Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (4 Viewers)

[renesauz]

Wow this is frustrating. So...y'all still FIRMLY believe this kid was an innocent angel?

I was IN NO WAY suggesting this kid was trash. I'm saying that his past ruins the perception of an angel incapable of doing wrong, as was clearly implied in all the earliest reports. Quit reading more into my statements than is there.

there's that word 'clearly' again. I don't remember the perception of an angel incapable of doing wrong. what I do recall was an unarmed kid minding his own business being followed and then shot dead. I don't care if he was dealing MJ on the side, or spray painted his initials on a school wall, or even if he stole some jewelry as you implied. in this instance, he was walking home from a store doing nothing wrong and an over-zealous wanna-be cop followed him with a gun and ended up shooting him. and the guy wasn't even arrested and the cops didn't even try to notify the kids parents. I don't care that the media didn't start trashing the kid the day after he was killed for this stupid stuff when it doesn't matter.

The fact that he likely had stolen jewelry backs up Zimmerman's case that he was suspiciously checking out houses.

no, the fact that he MAY have had stolen jewelry (months?) before innocently walking home from a store does not back up Z's case that he was suspiciously checking out houses. if Z caught him looking in windows or something, maybe. but this kid was just walking down the street and Z found him suspicious for what exactly?

THIS IS STILL ASSUMED. We don't KNOW that's all the teen was doing. And this original assumption was based primarily on the report that he was an angel who was never in any trouble. It could be true....but it is a bad assumption.

 

[NCCommish]

Zimmerman's dad: "I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, the NAACP, everyone".Say what???

If that's a direct quote, it sure is interesting that he singles out the President and the NAACP from everyone else.

Don't forget the Congressional Black Caucus. The exact quote was:"I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, The Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP... Every organization imaginable is trying to get notoriety from this or profit in some way."http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/29/454729/robert-zimmerman-obama/?mobile=nc

Where's the hate again:

Question: Mr. President, may I ask you about this current case in Florida, very controversial, allegations of lingering racism within our society — the so-called do not — I’m sorry — Stand Your Ground law and the justice in that? Can you comment on the Trayvon Martin case, sir? THE PRESIDENT: Well, I’m the head of the executive branch, and the Attorney General reports to me so I’ve got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we’re not impairing any investigation that’s taking place right now.But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together — federal, state and local — to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.So I’m glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what’s taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.Thank you.

 

[renesauz]

Wow this is frustrating. So...y'all still FIRMLY believe this kid was an innocent angel?

I was IN NO WAY suggesting this kid was trash. I'm saying that his past ruins the perception of an angel incapable of doing wrong, as was clearly implied in all the earliest reports. Quit reading more into my statements than is there.

there's that word 'clearly' again. I don't remember the perception of an angel incapable of doing wrong. what I do recall was an unarmed kid minding his own business being followed and then shot dead. I don't care if he was dealing MJ on the side, or spray painted his initials on a school wall, or even if he stole some jewelry as you implied. in this instance, he was walking home from a store doing nothing wrong and an over-zealous wanna-be cop followed him with a gun and ended up shooting him. and the guy wasn't even arrested and the cops didn't even try to notify the kids parents. I don't care that the media didn't start trashing the kid the day after he was killed for this stupid stuff when it doesn't matter.

The fact that he likely had stolen jewelry backs up Zimmerman's case that he was suspiciously checking out houses.

Well as long as we are covering the past:

George Zimmerman lost job as party security guard for being too aggressive, ex-co-worker says

George Zimmerman was fired from his job as an under-the-table security guard for "being too aggressive," a former co-worker told the Daily News.

Zimmerman, at the center of a firestorm for shooting an unarmed black teenager a month ago, worked for two different agencies providing security to illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, the former co-worker said.

"Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us," he said. "But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped."

The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005.

"He had a temper and he became a liability," the man said. "One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted," he said. "It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out."

The year 2005 was a bad one for Zimmerman: he was arrested for fighting with a cop trying to arrest his friend for underage drinking, and he and his ex-fiancée took out protective orders against each other.

The former co-worker, who is no longer in touch with Zimmerman, said he was shocked to hear what happened Feb. 26 in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.

"He definitely loved being in charge. He loved the power. Still, I could never see him killing someone. Never," he said.

NY Daily News

Yeah, but Trayvon was a stoner. WASH!

Not you too!? I neer saw this report before...kind of confirms the suspicion that Zimmerman's a hothead.

 

[timschochet]

Wow this is frustrating. So...y'all still FIRMLY believe this kid was an innocent angel?

I was IN NO WAY suggesting this kid was trash. I'm saying that his past ruins the perception of an angel incapable of doing wrong, as was clearly implied in all the earliest reports. Quit reading more into my statements than is there.

there's that word 'clearly' again. I don't remember the perception of an angel incapable of doing wrong. what I do recall was an unarmed kid minding his own business being followed and then shot dead. I don't care if he was dealing MJ on the side, or spray painted his initials on a school wall, or even if he stole some jewelry as you implied. in this instance, he was walking home from a store doing nothing wrong and an over-zealous wanna-be cop followed him with a gun and ended up shooting him. and the guy wasn't even arrested and the cops didn't even try to notify the kids parents. I don't care that the media didn't start trashing the kid the day after he was killed for this stupid stuff when it doesn't matter.

The fact that he likely had stolen jewelry backs up Zimmerman's case that he was suspiciously checking out houses.

Well as long as we are covering the past:

George Zimmerman lost job as party security guard for being too aggressive, ex-co-worker says

George Zimmerman was fired from his job as an under-the-table security guard for "being too aggressive," a former co-worker told the Daily News.

Zimmerman, at the center of a firestorm for shooting an unarmed black teenager a month ago, worked for two different agencies providing security to illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, the former co-worker said.

"Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us," he said. "But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped."

The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005.

"He had a temper and he became a liability," the man said. "One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted," he said. "It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out."

The year 2005 was a bad one for Zimmerman: he was arrested for fighting with a cop trying to arrest his friend for underage drinking, and he and his ex-fiancée took out protective orders against each other.

The former co-worker, who is no longer in touch with Zimmerman, said he was shocked to hear what happened Feb. 26 in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.

"He definitely loved being in charge. He loved the power. Still, I could never see him killing someone. Never," he said.

NY Daily News

Yeah, but Trayvon was a stoner. WASH!

Not you too!? I neer saw this report before...kind of confirms the suspicion that Zimmerman's a hothead.

Just having fun with you renesauz. I do think, though, that the attacks on Trayvon Martin's character are slimy. It would be one thing if somebody could link him to violence of some sort- that might help us give more credibility to Zimmerman's amazing story. But smoking pot? Graffiti? "Suspicious" jewelry? It stinks. It's not a wash, it's not even on the same planet as beating up police officers and your girlfriend.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Question, if the gun was fired during a struggle and in close proximity, shouldn't Trayvon's blood be on Zimmerman?

Zimmerman's brother sounded unconvincing to me last night.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Wow this is frustrating. So...y'all still FIRMLY believe this kid was an innocent angel?

I was IN NO WAY suggesting this kid was trash. I'm saying that his past ruins the perception of an angel incapable of doing wrong, as was clearly implied in all the earliest reports. Quit reading more into my statements than is there.

there's that word 'clearly' again. I don't remember the perception of an angel incapable of doing wrong. what I do recall was an unarmed kid minding his own business being followed and then shot dead. I don't care if he was dealing MJ on the side, or spray painted his initials on a school wall, or even if he stole some jewelry as you implied. in this instance, he was walking home from a store doing nothing wrong and an over-zealous wanna-be cop followed him with a gun and ended up shooting him. and the guy wasn't even arrested and the cops didn't even try to notify the kids parents. I don't care that the media didn't start trashing the kid the day after he was killed for this stupid stuff when it doesn't matter.

The fact that he likely had stolen jewelry backs up Zimmerman's case that he was suspiciously checking out houses.

Well as long as we are covering the past:

George Zimmerman lost job as party security guard for being too aggressive, ex-co-worker says

George Zimmerman was fired from his job as an under-the-table security guard for “being too aggressive,” a former co-worker told the Daily News.

Zimmerman, at the center of a firestorm for shooting an unarmed black teenager a month ago, worked for two different agencies providing security to illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, the former co-worker said.

“Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us,” he said. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.”

The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005.

“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the man said. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

The year 2005 was a bad one for Zimmerman: he was arrested for fighting with a cop trying to arrest his friend for underage drinking, and he and his ex-fiancée took out protective orders against each other.

The former co-worker, who is no longer in touch with Zimmerman, said he was shocked to hear what happened Feb. 26 in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.

“He definitely loved being in charge. He loved the power. Still, I could never see him killing someone. Never,” he said.

NY Daily News

This doesn't prove he was violent.Signed,

renesauz

 

[timschochet]

Question, if the gun was fired during a struggle and in close proximity, shouldn't Trayvon's blood be on Zimmerman?Zimmerman's brother sounded unconvincing to me last night.

I asked this exact question a few nights ago. But someone (I can't remember who) posted that unless you hit an artery, blood doesn't splash out in real life like it does on TV, even at close range. I have no idea if this is true.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Question, if the gun was fired during a struggle and in close proximity, shouldn't Trayvon's blood be on Zimmerman?Zimmerman's brother sounded unconvincing to me last night.

I asked this exact question a few nights ago. But someone (I can't remember who) posted that unless you hit an artery, blood doesn't splash out in real life like it does on TV, even at close range. I have no idea if this is true.

I guess we need a forensics report on his clothes. And he was killed by a single shot to the chest, so it had to have hit something . . . .

 

[renesauz]

This doesn't prove he was violent.Signed, renesauz

Unlike some others, I have adjusted my beliefs when new info has come up.

 

[ATC1]

Wow this is frustrating. So...y'all still FIRMLY believe this kid was an innocent angel?

I was IN NO WAY suggesting this kid was trash. I'm saying that his past ruins the perception of an angel incapable of doing wrong, as was clearly implied in all the earliest reports. Quit reading more into my statements than is there.

there's that word 'clearly' again. I don't remember the perception of an angel incapable of doing wrong. what I do recall was an unarmed kid minding his own business being followed and then shot dead. I don't care if he was dealing MJ on the side, or spray painted his initials on a school wall, or even if he stole some jewelry as you implied. in this instance, he was walking home from a store doing nothing wrong and an over-zealous wanna-be cop followed him with a gun and ended up shooting him. and the guy wasn't even arrested and the cops didn't even try to notify the kids parents. I don't care that the media didn't start trashing the kid the day after he was killed for this stupid stuff when it doesn't matter.

The fact that he likely had stolen jewelry backs up Zimmerman's case that he was suspiciously checking out houses.

Well as long as we are covering the past:

George Zimmerman lost job as party security guard for being too aggressive, ex-co-worker says

George Zimmerman was fired from his job as an under-the-table security guard for "being too aggressive," a former co-worker told the Daily News.

Zimmerman, at the center of a firestorm for shooting an unarmed black teenager a month ago, worked for two different agencies providing security to illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, the former co-worker said.

"Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us," he said. "But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped."

The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005.

"He had a temper and he became a liability," the man said. "One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted," he said. "It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out."

The year 2005 was a bad one for Zimmerman: he was arrested for fighting with a cop trying to arrest his friend for underage drinking, and he and his ex-fiancée took out protective orders against each other.

The former co-worker, who is no longer in touch with Zimmerman, said he was shocked to hear what happened Feb. 26 in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.

"He definitely loved being in charge. He loved the power. Still, I could never see him killing someone. Never," he said.

NY Daily News

Yeah, but Trayvon was a stoner. WASH!

Not you too!? I neer saw this report before...kind of confirms the suspicion that Zimmerman's a hothead.

Just having fun with you renesauz. I do think, though, that the attacks on Trayvon Martin's character are slimy. It would be one thing if somebody could link him to violence of some sort- that might help us give more credibility to Zimmerman's amazing story. But smoking pot? Graffiti? "Suspicious" jewelry? It stinks. It's not a wash, it's not even on the same planet as beating up police officers and your girlfriend.

Swinging at a bus driver down? If I'm Zimmerman, I'm thinking I want to be arrested right now to get this process started instead of the increase in uproar, lawyers being lawyers and media spin. Does anyone really think if the new witness' interview on CNN would hold up as testimony in court? It can be spun to help Zimmerman by the right lawyer, the right questioning, etc. I doubt we ever find the real truth, so we will continue to look back on the past history of the two people involved to fill in the blanks.

 

[ATC1]

Question, if the gun was fired during a struggle and in close proximity, shouldn't Trayvon's blood be on Zimmerman?Zimmerman's brother sounded unconvincing to me last night.

I asked this exact question a few nights ago. But someone (I can't remember who) posted that unless you hit an artery, blood doesn't splash out in real life like it does on TV, even at close range. I have no idea if this is true.

That was me. I am not a cop, but have seen pictures of someone being shot in a self defense class. All I saw was the hole and blood trickled down. That was bare skin. If you are wearing cloth (hoodie) it wouldn't just splatter.ETA: I'm sure there are videos or articles out there on the matter. I'm not going to look it up during work though.

 

[timschochet]

Swinging at a bus driver down?

I haven't heard that. Do you have a link? If true, it's the first thing I've heard that I would consider relevant (probably not legally, but at least for the purposes of this discussion.)

 

[timschochet]

Question, if the gun was fired during a struggle and in close proximity, shouldn't Trayvon's blood be on Zimmerman?Zimmerman's brother sounded unconvincing to me last night.

I asked this exact question a few nights ago. But someone (I can't remember who) posted that unless you hit an artery, blood doesn't splash out in real life like it does on TV, even at close range. I have no idea if this is true.

That was me. I am not a cop, but have seen pictures of someone being shot in a self defense class. All I saw was the hole and blood trickled down. That was bare skin. If you are wearing cloth (hoodie) it wouldn't just splatter.ETA: I'm sure there are videos or articles out there on the matter. I'm not going to look it up during work though.

How do you respond to Leroy Hoard's argument that if the single bullet killed Martin, then it would have had to hit "something" (I presume he means an artery.) me

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I can't really imagine a scenario where a fight is taking place on the ground, and a grown man, while maybe getting the worse of the fight, will start screaming like a teenage boy yelling for help.

However, I can imagine a teenage boy screaming for help while staring at a gun being pointed at him.

Proof the shot was not fired the instant Zimmerman took it out of the holster....or the instant he gained control of it in a struggle? This would be huge.If there is no evidence of blood. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman for the sole purpose of trying to gain control of the gun that Zimmerman pulled. If Zimmerman gets control of the gun and there is enough time for Martin to scream help and noooo for as long as the witnesses say they heard a cry for help, then Zimmerman should be in jail for a long time.

Still not jumping to any conclusions.

As to the new witness. Can we really take a "New" witness at this time that comes on a TV show. He heard 2 shots fired? There is still only proof that there was only one, right?

hes not a new witness to the police, hes a new witness to the public.Hes staying anonymous so hes not looking for his 15 minutes of fame. He said he heard what sounded like 2 fast pops, he said it could have been an echo.here , listen for yourself...

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-witness-breaks-silence/?hpt=ac_t1

He's not looking for his 15 minutes but he appears on CNN?

anonymously

Right. So he's not looking for fame, just a buck. Upstanding fellow.

proof or a link please.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Swinging at a bus driver down?

I haven't heard that. Do you have a link? If true, it's the first thing I've heard that I would consider relevant (probably not legally, but at least for the purposes of this discussion.)

Are you really incapable of ever doing your own searches? Anwyays, seems to be true as a rumor. Much like some of the other stuff there isn't any definitive proof as of yet:http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/trayvon-martin-s-ten-day-suspension

 

[StrikeS2k]

I can't really imagine a scenario where a fight is taking place on the ground, and a grown man, while maybe getting the worse of the fight, will start screaming like a teenage boy yelling for help.

However, I can imagine a teenage boy screaming for help while staring at a gun being pointed at him.

Proof the shot was not fired the instant Zimmerman took it out of the holster....or the instant he gained control of it in a struggle? This would be huge.If there is no evidence of blood. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman for the sole purpose of trying to gain control of the gun that Zimmerman pulled. If Zimmerman gets control of the gun and there is enough time for Martin to scream help and noooo for as long as the witnesses say they heard a cry for help, then Zimmerman should be in jail for a long time.

Still not jumping to any conclusions.

As to the new witness. Can we really take a "New" witness at this time that comes on a TV show. He heard 2 shots fired? There is still only proof that there was only one, right?

hes not a new witness to the police, hes a new witness to the public.Hes staying anonymous so hes not looking for his 15 minutes of fame. He said he heard what sounded like 2 fast pops, he said it could have been an echo.here , listen for yourself...

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-witness-breaks-silence/?hpt=ac_t1

He's not looking for his 15 minutes but he appears on CNN?

anonymously

Right. So he's not looking for fame, just a buck. Upstanding fellow.

proof or a link please.

Why? 95% of this thread is speculation. Seems reasonable to assume that if someone didn't want attention or fame, they wouldn't go on national TV without a good reason, and green is a pretty good reason.

 

[Clifford]

Zimmerman's dad needs to ####. First "my son can't be racist. He's Latino!" gem and now he can't understand why his son is the object of hate? He shot an unarmed kid that he thought was suspicious for no reason at all. Get real dad, your sons a freaking racist psycho.

And Trayvon did not have to be an angel. Zimmerman made all the mistakes here:

Believing he was a cop when he wasn't

Carrying while serving as watch captain

Targeting someone based on their appearance alone

Engaging when told not to by both watch standards and police at the time

Regardless of what happened after this, Zimmerman is ultimately responsible for all of the above that ultimately led to an unarmed kid being shot dead. I really don't think he should be absolved of the responsibility for creating this situation regardless of the vague, poorly worded stand your ground law.

 

[Clinton]

Zimmerman's dad: "I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, the NAACP, everyone".

Say what???

If that's a direct quote, it sure is interesting that he singles out the President and the NAACP from everyone else.

Don't forget the Congressional Black Caucus. The exact quote was:

"I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, The Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP... Every organization imaginable is trying to get notoriety from this or profit in some way."

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/29/454729/robert-zimmerman-obama/?mobile=nc

Where's the hate again:

Question: Mr. President, may I ask you about this current case in Florida, very controversial, allegations of lingering racism within our society — the so-called do not — I’m sorry — Stand Your Ground law and the justice in that? Can you comment on the Trayvon Martin case, sir?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I’m the head of the executive branch, and the Attorney General reports to me so I’ve got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we’re not impairing any investigation that’s taking place right now.

But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together — federal, state and local — to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

So I’m glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what’s taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.

But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.

Thank you.

Yeah, I don't really see hate either. I think it's a parent getting defensive and protecting their child.I will say, though, that I find it exceptionally interesting that Obama interjected in the Louis Gates matter, a local matter he didn't need to interject himself into, and was partial toward the black "victim". Here, Obama is once again weighing in on the Trayvon matter and is appearing more sympathetic to one side and saying that we need to give this matter the "seriousness it deserves". Yet, over the course of the past couple years when there have been many well-documented black mob attacks on white and Asian victims (notably the Wisconsin Fair incident where hunderedd of young black men attacked innocent white people), Obama did not say a word. These attacks apparently did not deserve Obama's seriousness.

I'm not the only one who has noticed this interesting inconsistency Obama has in addressing matters involving race.Some Brits are in a twit over it.

 

[NCCommish]

Swinging at a bus driver down?

I haven't heard that. Do you have a link? If true, it's the first thing I've heard that I would consider relevant (probably not legally, but at least for the purposes of this discussion.)

Are you really incapable of ever doing your own searches? Anwyays, seems to be true as a rumor. Much like some of the other stuff there isn't any definitive proof as of yet:http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/trayvon-martin-s-ten-day-suspension

The Florida Sun-Sentinel reported today, March 26th, that Trayvon's ten day suspension was related to marijuana. This, and a cryptic comment by his father that was quoted in the above Kansas City Star article, suggest he was caught smoking marijuana on school property.

 

[ATC1]

Question, if the gun was fired during a struggle and in close proximity, shouldn't Trayvon's blood be on Zimmerman?Zimmerman's brother sounded unconvincing to me last night.

I asked this exact question a few nights ago. But someone (I can't remember who) posted that unless you hit an artery, blood doesn't splash out in real life like it does on TV, even at close range. I have no idea if this is true.

That was me. I am not a cop, but have seen pictures of someone being shot in a self defense class. All I saw was the hole and blood trickled down. That was bare skin. If you are wearing cloth (hoodie) it wouldn't just splatter.ETA: I'm sure there are videos or articles out there on the matter. I'm not going to look it up during work though.

How do you respond to Leroy Hoard's argument that if the single bullet killed Martin, then it would have had to hit "something" (I presume he means an artery.) me

Self defense class you aim for the middle of the body cavity. The organs inside the body are the most important to function. The damage would happen under the skin inside the chest cavity. When someone jumps off a building and lands on their back or stomach there isn't a big splat and stuff comes pouring out. The internal organs are crushed causing death. Like I said, I'm not an expert, so take it as an opinion.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Swinging at a bus driver down?

I haven't heard that. Do you have a link? If true, it's the first thing I've heard that I would consider relevant (probably not legally, but at least for the purposes of this discussion.)

Are you really incapable of ever doing your own searches? Anwyays, seems to be true as a rumor. Much like some of the other stuff there isn't any definitive proof as of yet:http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/trayvon-martin-s-ten-day-suspension

The Florida Sun-Sentinel reported today, March 26th, that Trayvon's ten day suspension was related to marijuana. This, and a cryptic comment by his father that was quoted in the above Kansas City Star article, suggest he was caught smoking marijuana on school property.

Sure. Doesn't mean he couldn't have swung at his bus driver. His brother's tweet could have had nothing to do with his suspension but still been accurate.

 

[bigbottom]

Zimmerman's dad: "I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, the NAACP, everyone".

Say what???

If that's a direct quote, it sure is interesting that he singles out the President and the NAACP from everyone else.

Don't forget the Congressional Black Caucus. The exact quote was:

"I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, The Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP... Every organization imaginable is trying to get notoriety from this or profit in some way."

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/29/454729/robert-zimmerman-obama/?mobile=nc

Where's the hate again:

Question: Mr. President, may I ask you about this current case in Florida, very controversial, allegations of lingering racism within our society the so-called do not Im sorry Stand Your Ground law and the justice in that? Can you comment on the Trayvon Martin case, sir?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, Im the head of the executive branch, and the Attorney General reports to me so Ive got to be careful about my statements to make sure that were not impairing any investigation thats taking place right now.

But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together federal, state and local to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

So Im glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate whats taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.

But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, hed look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that were going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.

Thank you.

Yeah, I don't really see hate either. I think it's a parent getting defensive and protecting their child.I will say, though, that I find it exceptionally interesting that Obama interjected in the Louis Gates matter, a local matter he didn't need to interject himself into, and was partial toward the black "victim". Here, Obama is once again weighing in on the Trayvon matter and is appearing more sympathetic to one side and saying that we need to give this matter the "seriousness it deserves". Yet, over the course of the past couple years when there have been many well-documented black mob attacks on white and Asian victims (notably the Wisconsin Fair incident where hunderedd of young black men attacked innocent white people), Obama did not say a word. These attacks apparently did not deserve Obama's seriousness.

I'm not the only one who has noticed this interesting inconsistency Obama has in addressing matters involving race.Some Brits are in a twit over it.

Obama was asked a direct question about the Trayvon case and allegations regarding race. Was he asked a direct question about particular black mob attacks on whites and asians? And as for his comments "appearing more sympathetic to one side" (I think they expressed sympathy to the grieving parents while maintaining neutral on the investigation itself), why don't you compare Obama's remarks to those of Rick Santorum?:

Its a horrible case, and its chilling to hear what happened, Santorum said. And of course the fact that law enforcement didnt immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process.

He continued: I think its pretty clear the problems were seeing in this case, and hopefully the state Attorney General and local community is reacting and responding, and hopefully this matter will be an example of what law enforcement has to do in a case like this.

How come Zimmerman's dad and you aren't taking shots at Santorum? Do you find Santorum's comments "exceptionally interesting?"

 

[SacramentoBob]

lol

Even though Trayvon was only 17, he already was sporting gold teeth, and several large tattoos.

Tattoos!!!

 

[ATC1]

Zimmerman's dad needs to ####. First "my son can't be racist. He's Latino!" gem and now he can't understand why his son is the object of hate? He shot an unarmed kid that he thought was suspicious for no reason at all. Get real dad, your sons a freaking racist psycho.

And Trayvon did not have to be an angel. Zimmerman made all the mistakes here:

Believing he was a cop when he wasn't

Carrying while serving as watch captain

Targeting someone based on their appearance alone

Engaging when told not to by both watch standards and police at the time

Regardless of what happened after this, Zimmerman is ultimately responsible for all of the above that ultimately led to an unarmed kid being shot dead. I really don't think he should be absolved of the responsibility for creating this situation regardless of the vague, poorly worded stand your ground law.

What is your definition of "Engaging"?He was returning from the store, not while he was walking around with his dog as "watch captain".

YES, he was an idiot for getting out his car in the first place. That does not make his guilty by law. Also, there have been reports (quoted earlier in the thread) that Zimmerman has followed a suspicious person before that lead to the arrest of that person. If this was illegal stalking, then he would have been arrested at that time or there would be reports that police told him not to do that. If he was considered a hero that day, why would he think twice about not following Martin on the night of the shooting?

 

[timschochet]

How come Zimmerman's dad and you aren't taking shots at Santorum? Do you find Santorum's comments "exceptionally interesting?"

Because it doesn't fit. Santorum, the NAACP, the Congressional Black Caucus...

One fo these things is not like the others... OTOH, if you say "Obama, the NAACP, the Congressional Black Caucus..." That fits! You see?

 

[squistion]

Yeah, I don't really see hate either. I think it's a parent getting defensive and protecting their child.

I will say, though, that I find it exceptionally interesting that Obama interjected in the Louis Gates matter, a local matter he didn't need to interject himself into, and was partial toward the black "victim". Here, Obama is once again weighing in on the Trayvon matter and is appearing more sympathetic to one side and saying that we need to give this matter the "seriousness it deserves". Yet, over the course of the past couple years when there have been many well-documented black mob attacks on white and Asian victims (notably the Wisconsin Fair incident where hunderedd of young black men attacked innocent white people), Obama did not say a word.

These attacks apparently did not deserve Obama's seriousness.I'm not the only one who has noticed this interesting inconsistency Obama has in addressing matters involving race.Some Brits are in a twit over it.

The attacks did not deserve his attention because in the two most publicized cases the police said they had no proof that the attacks were racially motivated. Taken directly from your link of the Wisconsin Fair incident:

WDJT reports police say the attacks were not racially motivated.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Swinging at a bus driver down?

I haven't heard that. Do you have a link? If true, it's the first thing I've heard that I would consider relevant (probably not legally, but at least for the purposes of this discussion.)

heres a link http://i.imgur.com/iTmrv.jpg?1

 

[culdeus]

To me this is just a simple case of Zimmerman wanted Trayvon to give him a reason to shoot him, and he obliged.

 

[Clifford]

My definition of engaging:

he was an idiot for getting out his car in the first place

I don't give a crap about the law. If the Florida law allows what he did then it's obvious that law should and likely will be repealed because it basically allows homicide. Again, call me crazy but I think if you start #### with someone and then they start whaling on you then you should not be able to kill them and get away with it. If you're such a ##### that you can't handle the fist-fights you start without shooting someone and you go around starting #### with people you should be in jail.

And you seriously don't know what "engaging" means? It's not like it has a million definitions.

Also, hero? Think you might have gotten to the heart of the problem with Zimmerman right there. I really don't want to live in a country with "heros" like Zimmerman running all over the place shooting people.

 

[Clinton]

Zimmerman's dad: "I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, the NAACP, everyone".

Say what???

If that's a direct quote, it sure is interesting that he singles out the President and the NAACP from everyone else.

Don't forget the Congressional Black Caucus. The exact quote was:

"I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, The Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP... Every organization imaginable is trying to get notoriety from this or profit in some way."

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/29/454729/robert-zimmerman-obama/?mobile=nc

Where's the hate again:

Question: Mr. President, may I ask you about this current case in Florida, very controversial, allegations of lingering racism within our society — the so-called do not — I’m sorry — Stand Your Ground law and the justice in that? Can you comment on the Trayvon Martin case, sir?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I’m the head of the executive branch, and the Attorney General reports to me so I’ve got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we’re not impairing any investigation that’s taking place right now.

But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together — federal, state and local — to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

So I’m glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what’s taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.

But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.

Thank you.

Yeah, I don't really see hate either. I think it's a parent getting defensive and protecting their child.I will say, though, that I find it exceptionally interesting that Obama interjected in the Louis Gates matter, a local matter he didn't need to interject himself into, and was partial toward the black "victim". Here, Obama is once again weighing in on the Trayvon matter and is appearing more sympathetic to one side and saying that we need to give this matter the "seriousness it deserves". Yet, over the course of the past couple years when there have been many well-documented black mob attacks on white and Asian victims (notably the Wisconsin Fair incident where hunderedd of young black men attacked innocent white people), Obama did not say a word. These attacks apparently did not deserve Obama's seriousness.

I'm not the only one who has noticed this interesting inconsistency Obama has in addressing matters involving race.Some Brits are in a twit over it.

Obama was asked a direct question about the Trayvon case and allegations regarding race. Was he asked a direct question about particular black mob attacks on whites and asians? And as for his comments "appearing more sympathetic to one side" (I think they expressed sympathy to the grieving parents while maintaining neutral on the investigation itself), why don't you compare Obama's remarks to those of Rick Santorum?:

“It’s a horrible case, and it’s chilling to hear what happened,” Santorum said. “And of course the fact that law enforcement didn’t immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process.”

He continued: “I think it’s pretty clear the problems we’re seeing in this case, and hopefully the state Attorney General and local community is reacting and responding, and hopefully this matter will be an example of what law enforcement has to do in a case like this.”

How come Zimmerman's dad and you aren't taking shots at Santorum? Do you find Santorum's comments "exceptionally interesting?"

I didn't mention Santorum because I was responding to a direct question about Obama. I was not posed a direct question about Santorum. Didn't you just establish the principle that you should only weigh in on matters that you're asked direct questions about?

 

[Clifford]

To me this is just a simple case of Zimmerman wanted Trayvon to give him a reason to shoot him, and he obliged.

 

[ATC1]

My definition of engaging:

he was an idiot for getting out his car in the first place

I don't give a crap about the law. If the Florida law allows what he did then it's obvious that law should and likely will be repealed because it basically allows homicide. Again, call me crazy but I think if you start #### with someone and then they start whaling on you then you should not be able to kill them and get away with it. If you're such a ##### that you can't handle the fist-fights you start without shooting someone and you go around starting #### with people you should be in jail.

And you seriously don't know what "engaging" means? It's not like it has a million definitions.

When I think a sniper's definition of engage, I don't think of it as following the target with a scope. It is shoot the target. Not that I disagree with you that he was an idiot. However, I will not be a citizen in Cliftoria anytime soon.

 

[bigbottom]

Zimmerman's dad: "I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, the NAACP, everyone".

Say what???

If that's a direct quote, it sure is interesting that he singles out the President and the NAACP from everyone else.

Don't forget the Congressional Black Caucus. The exact quote was:

"I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, The Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP... Every organization imaginable is trying to get notoriety from this or profit in some way."

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/29/454729/robert-zimmerman-obama/?mobile=nc

Where's the hate again:

Question: Mr. President, may I ask you about this current case in Florida, very controversial, allegations of lingering racism within our society — the so-called do not — I’m sorry — Stand Your Ground law and the justice in that? Can you comment on the Trayvon Martin case, sir?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I’m the head of the executive branch, and the Attorney General reports to me so I’ve got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we’re not impairing any investigation that’s taking place right now.

But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together — federal, state and local — to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

So I’m glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what’s taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.

But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.

Thank you.

Yeah, I don't really see hate either. I think it's a parent getting defensive and protecting their child.I will say, though, that I find it exceptionally interesting that Obama interjected in the Louis Gates matter, a local matter he didn't need to interject himself into, and was partial toward the black "victim". Here, Obama is once again weighing in on the Trayvon matter and is appearing more sympathetic to one side and saying that we need to give this matter the "seriousness it deserves". Yet, over the course of the past couple years when there have been many well-documented black mob attacks on white and Asian victims (notably the Wisconsin Fair incident where hunderedd of young black men attacked innocent white people), Obama did not say a word. These attacks apparently did not deserve Obama's seriousness.

I'm not the only one who has noticed this interesting inconsistency Obama has in addressing matters involving race.Some Brits are in a twit over it.

Obama was asked a direct question about the Trayvon case and allegations regarding race. Was he asked a direct question about particular black mob attacks on whites and asians? And as for his comments "appearing more sympathetic to one side" (I think they expressed sympathy to the grieving parents while maintaining neutral on the investigation itself), why don't you compare Obama's remarks to those of Rick Santorum?:

“It’s a horrible case, and it’s chilling to hear what happened,” Santorum said. “And of course the fact that law enforcement didn’t immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process.”

He continued: “I think it’s pretty clear the problems we’re seeing in this case, and hopefully the state Attorney General and local community is reacting and responding, and hopefully this matter will be an example of what law enforcement has to do in a case like this.”

How come Zimmerman's dad and you aren't taking shots at Santorum? Do you find Santorum's comments "exceptionally interesting?"

I didn't mention Santorum because I was responding to a direct question about Obama. I was not posed a direct question about Santorum. Didn't you just establish the principle that you should only weigh in on matters that you're asked direct questions about?

Good point. And it completely undermines your point about the relevance of Obama not commenting on particular cases he was never apparently asked about. Looks like we can move on to other issues.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I can't really imagine a scenario where a fight is taking place on the ground, and a grown man, while maybe getting the worse of the fight, will start screaming like a teenage boy yelling for help.

However, I can imagine a teenage boy screaming for help while staring at a gun being pointed at him.

Proof the shot was not fired the instant Zimmerman took it out of the holster....or the instant he gained control of it in a struggle? This would be huge.If there is no evidence of blood. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman for the sole purpose of trying to gain control of the gun that Zimmerman pulled. If Zimmerman gets control of the gun and there is enough time for Martin to scream help and noooo for as long as the witnesses say they heard a cry for help, then Zimmerman should be in jail for a long time.

Still not jumping to any conclusions.

As to the new witness. Can we really take a "New" witness at this time that comes on a TV show. He heard 2 shots fired? There is still only proof that there was only one, right?

hes not a new witness to the police, hes a new witness to the public.Hes staying anonymous so hes not looking for his 15 minutes of fame. He said he heard what sounded like 2 fast pops, he said it could have been an echo.here , listen for yourself...

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-witness-breaks-silence/?hpt=ac_t1

He's not looking for his 15 minutes but he appears on CNN?

anonymously

Right. So he's not looking for fame, just a buck. Upstanding fellow.

proof or a link please.

Why? 95% of this thread is speculation. Seems reasonable to assume that if someone didn't want attention or fame, they wouldn't go on national TV without a good reason, and green is a pretty good reason.

well thank you for clearing that up, you sounded so sure of your statement.

 

[renesauz]

Yeah, I don't really see hate either. I think it's a parent getting defensive and protecting their child.

I will say, though, that I find it exceptionally interesting that Obama interjected in the Louis Gates matter, a local matter he didn't need to interject himself into, and was partial toward the black "victim". Here, Obama is once again weighing in on the Trayvon matter and is appearing more sympathetic to one side and saying that we need to give this matter the "seriousness it deserves". Yet, over the course of the past couple years when there have been many well-documented black mob attacks on white and Asian victims (notably the Wisconsin Fair incident where hunderedd of young black men attacked innocent white people), Obama did not say a word. These attacks apparently did not deserve Obama's seriousness.

I'm not the only one who has noticed this interesting inconsistency Obama has in addressing matters involving race.Some Brits are in a twit over it.

It's not just Obama. I really don't have an issue with anything he said though. His comments were pretty tame and were in direct response to a question from a reporter.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Zimmerman's dad: "I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, the NAACP, everyone".

Say what???

If that's a direct quote, it sure is interesting that he singles out the President and the NAACP from everyone else.

Don't forget the Congressional Black Caucus. The exact quote was:

"I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, The Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP... Every organization imaginable is trying to get notoriety from this or profit in some way."

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/29/454729/robert-zimmerman-obama/?mobile=nc

Where's the hate again:

Question: Mr. President, may I ask you about this current case in Florida, very controversial, allegations of lingering racism within our society — the so-called do not — I’m sorry — Stand Your Ground law and the justice in that? Can you comment on the Trayvon Martin case, sir?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I’m the head of the executive branch, and the Attorney General reports to me so I’ve got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we’re not impairing any investigation that’s taking place right now.

But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together — federal, state and local — to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

So I’m glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what’s taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.

But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.

Thank you.

Yeah, I don't really see hate either. I think it's a parent getting defensive and protecting their child.I will say, though, that I find it exceptionally interesting that Obama interjected in the Louis Gates matter, a local matter he didn't need to interject himself into, and was partial toward the black "victim". Here, Obama is once again weighing in on the Trayvon matter and is appearing more sympathetic to one side and saying that we need to give this matter the "seriousness it deserves". Yet, over the course of the past couple years when there have been many well-documented black mob attacks on white and Asian victims (notably the Wisconsin Fair incident where hunderedd of young black men attacked innocent white people), Obama did not say a word. These attacks apparently did not deserve Obama's seriousness.

I'm not the only one who has noticed this interesting inconsistency Obama has in addressing matters involving race.Some Brits are in a twit over it.

Obama was asked a direct question about the Trayvon case and allegations regarding race. Was he asked a direct question about particular black mob attacks on whites and asians? And as for his comments "appearing more sympathetic to one side" (I think they expressed sympathy to the grieving parents while maintaining neutral on the investigation itself), why don't you compare Obama's remarks to those of Rick Santorum?:

“It’s a horrible case, and it’s chilling to hear what happened,” Santorum said. “And of course the fact that law enforcement didn’t immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process.”

He continued: “I think it’s pretty clear the problems we’re seeing in this case, and hopefully the state Attorney General and local community is reacting and responding, and hopefully this matter will be an example of what law enforcement has to do in a case like this.”

How come Zimmerman's dad and you aren't taking shots at Santorum? Do you find Santorum's comments "exceptionally interesting?"

I didn't mention Santorum because I was responding to a direct question about Obama. I was not posed a direct question about Santorum. Didn't you just establish the principle that you should only weigh in on matters that you're asked direct questions about?

Good point. And it completely undermines your point about the relevance of Obama not commenting on particular cases he was never apparently asked about. Looks like we can move on to other issues.

That's gonna sting for a while.

 

[Clinton]

Yeah, I don't really see hate either. I think it's a parent getting defensive and protecting their child.

I will say, though, that I find it exceptionally interesting that Obama interjected in the Louis Gates matter, a local matter he didn't need to interject himself into, and was partial toward the black "victim". Here, Obama is once again weighing in on the Trayvon matter and is appearing more sympathetic to one side and saying that we need to give this matter the "seriousness it deserves". Yet, over the course of the past couple years when there have been many well-documented black mob attacks on white and Asian victims (notably the Wisconsin Fair incident where hunderedd of young black men attacked innocent white people), Obama did not say a word.

These attacks apparently did not deserve Obama's seriousness.I'm not the only one who has noticed this interesting inconsistency Obama has in addressing matters involving race.Some Brits are in a twit over it.

The attacks did not deserve his attention because in the two most publicized cases the police said they had no proof that the attacks were racially motivated. Taken directly from your link of the Wisconsin Fair incident:

WDJT reports police say the attacks were not racially motivated.

I'll look at the facts and use common sense rather than being brainwashed by a PC conclusion meant to lessen reprisals against and/or negative views of black people on the whole.

Here are other guys that apply common sense to facts:

"Undoubtedly, these incidents perpetuate the most negative stereotypes about African Americans and there is no justification for the reckless and unlawful conduct by this small segment of the community. In several press conferences following the incident, African American officials- including Common Council President Willie Hines and local NAACP Branch President Atty. James Hall, Jr.- have called for the full prosecution of those individuals found responsible for any possible hate crimes against white citizens."

http://thyblackman.com/2011/08/06/black-%E2%80%98youth-mob%E2%80%99-attacks-in-milwaukee-brings-summer-fun-to-a-halt/

“Anyone who says that race wasn’t a part of this, wasn’t there, didn’t see it,” said Alderman Bob Donovan. Alderman Donovan and Alderman Joe Dudzik sent out a statement blaming the mob attacks squarely on race. “This was largely perpetrated by African-American young people singling out, from the reports that we’ve been getting, whites,” Donovan argued.

 

[timschochet]

I don't give a crap about the law.

Most of the rest of us do, though. I believe, as you do, that Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter. But they'd better be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. People like you scare me, because from the beginning of this case there has been a populist element to those who are demanding justice. You don't want justice, you want a result which will emotionally sastisfy you, and legal rights be damned.Despite my near-certainty that Zimmerman is a murderer, I would much rather see him walk away scot-free than see him imprisoned based upon public pressures rather than a fair trial. That has always been my position with the prisoners held in Guantanamo, and that's my position here.

 

[Clifford]

My definition of engaging:

he was an idiot for getting out his car in the first place

I don't give a crap about the law. If the Florida law allows what he did then it's obvious that law should and likely will be repealed because it basically allows homicide. Again, call me crazy but I think if you start #### with someone and then they start whaling on you then you should not be able to kill them and get away with it. If you're such a ##### that you can't handle the fist-fights you start without shooting someone and you go around starting #### with people you should be in jail.

And you seriously don't know what "engaging" means? It's not like it has a million definitions.

When I think a sniper's definition of engage, I don't think of it as following the target with a scope. It is shoot the target. Not that I disagree with you that he was an idiot. However, I will not be a citizen in Cliftoria anytime soon.

Are you serious? Is that you John Rambo?

 

[bigbottom]

I don't give a crap about the law.

Most of the rest of us do, though. I believe, as you do, that Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter. But they'd better be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. People like you scare me, because from the beginning of this case there has been a populist element to those who are demanding justice. You don't want justice, you want a result which will emotionally sastisfy you, and legal rights be damned.Despite my near-certainty that Zimmerman is a murderer, I would much rather see him walk away scot-free than see him imprisoned based upon public pressures rather than a fair trial. That has always been my position with the prisoners held in Guantanamo, and that's my position here.

You have a near-certainty that Zimmerman is a murderer?

 

[the moops]

Was Clinton assaulted by an angry mob of black kids a while back? Holy #### dude. You bring this thing up in every ####### thread. My god.

 

[timschochet]

I don't give a crap about the law.

Most of the rest of us do, though. I believe, as you do, that Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter. But they'd better be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. People like you scare me, because from the beginning of this case there has been a populist element to those who are demanding justice. You don't want justice, you want a result which will emotionally sastisfy you, and legal rights be damned.Despite my near-certainty that Zimmerman is a murderer, I would much rather see him walk away scot-free than see him imprisoned based upon public pressures rather than a fair trial. That has always been my position with the prisoners held in Guantanamo, and that's my position here.

You have a near-certainty that Zimmerman is a murderer?

Based on the information that is available to all of us, yes.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

To me this is just a simple case of Zimmerman wanted Trayvon to give him a reason to shoot him, and he obliged.

That's what it sounds like to me.

 

[GDogg]

A 200+ lb 27 year old guy felt his life was endangered by a 140lb unarmed kid. How ridiculous, even if he was getting punched he was never in any danger of being injured badly.

He was a neighborhood watch wanna be cop guy looking for trouble and the opportunity to use his gun.

I hope he ends up 6 feet under.

28 year old sub 200 pound man felt threatened by a 6 foot 160 pound 17 year old. Not that it matters to you. You have made up your mind and will likely reply that it still didn't matter.Did you miss the link where I posted how the girl killed somebody with one punch? How bout the other links where other people were killed by a few punches?

It is fine to have the opinion that he shouldn't have been carrying a gun or put himself in that situation or even that you don't believe him at all. It is a whole different story to claim that you think there was no danger using false size statements and then not retract your statement when you learn the true size difference.

Why does this matter? Do you think most people, when they get into a fight (or get punched), think, "my life is in danger...that one little girl was killed in Long Beach by a punch...?" I don't.

 

[renesauz]

I don't give a crap about the law.

Most of the rest of us do, though. I believe, as you do, that Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter. But they'd better be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. People like you scare me, because from the beginning of this case there has been a populist element to those who are demanding justice. You don't want justice, you want a result which will emotionally sastisfy you, and legal rights be damned.Despite my near-certainty that Zimmerman is a murderer, I would much rather see him walk away scot-free than see him imprisoned based upon public pressures rather than a fair trial. That has always been my position with the prisoners held in Guantanamo, and that's my position here.

We disagree on a lot of things, but I appreciate the way you usually approach things.

 

[Clifford]

I don't give a crap about the law.

Most of the rest of us do, though. I believe, as you do, that Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter. But they'd better be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. People like you scare me, because from the beginning of this case there has been a populist element to those who are demanding justice. You don't want justice, you want a result which will emotionally sastisfy you, and legal rights be damned.Despite my near-certainty that Zimmerman is a murderer, I would much rather see him walk away scot-free than see him imprisoned based upon public pressures rather than a fair trial. That has always been my position with the prisoners held in Guantanamo, and that's my position here.

I want him arrested. Given all the conflicting accounts, the police misconduct, the coercion of witnesses, can you think of a single reason he should not be arrested?Stop the drama. All I have said is that his claim of self-defence, given that he was claiming it against an unarmed man smaller than him, should not have been enough to prevent an arrest. Had an arrest been made at the time, there is a good chance this would not be getting the attention it is, and Zimmerman would stand a much better chance of receiving a fair trial.What about that scares you? I mean, believe whatever you want but that is all I have been saying the whole time. Do I think he's guilty of manslaughter? Hell yes. Do I think my opinion should determine the outcome of the trial, if there ever is one? Hell no.You're creating a false choice of walking scot free or being convicted unjustly. Really all that has been said by anyone at this point is that he should be arrested and this should be settled in a court of law. I thought that one day one and I still think it on day 34.

 

[cstu]

“Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us,” he said. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.”

Until something definitive comes out, I'm going to assume Zimmerman shot Trayvon because he was pissed about getting attacked by a punk kid. While it's possible that he shot Trayvon while he thought he life was in danger, I believe it's more likely he snapped again and decided to kill him.More than about race, this case illustrates the problems with concealed carry. I support it, but I think the bar needs to be raised on who is allowed to carry. Even a single arrest for a violence-related crime should be enough to disqualify someone.

 

[squistion]

Was Clinton assaulted by an angry mob of black kids a while back? Holy #### dude. You bring this thing up in every ####### thread. My god.

He trots these out at least once a week but in both incidents he cites, the police are on record as saying there was no racial component or racial motivation - and he can't provide one credible link to prove otherwise. Oddly he never talks about black mobs attacking latinos, just whites and asians (I guess that is because blacks and latinos live in perfect harmony everywhere).

 

[Bigboy10182000]

“Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us,” he said. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.”

Until something definitive comes out, I'm going to assume Zimmerman shot Trayvon because he was pissed about getting attacked by a punk kid. While it's possible that he shot Trayvon while he thought he life was in danger, I believe it's more likely he snapped again and decided to kill him.

More than about race, this case illustrates the problems with concealed carry. I support it, but I think the bar needs to be raised on who is allowed to carry. Even a single arrest for a violence-related crime should be enough to disqualify someone.

But when a story is this big it just can't be that simple, can it?

 

[Clinton]

Don't forget the Congressional Black Caucus.

The exact quote was:

"I never foresaw so much hate coming from the President, The Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP... Every organization imaginable is trying to get notoriety from this or profit in some way."

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/29/454729/robert-zimmerman-obama/?mobile=nc

Where's the hate again:

Question: Mr. President, may I ask you about this current case in Florida, very controversial, allegations of lingering racism within our society — the so-called do not — I’m sorry — Stand Your Ground law and the justice in that? Can you comment on the Trayvon Martin case, sir?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I’m the head of the executive branch, and the Attorney General reports to me so I’ve got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we’re not impairing any investigation that’s taking place right now.

But obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. And when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids. And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together — federal, state and local — to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

So I’m glad that not only is the Justice Department looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what’s taking place. I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.

But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.

Thank you.

Yeah, I don't really see hate either. I think it's a parent getting defensive and protecting their child.I will say, though, that I find it exceptionally interesting that Obama interjected in the Louis Gates matter, a local matter he didn't need to interject himself into, and was partial toward the black "victim". Here, Obama is once again weighing in on the Trayvon matter and is appearing more sympathetic to one side and saying that we need to give this matter the "seriousness it deserves". Yet, over the course of the past couple years when there have been many well-documented black mob attacks on white and Asian victims (notably the Wisconsin Fair incident where hunderedd of young black men attacked innocent white people), Obama did not say a word. These attacks apparently did not deserve Obama's seriousness.

I'm not the only one who has noticed this interesting inconsistency Obama has in addressing matters involving race.Some Brits are in a twit over it.

Obama was asked a direct question about the Trayvon case and allegations regarding race. Was he asked a direct question about particular black mob attacks on whites and asians? And as for his comments "appearing more sympathetic to one side" (I think they expressed sympathy to the grieving parents while maintaining neutral on the investigation itself), why don't you compare Obama's remarks to those of Rick Santorum?:

“It’s a horrible case, and it’s chilling to hear what happened,” Santorum said. “And of course the fact that law enforcement didn’t immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process.”

He continued: “I think it’s pretty clear the problems we’re seeing in this case, and hopefully the state Attorney General and local community is reacting and responding, and hopefully this matter will be an example of what law enforcement has to do in a case like this.”

How come Zimmerman's dad and you aren't taking shots at Santorum? Do you find Santorum's comments "exceptionally interesting?"

I didn't mention Santorum because I was responding to a direct question about Obama. I was not posed a direct question about Santorum. Didn't you just establish the principle that you should only weigh in on matters that you're asked direct questions about?

Good point. And it completely undermines your point about the relevance of Obama not commenting on particular cases he was never apparently asked about. Looks like we can move on to other issues.

That's gonna sting for a while.

Quite the opposite. I was showing bigbottom the ridiculousness of him saying that Obama needed to be asked a direct question about a matter before speaking on it. If Obama doesn't need to address serious matters he's not directly asked about, why should I have had to address superfluous matters I wasn't directly asked about?

But to now answer his question after my little lesson, I think Santorum is an tool and his comments are much more partial to than Obama's. My point, though, wasn't about specifics of the varying cases cited, but rather about the inconsistency in addressing such matters which appears to fall along lines of the race of the "victim" in the matter. I don't recall Santorum speaking out on comparable previous matters so I have nothing to compare Santorum's present assinine statements against to see if Santorum has stayed consistent.