Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[renesauz]

Zimmerman claimed he was punched one time then had his head slammed to the sidewalk several times. One punch doesn't necessarily damage a hand, nor does slamming someone's head into the ground. The funeral director said nothing important but he too is getting his 15 minutes.

I really disagree with this. At the very least Martin would have bruises on his hands.

Not saying the funerals directors comments are irrelevant...but this is crap. A handful of punches don't necessarily lead to visibly bruised hands....and since he dies only SECONDS after the punches were thrown, the blood may not have had time to pool anyway, especially in the hands. IE: THE FUNERAL DIRECTOR WOULD NOT HAVE SEEN BRUISES EVEN IF THEY WOULD HAVE FORMED. He is NOT qualified to make the statement, and is getting his 15 minutes.

Still 2 pages behind and catching up, but what a %%^#&$%@ mess this is. The video of a pretty clean Zimmerman is troubling. I've gone from leaning toward guilt to leaning toward innocent to leaning toward guilt again. Still not 100% convinced of anything and I find the idea of a massive cover-up unlikely. I'm likeing incompetance on the part of the cops there though.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

It all makes sense now. Police can't really photograph injuries that aren't there.

I have to agree. But what about Chaos Commish's argument? If this is true, must we believe the police is lying, the fire department is lying, the witness named "John" is lying- how do you guys rectify all of this?

They must be cause CNN wouldn't lead us a stray...

 

[Addai's Adidas]

100 Pages!

 

[SacramentoBob]

Zimmerman claimed he was punched one time then had his head slammed to the sidewalk several times. One punch doesn't necessarily damage a hand, nor does slamming someone's head into the ground. The funeral director said nothing important but he too is getting his 15 minutes.

I really disagree with this. At the very least Martin would have bruises on his hands.

Not saying the funerals directors comments are irrelevant...but this is crap. A handful of punches don't necessarily lead to visibly bruised hands....and since he dies only SECONDS after the punches were thrown, the blood may not have had time to pool anyway, especially in the hands. IE: THE FUNERAL DIRECTOR WOULD NOT HAVE SEEN BRUISES EVEN IF THEY WOULD HAVE FORMED. He is NOT qualified to make the statement, and is getting his 15 minutes.

Still 2 pages behind and catching up, but what a %%^#&$%@ mess this is. The video of a pretty clean Zimmerman is troubling. I've gone from leaning toward guilt to leaning toward innocent to leaning toward guilt again. Still not 100% convinced of anything and I find the idea of a massive cover-up unlikely. I'm likeing incompetance on the part of the cops there though.

Not according to George Zimmerman.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

It all makes sense now. Police can't really photograph injuries that aren't there.

I have to agree. But what about Chaos Commish's argument? If this is true, must we believe the police is lying, the fire department is lying, the witness named "John" is lying- how do you guys rectify all of this?

Well we havent heard a word from any fire dept emergency personnel and i doubt we will.The cops are under investigation by the FBI for the way this and other cases have been handled.

Cant speak for john but all he said was one guy was on top of another guy and the guy on the bottom was screaming. That doesnt mean the guy on the bottom was getting his ### kicked . They could have been wrestling with no real punches being thrown or landed. Maybe they were fighting over the gun, that makes as much sense as anything, and it would explain the screaming, fear will cause that .

Finally you say something that I can agree with..

 

[renesauz]

The report says the officer said that Zimmerman's "back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass." No stain is mentioned.

So it's covered in grass but there's no grass stains? This is shtick, right? Gotta be shtick.

Grass stains come from sliding on wet grass...not rolling or laying on dry. IN the evening (no dew)...there would not likely be "stains" even if there were fresh clippings.Come on people....some are so fired up against Zimmerman that they're reaching illogical and unsupportable conclusions. WOrse...they stick to those conclusions even when a reasonable explanation is given why they might be wrong.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I am pretty sure the lead investigator does not have a law licence, so by what basis is he judging the legal defense of the case. He should not be stating legal opinions, all he is doing is making reckless statements which will make him look bad on the witness stand.. Everything out of his mouth shows a clear bias against Zimmerman, and his absolute statements are opinion and not fact. He looks extremely bias and unresonable.

Come on Jon, really??? He's the friggin lead investigator!! He's not a judge. If he thinks Zimmerman is guilty, then he's SUPPOSED to be biased against Zimmerman. And he's supposed to give his opinion. That's what lead investigators do.

I think this case has made a lot of people lose their ability to think rationally. I mean, are you kidding me?

How can he make absolute statements that so and so is lying and so and so has absolutely no defense. Obviously there are conflicting accounts, and the investigator can have an opinion, but his statements are absolutes. His superiors did not think the case was so cut and dry. The facts that are coming out do not seem so cut and dry. If there were injuries, why did he leave that detail out. The guy is a loose canon and it hurts his credibility whether you think so or not. An investigator should be seeking truth and not an agenda.

I'll make this prediction right now, the lead investigator will be a major stumbling block if this ever goes to court.

Investigators are trained to get answers, using whatever tactic needed... Just like police officers are extra nice when they question you.. Calm you down, get you on their buddy list, get you to incriminate yourself.. lol

 

[Slapdash]

Zimmerman's dad did an interview (will seek link) and provided some information. He claims his son's nose was in fact broken. He doesn't believe the girl friend's phone call ever happened and he thinks that will be proven. He said George walked all the way to the end of the side walk between the buildings to get out from behind the units and get an exact address for the police. At that point he turned back down the same sidewalk to go back to his truck. The altercation happened back down that sidewalk near the other end of the buildings.

This helps me with the time frame I've been struggling to understand, and it again suggests Trayvon didn't head straight home but also turned back or backtracked and met up with George on a route back to George's car. If this is true, it's pretty strong evidence that for some reason Martin forced the confrontation by actually following George. I expect that will get a reaction from some of you, but I'm confident this portion of the story will be verified. I feel that way because it was the only way I could account for the time given the phone call I listened to. It isn't the hardest thing to map out. If that's the case then the police know that Trayvon wasn't walking home and in fact was going back towards Zimmerman's car. I'm suggesting this is obvious enough to consider it one of the facts in the case preventing George from being arrested.

The father describes a very brief conversation different than the one the girlfriend claimed and Trayvon then attacked. Broke his nose. Mounted him. Slammed his head against the sidewalk. George struggled to get on the grass. Cried for help. It lasted over a minute, and George pulled his gun.

An article with direct quotes:

"After nearly a minute of being beaten, George was trying to get his head off the concrete, trying to move with Trayvon on him, in the grass. In doing so, his firearm was shown. Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, 'You're going to die now,' or 'You're going to die tonight' or something to that effect," Robert Zimmerman said.

Robert Zimmerman said Martin continued to beat his son, and George Zimmerman at some point pulled out his gun and "did what he did."

So do you think the girl is lying about having a call during this and ABCNews is lying about it being in the phone records?

Based on his comments in here, he doesn't want to believe the girl friend. He wants to believe Zimmerman.

It is clear to me that a lot of posters here think this way, at least he is honest about it.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Honest question: What is Zimmerman's motivation to kill Martin, if not in self defense?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I've gone back and forth over this. At first I thought Zimmerman was guilty because he initiated the contact, then I thought it might actually be self-defense because Trayvon was beating him against the sidewalk but now after seeing him look ok and not covered in blood I'm leaning to Zimmerman being so pissed off at this kid kicking his ### that he shot him in the heat of the moment out of anger.

Definitely a possibility.. But that wouldn't explain all the screams for help.. Screams right up to the gunshot..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Zimmerman's dad did an interview (will seek link) and provided some information. He claims his son's nose was in fact broken. He doesn't believe the girl friend's phone call ever happened and he thinks that will be proven. He said George walked all the way to the end of the side walk between the buildings to get out from behind the units and get an exact address for the police. At that point he turned back down the same sidewalk to go back to his truck. The altercation happened back down that sidewalk near the other end of the buildings.

This helps me with the time frame I've been struggling to understand, and it again suggests Trayvon didn't head straight home but also turned back or backtracked and met up with George on a route back to George's car. If this is true, it's pretty strong evidence that for some reason Martin forced the confrontation by actually following George. I expect that will get a reaction from some of you, but I'm confident this portion of the story will be verified. I feel that way because it was the only way I could account for the time given the phone call I listened to. It isn't the hardest thing to map out. If that's the case then the police know that Trayvon wasn't walking home and in fact was going back towards Zimmerman's car. I'm suggesting this is obvious enough to consider it one of the facts in the case preventing George from being arrested.

The father describes a very brief conversation different than the one the girlfriend claimed and Trayvon then attacked. Broke his nose. Mounted him. Slammed his head against the sidewalk. George struggled to get on the grass. Cried for help. It lasted over a minute, and George pulled his gun.

An article with direct quotes:

"After nearly a minute of being beaten, George was trying to get his head off the concrete, trying to move with Trayvon on him, in the grass. In doing so, his firearm was shown. Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of, 'You're going to die now,' or 'You're going to die tonight' or something to that effect," Robert Zimmerman said.

Robert Zimmerman said Martin continued to beat his son, and George Zimmerman at some point pulled out his gun and "did what he did."

Robert Zimmerman recounted the events of Feb. 26 as they were told to him by his 28-year-old son, claiming that the 17-year-old victim was responsible for the deadly confrontation

well thats it, case closed...boy do I feel stupid thinking zimmerman directly caused the death of trey.All we had to do was ask zimmerman SR.and this whole thread could have been advoided.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Honest question: What is Zimmerman's motivation to kill Martin, if not in self defense?

He's nucking futs.

OK. I get the over aggressive neighborhood watch guy, but are you saying he just decided to kill the kid? Or that he got too close and during the struggle killed him and should be jailed on involuntary manslaughter?

Sorry, was being flip.I think he created the situation because he's paranoid and delusional. Then he shot the kid because he got in over his head and believed he was dealing with a hardened gang banger instead of a kid going to the corner store for skittles and iced tea.

Gangbangers don't eat skittles, or drink Ice Tea? Or have little brothers? Why does this candy and drink keep getting brought up as if it is playing some key role in the case..

 

[Da Guru]

100!

Still has not peaked.....

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Honest question: What is Zimmerman's motivation to kill Martin, if not in self defense?

He's nucking futs.

OK. I get the over aggressive neighborhood watch guy, but are you saying he just decided to kill the kid? Or that he got too close and during the struggle killed him and should be jailed on involuntary manslaughter?

Sorry, was being flip.I think he created the situation because he's paranoid and delusional. Then he shot the kid because he got in over his head and believed he was dealing with a hardened gang banger instead of a kid going to the corner store for skittles and iced tea.

Gangbangers don't eat skittles, or drink Ice Tea? Or have little brothers? Why does this candy and drink keep getting brought up as if it is playing some key role in the case..

Why are you quoting and bumping all these posts from yesterday? You look like an attention whore at this point.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The report says the officer said that Zimmerman's "back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass." No stain is mentioned.

So it's covered in grass but there's no grass stains? This is shtick, right? Gotta be shtick.

Grass stains come from sliding on wet grass...not rolling or laying on dry. IN the evening (no dew)...there would not likely be "stains" even if there were fresh clippings.Come on people....some are so fired up against Zimmerman that they're reaching illogical and unsupportable conclusions. WOrse...they stick to those conclusions even when a reasonable explanation is given why they might be wrong.

And the people that are FOR zimmerman arent doing the same thing . We have actual video of the killer and not one sign of a struggle , yet people are still making excuses.This is an interesting experiment into the human psyche, people really do see what they want to no matter what .

 

[Carolina Hustler]

What i find funny is ive been saying since my first post, that zimmerman murdered treyvon martin and he didnt have to. Now that ive seen the arrest video im more convinced than ever that zimmerman has lied at every turn to save his ### from going to prison. If he WAS covered in blood and had a broken nose and the back of his head was as injured as he claimed, i would have said i was wrong . I would have said Treyvon was beating him and he shot trey in self defense. I still would say he inadvertanly caused it by following trey , but he shot trey in self defense. Why cant the defenders of zimmerman watch that video and say maybe zimmerman was lying and is full of crap. Its right there in color. Is it pride?

So you think it's murder because Zimmerman didn't bleed enough.

How much blood do you have to give up before you're allowed to defend yourself? And while your at it, please tell me how much blood I can give up before I pass out.. I need to know how big that self defense window is..

 

[renesauz]

But Zimmerman's previous arrests for violent crimes don't seem to matter.

They matter. I argued before that a single incident didn't, especially when it was a dropped domestic violence charge...but there's more than one.Unfortunately...the ones on the kid matter too. Not only is the kid NOT squeaky clean, but there's at least anecdoctal evidance that he might have a predisposition towards violence also.It's kind of a wash leaving us nowhere closer to the truth.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Honest question: What is Zimmerman's motivation to kill Martin, if not in self defense?

He's nucking futs.

OK. I get the over aggressive neighborhood watch guy, but are you saying he just decided to kill the kid? Or that he got too close and during the struggle killed him and should be jailed on involuntary manslaughter?

Sorry, was being flip.I think he created the situation because he's paranoid and delusional. Then he shot the kid because he got in over his head and believed he was dealing with a hardened gang banger instead of a kid going to the corner store for skittles and iced tea.

OK, fair enough. So is that what makes him racist? I mean, if it was a white or hispanic kid would he not have followed him or not have approached him or not have shot him?

He has 911 calls on kids of other ethnicity..

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Why are you quoting and bumping all these posts from yesterday? You look like an attention whore at this point.

HFS. Non stop.

 

[NCCommish]

http://media.cmgdigi...54b2855e904d640

Holy crap....not one drop of blood. Anywhere. Hes wearing a grey t shirt that could easily be have mistaken as a white t shirt . That unzipped red jacket comes off at anytime during the struggle then its a t shirt that women saw , not a grey hoodie.

1) It is a red jacket. Not sure blood would exactly stand out.2) You would have to ignore John's statement that the guy on the bottom was wearing red.

John! Forgot about John!They've shown that video about 20 times in the last half hour. There's no blood. There's no injury at all.

He was treated at the scene.

They also send him to the laundromat?

AND they healed any and all injuries. This is crazy that people dont even trust there own eyes ...wow. Is it THAT important to keep denying that the zimmerman was full of #### !!! So you want people to believe that the beating that trey was giving him, you know, the one that was so bad he had to kill his attacker,left NO bloodanywhere in sight...not even blood from shooting trey who was on top of him when he shot the gun...ya ok.

Again.. He was wearing a red Jacket, you can't get close enough to the jacket to see if there was blood on it.. And a bloody nose would have obviously been cleaned up at this point, and a broken nose is usually not disjointed unless it's severe.Also you have not seen Zimmermans report, so you don't know if he's telling the truth or not..

I could clearly see the back of his bald supposedly beaten into the concrete head really well. No signs of the beating. I could see his face well enough to not see the signs of a broken nose. And since I have seen noses bleed I would expect there to be blood, at least a little, down the front of his shirt. There was none. Further the investigator saw all this close up and suggested charges.

 

[FavreCo]

Are we there yet?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

What i find funny is ive been saying since my first post, that zimmerman murdered treyvon martin and he didnt have to. Now that ive seen the arrest video im more convinced than ever that zimmerman has lied at every turn to save his ### from going to prison. If he WAS covered in blood and had a broken nose and the back of his head was as injured as he claimed, i would have said i was wrong . I would have said Treyvon was beating him and he shot trey in self defense. I still would say he inadvertanly caused it by following trey , but he shot trey in self defense. Why cant the defenders of zimmerman watch that video and say maybe zimmerman was lying and is full of crap. Its right there in color. Is it pride?

So you think it's murder because Zimmerman didn't bleed enough.

ZIMMERMAN LIED ...period

You've never lied? (you have no proof that Zimmerman has) Are you a murderer?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I could clearly see the back of his bald supposedly beaten into the concrete head really well. No signs of the beating. I could see his face well enough to not see the signs of a broken nose. And since I have seen noses bleed I would expect there to be blood, at least a little, down the front of his shirt. There was none. Further the investigator saw all this close up and suggested charges.

And all that's rather obvious and elementary.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

And I honestly don't think that even if the SPD is as incompetent as people believe it to be lead investigators would be going around telling witnesses mothers "This is absolutely not self defense."

I agree with this....but you cant just discount what he said, whether he should have said it or not. After seeing that arrest video im sure that the lead investigator saw the same thing. If you have a guy saying what zimmerman said and then you dont see any real signs of a life and death struggle , no blood or wounds or torn clothes, then your going to have a lot of doubt hes telling the truth.

Again, he refused treatment. He did not claim to be beat up so badly he was not able to defend himself, as a result he went for the gun. What Zimmerman claims is that there was a struggle for the gun which was obviously life or death at that point. Why would the lack of evidence of blood everywhere make him less credible?I heard on other forums that the casing from the gun did not eject, jamming the gun. That means something was blocking the slide from racking and ejecting the casing and chambering another. That could mean the sign of two people struggling for the gun. Again, nothing offical there. Still searching for confirmation there.

Where are we getting that Zimmerman refused treatment. The police report states that "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD . . . . Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."

Refused treatment at a hospital. If I'm establishing a self defense case that I shot the kid because he was beating me senseless, I would be requesting photos and a trip to the hospital.

Why did he need to refuse treatment if there were no injuries to treat?

 

[pantagrapher]

And I honestly don't think that even if the SPD is as incompetent as people believe it to be lead investigators would be going around telling witnesses mothers "This is absolutely not self defense."

I agree with this....but you cant just discount what he said, whether he should have said it or not. After seeing that arrest video im sure that the lead investigator saw the same thing. If you have a guy saying what zimmerman said and then you dont see any real signs of a life and death struggle , no blood or wounds or torn clothes, then your going to have a lot of doubt hes telling the truth.

Again, he refused treatment. He did not claim to be beat up so badly he was not able to defend himself, as a result he went for the gun. What Zimmerman claims is that there was a struggle for the gun which was obviously life or death at that point. Why would the lack of evidence of blood everywhere make him less credible?I heard on other forums that the casing from the gun did not eject, jamming the gun. That means something was blocking the slide from racking and ejecting the casing and chambering another. That could mean the sign of two people struggling for the gun. Again, nothing offical there. Still searching for confirmation there.

Where are we getting that Zimmerman refused treatment. The police report states that "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD . . . . Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."

Refused treatment at a hospital. If I'm establishing a self defense case that I shot the kid because he was beating me senseless, I would be requesting photos and a trip to the hospital.

Why did he need to refuse treatment if there were no injuries to treat?

He didn't want to get sucked into a logic wormhole.

 

[SacramentoBob]

But Zimmerman's previous arrests for violent crimes don't seem to matter.

They matter. I argued before that a single incident didn't, especially when it was a dropped domestic violence charge...but there's more than one.Unfortunately...the ones on the kid matter too. Not only is the kid NOT squeaky clean, but there's at least anecdoctal evidance that he might have a predisposition towards violence also.

It's kind of a wash leaving us nowhere closer to the truth.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

What i find funny is ive been saying since my first post, that zimmerman murdered treyvon martin and he didnt have to. Now that ive seen the arrest video im more convinced than ever that zimmerman has lied at every turn to save his ### from going to prison. If he WAS covered in blood and had a broken nose and the back of his head was as injured as he claimed, i would have said i was wrong . I would have said Treyvon was beating him and he shot trey in self defense. I still would say he inadvertanly caused it by following trey , but he shot trey in self defense. Why cant the defenders of zimmerman watch that video and say maybe zimmerman was lying and is full of crap. Its right there in color. Is it pride?

So you think it's murder because Zimmerman didn't bleed enough.

ZIMMERMAN LIED ...period

About what?

Newly released video of George Zimmerman at the Sanford Police Department the night he shot Trayvon Martin to death show the neighborhood watch volunteer without blood on his clothing or bruises on his face or head. His clean-shaven picture seems to contrast with the violent beating he told police he endured at the hands of Martin, 17, who Zimmerman said attacked him from behind.The video, obtained by ABC News, appears inconsistent with Zimmerman’s recently leaked statement to police that he was in a death struggle with Martin before Zimmerman shot him in the chest in self-defense. Zimmerman told investigators that Martin jumped him from behind, punched him in the nose and pounded his head into a sidewalk, according to a police report first described by the Orlando Sentinal.

Zimmerman told police he got out of his vehicle to follow Martin, but lost sight of him. As he walked back to his vehicle, Martin attacked him from behind, punched him in the nose, knocked him down and began smashing the back of his head into the sidewalk, police reports say Zimmerman told officers. During the tussle, Zimmerman pulled the 9 mm handgun he carried and shot Martin in the chest, he told police.

Sensationalist writing doesn't prove anything..

 

[culdeus]

who is carolina hustler? Is this a lhucks alias?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Is it true there's a 'first' police report that makes no mention of any injuries? And that the injuries appeared only on a second report?

As per Tim's version of what he saw last night on CNN through the bottom of a Heineken bottle...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

NEW NEWS

The funeral director who handled Martin's funeral said there were no cuts or bruises on the teen's hands that would suggest a violent struggle or fight.

“I didn’t see any evidence he had been fighting anybody,” Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale, told television talk show host Nancy Grace.

I'll take the coroners word over the families funeral director (who is not a medical examiner)..

 

[BigSteelThrill]

who is carolina hustler? Is this a lhucks alias?

He has a second browser open and is just replying from everything from yesterday evening.Its a SPAM fest at this point.

 

[Slapdash]

who is carolina hustler? Is this a lhucks alias?

He's a shark pool dude.

 

[culdeus]

who is carolina hustler? Is this a lhucks alias?

He has a second browser open and is just replying from everything from yesterday evening.Its a SPAM fest at this point.

I reported him. No idea if that will do anything.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

who is carolina hustler? Is this a lhucks alias?

He's a shark pool dude turd.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

NEW NEWS

The funeral director who handled Martin's funeral said there were no cuts or bruises on the teen's hands that would suggest a violent struggle or fight.

“I didn’t see any evidence he had been fighting anybody,” Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale, told television talk show host Nancy Grace.

Straight up murder.

"If there ain't no hand bruises, then Zimmerman's attorney loses"

 

[Carolina Hustler]

And I honestly don't think that even if the SPD is as incompetent as people believe it to be lead investigators would be going around telling witnesses mothers "This is absolutely not self defense."

I agree with this....but you cant just discount what he said, whether he should have said it or not. After seeing that arrest video im sure that the lead investigator saw the same thing. If you have a guy saying what zimmerman said and then you dont see any real signs of a life and death struggle , no blood or wounds or torn clothes, then your going to have a lot of doubt hes telling the truth.

Again, he refused treatment. He did not claim to be beat up so badly he was not able to defend himself, as a result he went for the gun. What Zimmerman claims is that there was a struggle for the gun which was obviously life or death at that point. Why would the lack of evidence of blood everywhere make him less credible?I heard on other forums that the casing from the gun did not eject, jamming the gun. That means something was blocking the slide from racking and ejecting the casing and chambering another. That could mean the sign of two people struggling for the gun. Again, nothing offical there. Still searching for confirmation there.

Where are we getting that Zimmerman refused treatment. The police report states that "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD . . . . Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."

Refused treatment at a hospital. If I'm establishing a self defense case that I shot the kid because he was beating me senseless, I would be requesting photos and a trip to the hospital.

Actually if you were claiming to have been beaten senseless then the smart move would be to refuse treatment since that's what senseless people do.

lol

 

[renesauz]

The report says the officer said that Zimmerman's "back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass." No stain is mentioned.

So it's covered in grass but there's no grass stains? This is shtick, right? Gotta be shtick.

Grass stains come from sliding on wet grass...not rolling or laying on dry. IN the evening (no dew)...there would not likely be "stains" even if there were fresh clippings.Come on people....some are so fired up against Zimmerman that they're reaching illogical and unsupportable conclusions. WOrse...they stick to those conclusions even when a reasonable explanation is given why they might be wrong.

And the people that are FOR zimmerman arent doing the same thing . We have actual video of the killer and not one sign of a struggle , yet people are still making excuses.This is an interesting experiment into the human psyche, people really do see what they want to no matter what .

Some are, but not many. I think the point is that too many people argue their conclusion as fact, even when an alternate, reasonable explanation exists. Many of the anti-Zimmerman crowd have done this. On reflection...I shouldn't be surprised by that. There's more emotion in the anti-Zimmerman crowd. Emotion can cloud reason. I'm not saying their arguments have been unreasonable, because they are (usually) reasonable...but the inability to fairly consider the counter argument is interesting.Several times in here I have acknowledged good points against Zimmerman, and even stated my belief in his guilt.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Here's a question for people who know about guns (I don't.): Zimmerman's gun was a 9mm. Now if you are in a physical wrestle with another person, close enough to each other so that you or he can throw punches, and you fire a gun into his chest, wouldn't his blood drape all around you? Your hands, face, clothes, etc? I"m not trying to make any argument here, I honestly don't know the answer. Also, can ballistics tell us how far away the gun fired from the victim? Because that would tell us a lot.

powder burn around the wound would tell how far away.. And I've seen animals killed and bleed very little, I've also seen some pour blood.. each case is different..

 

[VA703]

such a tragic story

 

[Carolina Hustler]

NEW NEWS

The funeral director who handled Martin's funeral said there were no cuts or bruises on the teen's hands that would suggest a violent struggle or fight.

"I didn't see any evidence he had been fighting anybody," Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale, told television talk show host Nancy Grace.

Straight up murder.

IF there is any way to prove this in a court of law, then I would vote to convict Zimmerman. Absolutely.But- can it be proved?

You don't have to have bruises on your hands to fight over a gun.. And punching someone is going to cause hand bruises and cuts sometimes, but sometimes it isn't.. That proves nothing..

 

[timschochet]

Last night I listed 4 pieces of new information which, if any or all prove to be true, should firm up some of the uncertainty that many of us have about this case:

1. The lead investigator's affidavit that he did not believe Zimmerman's story and that Zimmerman should have been arrested.

2. The mother of the 13 year old witness stating that her son did not see red on the ground (as was previously indicated) but was manipulated to say that by the police, that her son is sure it was Trayvon screaming, and that the lead investigator implied to her that Zimmerman was guilty.

3. The video of Zimmerman arriving at the police station with no sign of blood, grass stains or injury.

4. The funeral director for Trayvon Martin stating that there was no sign of physical struggle on Travyon's body.

All of these items have been attacked and discounted by those in this thread who have chosen from the start of the discussion to defend Zimmerman's explanation of events. And there's nothing wrong with that, because none of them are provable in themselves, and in order to accept the results of any of them, you're going to have to believe some pretty rotten things about the police department- either they conspired to lie about this (unlikely) or they completely screwed this up (more likely, but doesn't explain everything) or they screwed up and then conspired to cover-up their screw up (most likely, and unlike most of the conspiracy theories that I'm usually skeptical of, actually happens a lot). It's easy to resist accepting any of these things.

So I don't blame Chaos Commish, Carolina Hustler, renesauz, et al. for being skeptical about all of this- there's much to be skeptical about. But I do wonder about the eagerness to accept the testimony of Zimmerman's dad.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

What i find funny is ive been saying since my first post, that zimmerman murdered treyvon martin and he didnt have to. Now that ive seen the arrest video im more convinced than ever that zimmerman has lied at every turn to save his ### from going to prison. If he WAS covered in blood and had a broken nose and the back of his head was as injured as he claimed, i would have said i was wrong . I would have said Treyvon was beating him and he shot trey in self defense. I still would say he inadvertanly caused it by following trey , but he shot trey in self defense. Why cant the defenders of zimmerman watch that video and say maybe zimmerman was lying and is full of crap. Its right there in color. Is it pride?

So you think it's murder because Zimmerman didn't bleed enough.

ZIMMERMAN LIED ...period

About what?

so the answer to my question is PRIDE...got it.

Quit this bull####. It's possible Zimmerman murdered Martin in cold blood. That doesn't mean that's what happened.

what bull councilor? the man lied, and as a lawyer you should know that thats a big no -no

What did he lie about again? #1, you haven't proven that there were no injuries

#2, you haven't proven that Zimmerman said there were

#3, Why would someone need to refuse treatment for something that didn't seem to need treatment?

 

[jon_mx]

who is carolina hustler? Is this a lhucks alias?

He has a second browser open and is just replying from everything from yesterday evening.Its a SPAM fest at this point.

I reported him. No idea if that will do anything.

Reported? For what, not going along with the lynching?

 

[jomar]

The report says the officer said that Zimmerman's "back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass." No stain is mentioned.

So it's covered in grass but there's no grass stains? This is shtick, right? Gotta be shtick.

Grass stains come from sliding on wet grass...not rolling or laying on dry. IN the evening (no dew)...there would not likely be "stains" even if there were fresh clippings.Come on people....some are so fired up against Zimmerman that they're reaching illogical and unsupportable conclusions. WOrse...they stick to those conclusions even when a reasonable explanation is given why they might be wrong.

It was raining that night. I doubt there was any dry grass for him to be laying or rolling on. I didn't see any sign of mud, dirt, even a wet spot, on his jacket or any of his clothes. strange....

 

[jomar]

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: Carolina Hustler.

Pretty happy I don't have to see all of this crap

 

[Yenrub]

And I honestly don't think that even if the SPD is as incompetent as people believe it to be lead investigators would be going around telling witnesses mothers "This is absolutely not self defense."

I agree with this....but you cant just discount what he said, whether he should have said it or not. After seeing that arrest video im sure that the lead investigator saw the same thing. If you have a guy saying what zimmerman said and then you dont see any real signs of a life and death struggle , no blood or wounds or torn clothes, then your going to have a lot of doubt hes telling the truth.

Again, he refused treatment. He did not claim to be beat up so badly he was not able to defend himself, as a result he went for the gun. What Zimmerman claims is that there was a struggle for the gun which was obviously life or death at that point. Why would the lack of evidence of blood everywhere make him less credible?I heard on other forums that the casing from the gun did not eject, jamming the gun. That means something was blocking the slide from racking and ejecting the casing and chambering another. That could mean the sign of two people struggling for the gun. Again, nothing offical there. Still searching for confirmation there.

Where are we getting that Zimmerman refused treatment. The police report states that "Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD . . . . Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department."

Refused treatment at a hospital. If I'm establishing a self defense case that I shot the kid because he was beating me senseless, I would be requesting photos and a trip to the hospital.

Why did he need to refuse treatment if there were no injuries to treat?

If he wasn’t being injured why did he need to pull the gun?

 

[renesauz]

Last night I listed 4 pieces of new information which, if any or all prove to be true, should firm up some of the uncertainty that many of us have about this case:1. The lead investigator's affidavit that he did not believe Zimmerman's story and that Zimmerman should have been arrested.2. The mother of the 13 year old witness stating that her son did not see red on the ground (as was previously indicated) but was manipulated to say that by the police, that her son is sure it was Trayvon screaming, and that the lead investigator implied to her that Zimmerman was guilty.3. The video of Zimmerman arriving at the police station with no sign of blood, grass stains or injury.4. The funeral director for Trayvon Martin stating that there was no sign of physical struggle on Travyon's body.All of these items have been attacked and discounted by those in this thread who have chosen from the start of the discussion to defend Zimmerman's explanation of events. And there's nothing wrong with that, because none of them are provable in themselves, and in order to accept the results of any of them, you're going to have to believe some pretty rotten things about the police department- either they conspired to lie about this (unlikely) or they completely screwed this up (more likely, but doesn't explain everything) or they screwed up and then conspired to cover-up their screw up (most likely, and unlike most of the conspiracy theories that I'm usually skeptical of, actually happens a lot). It's easy to resist accepting any of these things.So I don't blame Chaos Commish, Carolina Hustler, renesauz, et al. for being skeptical about all of this- there's much to be skeptical about. But I do wonder about the eagerness to accept the testimony of Zimmerman's dad.

I don't give Zimmerman's dad any credence at all when it comes to specific events. HIs insight on family history is credible though, suggesting how unlikely it was that this was racially motivated, especially when backed up by interviews around the neighborhood.There are posters on both sides who've taken a hard line stance and fought every ounce of info from the other side, including you (at times). Christo has played devila advocate from the start, and pointed out flaws. He's never wavered mostly (I presume) because the mob mentality against Zimmerman is frightening, and it's dangerous.There are numerous "facts" and witness statements from both sides that seem cloudy to me. There's too many people too anxious to string this guy up without carefully considering every possible counter-argument...that's why I've argued (at times loudly) some of those counters. I pointed out why the lack of grass stains is no proof at all, and why we should ignore most of what the funeral director says. At this point...the story simply doesn't add up...neither version of the story. I don't think we can blame those in ZImmerman's camp from trusting his version better, because the police and DA have bveen unable (to this point) to put enough of a case together to disprove him. That is every bit as telling as the points you've noted above, perhaps even more so, unless you 100% buy into a conspiracy and cover up.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Reported? For what, not going along with the lynching?

Has nothing to do with the subject matter at hand. He enjoys being an annoyance, for the attention it brings, just as he does in the shark pool.

 

[ArbyMelt]

I could clearly see the back of his bald supposedly beaten into the concrete head really well. No signs of the beating. I could see his face well enough to not see the signs of a broken nose. And since I have seen noses bleed I would expect there to be blood, at least a little, down the front of his shirt. There was none. Further the investigator saw all this close up and suggested charges.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/

 

[timschochet]

I don't get the anger against Carolina Hustler. Why report him, or place him on ignore? He is simply stating his view of events here, and making decent arguments along the way. I can't say I agree with him, but I appreciate his effort. Anyone who makes me think is worth the effort of reading and responding to.