Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[Neofight]

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

There is only one story saying that -- George Zimmerman's story. It is repeated a lot, that one story.

That's not George Zimmerman's story. That's the story a police officer told a grief stricken Tracy Martin the day after the shooting was George's story. It seems to have suffered in translation. It's more likely George's actual story is the one where Trayvon approaches him from behind and left on the sidewalk between the buildings, and that was the first and basically final contact.

How could you possibly know which one is most likely Zimmerman's story when there are so many varying accounts out there? How do you know it's not this:

Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

Only possible way to know which iteration of the confrontation Zimmerman claims is true is to hear it from his own mouth. All the family members, lawyers and investigators accounts don't mean jack. Just like our own.

 

[Christo]

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

There is only one story saying that -- George Zimmerman's story. It is repeated a lot, that one story.

That's not George Zimmerman's story. That's the story a police officer told a grief stricken Tracy Martin the day after the shooting was George's story. It seems to have suffered in translation. It's more likely George's actual story is the one where Trayvon approaches him from behind and left on the sidewalk between the buildings, and that was the first and basically final contact.

How could you possibly know which one is most likely Zimmerman's story when there are so many varying accounts out there? How do you know it's not this:

Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

Only possible way to know which iteration of the confrontation Zimmerman claims is true is to hear it from his own mouth. All the family members, lawyers and investigators accounts don't mean jack. Just like our own.

Hold it. I thought there was just one story.

 

[Statorama]

Somebody better change that racist thread title before I go off in here.

 

[Neofight]

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

There is only one story saying that -- George Zimmerman's story. It is repeated a lot, that one story.

That's not George Zimmerman's story. That's the story a police officer told a grief stricken Tracy Martin the day after the shooting was George's story. It seems to have suffered in translation. It's more likely George's actual story is the one where Trayvon approaches him from behind and left on the sidewalk between the buildings, and that was the first and basically final contact.

How could you possibly know which one is most likely Zimmerman's story when there are so many varying accounts out there? How do you know it's not this:

Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

Only possible way to know which iteration of the confrontation Zimmerman claims is true is to hear it from his own mouth. All the family members, lawyers and investigators accounts don't mean jack. Just like our own.

Hold it. I thought there was just one story.

I've been surprised at the different versions myself. Not very consistent to me, but perhaps you meant this for someone else?

 

[ATC1]

It doesn't seem like he was familiar with the list of suspicious activities.

Time is critical in apprehending criminals. The

following is a list of suspicious activities and the criminal activity that might be

happening:

 Gathering (loitering) for an extended or

unusual period of time.

Possible burglary, arson, or drug dealing.

 Behaving strangely.

Possibly on drugs or illegal activity.

 With any sort of weapon(s).

Possibly planning any number of crimes.

 Carrying, concealing or transporting

anything unusual.

Possible burglar carrying stolen property.

 Looking into cars.

Possibly casing cars for theft of car or its

contents. (Not cars, but houses)

 Selling or conducting business on a street

corner, park or other place where business is

not licensed.

 Running, especially if carrying something of

value.

Possible suspect fleeing scene of crime.

 Creating any type of disturbance

Disturbing the Peace or covering up noise of

some other activity.

 Going door to door, especially if someone

goes to the rear of the residence.

Possibly casing the neighborhood.

 Loiters around schools, parks or on your

street.

Possible burglar, sex offense, drugs or arson.

All things bolded was recorded during the call Zimmerman made to report the suspicious person.

Seriously? This is hilarious.He was looking into a car at Zimmerman who was following. He ran away from Zimmerman, who was following him. He was loitering? What did Zimmerman report he was carrying that was unusual?

Most of the things you bolded were things Zimmerman reported Martin was doing in response to Zimmerman while he was on the call. They weren't things that made Zimmerman suspicious to initiate the call.

I'm not arguing that this is why Zimmerman initially made the call. Fatness said he obviously did not know what was suspicious activity and listed suspicious activities. I said all the bolded was recorded during the call Zimmerman made to report the suspicious person.

He called because of what commish posted.

 

[Chaos Commish]

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

There is only one story saying that -- George Zimmerman's story. It is repeated a lot, that one story.

That's not George Zimmerman's story. That's the story a police officer told a grief stricken Tracy Martin the day after the shooting was George's story. It seems to have suffered in translation. It's more likely George's actual story is the one where Trayvon approaches him from behind and left on the sidewalk between the buildings, and that was the first and basically final contact.

How could you possibly know which one is most likely Zimmerman's story when there are so many varying accounts out there? How do you know it's not this:

Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

Only possible way to know which iteration of the confrontation Zimmerman claims is true is to hear it from his own mouth. All the family members, lawyers and investigators accounts don't mean jack. Just like our own.

Because the 4 minute phone call makes the above quote absurd.

 

[Chaos Commish]

He was looking into cars, carrying something unusual and running before Zimmerman made the call?

Before Zimmerman made the call... what seems like the best information states that Zimmerman saw Trayvon in front of the clubhouse. The GF says Tray went under the awning there to get out of the rain. Makes sense, but to Zimmerman this was suspicious. So he stopped his car and watched Tray. Tray walked away from the black SUV acting suspicious which led him around the clubhouse to the central mailboxes. Zimmerman rounded the same corner, still driving and followed him past the first building, parked and made the call because Tray was not on the sidewalk but across the street behind some homes. If you look at the location of the next sidewalk where the shooting happened, what Tray was doing on the wrong side of the street behind homes makes sense. It was shorter not to use the sidewalk. To Zimmerman it was wandering around acting suspicious.

So he wasn't doing those things I listed.

I don't know, but I think he was doing the things George said he was doing on the phone call, and some of them were suspicious-ish.

 

[Chaos Commish]

How could you possibly know which one is most likely Zimmerman's story when there are so many varying accounts out there? How do you know it's not this:

Because the 4 minute phone call makes the above quote absurd.

Also a later police leak in the Sentinel told the story they way I relay it. SPD acknowledged it as a good summary of George's version and said they would plug the leak.

 

[ATC1]

He was looking into cars, carrying something unusual and running before Zimmerman made the call?

Before Zimmerman made the call... what seems like the best information states that Zimmerman saw Trayvon in front of the clubhouse. The GF says Tray went under the awning there to get out of the rain. Makes sense, but to Zimmerman this was suspicious. So he stopped his car and watched Tray. Tray walked away from the black SUV acting suspicious which led him around the clubhouse to the central mailboxes. Zimmerman rounded the same corner, still driving and followed him past the first building, parked and made the call because Tray was not on the sidewalk but across the street behind some homes. If you look at the location of the next sidewalk where the shooting happened, what Tray was doing on the wrong side of the street behind homes makes sense. It was shorter not to use the sidewalk. To Zimmerman it was wandering around acting suspicious.

So he wasn't doing those things I listed.

I don't know, but I think he was doing the things George said he was doing on the phone call, and some of them were suspicious-ish.

My point is that according to the offical police neighborhood watch guidelines, they were suspicious. Also, nowhere on there does it say not to follow or do not carry a firearm.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So NBC admitted a mistake and remedies it. Does Fox ever do that once called out?

No clue....I'm a universal hater of the media though. None of them are "fair" or "balanced"

 

[Christo]

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

There is only one story saying that -- George Zimmerman's story. It is repeated a lot, that one story.

That's not George Zimmerman's story. That's the story a police officer told a grief stricken Tracy Martin the day after the shooting was George's story. It seems to have suffered in translation. It's more likely George's actual story is the one where Trayvon approaches him from behind and left on the sidewalk between the buildings, and that was the first and basically final contact.

How could you possibly know which one is most likely Zimmerman's story when there are so many varying accounts out there? How do you know it's not this:

Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

Only possible way to know which iteration of the confrontation Zimmerman claims is true is to hear it from his own mouth. All the family members, lawyers and investigators accounts don't mean jack. Just like our own.

Hold it. I thought there was just one story.

I've been surprised at the different versions myself. Not very consistent to me, but perhaps you meant this for someone else?

Everyone who has insisted to me for the last few pages that there is only one story for Zimmerman.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So NBC admitted a mistake and remedies it. Does Fox ever do that once called out?

Was no mistake, and by far no real remedy, they can't undo what they've done..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Solid Reuters piece on the days following the killing, including the media build-up.

Tracy Martin had been looking for his son Trayvon since the night before. He went to bed figuring the teen must have gone to the movies and turned off his phone. When Trayvon still wasn't home in the morning, Martin called the police...

Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

First I'd heard this story, but it seems like another variation of the theme that Zimmerman was minding his own business. Lots of discrepancies with other accounts.

A law-enforcement source, who had been informed of the case by investigators, told Reuters that Serino was eager to bring a charge but encountered resistance from the office of the prosecutor, State Attorney Norman Wolfinger.

"Chris (Serino) would have made a recommendation for manslaughter, but Norm Wolfinger's office wanted it to be a slam dunk," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They don't want to hear that this is wrong or that is wrong with the case. That's the way this county does business." Wolfinger on Monday broke a long silence about the case, denying reports he quashed police intentions to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter.

Seems as though the recused (or not recused, in Christo World) Wolfinger is feeling some heat.

Although Martin had identified his son to police on Monday, February 27, and asked Serino the next day to issue police clearance for releasing the body, not until Wednesday was a funeral director permitted to drive it back to South Florida. In Miami, the boy's mother, Sybrina Fulton, 46, a program coordinator for the Miami Dade Housing Authority, stayed home in bed.

Are delays like this normal?

Chief Lee had resisted Crump's requests to make the tapes public, but he was overruled by Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett. On the night of Friday, March 16, Triplett invited Trayvon Martin's parents and their legal team into his office to listen to each of the calls, which he played on his computer.

"When we got to the cries for help, that was when Sybrina burst into tears," recalled Jackson. "She said, 'That's Trayvon. That's our son.' She ran out of the room crying." (Zimmerman's brother, Robert, would later swear the voice belonged to George.)

This would seem to go against the police account of Tracy Martin being unsure of whose voice it was on that recording. Strange this wasn't brought to light before.

Every story is something different at this point.. Media in total has lost my confidence.. (as if I ever really did trust them)Nice post though.. Good questions

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Chief Lee had resisted Crump's requests to make the tapes public, but he was overruled by Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett. On the night of Friday, March 16, Triplett invited Trayvon Martin's parents and their legal team into his office to listen to each of the calls, which he played on his computer."When we got to the cries for help, that was when Sybrina burst into tears," recalled Jackson. "She said, 'That's Trayvon. That's our son.' She ran out of the room crying." (Zimmerman's brother, Robert, would later swear the voice belonged to George.)

This would seem to go against the police account of Tracy Martin being unsure of whose voice it was on that recording. Strange this wasn't brought to light before.

The Martins' attorneys admitted Dad said he was unsure before the tapes were enhanced.

this is true

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I am burnt out on this case already, but what is annoying is with todays technology why do they keep showing pictures of Martin when he was 10-11 years old, and Zimmerman when he was 50lbs heavier from 4 years ago?Last night they showed recent pictures of both men on a local station and they looked nothing like the pictures that are still being used today on the national networks.

I don't believe this is deliberate either. Those are the first pictures that the media had. Now those pictures have immediate public recognition. That's why they're used.

You'd think all news sources would want the most up-to-date information (including visual) in any story they tell.Pretty naive to think they're going with a pretty old picture just to help us follow along.

None of it was coincidental.. The pictures, the spin, the editing.. It sold the story they wanted to sell.. And built a solid basis for future stories.. Garbage journalism/reporting..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I am burnt out on this case already, but what is annoying is with todays technology why do they keep showing pictures of Martin when he was 10-11 years old, and Zimmerman when he was 50lbs heavier from 4 years ago?

Last night they showed recent pictures of both men on a local station and they looked nothing like the pictures that are still being used today on the national networks.

I don't believe this is deliberate either. Those are the first pictures that the media had. Now those pictures have immediate public recognition. That's why they're used.

You'd think all news sources would want the most up-to-date information (including visual) in any story they tell.

Pretty naive to think they're going with a pretty old picture just to help us follow along.

When it comes to photographs, the answer is no. The purpose of having the same photos over and over is so that when the average viewer switches onto that station, he or she has instant recognition of the topic, and since this topic garners high ratings, the hope is that the viewer will stay on that channel and follow the broadcast. Showing up to date pictures would confuse the viewer; the viewer would have to be made aware of what he is looking at. The more immediate the recognition, the more chance of the viewer watching the broadcast and not changing the channel. This is basic TV journalism 101. There is no conspiracy here.

I wish you could read this stuff from outside of your own head.. lol

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Re: the screaming.1. If you believe Zimmerman is guilty, but you discovered that the screaming was Zimmerman, would you change your mind and decide that he very likely acted in self-defense?2. If you believe Zimmerman is innocent, but you discovered that the screaming was Trayvon Martin, would you change your mind and decide Zimmerman is very likely guilty?

Either way you'd have to at least rethink it.. I for one don't think we'll ever know one way or the other but I think either option likely helps the case one way or the other..There will be conflicting "specialist" opinion during a trial, and I'm not sure even the "specialists" can really be certain either way. But if it'd found positive that Zimmerman was the screamer, I still don't think that proves he is innocent, and vis versa..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I am burnt out on this case already, but what is annoying is with todays technology why do they keep showing pictures of Martin when he was 10-11 years old, and Zimmerman when he was 50lbs heavier from 4 years ago?

Last night they showed recent pictures of both men on a local station and they looked nothing like the pictures that are still being used today on the national networks.

I don't believe this is deliberate either. Those are the first pictures that the media had. Now those pictures have immediate public recognition. That's why they're used.

You'd think all news sources would want the most up-to-date information (including visual) in any story they tell.

Pretty naive to think they're going with a pretty old picture just to help us follow along.

When it comes to photographs, the answer is no. The purpose of having the same photos over and over is so that when the average viewer switches onto that station, he or she has instant recognition of the topic, and since this topic garners high ratings, the hope is that the viewer will stay on that channel and follow the broadcast. Showing up to date pictures would confuse the viewer; the viewer would have to be made aware of what he is looking at. The more immediate the recognition, the more chance of the viewer watching the broadcast and not changing the channel. This is basic TV journalism 101. There is no conspiracy here.

Ok

What's funny is that you don't want to believe this. I could literally show you hundreds of examples- even involving famous celebrities who died like Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston- a news channel will get 1 or 2 photographs, 1 or 2 video shots, and will play these over and over for hours and days on end rather than bringing in new material each time. Why do you think they do this?

But never mind, you prefer to believe in a grand conspiracy theory, because it fits your overall view of the media. And so nothing I write will make the slightest bit of difference to you. Carry on.

I don't think you know much about journalism and what that should entail.As for the famous people, there are countless photos used in their news article. And when there's big news (like a death/accident/illness) the most recent pictures are used in most all cases.

You really think the media only has/uses 1-2 photos of Whitney and Michael Jackson. Really?

Using very old photos in this particular case heightens the sensationalism. That's why they do it.

It's a competitive world.

You're changing your story as you go along here. First you and others implied heavily that the news media was not showing new photographs in order to manipulate the public- e.g. a conspiracy to turn people against Zimmerman, more proof that the news has a liberal bias, etc. Now you're arguing that the news does this for competitive purposes. Well I agree with that. But you're still wrong about the sensationalism angle. The news does want to be sensational, but they also want to be familiar, and familiarity is more important. And yes, while all the news stations had hundreds of photographs of Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston, they used the same handful over and over, for reasons of familiarity.As to what I know about journalism: I am not a journalist myself. My wife's aunt is a very high level television censor. She has worked for CNN and CBS, and she currently works for the Fox Network (not the news division.). I have had numerous conversations about these issues with her and about all aspects of television. We haven't discussed Trayvon Martin (I last saw her a few months ago) but we have discussed familiarity and the use of the same photos over and over. She's the one who informed me about this issue.

My uncles neighbors sister is a journalist, and works for ABC, NBC, CNN, and we have had many discussions over the years about selling journalism. We talked about photo familiarity and she says in this case the story was built on sensationalism and manipulation was used to drive emotion, draw controversy, and boost ratings..

True story..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Here's a portrayal of a man accused of killing his GF and the victim:http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Benjamin%20and%20Kayla.png

An interesting tidbit of info. The man in this story is claiming accidental shooting. On the same websites that were saying let Zimmerman tell his side of the story and we can't rush to judgment, they are saying the same thing about the accused here. No wait, they aren't. They are saying this girl is dead because of the liberal agenda and she should've been afraid to date a black man in the first place.

 

[Ilov80s]

"NBC News has admitted it erred and has apologized for editing a recording of George Zimmerman's call to police the night he shot Trayvon Martin.

In a news report last week, NBC's "Today" show aired its edited version of Zimmerman's call. The recording viewers heard was trimmed to suggest that Zimmerman volunteered to police, with no prompting, that Martin was black. But the portion of the tape that was cut out had the 911 dispatcher asking Zimmerman if the person who had raised his suspicion was "black, white or Hispanic..."

http://www.chron.com/news/article/NBC-News-apologizes-for-editing-tape-of-911-call-3457072.php

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I just want to say that I stick by that statement. Martin was walking home from the store and now he's dead because Zimmerman and his gun inserted themselves into his life. Who swung first, who was on top of who, and who was screaming don't matter to me at all.

Noted

I don't agree with PlasmaDogPlasma. It matters very much to me who screamed. I will say right now that if it were somehow proven that George Zimmerman was the one screaming, he is very likely innocent of any crime, as he probably considered his life was threatened. The fact that he precipitated the confrontation is irrelevant to me. On the other hand, if Trayvon was screaming I think that, while it's still very difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, you have to figure from common sense that Zimmerman committed a crime here, at least manslaughter, possible murder. It just doesn't make sense that Zimmerman believed his life is threatened and Martin is the one screaming.

So the screaming to me is a central issue that will decide this case, at least in my own mind.

This is a bizarre line to draw, but I can't say I'm surprised. The logical line would probably be where Zimmerman inserted himself and his gun into this kid's life wouldn't it?

People carry guns all over the united states.. They come into, and go out of your life all of the time.. If you jump on one of those guys and start beating the #### out of him, you better believe he's going to use it..

 

[cstu]

Re: the screaming.

1. If you believe Zimmerman is guilty, but you discovered that the screaming was Zimmerman, would you change your mind and decide that he very likely acted in self-defense?

2. If you believe Zimmerman is innocent, but you discovered that the screaming was Trayvon Martin, would you change your mind and decide Zimmerman is very likely guilty?

Either way you'd have to at least rethink it.. I for one don't think we'll ever know one way or the other but I think either option likely helps the case one way or the other..There will be conflicting "specialist" opinion during a trial, and I'm not sure even the "specialists" can really be certain either way. But if it'd found positive that Zimmerman was the screamer, I still don't think that proves he is innocent, and vis versa..

It certainly doesn't 'prove' anything but it doesn't make sense that he'd be screaming like a little girl at the same time he's being a cold-blooded killer. If it's Trayvon screaming it hard to believe that he was attacking Zimmerman enough that he'd fear for his life.

 

[cstu]

My uncles neighbors sister is a journalist, and works for ABC, NBC, CNN, and we have had many discussions over the years about selling journalism. We talked about photo familiarity and she says in this case the story was built on sensationalism and manipulation was used to drive emotion, draw controversy, and boost ratings..

True story..

It's all about the - to think anything else is naivety.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I just want to say that I stick by that statement. Martin was walking home from the store and now he's dead because Zimmerman and his gun inserted themselves into his life. Who swung first, who was on top of who, and who was screaming don't matter to me at all.

Noted

I don't agree with PlasmaDogPlasma. It matters very much to me who screamed. I will say right now that if it were somehow proven that George Zimmerman was the one screaming, he is very likely innocent of any crime, as he probably considered his life was threatened. The fact that he precipitated the confrontation is irrelevant to me. On the other hand, if Trayvon was screaming I think that, while it's still very difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, you have to figure from common sense that Zimmerman committed a crime here, at least manslaughter, possible murder. It just doesn't make sense that Zimmerman believed his life is threatened and Martin is the one screaming.

So the screaming to me is a central issue that will decide this case, at least in my own mind.

If this is true. I am curious to hear your opinion on my post before this one. Post 6849.

I don't really care much about the Neighborhood Watch guidelines and whether Zimmerman followed them. If a man with a gun follows an unarmed man and the result is the death of the unarmed man by shooting, the burden of proof is on the gunman to show that he was threatened in some way. If I don't see evidence of that (and in this case there is none) I'm going to be pretty sure that the guy with the gun is at fault.

I'm pretty sure we've heard of evidence the whole thread long... Witnesses of the altercation, audio of screaming, bloody/broken nose, grass stained jacket, cuts on back of head..There is all this smoke, but you say there is no fire..? How can you say with such certainty that there is no evidence?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

What you will not do is get physically involved with any activity you report or

apprehension of any suspicious persons. This is the job of the law enforcement agency.

Oops.

If Trayvon brought the physicality to Zimmerman, and there is no proof that he didn't, if Zimmerman did not try to apprehend Trayvon, and there is no proof that he did, and he called the police, which he did, then Zimmerman followed the guidelines?Whats your point? It has not been proven that Zimmerman started the altercation.. Just mob speculation..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Not sure what the controversy is here. Almost anytime there's a crime, the perp gets an unflattering photo and the victim gets a flattering photo. Let me know when you start your crusade against showing black perps in the worst light possible when being presented in the media and to let the police do their job before we jump to conclusions.

Portrayal of the Oakland shooter:http://media.mugshots.com/thumbs/gallery/images/6e/8c/One-Goh-mugshot-11788691.400x800.jpgPortrayal of the victims:http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1055471.1333543171!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_200/image.jpgPortrayal of the VT teacher murdered and her killers:http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/29/snow-plow-driver-charged-in-death-vermont-teacher-wanted-to-get-girl-police-say/Here's a portrayal of a man accused of killing his GF and the victim:http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Benjamin%20and%20Kayla.pngMEDIA CONSPIRACY!!

Whats your point? It's manipulation in most cases.. Not only this one.. Painting a picture of some vial creature sells the story about a bad man... Sensationalism, and manipulation..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

What you will not do is get physically involved with any activity you report or

apprehension of any suspicious persons. This is the job of the law enforcement agency.

Oops.

Link to where Zimmerman became physically involved or apprehended Trayvon before being attacked?

Link to explanation of what made Trayvon Martin a "situation"? Maybe he just had really nice abs and a venereal disease and Zimmerman got situation and "The Situation" confused?

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/NWProgramHandbook.pdf

Trust Your Instincts Call Immediately

Carrying, concealing or transporting anything unusual. Possible burglar carrying stolen property. - Zimmerman saw Trayvon had something rather large in his pocket. He reported it.

Loiters around schools, parks or on your street. Possible burglar, sex offense, drugs or arson.

Older children or adults, who are not from the neighborhood, bicycling randomly or repeatedly without a purposeful stination.

Possible theft of homes and/or garages.

Your police department appreciates you acting as their extra eyes and ears. Sometimes your suspicions are unfounded. If you are wrong, they understand you will not always be right, but you will not be in trouble with them. As a good citizen and a

Neighborhood Watch participant, your job is to give them the information you base your suspicions on.

 

[Clinton]

What you will not do is get physically involved with any activity you report

This is why I wouldn't report an orgy.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I just want to say that I stick by that statement. Martin was walking home from the store and now he's dead because Zimmerman and his gun inserted themselves into his life. Who swung first, who was on top of who, and who was screaming don't matter to me at all.

Noted

I don't agree with PlasmaDogPlasma. It matters very much to me who screamed. I will say right now that if it were somehow proven that George Zimmerman was the one screaming, he is very likely innocent of any crime, as he probably considered his life was threatened. The fact that he precipitated the confrontation is irrelevant to me. On the other hand, if Trayvon was screaming I think that, while it's still very difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, you have to figure from common sense that Zimmerman committed a crime here, at least manslaughter, possible murder. It just doesn't make sense that Zimmerman believed his life is threatened and Martin is the one screaming.

So the screaming to me is a central issue that will decide this case, at least in my own mind.

If this is true. I am curious to hear your opinion on my post before this one. Post 6849.

I don't really care much about the Neighborhood Watch guidelines and whether Zimmerman followed them. If a man with a gun follows an unarmed man and the result is the death of the unarmed man by shooting, the burden of proof is on the gunman to show that he was threatened in some way. If I don't see evidence of that (and in this case there is none) I'm going to be pretty sure that the guy with the gun is at fault.

The guidlines helps Zimmerman's credibility to his story. If he is the one screaming for help and follows this protocol to the "T", it makes his story more believable IMO. At first people were in an uproar that he was carrying or followed Trayvon. No where in the guidelines of the official Sanford police watch program does it say not too.

There was a video of not a scratch on Zimmerman. At that time people came to the conclusion that Zimmerman's story was BS. A week later there is a report that he was in fact treated at the scene and there were photos taken of his injury. Now the conversation turns immediately to the screams for help as Trayvon's.

We have some evidence that Zimmerman was on the bottom of a struggle. I have a hard time seeing Trayvon screaming for help while having Zimmerman pinned to the ground. Especially when the guidelines for the watch program says to scream for help to gain attention to the area and get the police to the scene.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/NWProgramHandbook.pdf

SCREAMS FOR HELP

Always assume the scream is real and someone desperately

needs help. Quickly try to determine the

location, source and nature of the scream and

immediately call the police. Heroes can be

wounded or killed. Remember that

apprehension is the job of your police

department.

Where does that tell you to scream for help? It says to call the cops if you hear somebody, not to scream yourself.

So you're saying he shouldn't have screamed for help?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

What you will not do is get physically involved with any activity you report or

apprehension of any suspicious persons. This is the job of the law enforcement agency.

Oops.

Link to where Zimmerman became physically involved or apprehended Trayvon before being attacked?

Trayvon's dead. Following him was physical involvement. These facts are not disputed by anyone.

And people were @ me for saying playing football means you have a history of violence.

He was probably one of them

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Sanford Neighborhood Watch Program

SCREAMS FOR HELP

Always assume

the scream is real and someone desperately

needs help. Quickly try to determine the

location, source and nature of the scream and

immediately call the police. Heroes can be

wounded or killed. Remember that

apprehension is the job of your police

department.

"Don't Hesitate to Call"

Reporting is the first step in

helping to stop crime.

You are making your

neighborhood a safer place

If the situation is routine, not

life threatening, then call the

non-emergency number,

688-5199. Remember: if you

are in doubt, call 911.

for you and your family

DO NOT

DELAY REPORTING. A few minutes

delay is enough time to reduce the chances of

ever catching the criminal. No exceptions to

this rule insures that:

I'm not saying everything Zimmerman did was right, but it seems to me he knew:1. to call the nonemergency number as Trayvon wasn't a threat at the start.

2. He says he got out of his car to tell the operator what corner he was on.

3. to scream for "help" when in trouble.

4. He frequently made calls for any suspicious activity including things listed on the site.

5. He talked to his neighbors frequently, so he knew them. Trayvon was not from his neighborhood.

6. It has been reported that he handed out fliers making people aware.

I read the entire thing and no where did it recommend to not carry a weapon. It does say not to get physically involved or not to apprehend the person. However, nowhere did I read that you should not follow the person to report activity.

Zimmerman seemed to follow this pretty throughly. Did he try to physically apprehend Trayvon? Maybe, that is where there is no facts to the case, but for someone so involved in this program. He should have known his limits as a watch person well.

Again, Not saying what Zimmerman is saying, or what is reported as what he is saying is fact. But does seem to follow this website for Neighborhood watch from the police department.

What you will not do is get physically involved with any activity you report or

apprehension of any suspicious persons. This is the job of the law enforcement agency.

Oops.

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

You mean Zimmerman's story?

Verses Texasfano2's story? Someone who wasn't even there....

 

[Carolina Hustler]

To expand on this:something my wife's aunt told me several years ago: according to studies that the networks do, if a viewer in his living room has a remote control and is fllipping channels (these days, this is not at random; the viewer has about a dozen or less channels that he watches on a regular basis and will flip between these to see what's on) he makes his decision about whether to stay on a channel in just a few seconds- that's it! That's why so many shows have logos at the bottom of the screen telling you what show you're watching today. And that's why, in the case of news shows, you will see a photograph behind (or alongside, as in split screen) the speaker that you instantly recognize. If you don't instantly recognize the photo, it's often too late; you're more likely to change the channel than you are to stay and figure out what's going on.

So again: Christo is wrong. The others who agree with him are wrong. Rush Limbaugh and other conservatives who keep bringing this issue up are wrong. The photos have nothing to do with shaping editorial comment, or public opinion. They have everything to do with familiarilty.

Convenient excuse.

I like it when Tim makes up fake stories.

I wanna know if Tim's Wife's aunt is black, or if she has any black friends.. I hope the story isn't over.. Need more details..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Sanford Neighborhood Watch Program

SCREAMS FOR HELP

Always assume

the scream is real and someone desperately

needs help. Quickly try to determine the

location, source and nature of the scream and

immediately call the police. Heroes can be

wounded or killed. Remember that

apprehension is the job of your police

department.

"Don't Hesitate to Call"

Reporting is the first step in

helping to stop crime.

You are making your

neighborhood a safer place

If the situation is routine, not

life threatening, then call the

non-emergency number,

688-5199. Remember: if you

are in doubt, call 911.

for you and your family

DO NOT

DELAY REPORTING. A few minutes

delay is enough time to reduce the chances of

ever catching the criminal. No exceptions to

this rule insures that:

I'm not saying everything Zimmerman did was right, but it seems to me he knew:1. to call the nonemergency number as Trayvon wasn't a threat at the start.

2. He says he got out of his car to tell the operator what corner he was on.

3. to scream for "help" when in trouble.

4. He frequently made calls for any suspicious activity including things listed on the site.

5. He talked to his neighbors frequently, so he knew them. Trayvon was not from his neighborhood.

6. It has been reported that he handed out fliers making people aware.

I read the entire thing and no where did it recommend to not carry a weapon. It does say not to get physically involved or not to apprehend the person. However, nowhere did I read that you should not follow the person to report activity.

Zimmerman seemed to follow this pretty throughly. Did he try to physically apprehend Trayvon? Maybe, that is where there is no facts to the case, but for someone so involved in this program. He should have known his limits as a watch person well.

Again, Not saying what Zimmerman is saying, or what is reported as what he is saying is fact. But does seem to follow this website for Neighborhood watch from the police department.

What you will not do is get physically involved with any activity you report or

apprehension of any suspicious persons. This is the job of the law enforcement agency.

Oops.

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

You mean Zimmerman's story?

Did he give an interview today?

I've only ever heard that "story" attributed to Zimmerman.

I've seen it in a few different articles.

Attributed to Zimmerman.

By a journalist.. Making it... 'The journalist's story'

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Sanford Neighborhood Watch Program

SCREAMS FOR HELP

Always assume

the scream is real and someone desperately

needs help. Quickly try to determine the

location, source and nature of the scream and

immediately call the police. Heroes can be

wounded or killed. Remember that

apprehension is the job of your police

department.

"Don't Hesitate to Call"

Reporting is the first step in

helping to stop crime.

You are making your

neighborhood a safer place

If the situation is routine, not

life threatening, then call the

non-emergency number,

688-5199. Remember: if you

are in doubt, call 911.

for you and your family

DO NOT

DELAY REPORTING. A few minutes

delay is enough time to reduce the chances of

ever catching the criminal. No exceptions to

this rule insures that:

I'm not saying everything Zimmerman did was right, but it seems to me he knew:1. to call the nonemergency number as Trayvon wasn't a threat at the start.

2. He says he got out of his car to tell the operator what corner he was on.

3. to scream for "help" when in trouble.

4. He frequently made calls for any suspicious activity including things listed on the site.

5. He talked to his neighbors frequently, so he knew them. Trayvon was not from his neighborhood.

6. It has been reported that he handed out fliers making people aware.

I read the entire thing and no where did it recommend to not carry a weapon. It does say not to get physically involved or not to apprehend the person. However, nowhere did I read that you should not follow the person to report activity.

Zimmerman seemed to follow this pretty throughly. Did he try to physically apprehend Trayvon? Maybe, that is where there is no facts to the case, but for someone so involved in this program. He should have known his limits as a watch person well.

Again, Not saying what Zimmerman is saying, or what is reported as what he is saying is fact. But does seem to follow this website for Neighborhood watch from the police department.

It doesn't seem like he was familiar with the list of suspicious activities.

Time is critical in apprehending criminals. The

following is a list of suspicious activities and the criminal activity that might be

happening:

 Gathering (loitering) for an extended or

unusual period of time.

Possible burglary, arson, or drug dealing.

 Behaving strangely.

Possibly on drugs or illegal activity.

 With any sort of weapon(s).

Possibly planning any number of crimes.

 Carrying, concealing or transporting

anything unusual.

Possible burglar carrying stolen property.

 Looking into cars.

Possibly casing cars for theft of car or its

contents.

 Selling or conducting business on a street

corner, park or other place where business is

not licensed.

 Running, especially if carrying something of

value.

Possible suspect fleeing scene of crime.

 Creating any type of disturbance

Disturbing the Peace or covering up noise of

some other activity.

 Going door to door, especially if someone

goes to the rear of the residence.

Possibly casing the neighborhood.

 Loiters around schools, parks or on your

street.

Possible burglar, sex offense, drugs or arson.

Ding Ding Ding... Does this not remind you of anything Zimmerman said during the taped call?

 

[TexanFan02]

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

There is only one story saying that -- George Zimmerman's story. It is repeated a lot, that one story.

That's not George Zimmerman's story. That's the story a police officer told a grief stricken Tracy Martin the day after the shooting was George's story. It seems to have suffered in translation. It's more likely George's actual story is the one where Trayvon approaches him from behind and left on the sidewalk between the buildings, and that was the first and basically final contact.

How could you possibly know which one is most likely Zimmerman's story when there are so many varying accounts out there? How do you know it's not this:

Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

Only possible way to know which iteration of the confrontation Zimmerman claims is true is to hear it from his own mouth. All the family members, lawyers and investigators accounts don't mean jack. Just like our own.

Hold it. I thought there was just one story.

I've been surprised at the different versions myself. Not very consistent to me, but perhaps you meant this for someone else?

Everyone who has insisted to me for the last few pages that there is only one story for Zimmerman.

Not true, but nice way to twist it.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

There is only one story saying that -- George Zimmerman's story. It is repeated a lot, that one story.

That's not George Zimmerman's story. That's the story a police officer told a grief stricken Tracy Martin the day after the shooting was George's story. It seems to have suffered in translation. It's more likely George's actual story is the one where Trayvon approaches him from behind and left on the sidewalk between the buildings, and that was the first and basically final contact.

How could you possibly know which one is most likely Zimmerman's story when there are so many varying accounts out there? How do you know it's not this:

Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

Only possible way to know which iteration of the confrontation Zimmerman claims is true is to hear it from his own mouth. All the family members, lawyers and investigators accounts don't mean jack. Just like our own.

Hold it. I thought there was just one story.

Zimmerman's story?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Re: the screaming.

1. If you believe Zimmerman is guilty, but you discovered that the screaming was Zimmerman, would you change your mind and decide that he very likely acted in self-defense?

2. If you believe Zimmerman is innocent, but you discovered that the screaming was Trayvon Martin, would you change your mind and decide Zimmerman is very likely guilty?

Either way you'd have to at least rethink it.. I for one don't think we'll ever know one way or the other but I think either option likely helps the case one way or the other..There will be conflicting "specialist" opinion during a trial, and I'm not sure even the "specialists" can really be certain either way. But if it'd found positive that Zimmerman was the screamer, I still don't think that proves he is innocent, and vis versa..

It certainly doesn't 'prove' anything but it doesn't make sense that he'd be screaming like a little girl at the same time he's being a cold-blooded killer. If it's Trayvon screaming it hard to believe that he was attacking Zimmerman enough that he'd fear for his life.

Zimmerman could have had 2 hands full of hoodie trying not to let him get away and screaming for someone to come help him stop Trayvon, the suspect, from leaving before police arrived.. Looking at other evidence submitted, that doesn't seem likely, but that is a possible reason to be screaming, if you tried to apprehend a guy..

 

[Christo]

I've been surprised at the different versions myself. Not very consistent to me, but perhaps you meant this for someone else?

Everyone who has insisted to me for the last few pages that there is only one story for Zimmerman.

Not true, but nice way to twist it.

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

You mean Zimmerman's story?

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

There is only one story saying that -- George Zimmerman's story. It is repeated a lot, that one story.

 

[TexanFan02]

I've been surprised at the different versions myself. Not very consistent to me, but perhaps you meant this for someone else?

Everyone who has insisted to me for the last few pages that there is only one story for Zimmerman.

Not true, but nice way to twist it.

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

You mean Zimmerman's story?

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

There is only one story saying that -- George Zimmerman's story. It is repeated a lot, that one story.

We were talking about his story that he was walking back to his truck. Not the one where he said Martin assaulted him from behind. Which contradicts the one where he said he and Martin spoke first. Zimmerman's got a lot of different stories.

 

[GTBilly]

Have we solved anything yet? Is Zim still a racist, trigger happy loonie and Tray still a babyfaced perfect child who was going to be president? Is Tim still going on about Institutional Racism? Is it all Hitler's fault yet?

 

[TexanFan02]

Have we solved anything yet? Is Zim still a racist, trigger happy loonie and Tray still a babyfaced perfect child who was going to be president? Is Tim still going on about Institutional Racism? Is it all Hitler's fault yet?

Nope, Zimmerman's an upstanding citizen who should get a medal and the media killed Trayvon.

 

[identikit]

Have we solved anything yet? Is Zim still a racist, trigger happy loonie and Tray still a babyfaced perfect child who was going to be president? Is Tim still going on about Institutional Racism? Is it all Hitler's fault yet?

Missing Tim's black friends and his relatives (by marriage) that have vital insight into this specific case.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I've been surprised at the different versions myself. Not very consistent to me, but perhaps you meant this for someone else?

Everyone who has insisted to me for the last few pages that there is only one story for Zimmerman.

Not true, but nice way to twist it.

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

You mean Zimmerman's story?

And if the stories saying he was headed back to his truck and Martin approached him and spoke to him are right, it seems he complied with that requirement too.

There is only one story saying that -- George Zimmerman's story. It is repeated a lot, that one story.

We were talking about his story that he was walking back to his truck. Not the one where he said Martin assaulted him from behind. Which contradicts the one where he said he and Martin spoke first. Zimmerman's got a lot of different stories.

Zimmerman has yet to report his story..

 

[timschochet]

Excellent article by Waymon Hudson, LGBT rights activist:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/waymon-hudson/trayvon-martin-white-privilege_b_1401107.html

I've really struggled as a writer to talk about the tragic shooting of unarmed Florida teen Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman, who has still not been arrested or even charged. While media discussions swirl about so many other issues, for me it boils down to a central point that, according to 911 calls, Trayvon Martin was viewed as "suspicious" by Zimmerman simply for being black. And that basic issue, the scary look at how race can dangerously shape perceptions with deadly results, is what has struck me to the core.

You see, I have a black son.

Back when we lived in Florida, my husband and I became foster parents to a young black teen who needed a home. He joined us when he was 16 and we quickly built a family together. While he may have long ago grown up and moved out, he is still part of our family and always will be.

It is his face that I see when I see Trayvon Martin. The face that I drove to school every day. The face of a son that whose tie I tied for prom. The face that we laughed and cried with. I cannot even begin to fathom what Travyon's parent are going through -- trying to imagine their pain chills me to the bone.

This death, and the injustice of the response, should chill us all. The shooting, and the ugly racial attitudes that appear to have led to the targeting of Trayvon, should make us all take a step back and really examine the tough issues at the heart of it all.

To be blunt, seeing the world through my son's eyes was a huge teachable moment for me. I had no clue what it was like to be a young black man in America today. While I liked to think of myself as 'evolved and aware' of racism, the day to day experience of having women clutch their purses when my son walked by or having security guards follow us in stores was still shocking. I even watched a bank refuse to open an account for my son until I came in with him. Long talks with him about the suspicion and danger faced by people of color on a daily basis gave me insights not only into his experience, but into my own position of blind privilege as a white man.

And that's the point -- I still don't know what it's like to be a person of color in America. I never will. But I can open myself to the thoughts, feelings, and struggles of others that are different than me and accept their life experiences that I can never fully understand.

While America could be having this very same teachable moment by listening and accepting the life experiences of others, of people like Trayvon and my son, it seems we're not. Here in Illinois, for example, Rep. Rich Morthland (R-Cordova) has said that while Trayvon's killing was a 'tragedy,' he intends to reintroduce a "Stand Your Ground" bill, similar to Florida's. But the refusal to learn from, or even listen to, the experience of black Americans goes far beyond tone-deaf politicians -- it's all of us.

It's never an easy thing to talk about the ugly side of our society. Shining an uncomfortable light on things like racism, social injustice, and ingrained bias make us see the faults in ourselves. We see our failings, no matter how 'evolved and aware' we think we are, and it hurts. But that pain is nothing compared to the pain Trayvon Martin's parents feel at his death -- or the pain that every parent feels as they have to look into the eyes of their child as they try to explain the hate they will always face simply for the color of their skin.

Admitting the role we all play in creating the atmosphere that led to Trayvon's death is hard, but it is a small step in trying to learn and change. We owe all our kids, and each other, at least that much.

 

[timschochet]

I hope a lot of people will read that article. That guy said everything that needs to be said.

 

[TexanFan02]

Excellent article by Waymon Hudson, LGBT rights activist:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/waymon-hudson/trayvon-martin-white-privilege_b_1401107.html

Here in Illinois, for example, Rep. Rich Morthland (R-Cordova) has said that while Trayvon's killing was a 'tragedy,' he intends to reintroduce a "Stand Your Ground" bill, similar to Florida's.

What a moron.

 

[timschochet]

Excellent article by Waymon Hudson, LGBT rights activist:

http://www.huffingto..._b_1401107.html

Here in Illinois, for example, Rep. Rich Morthland (R-Cordova) has said that while Trayvon's killing was a 'tragedy,' he intends to reintroduce a "Stand Your Ground" bill, similar to Florida's.

What a moron.

Amazing isn't it?

 

[TexanFan02]

Excellent article by Waymon Hudson, LGBT rights activist:

http://www.huffingto..._b_1401107.html

Here in Illinois, for example, Rep. Rich Morthland (R-Cordova) has said that while Trayvon's killing was a 'tragedy,' he intends to reintroduce a "Stand Your Ground" bill, similar to Florida's.

What a moron.

Amazing isn't it?

From the far right? Can't say I'm surprised.

 

[Statorama]

for me it boils down to a central point that, according to 911 calls, Trayvon Martin was viewed as "suspicious" by Zimmerman simply for being black.

No reason to read beyond this false media driven narrative.

 

[timschochet]

for me it boils down to a central point that, according to 911 calls, Trayvon Martin was viewed as "suspicious" by Zimmerman simply for being black.

No reason to read beyond this false media driven narrative.

That's really too bad. You might not agree with that point (though I do), but it's an excellent read nonetheless.