Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (3 Viewers)

[jon_mx]

If there is any emotion in this thread, it stems almost entirely from the pro-Zimmerman side. Most of you guys don't want him to be guilty because if he is, then the anti-gun folks win, and the liberal race-baiting Sharpton types win, and Obama wins. That's why almost every conservative who has posted on this subject regards Zimmerman as innocent. It has much less to do with the facts, and much more to do with your political and cultural views.

Amazing coincidence, who could have predicted that?

So are you jumping on the back of Tim's bike for the shark jump?

 

[Witz]

You left out

1. Assumed Martin was a criminal for no reason at all

WRONG.

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ... Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing? Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring... Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area... Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

What's wrong with that? They have had break-ins in the neighborhood, Martin was acting suspicious and was actually on drugs.

Really?

Yes.

No. Martin was not acting suspicious. He was walking slowly. He was a black teenage boy in a hoodie. That was suspicious enough for Zimmerman.People ask me why I think GZ was a racist. The first reason is because he racially profiled Trayvon Martin. Martin was suspicious mainly because he was black, IMO. If you disagree with this, I would suggest you have a 10 minute conversation with just about any black male in this country. They've all been through it. They'll set you straight.

I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you are seriously off the rails at this point. So what you're saying is that any time ANY person questions the actions of someone who is BLACK, they are racist profiling the person?

 

[Hang 10]

You left out

1. Assumed Martin was a criminal for no reason at all

WRONG.

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ... Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing? Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring... Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area... Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

What's wrong with that? They have had break-ins in the neighborhood, Martin was acting suspicious and was actually on drugs.

Really?

Yes.

No. Martin was not acting suspicious. He was walking slowly. He was a black teenage boy in a hoodie. That was suspicious enough for Zimmerman.People ask me why I think GZ was a racist. The first reason is because he racially profiled Trayvon Martin. Martin was suspicious mainly because he was black, IMO. If you disagree with this, I would suggest you have a 10 minute conversation with just about any black male in this country. They've all been through it. They'll set you straight.

Walking slowly in the rain, at night, in and out of peoples yards is suspicious. Doesn't matter what color he was.

 

[RCon]

No. Martin was not acting suspicious. He was walking slowly. He was a black teenage boy in a hoodie. That was suspicious enough for Zimmerman.People ask me why I think GZ was a racist. The first reason is because he racially profiled Trayvon Martin. Martin was suspicious mainly because he was black, IMO. If you disagree with this, I would suggest you have a 10 minute conversation with just about any black male in this country. They've all been through it. They'll set you straight.

This post right here. This one is the reason why people say you're actively looking for racism, and subsequently finding it where none exists. Do you not see that the 911 operator had to ask Zimmerman the race rather than him volunteering it? Can you honestly not understand that Zimmerman might have viewed the actions themselves (walking between houses, with no obvious intent to get from point A to point B) as suspicious, in light of previous breakins in the neighborhood?

 

[timschochet]

Also, once again you're simply repeating Zimmerman as if it were true. How do we know that Martin was looking into houses? Personally I am as skeptical of that as I am of almost every other aspect of GZs narrative.

 

[RCon]

No. Martin was not acting suspicious. He was walking slowly. He was a black teenage boy in a hoodie. That was suspicious enough for Zimmerman.

People ask me why I think GZ was a racist. The first reason is because he racially profiled Trayvon Martin. Martin was suspicious mainly because he was black, IMO. If you disagree with this, I would suggest you have a 10 minute conversation with just about any black male in this country. They've all been through it. They'll set you straight.

It was more than just walking slowly. He was walking in between houses, and looking into them, it was raining, and he had a hoodie. I think if a black male w/o a hoodie was walking down the sidewalk slowly, I doubt GZ would have called the non-emergency 911 number, but i could be wrong.

I'm 99% sure you are. (wrong)

I stand corrected. It's this post.

 

[jon_mx]

You left out

1. Assumed Martin was a criminal for no reason at all

WRONG.

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ... Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing? Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring... Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area... Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

What's wrong with that? They have had break-ins in the neighborhood, Martin was acting suspicious and was actually on drugs.

Really?

Yes.

No. Martin was not acting suspicious. He was walking slowly. He was a black teenage boy in a hoodie. That was suspicious enough for Zimmerman.People ask me why I think GZ was a racist. The first reason is because he racially profiled Trayvon Martin. Martin was suspicious mainly because he was black, IMO. If you disagree with this, I would suggest you have a 10 minute conversation with just about any black male in this country. They've all been through it. They'll set you straight.

It was more than just walking slowly. He was walking in between houses, and looking into them, it was raining, and he had a hoodie. I think if a black male w/o a hoodie was walking down the sidewalk slowly, I doubt GZ would have called the non-emergency 911 number, but i could be wrong.

I'm 99% sure you are. (wrong)

Feelings!

Nothing more than Feelings......

Ffffeeeellllllliiiiinnnnnggggggsssss!

Whoa whoa whoa Feelings!

 

[RCon]

Also, once again you're simply repeating Zimmerman as if it were true. How do we know that Martin was looking into houses? Personally I am as skeptical of that as I am of almost every other aspect of GZs narrative.

We don't, but what makes you skeptical? Is there any evidence to back up your claim, or is it simply your feeling that Zimmerman is a racist scumbag?

 

[Stinger Ray]

Also, once again you're simply repeating Zimmerman as if it were true. How do we know that Martin was looking into houses? Personally I am as skeptical of that as I am of almost every other aspect of GZs narrative.

We know! You have mentioned that several hundred times in this thread. You really have hit new lows in this thread.

 

[timschochet]

No. Martin was not acting suspicious. He was walking slowly. He was a black teenage boy in a hoodie. That was suspicious enough for Zimmerman.

People ask me why I think GZ was a racist. The first reason is because he racially profiled Trayvon Martin. Martin was suspicious mainly because he was black, IMO. If you disagree with this, I would suggest you have a 10 minute conversation with just about any black male in this country. They've all been through it. They'll set you straight.

This post right here. This one is the reason why people say you're actively looking for racism, and subsequently finding it where none exists. Do you not see that the 911 operator had to ask Zimmerman the race rather than him volunteering it? Can you honestly not understand that Zimmerman might have viewed the actions themselves (walking between houses, with no obvious intent to get from point A to point B) as suspicious, in light of previous breakins in the neighborhood?

I see this as exactly the opposite as you. I see people here trying their absolute best to dismiss racism when it so obviously exists.

 

[Witz]

Also, once again you're simply repeating Zimmerman as if it were true. How do we know that Martin was looking into houses? Personally I am as skeptical of that as I am of almost every other aspect of GZs narrative.

We don't, but what makes you skeptical? Is there any evidence to back up your claim, or is it simply your feeling that Zimmerman is a racist scumbag?

Honestly - stop engaging him at this point. He's already stating time and time again he has ZERO evidence aside from his gut.

 

[timschochet]

Also, once again you're simply repeating Zimmerman as if it were true. How do we know that Martin was looking into houses? Personally I am as skeptical of that as I am of almost every other aspect of GZs narrative.

We don't, but what makes you skeptical? Is there any evidence to back up your claim, or is it simply your feeling that Zimmerman is a racist scumbag?

I've given you reasons. You've reject them. You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[timschochet]

Also, once again you're simply repeating Zimmerman as if it were true. How do we know that Martin was looking into houses? Personally I am as skeptical of that as I am of almost every other aspect of GZs narrative.

We don't, but what makes you skeptical? Is there any evidence to back up your claim, or is it simply your feeling that Zimmerman is a racist scumbag?

Honestly - stop engaging him at this point. He's already stating time and time again he has ZERO evidence aside from his gut.

Bull####. I have never stated anything close to that. I've given you my reasons.

 

[kentric]

Did you not hear the screaming????? Some of it sounds smothered and then i gets clearer. Perhaps, Martin was smothering Zimmerman at first and then went to punching. It is really not that hard to explain it. Your hatred of Zimmerman makes you come to some of the most ridiculous conclusions. You are biased beyond belief.

You have assumed all along that it is Zimmerman screaming. I've never been fully convinced of this. I don't know who was screaming.

Why in the world would the person who is on top and beating another man be screaming for the 90 seconds or so the confrontation went on. Don't you think that when Jon and the other person came out and told TM to stop that he would have if he was the one screaming for help? Jon was a strong, impartial witness. Why would you discount his statement that it was Z who was screaming? You're making no sense here Tim.

There are scenarios I can think of where the person on top would be screaming, but John believed it was Zimmerman, so those scenarios really aren't worth going through.

I can think of scenarios too, but they were largely discounted by the fast that two people came out and tried to stop it. If for instance, TM was trying to restrain Z, he would have used those opportunities to get assistance, not continue the fight.

 

[kentric]

Was there any definitive word on why there were no black people on the jury? It seems that the jury was stacked against the Prosecution with all white female jurors. I am sure that the Prosecution did its best to include a black juror but there's got to be more surrounding this.

I understand that each side is allowed a certain number of 'removals'. Was the demographic of the region supplying the juror pool 90% white? It didn't seem that way based on the Z's small community.

Because a jury full of moms is bad for the prosecution in a case where a 17-year old was killed? Okay.

A jury which is exclusive of blacks is good for the prosection? Okay

 

[Clifford]

You left out

1. Assumed Martin was a criminal for no reason at all

WRONG.

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ... Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing? Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring... Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area... Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

What's wrong with that? They have had break-ins in the neighborhood, Martin was acting suspicious and was actually on drugs.

Really?

Yes.

No. Martin was not acting suspicious. He was walking slowly. He was a black teenage boy in a hoodie. That was suspicious enough for Zimmerman.People ask me why I think GZ was a racist. The first reason is because he racially profiled Trayvon Martin. Martin was suspicious mainly because he was black, IMO. If you disagree with this, I would suggest you have a 10 minute conversation with just about any black male in this country. They've all been through it. They'll set you straight.

It was more than just walking slowly. He was walking in between houses, and looking into them, it was raining, and he had a hoodie. I think if a black male w/o a hoodie was walking down the sidewalk slowly, I doubt GZ would have called the non-emergency 911 number, but i could be wrong.

1. Is there any evidence of this other than Zimmerman's testimony (IE any of these homeowners spot him peering into windows?)

2. Do you believe every word Zimmerman has said 100%?

Also, since we're being so literal, Zimmerman just said he was "looking at all the houses" not into them.

 

[jonessed]

Probably good advice. I'm certainly getting close to it. I've tried to reason with these folks, but just like in the gun control thread, it's really getting frustrating.

"Reason" ... From the guy that runs on pure emotion.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Tim, or anyone else who thinks GZ is a racist:

How do you explain him having a black prom date, tutoring black kids and the other positive interactions he had with black people before this incident?

Check your emotions about this case and just use logic. This situation is not what you want it to be.

 

[timschochet]

If you guys aren't willing to at least acknowledge that a big part of Zimmerman's suspicion of Martin had to do with skin color, then theres very little for us to discuss. For me it's the starting point of this whole topic, and what makes this case so much more important than the killings which go on every day in this country. Despite the assertions of both prosecution and defense, this case was all about race, IMO.

 

[jon_mx]

Martin had no reason not to stop beating on Zimmerman when asked to except that he was a pissed off punk wanting to kick some cracker's ###. You can rationalize Martin's activities all you want to before then, but past that point he was a punk and bears most responsibilities.

 

[kentric]

You left out

1. Assumed Martin was a criminal for no reason at all

WRONG.

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ... Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing? Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring... Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area... Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

What's wrong with that? They have had break-ins in the neighborhood, Martin was acting suspicious and was actually on drugs.

Really?

Yes.

No. Martin was not acting suspicious. He was walking slowly. He was a black teenage boy in a hoodie. That was suspicious enough for Zimmerman.People ask me why I think GZ was a racist. The first reason is because he racially profiled Trayvon Martin. Martin was suspicious mainly because he was black, IMO. If you disagree with this, I would suggest you have a 10 minute conversation with just about any black male in this country. They've all been through it. They'll set you straight.

Was he profiling? I think he was. There had been a number of burglaries in the neighborhood including at least one which had a black youth in a hoodie perpertrating the crime. Does this make Z racist? Not in my mind. You're also forgetting the relations he had with various blacks where he proved himself helpful and respectful.

 

[Witz]

Also, once again you're simply repeating Zimmerman as if it were true. How do we know that Martin was looking into houses? Personally I am as skeptical of that as I am of almost every other aspect of GZs narrative.

We don't, but what makes you skeptical? Is there any evidence to back up your claim, or is it simply your feeling that Zimmerman is a racist scumbag?

Honestly - stop engaging him at this point. He's already stating time and time again he has ZERO evidence aside from his gut.

Bull####. I have never stated anything close to that. I've given you my reasons.

Tim you have been all over the board from Day 1 so please don't act all indignant. You have ZERO proof he's a racist and folks have even provided numerous points that could prove he's not racist, but you continue to carry the racist flag. Sorry but it's gotten to the point that's it's pretty disgusting.

 

[jon_mx]

If you guys aren't willing to at least acknowledge that a big part of Zimmerman's suspicion of Martin had to do with skin color, then theres very little for us to discuss. For me it's the starting point of this whole topic, and what makes this case so much more important than the killings which go on every day in this country. Despite the assertions of both prosecution and defense, this case was all about race, IMO.

If Zimmerman was racist there would have been stuff that came out. If anything, there is a ton of evidence which suggest Zimmerman was a tolerant individual who embraced people of color.

 

[timschochet]

Tim, or anyone else who thinks GZ is a racist:

How do you explain him having a black prom date, tutoring black kids and the other positive interactions he had with black people before this incident?

Check your emotions about this case and just use logic. This situation is not what you want it to be.

I'll try to keep my emotions in check, thanks. I never stated nor implied that Zimmerman was some white supremacist KKK member. He was suspicious of black teens in his neighborhood. That's the only part of his biography regarding this issue that's important.

 

[avoiding injuries]

You left out

1. Assumed Martin was a criminal for no reason at all

WRONG.

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ... Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing? Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring... Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area... Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

What's wrong with that? They have had break-ins in the neighborhood, Martin was acting suspicious and was actually on drugs.

Really?

Yes.

No. Martin was not acting suspicious. He was walking slowly. He was a black teenage boy in a hoodie. That was suspicious enough for Zimmerman.People ask me why I think GZ was a racist. The first reason is because he racially profiled Trayvon Martin. Martin was suspicious mainly because he was black, IMO. If you disagree with this, I would suggest you have a 10 minute conversation with just about any black male in this country. They've all been through it. They'll set you straight.

I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you are seriously off the rails at this point. So what you're saying is that any time ANY person questions the actions of someone who is BLACK, they are racist profiling the person?

How dare you ever notice the actions of a person who is black. RACIST!!!

 

[RCon]

Also, once again you're simply repeating Zimmerman as if it were true. How do we know that Martin was looking into houses? Personally I am as skeptical of that as I am of almost every other aspect of GZs narrative.

We don't, but what makes you skeptical? Is there any evidence to back up your claim, or is it simply your feeling that Zimmerman is a racist scumbag?

I've given you reasons. You've reject them. You're entitled to your opinion.

I haven't seen them if you've posted them. What makes you skeptical of this specific point, that Zimmerman was suspicious of Martin because of his race rather than his actions (in context of the neighborhood's recent history)?

 

[Witz]

Tim, or anyone else who thinks GZ is a racist:

How do you explain him having a black prom date, tutoring black kids and the other positive interactions he had with black people before this incident?

Check your emotions about this case and just use logic. This situation is not what you want it to be.

I'll try to keep my emotions in check, thanks.I never stated nor implied that Zimmerman was some white supremacist KKK member. He was suspicious of black teens in his neighborhood. That's the only part of his biography regarding this issue that's important.

*sigh*

It was already shown that based on the overall number of calls he made to the NEN, it was a small percentage that had to do with black individuals (as calls were also made on whites, hispanics, etc).

 

[RCon]

If you guys aren't willing to at least acknowledge that a big part of Zimmerman's suspicion of Martin had to do with skin color, then theres very little for us to discuss. For me it's the starting point of this whole topic, and what makes this case so much more important than the killings which go on every day in this country. Despite the assertions of both prosecution and defense, this case was all about race, IMO.

Exactly. For you, it's all about race, logic be damned.

 

[timschochet]

Guys- this is bound to make some of you very happy- I'm retiring from this thread as of now. I've been guilty of rehashing the same arguments over and over and frankly it's starting to bore me.

If new information occurs I may be back. Otherwise, please carry on without me.

 

[jon_mx]

Out of the 4 robberies which people were identified in the neighborhood, all involved young black males.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Also, once again you're simply repeating Zimmerman as if it were true. How do we know that Martin was looking into houses? Personally I am as skeptical of that as I am of almost every other aspect of GZs narrative.

I think this all started, when Zimmerman's wife mentioned that there was someone outside that looked suspicious. No specifics of race or actions.

 

[avoiding injuries]

If you guys aren't willing to at least acknowledge that a big part of Zimmerman's suspicion of Martin had to do with skin color, then theres very little for us to discuss. For me it's the starting point of this whole topic, and what makes this case so much more important than the killings which go on every day in this country. Despite the assertions of both prosecution and defense, this case was all about race, IMO.

If a certain group of people were causing trouble in GZ's neighborhood, and GZ used the description of these said people to make a determination of someone who is suspicious, I do not fault him. Whether it be their age, sex, race or the fact that it's raining and their standing in the yard of a house he knows they don't live in. It's cognitive learning. Not racism.

 

[ArbyMelt]

I don't think there is a single person on this earth that is not racist, according to Tim's definition.

 

[Two Deep]

Tim, or anyone else who thinks GZ is a racist:

How do you explain him having a black prom date, tutoring black kids and the other positive interactions he had with black people before this incident?

Check your emotions about this case and just use logic. This situation is not what you want it to be.

Yeah because even a Chinese guy can be male.

 

[Joe McGee]

Guys- this is bound to make some of you very happy- I'm retiring from this thread as of now. I've been guilty of rehashing the same arguments over and over and frankly it's starting to bore me.

If new information occurs I may be back. Otherwise, please carry on without me.

Glad you finally figured out you were wrong!

 

[BroadwayG]

Also, once again you're simply repeating Zimmerman as if it were true. How do we know that Martin was looking into houses? Personally I am as skeptical of that as I am of almost every other aspect of GZs narrative.

Except the 'these bootieholes always get away' part of course. That is totally revealing of his character.

 

[The Commish]

You left out

1. Assumed Martin was a criminal for no reason at all

WRONG.

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ... Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black. Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing? Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring... Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area... Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

What's wrong with that? They have had break-ins in the neighborhood, Martin was acting suspicious and was actually on drugs.

Really?

Yes.

No. Martin was not acting suspicious. He was walking slowly. He was a black teenage boy in a hoodie. That was suspicious enough for Zimmerman.People ask me why I think GZ was a racist. The first reason is because he racially profiled Trayvon Martin. Martin was suspicious mainly because he was black, IMO. If you disagree with this, I would suggest you have a 10 minute conversation with just about any black male in this country. They've all been through it. They'll set you straight.

It was more than just walking slowly. He was walking in between houses, and looking into them, it was raining, and he had a hoodie. I think if a black male w/o a hoodie was walking down the sidewalk slowly, I doubt GZ would have called the non-emergency 911 number, but i could be wrong.

FWIW...Zimmerman said he was "walking about" "just staring, looking at all the houses" was the "looking into them" part added in his reenactment or something? I don't remember that being said.

 

[The Commish]

Did you not hear the screaming????? Some of it sounds smothered and then i gets clearer. Perhaps, Martin was smothering Zimmerman at first and then went to punching. It is really not that hard to explain it. Your hatred of Zimmerman makes you come to some of the most ridiculous conclusions. You are biased beyond belief.

You have assumed all along that it is Zimmerman screaming. I've never been fully convinced of this. I don't know who was screaming.

Why in the world would the person who is on top and beating another man be screaming for the 90 seconds or so the confrontation went on. Don't you think that when Jon and the other person came out and told TM to stop that he would have if he was the one screaming for help? Jon was a strong, impartial witness. Why would you discount his statement that it was Z who was screaming? You're making no sense here Tim.

There are scenarios I can think of where the person on top would be screaming, but John believed it was Zimmerman, so those scenarios really aren't worth going through.

I can think of scenarios too, but they were largely discounted by the fast that two people came out and tried to stop it. If for instance, TM was trying to restrain Z, he would have used those opportunities to get assistance, not continue the fight.

I'm not in the business of trying to determine what the dead guy would/should do in the heat of a fight. I'll leave that to you guys. Heck we don't even know what Zimmerman was thinking for sure and he's alive. We have no idea if he even heard those folks over Zimmerman's screaming.

 

[kentric]

Guys- this is bound to make some of you very happy- I'm retiring from this thread as of now. I've been guilty of rehashing the same arguments over and over and frankly it's starting to bore me.

If new information occurs I may be back. Otherwise, please carry on without me.

Need an over/under on number of pages before Tim returns to post (without new information).

 

[Clifford]

If you guys aren't willing to at least acknowledge that a big part of Zimmerman's suspicion of Martin had to do with skin color, then theres very little for us to discuss. For me it's the starting point of this whole topic, and what makes this case so much more important than the killings which go on every day in this country. Despite the assertions of both prosecution and defense, this case was all about race, IMO.

If Zimmerman was racist there would have been stuff that came out. If anything, there is a ton of evidence which suggest Zimmerman was a tolerant individual who embraced people of color.

I don't Zimmerman was racist. I think he was an overly paranoid man who saw himself as a crime-fighter, which was his central delusion about himself. Because of this delusion he needed "villians" to stop from committing crimes, and I think it was his delusion about himself, rather than hatred for Martin's skin color, which caused him to conclude, without reason, that Martin was a criminal.

That being said, if a white man dressed in a button down and khakis had been doing the exact same thing, I don't think it would have been as easy for Zimmerman's paranoid, delusional brain to convince itself that what it was looking at was a criminal.

Zimmerman is not a racist or a murderer in my opinion. He is, however, a highly paranoid, delusional, and dangerous individual that should be incarcerated to prevent him from creating any more situations like the one he created.

 

[ATC1]

Honest question from someone who hasn't followed the trial at all and has only a passing knowledge of the facts:

How does someone who is packing heat end up on the ground with punches being rained down on him by an unarmed 150 pound kid? Was this some sort of Cato-style sneak attack where Zimmerman didn't have an opportunity to pull his weapon and tell the kid to back the #### off?

It was dark, they did exchange words. From the trail an expert said TM threw the punch that broke GZ nose and GZ was stunned to the point that TM took advantage.

At that point GZ did not feel his life was in danger, so he never pulled his weapon. Which is the correct action.

 

[cstu]

If you guys aren't willing to at least acknowledge that a big part of Zimmerman's suspicion of Martin had to do with skin color, then theres very little for us to discuss. For me it's the starting point of this whole topic, and what makes this case so much more important than the killings which go on every day in this country. Despite the assertions of both prosecution and defense, this case was all about race, IMO.

If Zimmerman was racist there would have been stuff that came out. If anything, there is a ton of evidence which suggest Zimmerman was a tolerant individual who embraced people of color.

I don't Zimmerman was racist. I think he was an overly paranoid man who saw himself as a crime-fighter, which was his central delusion about himself. Because of this delusion he needed "villians" to stop from committing crimes, and I think it was his delusion about himself, rather than hatred for Martin's skin color, which caused him to conclude, without reason, that Martin was a criminal.

That being said, if a white man dressed in a button down and khakis had been doing the exact same thing, I don't think it would have been as easy for Zimmerman's paranoid, delusional brain to convince itself that what it was looking at was a criminal.

Zimmerman is not a racist or a murderer in my opinion. He is, however, a highly paranoid, delusional, and dangerous individual that should be incarcerated to prevent him from creating any more situations like the one he created.

Here's a little background that shows Zimmerman wasn't paranoid and delusional.

As for dangerous, anytime someone is allowed to walk around with a deadly weapon it can have deadly results. We're not going to get rid of self-defense laws in this country so if you want to stop this from happening again you should work on getting rid of concealed carry laws.

 

[cstu]

Honest question from someone who hasn't followed the trial at all and has only a passing knowledge of the facts:

How does someone who is packing heat end up on the ground with punches being rained down on him by an unarmed 150 pound kid? Was this some sort of Cato-style sneak attack where Zimmerman didn't have an opportunity to pull his weapon and tell the kid to back the #### off?

It was dark, they did exchange words. From the trail an expert said TM threw the punch that broke GZ nose and GZ was stunned to the point that TM took advantage.

At that point GZ did not feel his life was in danger, so he never pulled his weapon. Which is the correct action.

People haven't heard the term 'sucker punch'?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Honest question from someone who hasn't followed the trial at all and has only a passing knowledge of the facts:

How does someone who is packing heat end up on the ground with punches being rained down on him by an unarmed 150 pound kid? Was this some sort of Cato-style sneak attack where Zimmerman didn't have an opportunity to pull his weapon and tell the kid to back the #### off?

It was dark, they did exchange words. From the trail an expert said TM threw the punch that broke GZ nose and GZ was stunned to the point that TM took advantage.

At that point GZ did not feel his life was in danger, so he never pulled his weapon. Which is the correct action.

Thanks, that makes sense.

 

[jamny]

Like I said yesterday, on the 911 call Zimmerman first said "he looks black" as if he wasn't really positive. Then later, once TM comes back towards his car, he is finally able to confirm that he is a "black male". That to me is proof that GZ wasn't profiling according to race but that he just thought the person looked like a suspicious punk.

Definitive proof that George Zimmerman isn't a racist. It's a good thing Tim left this thread when he did because it shows he's wrong and there would be no way for him to come back into this thread and dispute it.

 

[Joe McGee]

What could be suspicious about a 17 year teenager walking through people's yards looking inside their houses in the dark for 45 minutes with it raining outside wearing WHITE TENNIS SHOES as he walks through WET GRASS? Yeah, that seems totally normal.

WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE #######' SIDEWALK?

 

[TobiasFunke]

What could be suspicious about a 17 year teenager walking through people's yards looking inside their houses in the dark for 45 minutes with it raining outside wearing WHITE TENNIS SHOES as he walks through WET GRASS? Yeah, that seems totally normal.

WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE #######' SIDEWALK?

WHITE TENNIS SHOES, PEOPLE. WHITE. WET GRASS. CONNECT THE DOTS.

 

[Spanky267]

Was there any definitive word on why there were no black people on the jury? It seems that the jury was stacked against the Prosecution with all white female jurors. I am sure that the Prosecution did its best to include a black juror but there's got to be more surrounding this.

I understand that each side is allowed a certain number of 'removals'. Was the demographic of the region supplying the juror pool 90% white? It didn't seem that way based on the Z's small community.

The State removed a black juror because she said she watched Fox News.

She was probably removed because Zimmerman did an interview with Fox News prior to the trial.

 

[The Commish]

Where did the "looking in windows" come from?? Heard it in here a lot post trial.

 

[Rayderr]

wow