Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[TexanFan02]

for me it boils down to a central point that, according to 911 calls, Trayvon Martin was viewed as "suspicious" by Zimmerman simply for being black.

No reason to read beyond this false media driven narrative.

Oh hai, Stat. Christo has already exceeded the schtick max in this thread, you won't be needed.

 

[Borat]

Have we solved anything yet? Is Zim still a racist, trigger happy loonie and Tray still a babyfaced perfect child who was going to be president? Is Tim still going on about Institutional Racism? Is it all Hitler's fault yet?

This thread is basically exactly what you'd expect it would be.

 

[cstu]

To be blunt, seeing the world through my son's eyes was a huge teachable moment for me. I had no clue what it was like to be a young black man in America today. While I liked to think of myself as 'evolved and aware' of racism, the day to day experience of having women clutch their purses when my son walked by or having security guards follow us in stores was still shocking. I even watched a bank refuse to open an account for my son until I came in with him. Long talks with him about the suspicion and danger faced by people of color on a daily basis gave me insights not only into his experience, but into my own position of blind privilege as a white man.

I can't jump, I can't dance, I sound ridiculous using any type of slang, but ### #### it, I can shoplift all day without anyone suspecting a thing. Membership does indeed have its privileges.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Excellent article by Waymon Hudson, LGBT rights activist:

http://www.huffingto..._b_1401107.html

Here in Illinois, for example, Rep. Rich Morthland (R-Cordova) has said that while Trayvon's killing was a 'tragedy,' he intends to reintroduce a "Stand Your Ground" bill, similar to Florida's.

What a moron.

Amazing isn't it?

From the far right? Can't say I'm surprised.

Not one bit.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The echo of Martin's last words ring in my head. It rained that night. A drizzle. Not a downpour, just a Memphis, Tennessee drizzle. It seemed like he knew. It seemed like someone had let him know. His words that night would be his last. Th...e mountaintop. Not getting there with us. But, as a people, we would get there. Somehow we would get to the top of that mountain without Martin. He told us that, that night, his last night. And we believed him.

I can't get the image out of my head of the bag of Skittles and the can of ice tea falling to the ground. It rained that night too. A drizzle. Not a downpour, just a Sanford, Florida drizzle. Damn, I wish he knew. I wish he knew that this would be his last. The game. His last game. Kobe. LeBron. D Wade. Just a quick walk to the store and back. Put the hoodie up 'cause of the drizzle. Pop. One Pop. Young Martin. Silent. I wish he knew 44 years later, we hadn't made it to the top of the mountain.

 

[Underachievers]

The echo of Martin's last words ring in my head. It rained that night. A drizzle. Not a downpour, just a Memphis, Tennessee drizzle. It seemed like he knew. It seemed like someone had let him know. His words that night would be his last. Th...e mountaintop. Not getting there with us. But, as a people, we would get there. Somehow we would get to the top of that mountain without Martin. He told us that, that night, his last night. And we believed him.I can't get the image out of my head of the bag of Skittles and the can of ice tea falling to the ground. It rained that night too. A drizzle. Not a downpour, just a Sanford, Florida drizzle. Damn, I wish he knew. I wish he knew that this would be his last. The game. His last game. Kobe. LeBron. D Wade. Just a quick walk to the store and back. Put the hoodie up 'cause of the drizzle. Pop. One Pop. Young Martin. Silent. I wish he knew 44 years later, we hadn't made it to the top of the mountain.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The echo of Martin's last words ring in my head. It rained that night. A drizzle. Not a downpour, just a Memphis, Tennessee drizzle. It seemed like he knew. It seemed like someone had let him know. His words that night would be his last. Th...e mountaintop. Not getting there with us. But, as a people, we would get there. Somehow we would get to the top of that mountain without Martin. He told us that, that night, his last night. And we believed him.I can't get the image out of my head of the bag of Skittles and the can of ice tea falling to the ground. It rained that night too. A drizzle. Not a downpour, just a Sanford, Florida drizzle. Damn, I wish he knew. I wish he knew that this would be his last. The game. His last game. Kobe. LeBron. D Wade. Just a quick walk to the store and back. Put the hoodie up 'cause of the drizzle. Pop. One Pop. Young Martin. Silent. I wish he knew 44 years later, we hadn't made it to the top of the mountain.

i got a kick outa it also

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The echo of Martin's last words ring in my head. It rained that night. A drizzle. Not a downpour, just a Memphis, Tennessee drizzle. It seemed like he knew. It seemed like someone had let him know. His words that night would be his last. Th...e mountaintop. Not getting there with us. But, as a people, we would get there. Somehow we would get to the top of that mountain without Martin. He told us that, that night, his last night. And we believed him.I can't get the image out of my head of the bag of Skittles and the can of ice tea falling to the ground. It rained that night too. A drizzle. Not a downpour, just a Sanford, Florida drizzle. Damn, I wish he knew. I wish he knew that this would be his last. The game. His last game. Kobe. LeBron. D Wade. Just a quick walk to the store and back. Put the hoodie up 'cause of the drizzle. Pop. One Pop. Young Martin. Silent. I wish he knew 44 years later, we hadn't made it to the top of the mountain.

Did you write this? Or is this copied from somewhere? If you did write this, is it schtick, or are you serious? Not making light of it... I just think it could go either way..

 

[The Comedian]

Who posted in: Florida boy killed by Neighborhood WatchMember name PostsChristo 793Carolina Hustler 524

Oof, I think I'll pass on this thread.

 

[FavreCo]

Have we solved anything yet? Is Zim still a racist, trigger happy loonie and Tray still a babyfaced perfect child who was going to be president? Is Tim still going on about Institutional Racism? Is it all Hitler's fault yet?

.

 

[Courtjester]

I hope a lot of people will read that article. That guy said everything that needs to be said.

I read the article and it is dumb.(And obviously written before NBC came forward and admitted they doctored the 911 call.)"I have a dream...a dream Tim will stop cutting and posting every little thing he finds interesting on the internet"

 

[The Commish]

People carry guns all over the united states..

Who said they didn't?

They come into, and go out of your life all of the time..

I've never had a stranger do this. I must be lucky. Either that or you have an incredibly disingenuous definition of "come into, and go out of"

If you jump on one of those guys and start beating the #### out of him, you better believe he's going to use it..

I'd hope so.Now....what does ANY of this have to do with what I posted?

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

I haven't read this in about 15 pages or so. Do we all now agree that Zimmerman did have an injury to the back of his head?

 

[Da Guru]

I haven't read this in about 15 pages or so. Do we all now agree that Zimmerman did have an injury to the back of his head?

Yes..Looked like a pretty nasty gash on the news last night.

 

[Clinton]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

The absurdity of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton is that they want to make a movement out of an anomaly. Black teenagers today are afraid of other black teenagers, not whites.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303302504577323691134926300.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

Two tragedies are apparent in the Trayvon Martin case. The first is obvious: A teenager—unarmed and committing no crime—was shot dead. Dressed in a "hoodie," a costume of menace, he crossed paths with a man on the hunt for precisely such clichés of menace. Added to this—and here is the rub—was the fact of his dark skin.

Maybe it was more the hood than the dark skin, but who could argue that the skin did not enhance the menace of the hood at night and in the eyes of someone watching for crime. (Fifty-five percent of all federal prisoners are black though we are only 12% of the population.) Would Trayvon be alive today had he been walking home—Skittles and ice tea in hand—wearing a polo shirt with an alligator logo? Possibly. And does this make the ugly point that dark skin late at night needs to have its menace softened by some show of Waspy Americana? Possibly.

What is fundamentally tragic here is that these two young males first encountered each other as provocations. Males are males, and threat often evokes a narcissistic anger that skips right past reason and into a will to annihilate: "I will take you out!" There was a terrible fight. Trayvon apparently got the drop on George Zimmerman, but ultimately the man with the gun prevailed. Annihilation was achieved.

If this was all there was to it, the Trayvon/Zimmerman story would be no more than a cautionary tale, yet another admonition against the hair-trigger male ego. But this story brought reaction from the White House: "If I had a son he would look like Trayvon," said the president. The Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, ubiquitous icons of black protest, virtually battled each other to stand at the bereaved family's side—Mr. Jackson, in a moment of inadvertent honesty, saying, "There is power in blood . . . we must turn a moment into a movement." And then there was the spectacle of black Democrats in Congress holding hearings on racial profiling with Trayvon's parents featured as celebrities.

In fact Trayvon's sad fate clearly sent a quiver of perverse happiness all across America's civil rights establishment, and throughout the mainstream media as well. His death was vindication of the "poetic truth" that these establishments live by. Poetic truth is like poetic license where one breaks grammatical rules for effect. Better to break the rule than lose the effect. Poetic truth lies just a little; it bends the actual truth in order to highlight what it believes is a larger and more important truth.

The civil rights community and the liberal media live by the poetic truth that America is still a reflexively racist society, and that this remains the great barrier to black equality. But this "truth" has a lot of lie in it. America has greatly evolved since the 1960s. There are no longer any respectable advocates of racial segregation. And blacks today are nine times more likely to be killed by other blacks than by whites.

If Trayvon Martin was a victim of white racism (hard to conceive since the shooter is apparently Hispanic), his murder would be an anomaly, not a commonplace. It would be a bizarre exception to the way so many young black males are murdered today. If there must be a generalization in all this—a call "to turn the moment into a movement"— it would have to be a movement against blacks who kill other blacks. The absurdity of Messrs. Jackson and Sharpton is that they want to make a movement out of an anomaly. Black teenagers today are afraid of other black teenagers, not whites.

So the idea that Trayvon Martin is today's Emmett Till, as the Rev. Jackson has said, suggests nothing less than a stubborn nostalgia for America's racist past. In that bygone era civil rights leaders and white liberals stood on the highest moral ground. They literally knew themselves—given their genuine longing to see racism overcome—as historically transformative people. If the world resisted them, as it surely did, it only made them larger than life.

It was a time when standing on the side of the good required true selflessness and so it ennobled people. And this chance to ennoble oneself through a courageous moral stand is what so many blacks and white liberals miss today—now that white racism is such a defeated idea. There is a nostalgia for that time when posture alone ennobled. So today even the hint of old-fashioned raw racism excites with its potential for ennoblement.

For the Revs. Jackson and Sharpton, for the increasingly redundant civil rights establishment, for liberal blacks and the broader American left, the poetic truth that white racism is somehow the real culprit in this tragedy is redemption itself. The reason Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have become such disreputable figures on our cultural landscape is that they are such quick purveyors of poetic truth rather than literal truth.

The great trick of poetic truth is to pass itself off as the deep and essential truth so that hard facts that refute it must be dismissed in the name of truth. O.J. Simpson was innocent by the poetic truth that the justice system is stacked against blacks. Trayvon was a victim of racist stereotyping—though the shooter never mentioned his race until asked to do so.

There is now a long litany of racial dust-ups—from Tawana Brawley to the Duke University lacrosse players to the white Cambridge police officer who arrested Harvard professor Skip Gates a summer ago—in which the poetic truth of white racism and black victimization is invoked so that the actual truth becomes dismissible as yet more racism.

When the Cambridge cop or the Duke lacrosse players or the men accused of raping Tawana Brawley tried to defend themselves, they were already so stained by poetic truth as to never be entirely redeemed. No matter the facts—whether Trayvon Martin was his victim or his assailant—George Zimmerman will also never be entirely redeemed.

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

 

[VA703]

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[Da Guru]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

The absurdity of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton is that they want to make a movement out of an anomaly. Black teenagers today are afraid of other black teenagers, not whites.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303302504577323691134926300.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

Two tragedies are apparent in the Trayvon Martin case. The first is obvious: A teenager—unarmed and committing no crime—was shot dead. Dressed in a "hoodie," a costume of menace, he crossed paths with a man on the hunt for precisely such clichés of menace. Added to this—and here is the rub—was the fact of his dark skin.

Maybe it was more the hood than the dark skin, but who could argue that the skin did not enhance the menace of the hood at night and in the eyes of someone watching for crime. (Fifty-five percent of all federal prisoners are black though we are only 12% of the population.) Would Trayvon be alive today had he been walking home—Skittles and ice tea in hand—wearing a polo shirt with an alligator logo? Possibly. And does this make the ugly point that dark skin late at night needs to have its menace softened by some show of Waspy Americana? Possibly.

What is fundamentally tragic here is that these two young males first encountered each other as provocations. Males are males, and threat often evokes a narcissistic anger that skips right past reason and into a will to annihilate: "I will take you out!" There was a terrible fight. Trayvon apparently got the drop on George Zimmerman, but ultimately the man with the gun prevailed. Annihilation was achieved.

If this was all there was to it, the Trayvon/Zimmerman story would be no more than a cautionary tale, yet another admonition against the hair-trigger male ego. But this story brought reaction from the White House: "If I had a son he would look like Trayvon," said the president. The Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, ubiquitous icons of black protest, virtually battled each other to stand at the bereaved family's side—Mr. Jackson, in a moment of inadvertent honesty, saying, "There is power in blood . . . we must turn a moment into a movement." And then there was the spectacle of black Democrats in Congress holding hearings on racial profiling with Trayvon's parents featured as celebrities.

In fact Trayvon's sad fate clearly sent a quiver of perverse happiness all across America's civil rights establishment, and throughout the mainstream media as well. His death was vindication of the "poetic truth" that these establishments live by. Poetic truth is like poetic license where one breaks grammatical rules for effect. Better to break the rule than lose the effect. Poetic truth lies just a little; it bends the actual truth in order to highlight what it believes is a larger and more important truth.

The civil rights community and the liberal media live by the poetic truth that America is still a reflexively racist society, and that this remains the great barrier to black equality. But this "truth" has a lot of lie in it. America has greatly evolved since the 1960s. There are no longer any respectable advocates of racial segregation. And blacks today are nine times more likely to be killed by other blacks than by whites.

If Trayvon Martin was a victim of white racism (hard to conceive since the shooter is apparently Hispanic), his murder would be an anomaly, not a commonplace. It would be a bizarre exception to the way so many young black males are murdered today. If there must be a generalization in all this—a call "to turn the moment into a movement"— it would have to be a movement against blacks who kill other blacks. The absurdity of Messrs. Jackson and Sharpton is that they want to make a movement out of an anomaly. Black teenagers today are afraid of other black teenagers, not whites.

So the idea that Trayvon Martin is today's Emmett Till, as the Rev. Jackson has said, suggests nothing less than a stubborn nostalgia for America's racist past. In that bygone era civil rights leaders and white liberals stood on the highest moral ground. They literally knew themselves—given their genuine longing to see racism overcome—as historically transformative people. If the world resisted them, as it surely did, it only made them larger than life.

It was a time when standing on the side of the good required true selflessness and so it ennobled people. And this chance to ennoble oneself through a courageous moral stand is what so many blacks and white liberals miss today—now that white racism is such a defeated idea. There is a nostalgia for that time when posture alone ennobled. So today even the hint of old-fashioned raw racism excites with its potential for ennoblement.

For the Revs. Jackson and Sharpton, for the increasingly redundant civil rights establishment, for liberal blacks and the broader American left, the poetic truth that white racism is somehow the real culprit in this tragedy is redemption itself. The reason Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have become such disreputable figures on our cultural landscape is that they are such quick purveyors of poetic truth rather than literal truth.

The great trick of poetic truth is to pass itself off as the deep and essential truth so that hard facts that refute it must be dismissed in the name of truth. O.J. Simpson was innocent by the poetic truth that the justice system is stacked against blacks. Trayvon was a victim of racist stereotyping—though the shooter never mentioned his race until asked to do so.

There is now a long litany of racial dust-ups—from Tawana Brawley to the Duke University lacrosse players to the white Cambridge police officer who arrested Harvard professor Skip Gates a summer ago—in which the poetic truth of white racism and black victimization is invoked so that the actual truth becomes dismissible as yet more racism.

When the Cambridge cop or the Duke lacrosse players or the men accused of raping Tawana Brawley tried to defend themselves, they were already so stained by poetic truth as to never be entirely redeemed. No matter the facts—whether Trayvon Martin was his victim or his assailant—George Zimmerman will also never be entirely redeemed.

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

Good read..

 

[renesauz]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

We need more black leadrs like this, and fewer Jackson's and Sharpton's. Outstanding piece.

 

[TexanFan02]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

We need more black leadrs like this, and fewer Jackson's and Sharpton's. Outstanding piece.

I think the tragedy is that a 17 year old is dead. Both sides are wrong in focusing on the race issue.

 

[renesauz]

I think the tragedy is that a 17 year old is dead. Both sides are wrong in focusing on the race issue.

Agreed...but I think that's part of what the writer was trying to say.

 

[Clinton]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

We need more black leadrs like this, and fewer Jackson's and Sharpton's. Outstanding piece.

I think the tragedy is that a 17 year old is dead. Both sides are wrong in focusing on the race issue.

Your moral equivalence is wrong, and that's the point of the article. One side is trying to make it a race issue, the other side is defending themselves from the accusation. But for the original accusation, the other side would not have to defend on racial grounds.I also think it's unfair to describe Steele as a black leader. He's biracial (half black-half white), and it's that combination that gives him a unique perspective on both sides of the issue.

 

[ATC1]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

The absurdity of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton is that they want to make a movement out of an anomaly. Black teenagers today are afraid of other black teenagers, not whites.

But this story brought reaction from the White House: "If I had a son he would look like Trayvon," said the president.

I saw a man with a tee shirt on yesterday. "If I had a son....He'd shoot like George Zimmerman." Some people just don't give a ####. It's sad.

 

[timschochet]

The article is ultimately wrong. Yes, there is certainly exploitation going on. But this story IS at heart a racial one, and attempts to deny it are absurd IMO. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he was white. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that if Zimmerman was black, he'd be behind bars right now. Maybe he'd be able to use the Stand Your Ground defense at at trial, but right now he'd be in jail waiting for that trial.

Blacks are rightfully outraged about this case because in general, the police in our nation do not treat black people well, and there is a double standard. Until everyone, including conservatives, realize this and try to do something to change it, stories like this one will always spark a fire, as they should.

 

[TexanFan02]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

We need more black leadrs like this, and fewer Jackson's and Sharpton's. Outstanding piece.

I think the tragedy is that a 17 year old is dead. Both sides are wrong in focusing on the race issue.

Your moral equivalence is wrong, and that's the point of the article. One side is trying to make it a race issue, the other side is defending themselves from the accusation. But for the original accusation, the other side would not have to defend on racial grounds.I also think it's unfair to describe Steele as a black leader. He's biracial (half black-half white), and it's that combination that gives him a unique perspective on both sides of the issue.

Classic, coming from you.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Here's a portrayal of a man accused of killing his GF and the victim:http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Benjamin%20and%20Kayla.png

An interesting tidbit of info. The man in this story is claiming accidental shooting. On the same websites that were saying let Zimmerman tell his side of the story and we can't rush to judgment, they are saying the same thing about the accused here. No wait, they aren't. They are saying this girl is dead because of the liberal agenda and she should've been afraid to date a black man in the first place.

I agree, it's a terrible thing to say.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

We need more black leadrs like this, and fewer Jackson's and Sharpton's. Outstanding piece.

I think the tragedy is that a 17 year old is dead. Both sides are wrong in focusing on the race issue.

Amen.

 

[timschochet]

Why are people trying so hard to deny that this whole story centers on race?

 

[timschochet]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

We need more black leadrs like this, and fewer Jackson's and Sharpton's. Outstanding piece.

I think the tragedy is that a 17 year old is dead. Both sides are wrong in focusing on the race issue.

Amen.

I am not wrong in focusing on the race issue.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Why are people trying so hard to deny that this whole story centers on race?

You love feeding the populist agenda.

 

[Da Guru]

The article is ultimately wrong. Yes, there is certainly exploitation going on. But this story IS at heart a racial one, and attempts to deny it are absurd IMO. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he was white. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that if Zimmerman was black, he'd be behind bars right now. Maybe he'd be able to use the Stand Your Ground defense at at trial, but right now he'd be in jail waiting for that trial. Blacks are rightfully outraged about this case because in general, the police in our nation do not treat black people well, and there is a double standard. Until everyone, including conservatives, realize this and try to do something to change it, stories like this one will always spark a fire, as they should.

Pure speculation Tim. If a black man had shot a hispanic man with the exact same details how would any of us know what the result would be?

 

[Clinton]

The article is ultimately wrong. Yes, there is certainly exploitation going on. But this story IS at heart a racial one, and attempts to deny it are absurd IMO. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he was white. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that if Zimmerman was black, he'd be behind bars right now. Maybe he'd be able to use the Stand Your Ground defense at at trial, but right now he'd be in jail waiting for that trial. Blacks are rightfully outraged about this case because in general, the police in our nation do not treat black people well, and there is a double standard. Until everyone, including conservatives, realize this and try to do something to change it, stories like this one will always spark a fire, as they should.

Even if we accept what you said to be true, the fact remains that1) The overwhelming majority of black youth killed (according to FBI statistics) are killed by other black youth.  Yet there is little criticism from the black community.(2) The majority of hate crimes (according to FBI statistics) are perpetrated by black people against other races.   Yet there is little criticism from the black community.(3) The majority of blatant racism currently going on in America are the black mob attacks that I've substantiated despite the personal attacks.For these reasons, I put more stock in Steele'd comments than your comments.  No offense or anything.

 

[Slapdash]

Who posted in: Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch

Member name Posts

Christo 793

Carolina Hustler 524

BustedKnuckles 435

timschochet 322

TexanFan02 295

SacramentoBob 224

Chaos Commish 201

Fennis 186

renesauz 175

BigSteelThrill 172

Clinton 149

Slapdash 124

Neofight 124

ATC1 123

Clifford 119

WhatDoIKnow 110 #16

I believe at one time I was #12 on the list. Unlike a college football team, I am looking forward to dropping out of the top 20.

This

 

[timschochet]

Why are people trying so hard to deny that this whole story centers on race?

You love feeding the populist agenda.

Ahhh- you know how to get to me, you really do. Well first, there is no "populist" agenda. Populism is anarchy- one of the reasons I hate it is that it always runs amok. I detest the fact that this situation has become so populist in nature. But there are reasons that it has. We need to explore these reasons, and try to solve them, in order to prevent populism. The main reason this story is populist is because it's representative of a double standard of treatment by police toward black people. The anger here is that the police let this guy get away with it, and that would not have happened to a black guy who committed the same act.

 

[Charlie Frown]

Excellent article by Waymon Hudson, LGBT rights activist:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/waymon-hudson/trayvon-martin-white-privilege_b_1401107.html

I've really struggled as a writer to talk about the tragic shooting of unarmed Florida teen Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman, who has still not been arrested or even charged. While media discussions swirl about so many other issues, for me it boils down to a central point that, according to 911 calls, Trayvon Martin was viewed as "suspicious" by Zimmerman simply for being black. And that basic issue, the scary look at how race can dangerously shape perceptions with deadly results, is what has struck me to the core.

I had to stop reading here.More speculation without any facts.

 

[TexanFan02]

Why are people trying so hard to deny that this whole story centers on race?

Because it doesn't. It's about a dead 17 year old and a terrible law.

 

[timschochet]

The article is ultimately wrong. Yes, there is certainly exploitation going on. But this story IS at heart a racial one, and attempts to deny it are absurd IMO. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he was white. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that if Zimmerman was black, he'd be behind bars right now. Maybe he'd be able to use the Stand Your Ground defense at at trial, but right now he'd be in jail waiting for that trial. Blacks are rightfully outraged about this case because in general, the police in our nation do not treat black people well, and there is a double standard. Until everyone, including conservatives, realize this and try to do something to change it, stories like this one will always spark a fire, as they should.

Pure speculation Tim. If a black man had shot a hispanic man with the exact same details how would any of us know what the result would be?

I think that the number of blacks who are arrested every year back up this speculation. I think that it's a quite reasonable speculation, given how ill-treated black people are by police in our society.

 

[meatwad1]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

We need more black leadrs like this, and fewer Jackson's and Sharpton's. Outstanding piece.

I think the tragedy is that a 17 year old is dead. Both sides are wrong in focusing on the race issue.

Your moral equivalence is wrong, and that's the point of the article. One side is trying to make it a race issue, the other side is defending themselves from the accusation. But for the original accusation, the other side would not have to defend on racial grounds.I also think it's unfair to describe Steele as a black leader. He's biracial (half black-half white), and it's that combination that gives him a unique perspective on both sides of the issue.

This garbage is all on the liberals. They 100% made this into a race issue....hacks like Timmyboy are using this to guilt everyone up about our supposed complicity in black profiling and overall racism.It is sickening.

It is cowardly.

By the way....the worm continues to turn.....

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-enhances-zimmerman-911-call-again-and-reporter-now-doubts-racial-slur-used/

Good read, I really think this is something that everyone should read.

 

[meatwad1]

The article is ultimately wrong. Yes, there is certainly exploitation going on. But this story IS at heart a racial one, and attempts to deny it are absurd IMO. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he was white. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that if Zimmerman was black, he'd be behind bars right now. Maybe he'd be able to use the Stand Your Ground defense at at trial, but right now he'd be in jail waiting for that trial.

Blacks are rightfully outraged about this case because in general, the police in our nation do not treat black people well, and there is a double standard. Until everyone, including conservatives, realize this and try to do something to change it, stories like this one will always spark a fire, as they should.

Pure speculation Tim. If a black man had shot a hispanic man with the exact same details how would any of us know what the result would be?

I think that the number of blacks who are arrested every year back up this speculation. I think that it's a quite reasonable speculation, given how ill-treated black people are by police in our society.

So Tim, you are saying that crimes are not being committed in the cases where blacks are arrested? Pretty dumb analysis if you ask me.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Someone explain the shtick to me?

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Someone explain the "> shtick to me?

the forum emoticons when clicked on leave the img tags. <img src=

 

[cstu]

Why are people trying so hard to deny that this whole story centers on race?

Right, we need to have a discussion about why so many black kids are breaking into houses in Sanford and causing neighborhood watch guys to be suspicious of innocent black kids walking home.

 

[jomar]

Excellent article by Waymon Hudson, LGBT rights activist:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/waymon-hudson/trayvon-martin-white-privilege_b_1401107.html

I've really struggled as a writer to talk about the tragic shooting of unarmed Florida teen Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman, who has still not been arrested or even charged. While media discussions swirl about so many other issues, for me it boils down to a central point that, according to 911 calls, Trayvon Martin was viewed as "suspicious" by Zimmerman simply for being black. And that basic issue, the scary look at how race can dangerously shape perceptions with deadly results, is what has struck me to the core.

I had to stop reading here.More speculation without any facts.

I don't think this is speculation at all. Zimmerman thought Martin was suspicious, one of the reasons being that he looked like the perpetrators of prior break-ins in the neighborhood. Namely, he was a young, black male. About 60 pages ago, people were trying to show how finding Martin suspicious was justified for this reason. Zimmerman gave himself away with the 'these #######s always get away' comment. who are 'these #######s'? they are the young, black males who he almost caught previously during a break-in. If Martin was white, he's not suspicious and he's probably not dead right now. so while Z may not be a raging racist, this case does have an aspect of race to it.

 

[Schlzm]

The article is ultimately wrong. Yes, there is certainly exploitation going on. But this story IS at heart a racial one, and attempts to deny it are absurd IMO. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he was white. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that if Zimmerman was black, he'd be behind bars right now. Maybe he'd be able to use the Stand Your Ground defense at at trial, but right now he'd be in jail waiting for that trial.

Blacks are rightfully outraged about this case because in general, the police in our nation do not treat black people well, and there is a double standard. Until everyone, including conservatives, realize this and try to do something to change it, stories like this one will always spark a fire, as they should.

Pure speculation Tim. If a black man had shot a hispanic man with the exact same details how would any of us know what the result would be?

I think that the number of blacks who are arrested every year back up this speculation. I think that it's a quite reasonable speculation, given how ill-treated black people are by police in our society.

And you are wrong in thinking that.http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=datool&surl=/arrests/index.cfm#

Schlzm

 

[Clinton]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

We need more black leadrs like this, and fewer Jackson's and Sharpton's. Outstanding piece.

I think the tragedy is that a 17 year old is dead. Both sides are wrong in focusing on the race issue.

Your moral equivalence is wrong, and that's the point of the article. One side is trying to make it a race issue, the other side is defending themselves from the accusation. But for the original accusation, the other side would not have to defend on racial grounds.I also think it's unfair to describe Steele as a black leader. He's biracial (half black-half white), and it's that combination that gives him a unique perspective on both sides of the issue.

Classic, coming from you.

I always cite my positions with statistics supported by reputable sources like the FBI. You cite your positions with feelings.

 

[GDogg]

The article is ultimately wrong. Yes, there is certainly exploitation going on. But this story IS at heart a racial one, and attempts to deny it are absurd IMO. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he was white. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that if Zimmerman was black, he'd be behind bars right now. Maybe he'd be able to use the Stand Your Ground defense at at trial, but right now he'd be in jail waiting for that trial.

Blacks are rightfully outraged about this case because in general, the police in our nation do not treat black people well, and there is a double standard. Until everyone, including conservatives, realize this and try to do something to change it, stories like this one will always spark a fire, as they should.

Pure speculation Tim. If a black man had shot a hispanic man with the exact same details how would any of us know what the result would be?

I think that the number of blacks who are arrested every year back up this speculation. I think that it's a quite reasonable speculation, given how ill-treated black people are by police in our society.

And you are wrong in thinking that.http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=datool&surl=/arrests/index.cfm#

Schlzm

Why is he wrong in thinking that?

 

[Schlzm]

The article is ultimately wrong. Yes, there is certainly exploitation going on. But this story IS at heart a racial one, and attempts to deny it are absurd IMO. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he was white. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that if Zimmerman was black, he'd be behind bars right now. Maybe he'd be able to use the Stand Your Ground defense at at trial, but right now he'd be in jail waiting for that trial.

Blacks are rightfully outraged about this case because in general, the police in our nation do not treat black people well, and there is a double standard. Until everyone, including conservatives, realize this and try to do something to change it, stories like this one will always spark a fire, as they should.

Pure speculation Tim. If a black man had shot a hispanic man with the exact same details how would any of us know what the result would be?

I think that the number of blacks who are arrested every year back up this speculation. I think that it's a quite reasonable speculation, given how ill-treated black people are by police in our society.

And you are wrong in thinking that.http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=datool&surl=/arrests/index.cfm#

Schlzm

Why is he wrong in thinking that?

He has insinuated (if not stated) that black people are disproportionately singled out for arrest when compared to white people. The numbers prove otherwise.Schlzm

 

[GDogg]

The article is ultimately wrong. Yes, there is certainly exploitation going on. But this story IS at heart a racial one, and attempts to deny it are absurd IMO. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he was white. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that if Zimmerman was black, he'd be behind bars right now. Maybe he'd be able to use the Stand Your Ground defense at at trial, but right now he'd be in jail waiting for that trial.

Blacks are rightfully outraged about this case because in general, the police in our nation do not treat black people well, and there is a double standard. Until everyone, including conservatives, realize this and try to do something to change it, stories like this one will always spark a fire, as they should.

Pure speculation Tim. If a black man had shot a hispanic man with the exact same details how would any of us know what the result would be?

I think that the number of blacks who are arrested every year back up this speculation. I think that it's a quite reasonable speculation, given how ill-treated black people are by police in our society.

And you are wrong in thinking that.http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=datool&surl=/arrests/index.cfm#

Schlzm

Why is he wrong in thinking that?

He has insinuated (if not stated) that black people are disproportionately singled out for arrest when compared to white people. The numbers prove otherwise.Schlzm

Really? The numbers I just looked up say that black people make up 13% of the population but about 30% of arrests. Is that what yours say?

 

[TexanFan02]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

We need more black leadrs like this, and fewer Jackson's and Sharpton's. Outstanding piece.

I think the tragedy is that a 17 year old is dead. Both sides are wrong in focusing on the race issue.

Your moral equivalence is wrong, and that's the point of the article. One side is trying to make it a race issue, the other side is defending themselves from the accusation. But for the original accusation, the other side would not have to defend on racial grounds.I also think it's unfair to describe Steele as a black leader. He's biracial (half black-half white), and it's that combination that gives him a unique perspective on both sides of the issue.

Classic, coming from you.

I always cite my positions with statistics supported by reputable sources like the FBI. You cite your positions with feelings.

It's classic Clinton because you bring race into every discussion you participate in. You are every bit as bad as the media in this case. Besides, there's already a separate thread on race for this incident. Please go there and talk about what a problem you think black people are in today's society.

 

[Clinton]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

We need more black leadrs like this, and fewer Jackson's and Sharpton's. Outstanding piece.

I think the tragedy is that a 17 year old is dead. Both sides are wrong in focusing on the race issue.

Your moral equivalence is wrong, and that's the point of the article. One side is trying to make it a race issue, the other side is defending themselves from the accusation. But for the original accusation, the other side would not have to defend on racial grounds.I also think it's unfair to describe Steele as a black leader. He's biracial (half black-half white), and it's that combination that gives him a unique perspective on both sides of the issue.

Classic, coming from you.

I always cite my positions with statistics supported by reputable sources like the FBI. You cite your positions with feelings.

It's classic Clinton because you bring race into every discussion you participate in. You are every bit as bad as the media in this case. Besides, there's already a separate thread on race for this incident. Please go there and talk about what a problem you think black people are in today's society.

It's obvious, TexasFan, that you're either not intelligent enough or too immature to understand the "But for..." standard.But for the likes of Sharpton and Jackson making the Trayvon Martin matter a racial issue, Shelby Steele and others would not have to interject race in defense.

But for TexasFan and others like him constable suggesting whites are most racist, I wouldn't have to constantly cite statisticts showing otherwise.

I understand that cause-and-effect is a difficult concept for those just starting out, but it's the basis of these arguments that you'll later come to understand.

 

[TexanFan02]

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

And this points to the second tragedy that Trayvon's sad demise highlights. Before the 1960s the black American identity (though no one ever used the word) was based on our common humanity, on the idea that race was always an artificial and exploitive division between people. After the '60s—in a society guilty for its long abuse of us—we took our historical victimization as the central theme of our group identity. We could not have made a worse mistake.

It has given us a generation of ambulance-chasing leaders, and the illusion that our greatest power lies in the manipulation of white guilt. The tragedy surrounding Trayvon's death is not in the possibility that it might have something to do with white racism; the tragedy is in the lustfulness with which so many black leaders, in conjunction with the media, have leapt to exploit his demise for their own power.

We need more black leadrs like this, and fewer Jackson's and Sharpton's. Outstanding piece.

I think the tragedy is that a 17 year old is dead. Both sides are wrong in focusing on the race issue.

Your moral equivalence is wrong, and that's the point of the article. One side is trying to make it a race issue, the other side is defending themselves from the accusation. But for the original accusation, the other side would not have to defend on racial grounds.I also think it's unfair to describe Steele as a black leader. He's biracial (half black-half white), and it's that combination that gives him a unique perspective on both sides of the issue.

Classic, coming from you.

I always cite my positions with statistics supported by reputable sources like the FBI. You cite your positions with feelings.

It's classic Clinton because you bring race into every discussion you participate in. You are every bit as bad as the media in this case. Besides, there's already a separate thread on race for this incident. Please go there and talk about what a problem you think black people are in today's society.

It's obvious, TexasFan, that you're either not intelligent enough or too immature to understand the "But for..." standard.But for the likes of Sharpton and Jackson making the Trayvon Martin matter a racial issue, Shelby Steele and others would not have to interject race in defense.

But for TexasFan and others like him constable suggesting whites are most racist, I wouldn't have to constantly cite statisticts showing otherwise.

I understand that cause-and-effect is a difficult concept for those just starting out, but it's the basis of these arguments that you'll later come to understand.

I've never said this case was about race. You haven't ever talked about anything else. In fact, that's been your only input in the thread. I don't think I'm the one with a problem.