayvon Martin not been in the neighborhood had he not gotten out of his car," O'Mara told NBC's "Today" show Friday. "We have to deal with what did happen, and explain that properly and in a courtroom."

There were no clear witness statements among the evidence released Thursday about who started the scuffle between Zimmerman and Martin.

What we do know is that there were just 8½ minutes between the time George Zimmerman first dialed 911 and the moment the fatal shot was fired.

The reports also indicated Martin had traces of THC in his system, a main component in marijuana.

But Benjamin Crump, the Martin family's lawyer who appeared Thursday on CNN's "Piers Morgan Tonight," said that didn't matter.

"What's really relevant is the fact there was no toxicology report done on George Zimmerman," said Crump. "We don't know what else was in his system with the prescribed medicines he was on, to have him get out of his car in the rain and profile, pursue and confront Trayvon Martin, and then kill Trayvon Martin in cold blood, even though he was unarmed. So the trace amounts of marijuana is irrelevant."

According to forensics reports, Zimmerman's DNA was found on the gun, except for the trigger. Another person's DNA was also found on the gun, but experts said could not immediately identify whose it was.

Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to charges of second-degree murder for Martin's death. His whereabouts have been kept secret after he bonded out of jail in April.

This wasnt like treyvon caught a stray bullitt walking down the street,this was the direct result of a bad decision by zimmerman.

Trayvons decisions play a part as well.

going to a store to buy something shouldnt cost you your life...no matter what

Punching someone in the face and then climbing on top of them, smacking their head against the ground is more likely to cost you your life then getting out of your car because you're in the neighborhood watch program and your trying to look out for your neighbors..

You mean, making sure a stalker is unconscious before you walk away from him? Sorry, if that was me, I'd pound the guy til I was sure he couldn't get up and come after me. That's what all you guys seem to think shouldn't matter. Zimmerman is an armed man stalking a kid, but the kid can't defend himself and make sure he's safe before he lets up.

So in your world you are allowed to punch someone until he is unconscious just because you think he is following you. Got it.

Because I think he's following me? There was no doubt about it, and he was confrontational with "What are you doing here" instead of identifying himself first. Plus, if you believe the gf, Zimmerman may have made the first contact. Yeah, if someone is stalking me, is confrontational and it gets physical, I'm knocking him out so he can't do something crazy, like pull a gun on me.

 

[Christo]

Look above. It's absurd to say that Martin speaking first "started" the encounter when he clearly tried to ditch Zimmerman but Z found him again.

Or Martin doubled back and approached Zimmerman. But, hey. You know what none of the rest of us know.

 

[Christo]

Look above. It's absurd to say that Martin speaking first "started" the encounter when he clearly tried to ditch Zimmerman but Z found him again.

Even with Zimmerman following Martin in the development (where he lived), it was Martin who engaged with Zimmerman first (unless of course you don't believe Martin's GF).

Martin spoke first to ask a guy who's been following him why he was following him. Yeah, that's starting it all right!eta: and if you further believe the gf, Zimmerman made first physical contact.

Link?

 

[Christo]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

If we are to believe Martin's girlfriend statements from her phone call with Martin during this time period, it was Martin who spoke first to Zimmerman, saying 'Why are you following me?'. Martin engaged Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Yeah, asking someone who's been following you for a while is engaging the encounter.

'for a while'



How long was this 'chase' going on?

Not sure on the timeline, it's in here a lot I'm sure. But long enough for Martin to be worried about it, try to ditch Zimmerman and get found again.

There it is again - how do you know it was Zimmerman who found Martin again or it was Martin who found Zimmerman?

Because Zimm was actively searching for and following Martin, that isnt even up for debate.

Of course it is. How do you know Zimmerman wasn't returning to his truck and Martin doubled back and approached him?

 

[Christo]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

If we are to believe Martin's girlfriend statements from her phone call with Martin during this time period, it was Martin who spoke first to Zimmerman, saying 'Why are you following me?'. Martin engaged Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Yeah, asking someone who's been following you for a while is engaging the encounter.

'for a while'



How long was this 'chase' going on?

Not sure on the timeline, it's in here a lot I'm sure. But long enough for Martin to be worried about it, try to ditch Zimmerman and get found again.

There it is again - how do you know it was Zimmerman who found Martin again or it was Martin who found Zimmerman?

Are you trying to deny the fact that Zimmerman was trailing/stalking/following Martin even after the 911 operator said they didn't need him to?

The operator said Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin and Zimmerman said "okay." Zimmerman claimed Martin approached him from behind. If you have any actual facts which refute this, I'd love to hear/see them.

 

[Christo]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

If we are to believe Martin's girlfriend statements from her phone call with Martin during this time period, it was Martin who spoke first to Zimmerman, saying 'Why are you following me?'. Martin engaged Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Yeah, asking someone who's been following you for a while is engaging the encounter.

'for a while'



How long was this 'chase' going on?

Not sure on the timeline, it's in here a lot I'm sure. But long enough for Martin to be worried about it, try to ditch Zimmerman and get found again.

There it is again - how do you know it was Zimmerman who found Martin again or it was Martin who found Zimmerman?

Are you trying to deny the fact that Zimmerman was trailing/stalking/following Martin even after the 911 operator said they didn't need him to?

Again - don't let what's known or not known get in the way of you making your point. You have ZERO way of knowing whether Zimmerman was still looking for Martin after the police dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow him. Zero.

Yes we know that is a fact, because he got out of his car. He even admits that he was following him. It is not to be disputed. If Zimmerman had listened to the police dispatcher we are not having this discussion and that 17 year old kid is not dead.

No one is disputing that Zimmerman got out of his car and started to follow Martin. The issue is whether Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after the dispatcher told him not to. We don't know for a fact that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after that.

 

[mad sweeney]

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing.

Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

If we are to believe Martin's girlfriend statements from her phone call with Martin during this time period, it was Martin who spoke first to Zimmerman, saying 'Why are you following me?'. Martin engaged Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Yeah, asking someone who's been following you for a while is engaging the encounter.

'for a while'



How long was this 'chase' going on?

Not sure on the timeline, it's in here a lot I'm sure. But long enough for Martin to be worried about it, try to ditch Zimmerman and get found again.

There it is again - how do you know it was Zimmerman who found Martin again or it was Martin who found Zimmerman?

Are you trying to deny the fact that Zimmerman was trailing/stalking/following Martin even after the 911 operator said they didn't need him to?

Again - don't let what's known or not known get in the way of you making your point. You have ZERO way of knowing whether Zimmerman was still looking for Martin after the police dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow him. Zero.

Yes we know that is a fact, because he got out of his car. He even admits that he was following him. It is not to be disputed. If Zimmerman had listened to the police dispatcher we are not having this discussion and that 17 year old kid is not dead.

No one is disputing that Zimmerman got out of his car and started to follow Martin. The issue is whether Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after the dispatcher told him not to. We don't know for a fact that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after that.

The 911 operator didn't say not to.

 

[greenroom]

Look above. It's absurd to say that Martin speaking first "started" the encounter when he clearly tried to ditch Zimmerman but Z found him again.

Or Martin doubled back and approached Zimmerman. But, hey. You know what none of the rest of us know.

Link?? why do I fall into this fishing trip???

 

[Christo]

Again - don't let what's known or not known get in the way of you making your point. You have ZERO way of knowing whether Zimmerman was still looking for Martin after the police dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow him. Zero.

Yes we know that is a fact, because he got out of his car. He even admits that he was following him. It is not to be disputed. If Zimmerman had listened to the police dispatcher we are not having this discussion and that 17 year old kid is not dead.

No one is disputing that Zimmerman got out of his car and started to follow Martin. The issue is whether Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after the dispatcher told him not to. We don't know for a fact that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after that.

The 911 operator didn't say not to.

Way to ignore the point

 

[Christo]

Look above. It's absurd to say that Martin speaking first "started" the encounter when he clearly tried to ditch Zimmerman but Z found him again.

Or Martin doubled back and approached Zimmerman. But, hey. You know what none of the rest of us know.

Link?? So its ok to say you know what happened,

Where did I say I know what happened?

yet you refuse to listen to logic on how this kid was killed?

We know how Martin was killed. Zimmerman admitted he shot him.

Bottom line Zimmerman went after Martin, got over his head and killed the kid.

Or Zimmerman was following Martin then heeded the dispatcher's advice and decided to return to his car but Martin doubled back and approached him.

Those are the facts in the report even you cannot dispute that he was after Martin, before Martin was aware of what Zimmerman was doing.

That's an incomplete recitation of even what we know, let alone what we don't know.

 

[Christo]

Look above. It's absurd to say that Martin speaking first "started" the encounter when he clearly tried to ditch Zimmerman but Z found him again.

Or Martin doubled back and approached Zimmerman. But, hey. You know what none of the rest of us know.

Link?? why do I fall into this fishing trip???

So now it's a fishing trip to state we don't know exactly what happened.

 

[BoneYardDog]

Took a day of vacation today and went shooting with the wife...

With all the thugs out there you better be able to defend yourself...

 

[TexanFan02]

Took a day of vacation today and went shooting with the wife...With all the thugs out there you better be able to defend yourself...

Thanks Clinton. Nice use of the in a thread about an innocent teenager who was killed by a thug with a gun.

 

[BoneYardDog]

Took a day of vacation today and went shooting with the wife...With all the thugs out there you better be able to defend yourself...

Thanks Clinton. Nice use of the in a thread about an innocent teenager who was killed by a thug with a gun.

Are you back on your side of the Sabine???

 

[TexanFan02]

Took a day of vacation today and went shooting with the wife...With all the thugs out there you better be able to defend yourself...

Thanks Clinton. Nice use of the in a thread about an innocent teenager who was killed by a thug with a gun.

Are you back on your side of the Sabine???

What happened to your Nawlins post? I'd rather be there.

 

[BoneYardDog]

Took a day of vacation today and went shooting with the wife...With all the thugs out there you better be able to defend yourself...

Thanks Clinton. Nice use of the in a thread about an innocent teenager who was killed by a thug with a gun.

Are you back on your side of the Sabine???

What happened to your Nawlins post? I'd rather be there.

Wanted to make sure I had you covered...

 

[BigSteelThrill]

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."

 

[TexanFan02]

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."

Toast.

 

[Witz]

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."

A man identified only as witness 6 told investigators that he heard a commotion coming from the walk behind his residence. He witnessed a black male wearing a dark-colored "hoodie" on top of a white or Hispanic male who was yelling for help.Police said the witness elaborated by saying the black man was mounted on Zimmerman and throwing punches "MMA" style, meaning mixed martial arts style. The witness stated that the man on the ground yelled out for help.

Works both ways. Guess we know where those cries for help were coming from, uh?

 

[timschochet]

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."

Now which witness is this? And what exactly did he see? It seems like every time I get a grasp and make a judgment about this case, some new information comes along and changes my mind. I'd like to know what this witness saw.And I'd also like to know, once and for all, how Zimmerman and Martin measured up to each other in terms of height and weight. Is there any DEFINITIVE information about this?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."

Now which witness is this? And what exactly did he see? It seems like every time I get a grasp and make a judgment about this case, some new information comes along and changes my mind. I'd like to know what this witness saw.And I'd also like to know, once and for all, how Zimmerman and Martin measured up to each other in terms of height and weight. Is there any DEFINITIVE information about this?

Two issues with the statement (which I think is dead on btw)... "feel" and "think". Even if truth is known... you have to prove it or it doesnt mean anything.

 

[mad sweeney]

Again - don't let what's known or not known get in the way of you making your point. You have ZERO way of knowing whether Zimmerman was still looking for Martin after the police dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow him. Zero.

Yes we know that is a fact, because he got out of his car. He even admits that he was following him. It is not to be disputed. If Zimmerman had listened to the police dispatcher we are not having this discussion and that 17 year old kid is not dead.

No one is disputing that Zimmerman got out of his car and started to follow Martin. The issue is whether Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after the dispatcher told him not to. We don't know for a fact that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after that.

The 911 operator didn't say not to.

Way to ignore the point

You're right, I was Christo-ing.

 

[jon_mx]

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."

Now which witness is this? And what exactly did he see? It seems like every time I get a grasp and make a judgment about this case, some new information comes along and changes my mind. I'd like to know what this witness saw.And I'd also like to know, once and for all, how Zimmerman and Martin measured up to each other in terms of height and weight. Is there any DEFINITIVE information about this?

So you believe some witness knows how Zimmerman felt. Some guy is kicking your ###, you are going to shoot him in the leg and give him the opportunity to grab the gun? Seriously? He shot him at close range, not sure how that he could think he was running away. I will have to see what he says he saw and how well he saw it. Based solely on this statement, there is not much to go on.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Look above. It's absurd to say that Martin speaking first "started" the encounter when he clearly tried to ditch Zimmerman but Z found him again.

Even with Zimmerman following Martin in the development (where he lived), it was Martin who engaged with Zimmerman first (unless of course you don't believe Martin's GF).

Martin spoke first to ask a guy who's been following him why he was following him. Yeah, that's starting it all right!eta: and if you further believe the gf, Zimmerman made first physical contact.

Yea, he was so afraid for his life that he decided to start a conversation..

Demanding to know why you're being followed is not "starting a conversation".

Yea, sorry, you're right, he's not starting a conversation, he's starting a confrontation..http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conversation

 

[Carolina Hustler]

"I do honestly feel that he intended for this kid to die," witness 5 told investigators. "If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17-year-old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him. ... I think the kid was running for help."

If that is what witness 5 said, witness 5 is a moron..

 

[Class Dismissed]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

Do you have Mad Sweeney on ignore?He has laid out a case as to why he believes Zimmerman deserved to have his ### kicked.

 

[TexanFan02]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

Do you have Mad Sweeney on ignore?He has laid out the case as to why Zimmerman deserved to have his ### kicked.

What a lot of people here don't realize, because most of his posts are tl'dr is that Timmy blows with the wind. He's changed his mind about 1500 times in this thread alone. And every time he does it, he pretends like it's a big deal and people that haven't been paying attention comment on it. Which feeds him to do it more. When he isn't busy doing drafts.

 

[identikit]

We don't know exactly what was said, but if Zimmerman didn't physically or verbally threaten Trayvon, Trayvon should not have attacked him..

And here is a real problem for Zimmerman's defense. Yes, as I've written, based on what we know, he should be acquitted. But I still think this is a problem. Why did Trayvon attack him?

Sorry, but it is illogical for me to believe that all Zimmerman did was ask Martin what he was doing there, and Martin responding by knocking Zimmerman to the ground and slamming him with punches. That just doesn't fly. It doesn't ring true to me, and it won't ring true to a jury. Zimmerman MUST have said something or done something that Martin found threatening. Maybe he didn't mean to. Maybe it was misinterpreted. Or maybe Zimmerman deliberately said or did something threatening, knowing exactly what he was doing. Either way, Zimmerman is covering up something when he claims that he was attacked from behind for no reason whatsoever. Are you willing to admit this?

Do you have Mad Sweeney on ignore?He has laid out the case as to why Zimmerman deserved to have his ### kicked.

What a lot of people here don't realize, because most of his posts are tl'dr is that Timmy blows with the wind. He's changed his mind about 1500 times in this thread alone. And every time he does it, he pretends like it's a big deal and people that haven't been paying attention comment on it. Which feeds him to do it more. When he isn't busy doing drafts.

That's his M.O., no doubt.

 

[BusMan]

I'm still completely flabbergasted. Zimmerman can be armed, pick a fight, starting losing it, then shoot to kill and get no penalty? Its just....absurdly baffling. Its like Florida is sending out an open invitation to psychopaths.

Are you laughing at the absurdity of this or do you disagree?

 

[BusMan]

I'm still completely flabbergasted. Zimmerman can be armed, pick a fight, starting losing it, then shoot to kill and get no penalty? Its just....absurdly baffling. Its like Florida is sending out an open invitation to psychopaths.

Sigh. Please link where it is shown that it was Zimmerman that started the fight.

He started the fight by getting out of his truck and following the guy when he was told not to.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I'm still completely flabbergasted. Zimmerman can be armed, pick a fight, starting losing it, then shoot to kill and get no penalty? Its just....absurdly baffling. Its like Florida is sending out an open invitation to psychopaths.

Are you laughing at the absurdity of this or do you disagree?

He's laughing at you claiming that Zimmerman "picked a fight"..Also I think you're wrong in that there is no penalty.. This guys life, and his families lives, have been destroyed..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I'm still completely flabbergasted. Zimmerman can be armed, pick a fight, starting losing it, then shoot to kill and get no penalty? Its just....absurdly baffling. Its like Florida is sending out an open invitation to psychopaths.

Sigh. Please link where it is shown that it was Zimmerman that started the fight.

He started the fight by getting out of his truck and following the guy when he was told not to.

Please Link us to proof that he followed after the dispatchers statement..

 

[Christo]

Again - don't let what's known or not known get in the way of you making your point. You have ZERO way of knowing whether Zimmerman was still looking for Martin after the police dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow him. Zero.

Yes we know that is a fact, because he got out of his car. He even admits that he was following him. It is not to be disputed. If Zimmerman had listened to the police dispatcher we are not having this discussion and that 17 year old kid is not dead.

No one is disputing that Zimmerman got out of his car and started to follow Martin. The issue is whether Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after the dispatcher told him not to. We don't know for a fact that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after that.

The 911 operator didn't say not to.

Way to ignore the point

You're right, I was Christo-ing.

You're not very good at it. You should probably just stick with making up facts.

 

[Christo]

I'm still completely flabbergasted. Zimmerman can be armed, pick a fight, starting losing it, then shoot to kill and get no penalty? Its just....absurdly baffling. Its like Florida is sending out an open invitation to psychopaths.

Sigh. Please link where it is shown that it was Zimmerman that started the fight.

He started the fight by getting out of his truck and following the guy when he was told not to.

 

[BusMan]

double post

 

[BusMan]

I'm still completely flabbergasted. Zimmerman can be armed, pick a fight, starting losing it, then shoot to kill and get no penalty? Its just....absurdly baffling. Its like Florida is sending out an open invitation to psychopaths.

Sigh. Please link where it is shown that it was Zimmerman that started the fight.

He started the fight by getting out of his truck and following the guy when he was told not to.

Please Link us to proof that he followed after the dispatchers statement..

You're asking for "proof" of something that no one was there to witness?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I'm still completely flabbergasted. Zimmerman can be armed, pick a fight, starting losing it, then shoot to kill and get no penalty? Its just....absurdly baffling. Its like Florida is sending out an open invitation to psychopaths.

Sigh. Please link where it is shown that it was Zimmerman that started the fight.

He started the fight by getting out of his truck and following the guy when he was told not to.

Please Link us to proof that he followed after the dispatchers statement..

You're asking for "proof" of something that no one was there to witness?

Why are you claiming that it happened if you don't know? What are you basing your assertion on?

 

[BusMan]

I'm still completely flabbergasted. Zimmerman can be armed, pick a fight, starting losing it, then shoot to kill and get no penalty? Its just....absurdly baffling. Its like Florida is sending out an open invitation to psychopaths.

Sigh. Please link where it is shown that it was Zimmerman that started the fight.

He started the fight by getting out of his truck and following the guy when he was told not to.

Please Link us to proof that he followed after the dispatchers statement..

You're asking for "proof" of something that no one was there to witness?

Why are you claiming that it happened if you don't know?

My link

Trayvon had left the house he and his father were visiting to walk to the local 7-Eleven. On his way back, he caught the attention of George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain, who was in a sport-utility vehicle. Zimmerman called the police because the boy looked “real suspicious,” according to a 911 call released late Friday. The operator told Zimmerman that officers were being dispatched and not to pursue the boy.

Zimmerman apparently pursued him anyway, at some point getting out of his car and confronting the boy. Trayvon had a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea. Zimmerman had a 9 millimeter handgun.

My link

We know, quite obviously, that Trayvon Martin was shot after some kind of altercation with Zimmerman on February 26th. We know that Martin had been walking through the neighborhood on the way back to the home where he and his father were visiting after buying iced tea and Skittles. We know that Zimmermann spotted Martin while driving through the neighborhood in his SUV, that he called 911 to reported what he considered a suspicious person, and that the 911 operator told him that a patrol car was on the way and to not pursue Zimmerman Martin. We know that Zimmerman did in fact pursue Martin, thus leading to a course of events and confrontation that led to the shooting.